Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[daagagsdgd]

To add to the many regulars that have already answered, LiL is not in fact an ero game. I mean, it is by definition, but not by focus.

LiL is a story about pedophilia and grooming, where supernatural aspects are introduced as a metaphor for trauma, compulsion and mental diseases. Following that, the harem (Akira Arakawa's many companions) also deals with many forms of trauma and abuse. All of these expand into what we can call lessons in love, not in a porn way, as one might expect, but in a form of heavy criticism and portrayal of the complications of many traumas intertwining in a sort of repeating purgatory that doubles as an extreme therapy session without a therapist.

That is a good description of the game imo: "throw a bunch of traumatized people into an neverending therapy session, that will reset them if they go to far/fail, until they can work through it all without a therapist's help, but only by having eachother".

(Although the supernatural angle should also be accounted for, the following turned into kind of a rant, so, if you want to skip it, the tldr is that the supernatural subplot to LiL has its place, but it's likely to be derivative/needlessly inflated).

Spoiler: about the supernatural angle

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I would also say that LiL is not a traditional eroge while sexual aspect is a part that can't be removed since it's tethered unyieldingly with center of all things—Trauma and regret. I would use a simpler description for the game :"It's an endless and futile hope and dream of a group of people doomed from start for searching for happiness".

Supernatural subplot imo is clearly self-ironic, which servers both as an artifical gimmick (arbitary, sardonic and complicated revealing of hidden plot) and artistical manifestion of "truer" feelings. Therefore to me Happy Events in early days is an unique experience that couldn't be replicated by recent ones. God I miss the feeling I got when I read The Room with Clocks for the first time.

I think the most ambitious (and pretentious) attraction of LiL is that it tries to include everything, so much that text starts to form intertextuality with former itself — Everything is connected. With so many divergence, the story still tries to uphold a pure simultaneity — or, what amounts to the same thing, in an environment outside time altogether (cycling of time) — revealing the true meaning of “that which was, and which is and which shall be”.

I must stop ranting or everyone else would say I'm reading too much into (at the end of the day) a eroge, often forgot I started playing LiL only as another H-game, and in no time it turned to something I can't put my finger on

 

[{Jeizaguretokanteishi01}]

I'm not sure I follow your mental loop here. If anything, LiL is the One Piece of adult VNs. Just if Luffy's elastic extremities were only focused on his groin region. And Nami were a wizard, I guess.

Anyways, my point is that LiL is a very long and complex VN where the main allure is not supposed to be the lewd scenes, it's the story.

I get your point though. When I started playing this shit, for the longest time I felt irritated whenever that static jump scare occurred and something fucked up was happening. Like it was pulling me away from focusing on grinding points to finally see someone's boobies.
Only over time, you actually look forward to those moments, those plot developments and new mysteries, more so than the (comparatively lackluster, though not incompetent) sex scenes. I'm pretty sure that shift happened for most of the people on here, unless they came across this with prior knowledge I suppose. Everyone else would probably just not appreciate the writing in the first place.

So as I mentioned once in an earlier post, what I would recommend anyone who has just started checking out this game:
Don't focus too much on the "ero" side of the game, embrace the plot and actually read through the dialogue, there is literally nobody who would argue that it isn't well written, it just might appear to be a lot. But it's worth it, the characters will grow on you and you will cheer for them just being happy and having wholesome moments, rather than seeing them getting groped and molested.
Just as a fair warning, it might ruin the enjoyment of other works on here, as their plots and the writing will seem weak in comparison.

i have not actually played very far into the game but i will say the writing is very well done and i agree with that as for the context of the comment about ova's there where a lot of ova's in the late 80s to late 90s that used sex as a plot development point or would use very edgy plot movement points to push a great story forward that is what i meant with my comment

To add to the many regulars that have already answered, LiL is not in fact an ero game. I mean, it is by definition, but not by focus.

LiL is a story about pedophilia and grooming, where supernatural aspects are introduced as a metaphor for trauma, compulsion and mental diseases. Following that, the harem (Akira Arakawa's many companions) also deals with many forms of trauma and abuse. All of these expand into what we can call lessons in love, not in a porn way, as one might expect, but in a form of heavy criticism and portrayal of the complications of many traumas intertwining in a sort of repeating purgatory that doubles as an extreme therapy session without a therapist.

That is a good description of the game imo: "throw a bunch of traumatized people into an neverending therapy session, that will reset them if they go to far/fail, until they can work through it all without a therapist's help, but only by having eachother".

(Although the supernatural angle should also be accounted for, the following turned into kind of a rant, so, if you want to skip it, the tldr is that the supernatural subplot to LiL has its place, but it's likely to be derivative/needlessly inflated).

Spoiler: about the supernatural angle

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to your comments on the story and plot i think you make some good points as far as the story goes and the point of said story i mention the ero game aspect of this game mainly because of the site its on and the fact as it being in the game in the first place i really wish the dev would make a version of this game with the ero scenes put in as suggested as happening and i know that would defeat the purpose of the game in the first place and the plot of it but i think it would be a more enjoyable experience well at least for me i also think your comparison to ghost in the shell and psycho-pass and the others are good i think a better comparison would be paprika and or perfect blue as they capture the reality breaking aspect of phycological horror better in my opinion i also would like to say the idea of the story and what it is about is a interesting one that i think should be explored in some way but a game like this marketed as a phycological thriller/horror game first and a ero game second may not be the best way to explore the story and topic there of not to say the game is bad or that i dont think people should like it but what im saying is it is well done but that it may not need to be a ero game at all in the first place

 

[Antosha]

What the heck is TFS?

The Fiery Scion.

To add to the many regulars that have already answered, LiL is not in fact an ero game. I mean, it is by definition, but not by focus.

LiL is a story about pedophilia and grooming, where supernatural aspects are introduced as a metaphor for trauma, compulsion and mental diseases. Following that, the harem (Akira Arakawa's many companions) also deals with many forms of trauma and abuse. All of these expand into what we can call lessons in love, not in a porn way, as one might expect, but in a form of heavy criticism and portrayal of the complications of many traumas intertwining in a sort of repeating purgatory that doubles as an extreme therapy session without a therapist.

That is a good description of the game imo: "throw a bunch of traumatized people into an neverending therapy session, that will reset them if they go to far/fail, until they can work through it all without a therapist's help, but only by having eachother".

(Although the supernatural angle should also be accounted for, the following turned into kind of a rant, so, if you want to skip it, the tldr is that the supernatural subplot to LiL has its place, but it's likely to be derivative/needlessly inflated).

Spoiler: about the supernatural angle

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I keep looping back to the theory that the gods and such are all just projections of Akira's fucked-up unconscious. Which would explain some of the oddball pop culture references. :shrug:

 

[Kod2222]

hello guys new here
does anyone have the android one even its not latest ver i can't seem to find it

 

[Xiondingens]

Now, moving on to Otoha -- her parents are hyper-controlling. She's afraid to be herself around them. They've given her no room to breathe and grow. From experience -- this does a lot of long-term damage. A lot of people wind up in therapy as adults because their parents were like this. So it is a form of trauma, but it's not really conveyed well in-game.

Are you sure about that? I mean when i just look at what the game does show us -and that is that she is allowed to stay in the dorms- paint a different picture. And just remember where she did spent -xmas, new year? I dont remember- it wasnt with her parents, it was with niki. And also that one i might missremember, but didnt she admit to Rin in their conversation about their relationship that she did exaggerate her parents? I mean that also would fit to her character trait of wanting to be special and in the center of attention. She is a attention whore, so telling people stuff that would let them pitty her would fit right in.

And if you dont believe me, just think of the fallout when akira did fuck with her while she was having a phone call with her parents. Oh, you dont remember the fallout? I would guess because there wasnt one. So i disaggre with this evaluation of Otoha.

 

[Dc345]

Spoiler: We are back (0.46 Preview)

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[shmurfer]

Spoiler: We are back (0.46 Preview)

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Key theorists drinking well tonight.

 

[Moonflare]

Spoiler: We are back (0.46 Preview)

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tbh, not what I'd wish for in the next update. Imani's backstory was disappointing to me. But I guess we'll see.

(where is my catgirl from Nihon, Selebus?!)

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

tbh, not what I'd wish for in the next update. Imani's backstory was disappointing to me. But I guess we'll see.

(where is my catgirl from Nihon, Selebus?!)

He didn't notice any catgirl in Japan. That's why he created his own catgirls (remember Kaori, Nao-chan, Ayane and Yumi outfits in the reset)

 

[Xiondingens]

tbh, not what I'd wish for in the next update. Imani's backstory was disappointing to me. But I guess we'll see.

I mean, i think the backstory was okay, but it has been told now, so i dont think this is what we will get. Or i would be very much surprised if it would be.

 

[Moonflare]

I mean, i think the backstory was okay, but it has been told now, so i dont think this is what we will get. Or i would be very much surprised if it would be.

I mean it didn't let much room for other stuff, she said she was the one sister of a family of brothers, one of which let his friends gang-rape her in front of him. Given her age during LiL, and the amount of time she says she's gone without sex, the timeline doesn't really have much wiggle room.

This flashback should definitely be from before the event, both because of the timeline and because she doesn't seem scarred (both physically and mentally), but given what's coming I'm really not looking forward to it. I already have that feeling on my stomach of watching a trainwreck about to happen. Or, to put into perspective, if somehow we were about to see scenes of Io being born to a "loving family" (when we know what that will evolve into)...

 

[Xiondingens]

Given her age during LiL, and the amount of time she says she's gone without sex, the timeline doesn't really have much wiggle room.

Wait, do i missremember what happened? Was there sex involved? I somehow just remember she had the hots for this guy, got bond to a bed, stripped nacked they wrote all kinds of racist slurs on her body, then they got scared and tried to get them of with boiling water and that was it.

 

[shmurfer]

Dang it, I tried automating parts of the game with Autohotkey but there's too many inconsistent functions. It would keep breaking at random parts even after adding second long delays between every step.

Now I gotta do this in a semi automatic way. I'm probably going to have a much better time automating sensei quest though.

 

[Moonflare]

Wait, do i missremember what happened? Was there sex involved? I somehow just remember she had the hots for this guy, got bond to a bed, stripped nacked they wrote all kinds of racist slurs on her body, then they got scared and tried to get them of with boiling water and that was it.

Well, I feel sorry both for myself for having to reread that thing and for you since I'll tell you how your interpretation of things seem to have spared you.

Imani's mother cheated on her father, making her the one child out of all the siblings that wasn't his biological child. He still stuck by her though, and raised her as his daughter. Her siblings and neighbors resented her mother though, and so bullied both mother and child as whores.

Imani never had friends because it was either people bullying her, or people that stood by her for a while before moving away because of the bullies. By the time it happened, she had already messed around with boys (implied not to have been a virgin by then), so this rich kid seduced her during a festival and took her to his place. He offered to tie her up and she accepted because she thought it was a kink, so then he invites other 6 dudes to the bedroom, one of them being her brother.

They cut her clothes, write all sort of repulsive shit, gang-rape her (not mentioned if her brother took part - also not said they raped her but it is heavily implied), then they couldn't get the writing off, so one of them boiled water and threw it at her, several pots at that, over a period of time. Eventually her brother chickened out and ran away to call for help. She spent 3 weeks at a hospital and after that no one bullied her again.

Spoiler: Antoa Suo

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At least Wakana was there cause, by Eresh, I really didn't care for this backstory, especially cause she doesn't mention what happened to them at all.

Spoiler: I will carry you, my light

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And it all ends with Akira pity eating her out.

Edit: I guess we can at least all be thankful this happened before Selebus went into his NTR phase, otherwise we might have had a flashback with the dudes same as with Tsubasa being gangbanged.

 

[Xiondingens]

Tbh, there is a lot implied, nothing of that must include them actually have sex with her. Personally i did interpret it as them doing a lot of bad stuff to her, a gangrape wasnt part of it in my mind now that i read it again.

She spent 3 weeks at a hospital and after that no one bullied her again.

But this here might be the most unrealistic part of the whole story.

 

[Moonflare]

Tbh, there is a lot implied, nothing of that must include them actually have sex with her. Personally i did interpret it as them doing a lot of bad stuff to her, a gangrape wasnt part of it in my mind now that i read it again.
But this here might be the most unrealistic part of the whole story.

Selebus was sparing you, there isn't much else that could go between writing on a bound naked woman, and dousing her body with boiling water. "I'll spare you the middle", what else could they have done that she feels she should spare Akira with? Pretty clear that they raped her imo. If they hadn't, she would have just continued to the boiling water, there'd be nothing to skip.

I agree with it being unrealistic, it was an L for Selebus there. While it is understandable that she didn't want to keep talking about it, it is a logical step for Akira to ask about the fate of the criminals. Why setup the story by telling us that the dude was the son of the mayor (and thus would likely be able to bend the law)? Why include the whole brother angle (if not to mention what it did to her family dynamic after it)? I don't know, it just doesn't sit right with me. The whole thing came out of nowhere, introduced all of these characters and dynamics, and then it just gets shoved away in order to let Imani get eaten.

I suppose it's fine? I mean, I get why Akira moved away from the conversation and instead focused on dealing with the present trauma instead. But I'm not Akira, if I was in his position I might have done the same thing. But for someone reading the story, I'd like to have a conclusion to what was presented to me, even more so when it's that dramatic.

 

[Xiondingens]

"I'll spare you the middle", what else could they have done that she feels she should spare Akira with?

A lot, if you cant think of it then i envy you and leave it at that.

I agree with it being unrealistic, it was an L for Selebus there.

You know, i dont even think it was an L for Selebus. I see it here more as her been a bit of a unreliable narrator. Like you said, it is easy to believe she wouldnt want to keep talking about it after the big bomb was dropped.

But for someone reading the story, I'd like to have a conclusion to what was presented to me, even more so when it's that dramatic.

Hm, so wouldnt that mean you would like Sel to pick up the story again?

 

[Moonflare]

A lot, if you cant think of it then i envy you and leave it at that.

You know, i dont even think it was an L for Selebus. I see it here more as her been a bit of a unreliable narrator. Like you said, it is easy to believe she wouldnt want to keep talking about it after the big bomb was dropped.
Hm, so wouldnt that mean you would like Sel to pick up the story again?

I'd rather you shared with the class, because as I recall the general idea is that she was raped. If you have a better guess, please go ahead.

And regarding wanting Selebus to pick it up, not really. He already spent his time with it once, I don't read LiL because of Imani. Events for each update are limited, I'd much rather he focused on other stuff, especially after a reset.

 

[aramaug]

Most agreed upon theory for a while, and especially during the last few updates, is that it was Himawari.

Overall tone, being from the future, having to put Akira through pain for a greater purpose, wanting to create a better world, guiding him, having to bend the rules to get her way when she can (rather than just being able to do stuff) - it's not 100% yet, but it is the most agreeable one.

If not Himawari, then one of the Narrators, either Maya or Ami (mind you, not our Maya or Ami, but their narrator counterparts - which have not been confirmed yet, although Narrator Ami is almost confirmed by now).

Based on what we learned in the last update, I don't think it's possible for Himawari to be the game's first narrator.

As you pointed out before, we know that Himawari is the narrator of "What We'll See When We Get There" because she refers to herself as a flower that follows the sun, i.e. a sunflower.

Spoiler

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She tells us stuff about her personal life.

Spoiler

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She's actively growing, she lives in another world with her mom but her dad is gone, and she commutes to work at what I can only assume is the time travel factory. The most important part here is that outside of her appearance in Kumon-mi she's living the life of a normal teenage girl; she's not caught in a time loop, she's not an unaging supernatural entity, etc.

That's in contrast to what the narrator of "Every Day I Grow Some More" tells us about themselves:

Spoiler

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The narrator has been trapped in the dark and very lonely for an indeterminate but probably extremely long period of time and has only been able to return to the light due to being assigned as Sensei's narrator. I don't see how this can be the same character as a fifteen-year-old girl growing up with her mother in another world.

 

[Moonflare]

Based on what we learned in the last update, I don't think it's possible for Himawari to be the game's first narrator.

As you pointed out before, we know that Himawari is the narrator of "What We'll See When We Get There" because she refers to herself as a flower that follows the sun, i.e. a sunflower.

Spoiler

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She tells us stuff about her personal life.

Spoiler

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She's actively growing, she lives in another world with her mom but her dad is gone, and she commutes to work at what I can only assume is the time travel factory. The most important part here is that outside of her appearance in Kumon-mi she's living the life of a normal teenage girl; she's not caught in a time loop, she's not an unaging supernatural entity, etc.

That's in contrast to what the narrator of "Every Day I Grow Some More" tells us about themselves:

Spoiler

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The narrator has been trapped in the dark and very lonely for an indeterminate but probably extremely long period of time and has only been able to return to the light due to being assigned as Sensei's narrator. I don't see how this can be the same character as a fifteen-year-old girl growing up with her mother in another world.

Do you think it's more likely that the first narrator is either Pareidolia or someone at the bottom of the well than that it's the Himawari that's within the cycles? Because there would be a Himawari outside of the cycles, and one that is at the waiting room (she shows up in the recent update, and it's where she's at in a flash during Ad Meliora). That would fit with the drain, and being unable to leave.

There is also the narrator from "Where the trees live", since "they" are the ones that send nao-chan, and they say they're speaking to him as people that are living in the same timeline as him, not from the future. It's either we have two Himawaris that narrate (one from the future and one from within the cycles), or the first narrator is narrating from the abyss? Which would make them either Pareidolia, Sekai or some version of Maya.