Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[anothersilo]

Echoing what aramaug said, there have been a lot of posts about this already. But in a few words: Noriko's age isn't a matter about a toddler being able to sneak in or not, but that the whole thing makes no sense.

In spotless mind she was old enough to be considered a kid, and Kyoto takes place after it. Even if we assume she was just born in spotless mind, it's already bordering on impossibility for her to be in the same class as Ami.

If we take what would be probable, both from her being classified as a kid, as she herself saying she imprinted on Akira when she was 3 - then the events of Spotless Mind would make her 3, she'd be at least 4 during kyoto, which would make her almost 5 years older than Ami.

Noriko would be a 20 year old, which would make her an actual Imani pretending to be a freshman in highschool.

So...if Noriko was 3 or older in spotless mind, that would mean it took place when Akira was 19. Or older. Which is pretty bizarre since they both seemed like they were 12-14ish in that event.

Also, that would make Akira at a minimum 20 in Kyoto (which is also weird because he would be an adult and shouldn't be worrying about what people would think seeing him and Sekai together).

Also also, Nikki specifically said she was surprised Akria remembered the kiss since they "didn't get together until way later". Which means he probably didn't immediately jump to intimate-but-no-sex. Which means, for things to really make sense, Kyoto probably took place several years after Spotless mind.

 

[YOUDIDIT]

It would make a lot of sense for Ami to not be real, or rather her being there is very convenient to the forces that would be able to put a fake in her place. Because, really, she's what keeps Akira from killing himself. She's the first one he sees when the cycle starts, she's the one that "goes insane", she's the one that shows up during all sorts of happy events, she's the avatar of the xeonon, she's the substitute of the flower that Akira sought refuge in, she's her mother's stand-in, she's the oh so perfect little girl... At some point, we should probably start a tierlist on the likelyhood of characters not being real, cause this is getting interesting.

I had the idea early in the game that Ami was dead - she died in the same disaster as Sekai.
During resets we often can see "broken Ami" - who is she?
Her place is sometimes taken by NAO - why is it Ami? How is Ami different from the others?
Then I forgot about this idea.

However, regarding Ami's ability to survive resets - in 2 resets we see Ami dying.

Spoiler: There is Nothing

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And yes, at the end of the last event we see TWO Mayas.
This is going to be fun.

 

[fasoaga]

This is very amusing

Fuck japanese vn in general. They are pretentious as fuck, taking any of them in literature sense is retarted. Also you are replying to a person looking for fight(not gonna use the word troll, these morons do not know the glory of trolling of 2009-2017). I would suggest to simply ignore Princess, this thread is derailed from main topic(and hey, why do i get my comments deleted for off-top, but not him? Oppression) enough already

What the hell happened in 2017 that decreased the quality of trolls?

 

[fasoaga]

I know this question has been asked on this thread a dozen times already, but I haven't seen an answer I actually like yet. Are there any games out there that match this game's quality? It doesn't have to be like LiL plotwise in literally any way. But despite all of his (many) flaws, Selebus clearly puts his soul into this game. There are reveals now that have clearly been planned out for years. And the characters just feel so. so. human. And when I go from LiL to playing literally any other game on this site, they all just feel so bland and one-dimensional in comparison. I just want a game that doesn't feel like an immediate downgrade. Something I can immerse myself in, with characters I'll genuinely care about. Something I'll actually think about after I'm done playing it.

It's going to be a month until the next update, and I really want another game to play while I'm waiting. Anyone have any suggestions?

I can't say anything about plot points that are planned for years, but if you are looking for characters acting like human rather than set/story pieces i can recommend "corporate culture". It doesn't make you theory crafting like lost, game of thrones or lil but i believe you will care about the characters in it.

 

[Antosha]

I had the idea early in the game that Ami was dead - she died in the same disaster as Sekai.
During resets we often can see "broken Ami" - who is she?
Her place is sometimes taken by NAO - why is it Ami? How is Ami different from the others?
Then I forgot about this idea.

However, regarding Ami's ability to survive resets - in 2 resets we see Ami dying.

Spoiler: There is Nothing

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And yes, at the end of the last event we see TWO Mayas.
This is going to be fun.

I mean, it’s occurred to me many times that the entire cast are dead. Look at the unrelenting level of trauma.

I think I’ve mentioned this before, but the whole situation could be reminiscent of the old science fiction/metaphysical flick

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.

 

[Bingoogus]

I mean, it’s occurred to me many times that the entire cast are dead. Look at the unrelenting level of trauma.

I think I’ve mentioned this before, but the whole situation could be reminiscent of the old science fiction/metaphysical flick

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.

I'd forgotten all about that movie until you mentioned it, i remember watching it as a kid when staying at my Oma's, she had an entire room full, wall to wall, with VHS tapes and i probably watched more than half of them. That final scene really stands out though, soon as i googled the name i was immediately like "ooooooh that movie!".

 

[Antosha]

I'd forgotten all about that movie until you mentioned it, i remember watching it as a kid when staying at my Oma's, she had an entire room full, wall to wall, with VHS tapes and i probably watched more than half of them. That final scene really stands out though, soon as i googled the name i was immediately like "ooooooh that movie!".

Yeah. THAT movie.

Your gramma sounds like she was an interesting lady!

 

[chronox42]

General thoughts / notes / questions about installment 44:

Spoiler: Pre-Game

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Spoiler: The Party

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Spoiler: Nao-chan and the Lake

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Spoiler: The Roof

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Spoiler: The Quest

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Take and hypotheses about the culmination:

Spoiler: Kyoto

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Spoiler: The Orb

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A stab at theory-crafting:

Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Sekai

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Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Noriko

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This was a good update, lots to think about, and it's been a while since I've anticipated the next installment so much. It really is amazing that this story has been going strong, fueling so much genuine interest, for so long. It's the only thing I've ever read that has almost felt like another life.

Spoiler: PS: VN recs

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[Bingoogus]

I'm still completely on the fence about the timeline issues being an error. As has been said numerous times, it's possible, but Selly strikes me as the kind of writer that has booklet or large diagram mapping out each and every specific detail about the time before the game starts... i just don't see how is ego could leave room for such critique and ridicule for making that kind of mistake, the revelation of the past is such a critical component of his magnum opus that i can't help but picture him spending many many hours poring over it and ensuring everything lines up as you have to do that before you can then start to twist it around and into itself for the story, you need to know what you're leaving breadcrumbs for before you can properly leave them out. To me, these inconsistencies are simply clues, that once enough have been collected the truth will suddenly jump out like a stereoscopic image. Sekai, Ami, Maya, the Nakayamas, Himawari's suggestions, arguments and claims, they all go together to paint something, but we're not there yet.

 

[Pedro4545454]

i just don't see how is ego could leave room for such critique and ridicule for making that kind of mistake,

This is the main factor for me not to think it's a mistake, Selly is a perfectionist asshole, he wouldn't make a mistake like that knowing that there would be people who would notice and criticize it.

 

[Deleted member 4389531]

Re: Ami and Niki

Spoiler: some ch2 event

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[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: SFW Homie

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[Moonflare]

I'm still completely on the fence about the timeline issues being an error. As has been said numerous times, it's possible, but Selly strikes me as the kind of writer that has booklet or large diagram mapping out each and every specific detail about the time before the game starts... i just don't see how is ego could leave room for such critique and ridicule for making that kind of mistake, the revelation of the past is such a critical component of his magnum opus that i can't help but picture him spending many many hours poring over it and ensuring everything lines up as you have to do that before you can then start to twist it around and into itself for the story, you need to know what you're leaving breadcrumbs for before you can properly leave them out. To me, these inconsistencies are simply clues, that once enough have been collected the truth will suddenly jump out like a stereoscopic image. Sekai, Ami, Maya, the Nakayamas, Himawari's suggestions, arguments and claims, they all go together to paint something, but we're not there yet.

The only thing you should be sure about is Himawari's name. All else is subject to plot twists. Thus Spoke ZaraMoonflare.

Spoiler: Ivan Two Belive

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General thoughts / notes / questions about installment 44:

Spoiler: Pre-Game

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Spoiler: The Party

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Spoiler: Nao-chan and the Lake

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Spoiler: The Roof

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Spoiler: The Quest

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Take and hypotheses about the culmination:

Spoiler: Kyoto

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Spoiler: The Orb

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A stab at theory-crafting:

Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Sekai

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Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Noriko

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This was a good update, lots to think about, and it's been a while since I've anticipated the next installment so much. It really is amazing that this story has been going strong, fueling so much genuine interest, for so long. It's the only thing I've ever read that has almost felt like another life.

Spoiler: PS: VN recs

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Maya's crouching down scene is from the first reset, in which a being dressed as Maya (unlikely to be her) sends Akira into 22 to meet Saki.

We haven't really touched upon the orb, so I think it's appropriate to draw attention to the fact that Akira had to recover 4 different orbs, in order to put them together to form a black orb that changes its name to "GOD", as it keeps trying to consume him by the end. As in 4 different parts of a god, that are drawn together to make the whole god - and it's angry. Pareidolia also sacrificed itself to something that was angry.

This doesn't need to mean that Akira put the god together in this reset, but it could be foreshadowing to what's going to happen eventually. Also, the random god that appears after Pareidolia is gone has already appeared when Akira tries to kill himself, but the four "heroines" show up to convince him otherwise (at the dorms).

Interesting theory on Kyoto, no one had theorized that Kyoto could be two differents parts put together. I don't buy it, but at this point we're welcoming anything.

 

[Deleted member 4389531]

It was mentioned, albeit briefly, that there is echo'd dialogue between Sekai and Niki

Spoiler: Ch3/Ch4

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In general, I would be interested in more exploration into "Echo Theory" as it's been dubbed, which is the presence of echoing dialogue, poses, framing, etc throughout the loops. It is most natural to imagine that the significance of such echoed content is that it came from the same source - but it is somewhat hard to imagine Sensei hallucinating Niki as Sekai, or Sekai as Niki (although he does hallucinate Sekai in this scene). What exactly is the significance of a line being used 1:1? Why do all the girls want to him to be stupid with them? Why is it that everyone says "Tell me you see me" and "Are you okay"? I think one may begin to think that the source could be Sensei, and that he is projecting it all; looping his life. But it is surely more than that, too?

 

[Detective Dc345]

The only thing you should be sure about is Himawari's name. All else is subject to plot twists. Thus Spoke ZaraMoonflare.

Spoiler: Ivan Two Belive

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Maya's crouching down scene is from the first reset, in which a being dressed as Maya (unlikely to be her) sends Akira into 22 to meet Saki.

We haven't really touched upon the orb, so I think it's appropriate to draw attention to the fact that Akira had to recover 4 different orbs, in order to put them together to form a black orb that changes its name to "GOD", as it keeps trying to consume him by the end. As in 4 different parts of a god, that are drawn together to make the whole god - and it's angry. Pareidolia also sacrificed itself to something that was angry.

This doesn't need to mean that Akira put the god together in this reset, but it could be foreshadowing to what's going to happen eventually. Also, the random god that appears after Pareidolia is gone has already appeared when Akira tries to kill himself, but the four "heroines" show up to convince him otherwise (at the dorms).

Interesting theory on Kyoto, no one had theorized that Kyoto could be two differents parts put together. I don't buy it, but at this point we're welcoming anything.

Cant spell Himawari without Ami.

 

[Noob Gamer Loves Everyone]

No one mentioned Yumi. Strange. Back when Chika was losing her shit about Sensei disappereance, Yumi mentioned about a Halloween event that never happened. She either momentarily jumped back to a different timeline after reset or memories are not actually reset and they actually remain even in unaware girls. It was a very random and out of nowhere comment. Another chekhov's gun lying around. Edit: now that there are doubts being cast, I am more interested what is the purpose of that Yumi comment. Was it foreshadowing?
Editx2: also to the fasoaga guestion about trolls. What happened? Nanobots, son. They increase in response to political situation

 

[NicolasL4D]

One thing I don't get is how Pareidolia was just a coping mechanism when he existed before, and wasn't used to blame him for all of his problems.

From what I remember from the original flash of imagery; Akira used to tell the Concerned god about everything horrible in his life (though not the good things) as if he was a therapist. The new Pareidolia doesn't seem anywhere close to the old purpose of the original Pareidolia.

 

[Apollo259]

Somehow I missed this line while playing my first save. I guess my brain was melted from the boring ass boss fights.

Spoiler: ROBLOX OOF SOUND™

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[Moonflare]

One thing I don't get is how Pareidolia was just a coping mechanism when he existed before, and wasn't used to blame him for all of his problems.

From what I remember from the original flash of imagery; Akira used to tell the Concerned god about everything horrible in his life (though not the good things) as if he was a therapist. The new Pareidolia doesn't seem anywhere close to the old purpose of the original Pareidolia.

There are two different aspects to a god per Pareidolia's explanation.

1. The relationship must be of a give and take. That means that the mortal must be getting something out of the relationship, but it doesnt mean that a god can only give one thing, or that the thing can't change.

What he provided Akira with then and now can be different things. Tbh I don't even thing they're that different, but there you go.

2. A god is given power by the number of people that believe in it. Pareidolia was a forgotten god, so when Akira fished him out, that made him his one believer. That means that if Akira ever realised that Pareidolia wasn't real, he'd have no other believer to sustain him on this plane.

Furthermore, that happens because, according to Pareidolia, not a single god is real. A god is not unlike a dream, they have the power to do all sorts of things as long as the dreamer doesn't realise they're dreaming.

 

[DeSkel15]

General thoughts / notes / questions about installment 44:

Spoiler: Pre-Game

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Spoiler: The Party

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Spoiler: Nao-chan and the Lake

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Spoiler: The Roof

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Spoiler: The Quest

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Take and hypotheses about the culmination:

Spoiler: Kyoto

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Spoiler: The Orb

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A stab at theory-crafting:

Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Sekai

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Spoiler: Controversial Suggestion: Noriko

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This was a good update, lots to think about, and it's been a while since I've anticipated the next installment so much. It really is amazing that this story has been going strong, fueling so much genuine interest, for so long. It's the only thing I've ever read that has almost felt like another life.

Spoiler: PS: VN recs

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Felt a little compelled to callback to a few things.

For example, Noriko actually has bad hearing:

Spoiler

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It may not be significant, but a few of the girls notably have at least one bad Sense. Noriko's hearing, Ami's sight, etc. This may come up later.

Noriko was presumably being tutored at 6, since there's not really a reason she and Sensei would be alone otherwise:

Spoiler

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Noriko also claimed Sensei had them (Maya and her) reading '1984' when they were 10:

Spoiler

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And based off Maya and Noriko being tutored seemingly within months after Sensei ghosted Niki which was over 8 years ago:

Spoiler

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And that Noriko implies it's been almost 5 (so over 4) years since the tutoring:

Spoiler

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The Tutoring timeline probably looks more like this:

• Sensei starts tutoring, and starts tutoring Noriko when she's 6 (it's probably around 2010, Sensei is around 21 to 22)
• Accident happens around 2011 to 2012, Sensei ghosts Niki and takes a break from tutoring.
• It's around 2012, Sensei starts tutoring again, and tutors Maya and Noriko who are around 7 to 8, and Sensei is around 22 to 23.
• Around 2015, Sensei has Noriko and Maya read '1984', when they are around 10.
• Around 2016, Sensei abandons Noriko, with Maya. They are probably around 11 to 12. (Ayane probably shows up around this time thanks to Ami, and breaks down in front of Sensei, over her mother)
• In 2020, Sensei and Maya reunites with Noriko. Noriko is 16, Maya 15, Sensei 31, and Niki 29.

Although, Nodoka may have confirmed, last update, a theory of mine that I've had for a while, which would make the Timeline canonically retroactively artificial. (Basically if someone mentions a reference of time, something writes it in. Makes it "real".)

There's also how Long Maya implied something was secretly cutting up the pieces of the puzzle with scissors, in the 'Second Sun' Happy Event. In other words: messing with the established timeline after the fact.
---

Also, Pareidolia seems to call itself Hyphen-Knight:

Spoiler

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It may be the Hyphenated one, or it's knight? Another alias seems to be "The Dark". I somewhat doubt we've seen the last of Pareidolia, although perhaps it'll come back a little different.
---

Btw, for those interested, I just somewhat realized that Nodoka may have pulled a fast one on the supernatural stuff. If so then damn girl, you good.