Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[aramaug]

It could be that the scarf holds greater importance than we’ve learned — it could trigger Nu Maya regaining Maya Prime’s understanding, if not her memories.

Maya does suggest that as a possibility, but I can't really see it happening when the importance of the scarf comes from before the resets, not anything specific to Maya Prime. Plus, the very fact that she suggested it makes it unlikely that it will work, nothing in this story is that easy.

I do imagine the scarf will have some importance (beyond symbolizing that Ayane is Maya's replacement), but it's hard to say what it will be before we find out what happened to New Maya. If Ayane's memory has been altered to think she's always had the scarf, does that mean New Maya's will be altered to forget it? If so, what else has she forgotten?

I guess it's possible that New Maya will recognize the scarf and that talking to Ayane about it will be the impetus for her to remember the alternate timeline, but again that seems like too convenient of an outcome.

I definitely agree and it's very heavyhanded of Selebus to not have Ayane ask the most obvious questions. The way I see it, it serves a couple of functions.

Spoiler: theorizing

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I'm more on your camp than giving Selebus a hand here though. I'm just trying to theorize from the idea that it is serving a reason.

Agreed on Yumi, she got some good character development. Whether she remembers it or not (I'm guessing she does subconsciously), it's still good for the narrative. The HOPE stuff was obviously interesting but could have happened in any timeline. The Ayane/Maya scenes were what I specifically didn't like, it was just a waste to send Ayane to a "Maya Prime" timeline and have so little come of it. Maya leaving before the reset is interesting, but we got so little information about it that it seems impossible to figure out why.

Something interesting that I don't think has gained much notice is that it was again implied that even Sensei being aware of the Resets isn't relatively normal in the Resets.

In Ayane's Chapter 4 'Chamomile' Event, the Alt Maya Prime reveals:

Spoiler

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That in her world (Football Sensei), she is the only one who knows about the Resets. Her Sensei doesn't and it seems like her Ami probably doesn't either (or at least this Maya implies that), and it seems like none of the previous Senseis had figured it out in this world either.

Our Maya Prime actually had also implied that Sensei being aware of Resets was a new thing:

Spoiler

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So, something probably happened before our Sensei showed up that made it possible for Sensei to make it to the roof and become aware of things. (Our Maya Prime didn't seem surprised that our Sensei knew of the Resets so it probably happened before Chapter 1)

Now that you point it out, this is really interesting. I'm pretty sure that Maya Prime implied that the fake Senseis who survived resets did so by making it to the roof, most of them just died on the first attempt. She certainly wasn't surprised when real Sensei made it during the first reset, even though she (supposedly) thought he's a fake. She also told him what was going on and wasn't surprised when he retained those memories past the reset. So it definitely seems like some fake Senseis knew about the resets at least for a brief time. So in "Suffer the Same" maybe she's just saying that it's been a while since there was a successful fake Sensei?

But that doesn't work for the Ayane timeline. The football-loving Sensei has survived four resets, something that literally no fake Senseis have done in the main timeline according to Maya Prime. If he doesn't make it to the roof, how does he survive? And if he does make it, why doesn't he know about the resets?

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

But that doesn't work for the Ayane timeline. The football-loving Sensei has survived four resets, something that literally no fake Senseis have done in the main timeline according to Maya Prime. If he doesn't make it to the roof, how does he survive? And if he does make it, why doesn't he know about the resets?

Maybe he does know. But in this timeline he doesn't have memories of Maya and not even interested in her, so he never interacted with Maya about reset stuff, etc. And who knows, maybe he has another shelter, like, Yasu's church or something totally different.

Spoiler: i am crazy

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[Meskal1ne]

Spoiler: i am crazy

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Please don't. There is nothing more boring on the planet than Mary Sue and her events.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Please don't. There is nothing more boring on the planet than Mary Sue and her events.

Incorrect.
There is nothing more beautiful on the planet than Mary Sue and her events.
Unfortunately, we have to wait 0.48...

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Incorrect.
There is nothing more beautiful on the planet than Mary Sue and her events.
Unfortunately, we have to wait 0.48...

I think your new profile picture is more beautiful

 

[derekthered56]

But that doesn't work for the Ayane timeline. The football-loving Sensei has survived four resets, something that literally no fake Senseis have done in the main timeline according to Maya Prime. If he doesn't make it to the roof, how does he survive? And if he does make it, why doesn't he know about the resets?

Maybe he's just getting soft rebooted. The resets only get rid of memories that make you aware of the resets for everyone else, why not him?

 

[Antosha]

DormWars, either the first or second I think. Probably the first, they have a competition in his house - in which Noriko competes with Ami (?).

Well, Noriko drugs Akira, I don't exactly recall for what purpose, maybe to fall asleep (?). Anyway, iirc it was during the time we all had thoughts about Noriko being a deranged stalker, and that really didn't help her case.

The bizarre things is, you can say that Noriko won even after drugging him. Weird moment, although, granted, Akira will reprimand her either way. It's just... I don't know, maybe I'm sensitive to it, I'd never talk to someone that did that to me again (even if they did it as a joke and were "safe" about it - there's no such thing).

Thanks. I’d forgotten that.

Yeah—I don’t think I’d ever trust that person again, never mind forgive them.

 

[Detective Dc345]

when will Rin send nudes to sensei?

With out knowing the rest of the release schedule maybe Dorm Wars. It's the only update with picture messages.

 

[Fake Rabi ~]

With out knowing the rest of the release schedule maybe Dorm Wars. It's the only update with picture messages.

curse you selly!!!!

 

[crustlord12]

Do any of you think we may have reached a Death of the Author situation already with this game?

Have we/you, constantly crafting theories by trying to guess where Sel is taking the story, possibly created an interpretation we consider to be superior than Sel's original intent? I think it's important to note that while Sel writes with good prose, it's not necessarily given that he's a great author nor story creator. I'm not saying he isn't, but I think it's important to remember he's just one person, who is fallible, and is literally writing a story on a month-to-month basis, where any number of decisions can be made that change the plot trajectory based on his whims.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else thinks we may have reached a point where our interpretation of the story and its symbolism exceeds that which Sel wrote it with.

 

[Nadekai]

... I want some Ionizer, Yama and Utachi content ...
... When do we get it ...

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Do any of you think we may have reached a Death of the Author situation already with this game?

Have we/you, constantly crafting theories by trying to guess where Sel is taking the story, possibly created an interpretation we consider to be superior than Sel's original intent? I think it's important to note that while Sel writes with good prose, it's not necessarily given that he's a great author nor story creator. I'm not saying he isn't, but I think it's important to remember he's just one person, who is fallible, and is literally writing a story on a month-to-month basis, where any number of decisions can be made that change the plot trajectory based on his whims.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else thinks we may have reached a point where our interpretation of the story and its symbolism exceeds that which Sel wrote it with.

Well, I still believe he is creating the lore, looking back at theories here or lilcord. Then he is either approving or disapproving these theories. Just like Scott Cawthon did with FNAF series, which is literally build on fan theories. Basically the creator putting just a basis for fans, letting them overthink the story

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

I think no matter what happens to Selly, the game is in good hands.
The facilities for LiL to be continued are there

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Do any of you think we may have reached a Death of the Author situation already with this game?

Have we/you, constantly crafting theories by trying to guess where Sel is taking the story, possibly created an interpretation we consider to be superior than Sel's original intent? I think it's important to note that while Sel writes with good prose, it's not necessarily given that he's a great author nor story creator. I'm not saying he isn't, but I think it's important to remember he's just one person, who is fallible, and is literally writing a story on a month-to-month basis, where any number of decisions can be made that change the plot trajectory based on his whims.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else thinks we may have reached a point where our interpretation of the story and its symbolism exceeds that which Sel wrote it with.

Meh, honestly, the theories here are really cool and reading them is definitely one of my favorite parts of this thread, but even so, I'm interested in Selebus's story and his vision most of all. He has all of us coming back each month for a reason, even now.

Has he made questionable decisions in his writing before? Sure. Have certain theories on here been superior to what actually occurred in the game itself? Also yes.

But this game is only as complicated as one makes it.

Spoiler

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Let Sel cook. Who knows what awaits us in future updates that we just have yet to understand? As it currently stands, we have an incomplete puzzle. Until it's completed, let's see where the story takes us.

.......

On another note, but one that sort of relates to this, I've seen a lot of backlash towards the Ami and Maya rape scene in the latest update. People are even calling it NTR, which... I mean is it, though? New Maya certainly comes to enjoy it towards the end, but as someone else pointed out, I believe it was more of a defense mechanism, given her situation.

What could Maya have done there? Continue talking back to Ami and piss her off to the point that she gets killed? Stay silent when that seems very much impossible?

When Fight and Flight are no longer options, what do you do? What's left? You give your aggressor what they want and hope you live to see another day. Nothing else makes sense.

And hell, we now know that Maya Prime got it on with Ami in past realities too. Does that mean Maya cucked us off-screen as well?

Maybe I'm just not seeing it... I agree it was an uncomfortable scene, but I dunno if I'd call it NTR.

If anything, the porn you can watch on your computer during the "Times New Roman" reset puzzle was much worse, since it involved random men. That's some AU cucking if I've ever seen it.

 

[shmurfer]

Maybe I'm just not seeing it... I agree it was an uncomfortable scene, but I dunno if I'd call it NTR.

As a NTR hater it's not NTR. NTR is when Yumi tells you that she feels a connection between you and her, but she's not ready to have sex with you and instead finds the Takoyaki stand owner to have sex with instead. Psycho Ami is just a rapist.

 

[Bingoogus]

Do any of you think we may have reached a Death of the Author situation already with this game?

Have we/you, constantly crafting theories by trying to guess where Sel is taking the story, possibly created an interpretation we consider to be superior than Sel's original intent? I think it's important to note that while Sel writes with good prose, it's not necessarily given that he's a great author nor story creator. I'm not saying he isn't, but I think it's important to remember he's just one person, who is fallible, and is literally writing a story on a month-to-month basis, where any number of decisions can be made that change the plot trajectory based on his whims.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else thinks we may have reached a point where our interpretation of the story and its symbolism exceeds that which Sel wrote it with.

I don't really think you can have a death of the author situation whilst the work is still being written... maybe if he dropped it or died or started screwing it all up. Even in those situations, i personally am not the kind to lean that way, anyone can write fanfiction, only the author can write their story to their truest intent and that's the version i prefer in almost all cases. It's exceptionally rare for me to think my personal headcanon is superior to the original story.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I don't really think you can have a death of the author situation whilst the work is still being written... maybe if he dropped it or died or started screwing it all up. Even in those situations, i personally am not the kind to lean that way, anyone can write fanfiction, only the author can write their story to their truest intent and that's the version i prefer in almost all cases. It's exceptionally rare for me to think my personal headcanon is superior to the original story.

The Harry Potter fanfic community started to Death of the Author J K Rowling after Half-Blood Prince came out and they realized they were all better writers than her.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

just saying that Dragon Ball is still going on after Akira Toriyama (the goat) died, and Toyotaro is doing a good job

The Harry Potter fanfic community started to Death of the Author J K Rowling after Half-Blood Prince came out and they realized they were all better writers than her.

I wouldn't say that J.K. Rowling is a brilliant writer, but there's a reason why she is so successful. Writing a story isn't all about skill but passion, and passion alone can literally be the deciding factor.

Where is Harry Potter's genius writing? It's just magic dudes in a secret society doing magic
Where is Dragon Ball's genius writing? the powerscaling is a mess and it's not like the story is very complex, just dudes screaming at each other.
Where is My Hero Academia's genius writing? There isn't, the whole series itself is carried by The power of friendship. The ending is also dogshit

I am just trying to convey here that creating stuff that others enjoy isn't all about having a high "technical skill" or anything like that, but rather how much fun you're having and want others to have. This is a big reason why a lot of older videogames are considered better despite the technical limitations from the past. Videogames were made to be fun, but now they're made to make money, and a person can feel these things.

 

[NULLWIZARD]

Guys my understanding is that Death of the Author (DoA) is about ignoring the author's "original intent" when analyzing a work's themes:

• DoA is not about going off and writing your own fanfic/ending/continuation because that has nothing to do with the literary/thematic analysis of a work
• DoA is totally orthogonal to the lore of the world because that lore is for the most part just a matter of facts, e.g. there's not much room for subjective interpretation on the matter of "is Nozomu Akira's brother?" And although we can spend lots of time arguing about whether Yuu is Akira's dad or grandpa, it is mostly inconsequential from the perspective of analysis
• DoA is totally orthogonal to the completion state of the work because that has no bearing on the themes present within the work as it is available for consumption right now, today
  • You could say that the themes may not be explored as fully as the author had intended. But DoA is about disregarding the author's intent so whether a given theme has been fleshed out and conveyed as the author had intended is irrelevant

 

[DeanNoriko]

Do any of you think we may have reached a Death of the Author situation already with this game?

Have we/you, constantly crafting theories by trying to guess where Sel is taking the story, possibly created an interpretation we consider to be superior than Sel's original intent? I think it's important to note that while Sel writes with good prose, it's not necessarily given that he's a great author nor story creator. I'm not saying he isn't, but I think it's important to remember he's just one person, who is fallible, and is literally writing a story on a month-to-month basis, where any number of decisions can be made that change the plot trajectory based on his whims.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else thinks we may have reached a point where our interpretation of the story and its symbolism exceeds that which Sel wrote it with.

That's a very interesting point that you are making and something I have been thinking about a few times.

First off, I very highly doubt that Sel is really taking into consideration fan theories, neither on Lilcord nor (and especially so) here. Anyone reading his responses in the Ask-Selebus channel will notice that he has near zero concern about what kind of ideas and suggestions the community has in terms of the overall story. He is very confident in his abilities and will follow his own guidance, rather than find inspiration from his "subjects/patrons".

Secondly, he repeatedly said that the general plot is already set in stone, and only details are up to discussion. For example, the general ending is decided as well as the overall theme for the dark path, but the individual purity paths he has not thought out yet for every character, which is understandable to be honest.
I also have the feeling, especially now that I am replaying this game for the first time, that he did have a vision from the very start, certain elements he had in mind that would come into action much later on, being hinted at subtly throughout the game. So I do have faith in him that he is able to connect all of the dots and have answers for most, if not all, of the open questions within the story.

That being said, there is always the danger that some of those decisions may backfire or turn out not as well thought through as he initially anticipated. He is a human after all, he is not immune to mistakes. For example, I am still not 100% sure whether this whole Noriko age thing from Kyoto is intended and another mystery in itself or just a brain fart from his side (this has been discussed already, so I'm not intending to re-heat this point, just giving it as an example).

Many giga brain chads on here have given very plausible and interesting theories that might realistically be even better than what Sel initially thought of, sure. A hivemind of creative and intelligent people can probably come up with a few very good ideas that might surpass the original vision. However, I trust the author to follow his vision, to fit everything as they intended it to. And even if it does not turn out to be perfect, Sel has not given me enough reason to doubt him to deliver a satisfying wrap-up of the general story points.

It's probably just good advice in general to not get expectation unreasonably high, you can't satisfy everyone and there will be certain aspects that some might find more problematic than others (e.g. that whole NTR thing). But I personally think that his track record so far shows that he is a capable enough writer to not disappoint us too much in the end. Or so I hope.