Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[aramaug]

Spoiler: 0.45 Preview

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You know what door she's standing right outside.

Spoiler

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I had a feeling the boxes would come up in 0.45 with how often characters have referenced them in the last few updates, especially telling New Maya about them. Maybe they'll contain something that will help the RAS return to the main timeline?

Spoiler: Question

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Well that's blindingly obvious in retrospect.

Even if we ignore the Noriko thing, the timeline doesn't work. In "Kyoto" Niki says that Akira has been turning down sex for over a year.

Spoiler

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(And that's odd for a second reason, as Niki has implied she was the one who didn't want to have sex when they were younger.)
But Niki and Akira only dated for five years before the accident.

Spoiler

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The accident happened in September or October 2012. With generous rounding maybe they started dating around the start of 2007. Ami was born in August 2005. So unless they were doing "hand stuff" for years before dating, Kyoto has to take place well after Ami was born.

Also, check out Akira's shadow here. That's his adult hair, though maybe it's supposed to be an older teen model that we haven't seen yet.

Spoiler

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A couple other weird things I noticed on rewatch:
Sekai is literally driving past the Windows XP wallpaper

Spoiler

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At the train station, the faceless bystanders aren't the usual Koikatsu silhouettes. Instead they look an awful lot like an army of Kenjis.

Spoiler

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So this could all be a Selebus slip-up, but until he acknowledges it or fixes it in a future update I'm going to assume that it's intentional. Here are the possible explanations I see:

• It's a second pregnancy. I agree this one is unlikely because Sekai would have brought Ami or at least explained why she wasn't there.
• "Kyoto" is fake or from an alternate timeline. I think I lean toward this one because of the other weird stuff.
• Akira's history with the Nakayamas is fake.
• Ami is fake.

Kyoto takes place roughly a year before Ami was born, which would make Akira around 12, and Niki around 10. Nevermind that a 12 and a 10 year old are having 69s before even becoming boyfriend/girlfriend.

Niki was born in March 1991 (she's 29) and Ami was born in August 2005 (she was seven when the accident happened). Niki would have been 13 when Ami was conceived and 14 when she was born.

 

[Pedro4545454]

I don't think anyone has talked about it yet, and if they have, I apologize for not having seen it, but anyway, Akira is currently in the timeline of the first Halloween where many bad things haven't happened yet, and he also has Maya Prime there in that moment in time, will he really want to return to the main timeline if he gets the chance?

Of the 4 people who traveled to the alternative/past timelines he is the only one who could have done well with it if he thinks about it because a lot of bad things didn't happen, so he has a high chance of wanting to stay there.

 

[DeanNoriko]

I think you're attributing someone else's theory to me.

I don't think we're in different timelines. I think they're witnessing a memory of past parties within the reset itself, and they need to navigate to the school rooftop to finish the journey.

Because of this, they might witness things they didn't during the actual party -- for example, Maya might walk in on Akira and Molly, but they're not actually travelling through time. This is all just reset fuckery.

You're right, I misread one of your previous posts, apologies.

I am not yet convinced though that those are merely memories. And I also don't necessarily think they are time traveling per se. Just slipping to different planes.

Spoiler: This is what I think is going on

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[Detective Dc345]

Something I should mention is Sel is purposely naming the "0.45" spoilers "0.44 ." Whether he is treating 0.45 as 0.44 Part 2 is beyond me. But its interesting nonetheless.

Spoiler: SOMANYBEANSLEBUS

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[Jeraviel]

Spoiler: End of update

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Sorry for the word salad that become more incoherent as I went on, my head hurts too much and I can't really make sense of what happened and what is going to happen.

Spoiler: Extra: Good x

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[Moonflare]

Something I should mention is Sel is purposely naming the "0.45" spoilers "0.44 ." Whether he is treating 0.45 as 0.44 Part 2 is beyond me. But its interesting nonetheless.

Spoiler: SOMANYBEANSLEBUS

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at the end of infinity house, this appears:

Spoiler: Infinity house

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Why do I bring this point? Well, after this, which is the 7th event - we have Tsuneyo's event, which reverts back to not having happened. Then a bit later we have another event with RAS talking, which reverts back to not having happened. Then Nao-chan sends Akira over to 22. Then when he comes back everything Sensei-quest happens, including Kyoto, and when he's "out", they're out dispersed through time.

Would it be too absurd for them to still be in the reset? More importantly, why does it become dangerous to save beyond so early in the build? Before everything of note happens? Now, on both my posts about the update I totally ignored this, but given the Selebus evidence maybe it really means something?

Edit: btw this is hidden on replay because what a great artistic vision, Selebus.

 

[barglenarglezous]

What arguments would support my theory though?
The fact that the situations are clearly different. Someone already provided screenshots, comparing one of the Halloween events that happened with this new scenario and people were in different positions, talking about different things. If those were actual memories, it would be very easy for Sel to make this clear and copy the position of all characters and the dialogues 1:1 from the past events, yet it was deliberately chosen to differ slightly.
I also don't think this is typical reset fuckery, as the situations they landed in seemed fairly normal, with seemingly nothing too supernatural or weird going on.

I can't put any real stock in the timeline being wholly different because people were standing in different spots or Ayane told a joke she didn't tell in the original scene. People move around at parties, and there are moments during the party where we don't see what's going on in the main room -- and there are multiple conversations happening at the same time iwthin that room and we're only being shown the relevant ones. We aren't shown every waking moment of Sensei's day, either, so just because we didn't see Ayane rehearsing her routine doesn't mean it didn't happen, and it doesn't even mean Akira wasn't present for it.

Further -- we've gotten no real confirmation that the reset has ended. Which means it is most likely that none of this is real.

 

[Moonflare]

Spoiler: 0.44

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Spoiler: highlights

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I think it was a good update in many ways, the last one was so mid I barely remember it tbh. Now to wait on Himawari's plan coming true.

 

[AkiraRegalia]

Nao-chan: Has him have wholesome consensual pet-play sex with Kaori and Good/True Sekai, atop the roof as the world ends.

If I catch Nao-chan alone it won't be so wholesome consensual anymore

 

[Martogor]

The explanation is that Selebus added a line about Noriko that shouldn't have been there. The scene is about Niki and Akira getting interrupted by her mom. There should be no Noriko mention, but he chose to add it anyway and that was a mistake, because Noriko was a toddler.

Spoiler: Kyoto

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I don't care if Noriko is 2, 3 or 4. It just makes absolutely no sense for a 4 year old to try to constantly sneak in on her sister and her boyfriend. And she's obviously not 4 if Ami hasn't been born. More likely she's at most 2, and how does a 2 year old sneak in anywhere? She would have been with her mom.

My take is that Selebus went from "Noriko always tried to hang around Akira when he visited their home", and yes, that tracks. But do you want to get into even more of a mistake? During the first flashback we get, which is supposed to be about Niki and Akira's first kiss, Noriko is also mentioned as trying to hang around him.

Spoiler: Spotless mind

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Spoiler: Me without you

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In spotless mind, Niki and Akira are even younger, haven't kissed yet, and yet Noriko is "some kid", not a toddler, not an infant, a kid. That would make her 4-5 years older than Ami at least. in fact, if she's already a kid when both of them were kids, when they get to Kyoto, she'd be even older.

So I can see two ways to explain this: Selebus is a big dumb dumb regarding Noriko's age. Or they don't actually exist. Now, calm down, it has been theorized that they really don't exist:

Spoiler: Ad meliora

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At the same way, the fact that Noriko wasn't one of the original characters to LiL (to my knowledge), could have messed things up slightly that Selebus just got his timeline wrong.

I think all the timeline if messed up with the Nakayama sisters

Spoiler: Tour of memories

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Spoiler

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Pdst: Hi, first time commenting here sorry for my bad english

 

[fdsasdf_p]

OK, I've made a timeline draft due to the recent mass confusion regarding Noriko's presence in Kyoto.

Some disclaimers are:
1. This timeline is constructed under the assumption that there is no time fuckery or developer oversight or any other shenanigan. I.e., assuming everything shown is from a linear timeline and Selly did not fuck up at all.
(not that I don't think it's impossible. It's just those two possibilities are the absolute trump cards that overrule literally every argument without needing much reasoning. If there is a way to fit things into one flawless linear path then it'd be my go-to until it can no longer be done)

2. I try using ONLY "what's written in the textbox" as the sole determinant, avoiding judging ages based off character models (unless a vastly different model is used), or using conjectures from the conversation no matter how logical they might be.
As in, ONLY using "what is stated here".

3. Following up, "what is stated here" is regarded as absolutely factual without considering the chances of the characters lying unless it is VERY overt.
(this is to avoid rabbit holes like "your evidences are lying while mine are not!")

4. Other events not within the window between Noriko's birth year and the year of The Accident are omitted, with the exception of Present that serves as a reference point.

For me, the confusion that I got is probably due to the fact that there exist only two character models in the game, and the teen version only represents "time during the past" as a broad stroke and will not reflect on "when exactly". For example, if you are willing to believe this timeline draft, that means Niki was in her 20 during Kyoto and she looked almost identical to the Niki when she was 14.

In addition, if one depends too much on character models to place a scene on the timeline, the following scene will make absolutely no sense whether you agree with this timeline or not.

Spoiler

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Again the purpose is not meant for defending Selly. This is to, if it's at all possible, fit everything together in the simplest way. Let me know if I screw up somewhere.

 

[Moonflare]

I think all the timeline if messed up with the Nakayama sisters

Spoiler: Tour of memories

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Spoiler

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Pdst: Hi, first time commenting here sorry for my bad english

Welcome. And yes, it's an interesting theory.

Mind you, Noriko is responsible, alonside Wires, for recovering Akira's first memory. There is a shot of her being under the influence of the moon while walking through the city alone (although it could just be for artistic sake). And she does mention alternate timelines.

Spoiler: loxosceles reclusa

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The thing about Noriko that might be the biggest evidence though is her relationship with Maya, given that Maya, at this point, has been confirmed as something that shouldn't exist. Maybe natural pink hair was a dead giveaway from the start.

 

[Martogor]

OK, I've made a timeline draft due to the recent mass confusion regarding Noriko's presence in Kyoto.

Some disclaimers are:
1. This timeline is constructed under the assumption that there is no time fuckery or developer oversight or any other shenanigan. I.e., assuming everything shown is from a linear timeline and Selly did not fuck up at all.
(not that I don't think it's impossible. It's just those two possibilities are the absolute trump cards that overrule literally every argument without needing much reasoning. If there is a way to fit things into one flawless linear path then it'd be my go-to until it can no longer be done)

2. I try using ONLY "what's written in the textbox" as the sole determinant, avoiding judging ages based off character models (unless a vastly different model is used), or using conjectures from the conversation no matter how logical they might be.
As in, ONLY using "what is stated here".

3. Following up, "what is stated here" is regarded as absolutely factual without considering the chances of the characters lying unless it is VERY overt.
(this is to avoid rabbit holes like "your evidences are lying while mine are not!")

4. Other events not within the window between Noriko's birth year and the year of The Accident are omitted, with the exception of Present that serves as a reference point.
View attachment 4097196
For me, the confusion that I got is probably due to the fact that there exist only two character models in the game, and the teen version only represents "time during the past" as a broad stroke and will not reflect on "when exactly". For example, if you are willing to believe this timeline draft, that means Niki was in her 20 during Kyoto and she looked almost identical to the Niki when she was 14.

In addition, if one depends too much on character models to place a scene on the timeline, the following scene will make absolutely no sense whether you agree with this timeline or not.

Spoiler

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Again the purpose is not meant for defending Selly. This is to, if it's at all possible, fit everything together in the simplest way. Let me know if I screw up somewhere.

Okey so here i suppouse the date of "Noriko old enough to sit in lap" is the date of the "Spotless mind"(i think is the event name) Edit:It is, i didn't see it in the time line lol

Spoiler

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Just in case, i want to say i don't want to "argue" or discuss negatively(?), just trying to understad all this stuf under the discarded possibility of selebus messing it up.

 

[Moonflare]

OK, I've made a timeline draft due to the recent mass confusion regarding Noriko's presence in Kyoto.

Some disclaimers are:
1. This timeline is constructed under the assumption that there is no time fuckery or developer oversight or any other shenanigan. I.e., assuming everything shown is from a linear timeline and Selly did not fuck up at all.
(not that I don't think it's impossible. It's just those two possibilities are the absolute trump cards that overrule literally every argument without needing much reasoning. If there is a way to fit things into one flawless linear path then it'd be my go-to until it can no longer be done)

2. I try using ONLY "what's written in the textbox" as the sole determinant, avoiding judging ages based off character models (unless a vastly different model is used), or using conjectures from the conversation no matter how logical they might be.
As in, ONLY using "what is stated here".

3. Following up, "what is stated here" is regarded as absolutely factual without considering the chances of the characters lying unless it is VERY overt.
(this is to avoid rabbit holes like "your evidences are lying while mine are not!")

4. Other events not within the window between Noriko's birth year and the year of The Accident are omitted, with the exception of Present that serves as a reference point.
View attachment 4097196
For me, the confusion that I got is probably due to the fact that there exist only two character models in the game, and the teen version only represents "time during the past" as a broad stroke and will not reflect on "when exactly". For example, if you are willing to believe this timeline draft, that means Niki was in her 20 during Kyoto and she looked almost identical to the Niki when she was 14.

In addition, if one depends too much on character models to place a scene on the timeline, the following scene will make absolutely no sense whether you agree with this timeline or not.

Spoiler

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Again the purpose is not meant for defending Selly. This is to, if it's at all possible, fit everything together in the simplest way. Let me know if I screw up somewhere.

I mean, this works, but only if you forego Kyoto. Here are the problems:

1. If Kyoto exists, then Ami must not have been born in its timeline. It's completely absurd that Akira or Sekai would conduct Kyoto the way they do if Ami is 6 years old, and it's Sekai's second pregnancy. Sekai loved Ami more than Akira. Or even that Ami'd think Nozomu was normal when he beat Sekai so much that she'd run away.

2. Also, if Kyoto exists then it can't have been in 2011 because Akira and Niki were not dating in Kyoto. Rather, Kyoto has to take place before they start dating. And the countdown of 5 years dating has to take place after it.

It had already been said, but this is very helpful in getting a clear picture of simply why Kyoto can't have existed in our timeline. By all means it should be in 2005, which makes everything else out of place (Noriko would be -1 during Kyoto, and at least -2 on Spotless Mind). Kyoto is in 2005 (assuming the pregnancy is Ami's, which it has to be - if it is in our timeline), Spotless Mind is even before it.

Edit: I don't understand why Kyoto has to take place within a year of the accident either. Is it because Sekai's supposed second child would have died in the accident?

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Well done, Kitty Hawk, for flipping the entire Lessons in Love F95 forum on its head with your astute observation.

Now none of us know what to believe anymore!

Spoiler: Some additional copium

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[Moonflare]

Well done, Kitty Hawk, for flipping the entire Lessons in Love F95 forum on its head with your astute observation.

Now none of us know what to believe anymore!

Spoiler: Some additional copium

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Kitty Hawk has perfected their game, and now doesn't even need a futanari horse cock to fuck with our minds.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I mean, this works, but only if you forego Kyoto. Here are the problems:

Additionally, Sekai's line about how much Akira's starting look like a man instead of a boy implies that he's still in puberty, not 22 years old.

 

[Bingoogus]

Additionally, Sekai's line about how much Akira's starting look like a man instead of a boy implies that he's still in puberty, not 22 years old.

I'm struggling to buy the 12 years old bit when the sexual abuse started cause he looks a lot younger than that in the scenes we see and she fell in love with him when he was still a baby because every kid has developed object permanence by their first birthday and you then expect her to have just waited 11 years before an opportunity struck? Doesn't sound believable, as i said before, i expected the abuse to start around 5 to 7 ish, though i wouldn't be surprised if she did stuff when he was a baby cause who'd know if she was baby sitting him? A predator like her might back off once he could start talking but then once he was a little older and knew to keep his mouth shut i'd expect her to either wait for the soonest opportunity to start things back up, or concoct a scenario to cause it. 12 just seems crazy to me, sexually attracted to a baby but waits until he's hit puberty? Does sound right...

 

[Moonflare]

I'm struggling to buy the 12 years old bit when the sexual abuse started cause he looks a lot younger than that in the scenes we see and she fell in love with him when he was still a baby because every kid has developed object permanence by their first birthday and you then expect her to have just waited 11 years before an opportunity struck? Doesn't sound believable, as i said before, i expected the abuse to start around 5 to 7 ish, though i wouldn't be surprised if she did stuff when he was a baby cause who'd know if she was baby sitting him? A predator like her might back off once he could start talking but then once he was a little older and knew to keep his mouth shut i'd expect her to either wait for the soonest opportunity to start things back up, or concoct a scenario to cause it. 12 just seems crazy to me, sexually attracted to a baby but waits until he's hit puberty? Does sound right...

Unrelated to this, but it came to mind given the parallel Sekai x Akira, and Akira x Maya - given that Maya is a thing that shouldn't exist, there's now a very real chance that "in the real world" aka world before the cycle of resets, Akira is guilty of 0 crimes. He was abused/groomed by Sekai, she died, he adopted Ami - end of story. Obviously things could have led to crimes with the lack of Maya (possibly literal god conjured to this end), but that's wild guessing.

Also, I'm reminded of what Sekaori/True Sekai said on the Sana event about Sana's refusal of Pegasus. She asks if she's avert to gods in general, or it was just that that one wasn't a good fit. Think about it. A good fit. Well, isn't Maya a perfect fit at the perfect time for Akira just after the accident? Where did she come from? No one knows (including Akira, as Maya never mentioned her parents - well, what parents?). Fabricated background that is misteriously in tone with Akira's own experience. Can take his dick even though it should be a Miku situation. Is able to steer him off the old city. And very importantly, why does Ghost Sekai (another entity) hate her so much?

Not only Maya is likely an entity (the stray) that answered his call (it has been confirmed Akira can pull forgotten gods from the bottom of the well), she's also the answer to him being able to go back to being an innocent victim (through her own erasure from the original timeline).

 

[Vizer007]

Well, maybe Ami was never in the picture. Maybe it's her in Sekai's belly, and maybe she died with her. Maybe this Ami was just "made" by sensei. I mean, I was thinking something along those lines since tutoring thing. Since Ami is the same age as Noriko and Maya, why not tutor them all together? Ami would make new friends, class would be 50% bigger too.
Or it's just 2nd child, but, as said before, Sekai leaving Ami behind is doubtful. And if Ami was in the picture, she would've been mentioned as well. But nope.