Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

Are you seriously implying that a sexual assault helped Yumi to grew up? Nah, hell no. It totally changed her dynamics with everyone, yes. But I wouldn't say it is a good thing after all.

I think the big issue is the timing of it. Had "Matador" happened right in the middle of Yumi's bullying, like after she tries to take Futaba's towel in the bathroom, and Ayane steps in, I think we'd all have a different opinion of the event. Maybe not to the extent of praising Nodoka, but we'd likely be more neutral.

The issue is that by the time it happens, Yumi has been assaulted by Akira, started to grow, opened up, regretted her actions, apologised to Futaba, was forgiven by Futaba (who said she didn't want any revenge), had genuinely stopped any and all bullying, had slapped and been slapped by her mom, and was becoming a better person overall. So to come in with such a drastic and violent (borrowed and uncalled for - by the victim) revenge is simply malevolent, especially to our eyes.

Furthermore, we have to watch Akira failing to protect her when he was really trying all this time to make it up to her. And then to watch Yumi being exposed, not only sexually, but in regards to her feelings for Akira, which is also extremely tragic and complex (desiring her molester).

Spoiler: beachmas

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[SlidingSubject]

Honestly, most of us don't care. She's... boring? at least for me.

Playing Devil's Advocate, she's boring because she's a basic cheater and predator. Like, it's played straight, she has other motivations, and her decisions do generate some impulse for stuff later on, but there's no twist here. It was shown in the My husband is alive... event, and later in a beach-y event. She'll jump at anything that fuels either of her addictions, though Sensei is her go-to choice for the first one.

Spoiler: further explanation

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Oh god, for some reason your Fate comment made me think of Sword Art Online and now I can't not see Sensei as Kirito and Nao-chan as Yui. Remembering those renders of Sensei (with Noodles as his Persona) and the girls against HOPE in the roof doesn't help either.

If this post was interesting and you werent bothered by having to flick the mousewheel a few times to skip it, SLAM that like button down below and I will consider writing a followup with five more examples. Although I hyperfocused on a few examples, as mentioned almost every scene received a magnificent glowup and could spawn pages of analysis on their own, so I am not lacking for content here.

I know this wouldn't be correct since, unlike a certain web serial's troubled healer who was almost named Annie, this change happened way before the final product was even brought to light, but with the "unpolished" comparison you're making, instead of calling it LiL 0 and Neo LiL or Modern LiL, better call them HS and LiL.

Before Lessons in Love Got its name it was originally called Hateful Summer and its banner features pre-lil Yumi's design. That makes Haruka and Yumi to be the only one s to go through major redesigns. You can also include Sana in that category if you like , because she was 6'0 tall in the original Chapter 1.

Spoiler: Hateful Summer

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[Deleted member 4389531]

I know this wouldn't be correct since, unlike a certain web serial's troubled healer who was almost named Annie, this change happened way before the final product was even brought to light, but with the "unpolished" comparison you're making, instead of calling it LiL 0 and Neo LiL or Modern LiL, better call them HS and LiL.

Oh yeah, that would have been clever.

 

[VoidExile]

I'm surprised you didn't put Nodoka in the «Demon spawn» category. Is that mean you still have faith for her?

If yes, you're not prepared for what will follow. Oh god, you're not prepared...

Given what I've been told just now, it's just a question of time. I'm not keeping my hopes up. And the reason I didn't put her lower down is because Kirin wasn't put all the way down when she did something bad and because Nodoka went after Yumi(who is seen as a bad person) instead of Ayane(who is a bad person) and what Yumi did to Futaba was worse than what Ayane did to Kirin. So the difference is quite significant.

I often feel that Sel hates his players. Don't even get me started on the shitty Maya memories we have.

Wonder if that happened because of what happened here some years ago. Perhaps his been harassed from all kind of sources for a while and went edgelordmode or something.

Are you... What... erm...

I have heard a bit of that today yes... Targeting Yumi first leads me into a false sense of security or something thinking that Nodoka just wants to punish the bullies, but I somehow doubt that's all she will do.

Are you seriously implying that a sexual assault helped Yumi to grew up? Nah, hell no. It totally changed her dynamics with everyone, yes. But I wouldn't say it is a good thing after all.

I'm probably implying that trauma and negative experiences in general is helping Yumi grow up. I've personally not been through many if any noteworthy traumatic experiences growing up. But I guess the ones I've been through haven't exactly pushed me in the right direction... I don't know. Don't want to talk about this point any more.

And both scenes are shit. Like, I mean, Touka scene was okay, hot even, but I won't say it is good one. And Yumi's scene is a fucking assault

Yuuup... I honestly don't know what kind of reaction the dev is expecting from that. Do they want to make us angry?
Also, I'm tired of this they and them nonsense. Is the dev male?

Honestly, most of us don't care. She's... boring? at least for me.

I mean when you break down her character, it's just a super busty cheating wife and that pretty much covers most of what she is.

 

[VoidExile]

Like seriously, look at this. What did I do to deserve this?

 

[shmurfer]

Kinda sucks but it makes sense once you unlock them. It's the Osako events that would have melted your brain once you were able to grind out 15-20 affection for her at 2 per weekend. Then you get a chance to see a cheater == true URM path to solidify how much Sel doesn't like his players.

 

[Moonflare]

I'm back with some random trivia/favorite moments (chapter 4):

Spoiler: chapter 4 stuff

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And that's it for now, until next time!

 

[Antosha]

There is context to what I said, which was regarding the parallel or lack there of between LiL and Fate/Stay Night.

Spoiler: further explanation

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Spoiler: Mother's milk

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I didn't disagree with this though.

Spoiler: What my point was

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Simply put, Io was feeling cornered from someone getting everything right about her and lashed out at Nodoka, which is a very dumb decision because Nodoka will strike back a hundred times worse. But it still is a different perspective between this being another piece of a masterplan that tries to break the world (as we once assumed), and just two girls being dicks to one another. Nodoka being worse obviously.

Fair.

I guess my sense — even in the moment — was that Io was being a bit of a dick (whose motivations made sense, even not knowing what she was hiding, and who I kinda sympathized with), but Nodoka was being a huge, throbbing, veiny, dripping putz, shoving itself dry into any hole it could find, not caring in the least whether it fit—and doing it for no reason whatsoever aside from self-gratification.

I never really saw Nodoka as a master plan kind of person, though she loved to present herself as such. I saw her as manic and delusional, with occasional flashes of real insight. And we learned in subsequent events (some of) the origin and import of those flashes.

 

[DeSkel15]

I'm back with some random trivia/favorite moments (chapter 4):

Spoiler: chapter 4 stuff

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And that's it for now, until next time!

Spoiler: Nothing is Beautiful stuff

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----
Also, since I apparently can't help myself:

Here’s what I took from Io going after Nodoka

Spoiler

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And sober or drunk, I completely agree that Nodoka is way worse than Kirin.

Kirin does what she does because she’s horny and, let’s face it, isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

Nodoka does what she does because she can.

(Which isn’t to say that I dint find her an interesting, compelling, occasionally amusing character. But girl’s a psychopath. That it took until the last reset for someone to kill her surprises me. )

ETA: I’ve been thinking about the old saying, “Never stick your dick in crazy.”

Its a lesson I learned the hard way.

Most of the cast are pretty nuts, tbh. Otoha’s the least neurotic I can think of. A number of the others are teetering on the edge of psychosis.

But as of the end of 0.46, there are three girls (and a ghost) I think definitely qualify: Nodoka, Chika, Ami, and of course Mama Crazy herself, Sekai.

Spoiler

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[Antosha]

I'm back with some random trivia/favorite moments (chapter 4):

Spoiler: chapter 4 stuff

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And that's it for now, until next time!

So many interesting points, but something that occurred to me about Sara’s handle…

Though “86” may be Sara’s birth year (?), to a bartender, that number also means “toss out of the bar without prejudice.” So… maybe she banned Saki at some point?

Also, one of the reasons I think Yuki is so appealing is that she is a strong, deeply flawed character whose struggles don’t (for once) center around Akira’s dick.

Also, she’s badass. Just saying.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Are you seriously implying that a sexual assault helped Yumi to grew up? Nah, hell no. It totally changed her dynamics with everyone, yes. But I wouldn't say it is a good thing after all.

I’m gonna use this as a segue to share my general feelings about Nodoka.

She is simply a natural disaster that is better to avoid than to confront. If you somehow managed to learn a positive lesson from an unpleasant encounter with her, you should thank your ability to learn, not her.
(I became a lot less bratty after breaking my leg during my early 20s, but I am not about praising any comminuted fracture anytime soon)

With all these being said, however, Matador was her one and only human moment and I am not letting anyone take that from her. No matter how all-time biased I am toward Yumi and no matter how out of proportion Nodoka’s revenge might be considered as, Nodoka had an understandable human incentive there, and that’s all we asked; she just failed to deliver a convincing one most of the time.

 

[Antosha]

I’m gonna use this as a segue to share my general feelings about Nodoka.

She is simply a natural disaster that is better to avoid than to confront. If you somehow managed to learn a positive lesson from an unpleasant encounter with her, you should thank your ability to learn, not her.
(I became a lot less bratty after breaking my leg during my early 20s, but I am not about praising any comminuted fracture anytime soon)

With all these being said, however, Matador was her one and only human moment and I am not letting anyone take that from her. No matter how all-time biased I am toward Yumi and no matter how out of proportion Nodoka’s revenge might be considered as, Nodoka had an understandable human incentive there, and that’s all we asked but she failed to deliver a convincing one most of the time.

Again, fair. Matador was at least an actual response to something someone else had done (Yumi’s bullying of Futaba), instead of just being Nodoka inflicting the games in her head on other people (cf, everything else she does).

Spoiler: Ch 3: Matador

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[VoidExile]

Without saying what awaits, does this check out for Nodoka?

 

[Antosha]

View attachment 4476711
Without saying what awaits, does this check out for Nodoka?

Just about, for me at least.

“Extremely eccentric” seems a bit generous.

“trouble empathizing and… a dysfunctional moral compass”

Also, it’s difficult to tell, even much later, whether she’s actively autistic (or narcissistic) and amoral or the voices in her head (which we do learn more about) are just really loud and drown out almost everything that’s happening to anyone else.

 

[daagagsdgd]

Again, fair. Matador was at least an actual response to something someone else had done (Yumi’s bullying of Futaba), instead of just being Nodoka inflicting the games in her head on other people (cf, everything else she does).

Spoiler: Ch 3: Matador

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What Nodoka did was by all means not a "retribution", such that she openly told you she revenged regardless of "the victim want her to or not." Her surrogate revenge was a well-conceived offend to Yumi's dignity that only makes sense in her mindset and values.

Which I mean, her biggest flaw from my opinion is that she often saw others simply as one may called "raw vectors to which her effort may be applied." It works well on people who she considered as friends and her initial interaction with Akira along with her other three friends was a great example that she could utiltize manipulate talent to benefit others. As for those she deemed worthless or ill-disposed, well she basically treated them as abjected worms. It's the least human incentive here in Matador since she didn't treat Yumi as another being but a puppet to toy with. Her sexual assault really caught me off guard at that moment. I might say she is eccentric, conceited and mostly well-reasoned one but never did I imagine anything like that.

Despite that, my Yumi declined her offer as a passive puppet and decided to trust her best friend was the greatest surprise both to me and Nodoka that actually led to that Nodoka standing alone bewildered at the twist. To which I must applaud to, Yumi, you did the right choice. This game has too many inevitabilities and cycles that characters incured to themselves. You can't let others define you, even if it's a happy illusion.

 

[Antosha]

Which I mean, her biggest flaw from my opinion is that she often saw others simply as one may called "raw vectors to which her effort may be applied." It works well on people who she considered as friends and her initial interaction with Akira along with her other three friends was a great example that she could utiltize manipulate talent to benefit others.

Yeah. Which is why I'm not sure -- even after the most recent reset -- whether Nodoka actually considers other human beings to be real. (And hey--the characters she's interacting with aren't real. They're characters in a very strange VN. So's she.)

And whether Futaba, Akira, or... whoever her other friends are consider her manipulations to be beneficial or not is still a real unanswered question. I don't think Futaba for one feels that way.

Despite that, my Yumi declined her offer as a passive puppet and decided to trust her best friend was the greatest surprise both to me and Nodoka that actually led to that Nodoka standing alone bewildered at the twist. To which I must applaud to, Yumi, you did the right choice. This game has too many inevitabilities and cycles that characters incured to themselves. You can't let others define you, even if it's a happy illusion.

Agreed.

 

[gazgiz]

Finally finished .46 and I know this will be unpopular, but what we've done to Chika is like 300x worse than what happened with Io to me.


Also I don't know if this has been said anywhere else, but I find it kind of interesting that neither Ami nor Maya have experienced a full Harem yet. Both of them say that they've had a threesome with everybody from the class, but no mention of orgies or the like.

Also, am I crazy for thinking Nu-Maya will eventually become the Maya we meet at the start of the game? In a very Dark like way?

 

[alteros]

Just realized that rather than having to choose between Good and Bad Uncle, I can just skip "I Really Want to Stay at Your House" entirely. It's not a requirement for anything, even other Noriko events. Main Events, it's only a requirement for a Maya event that is itself not required for anything. The question is whether or not I actually want to DO that. Idk if this meets the criteria of events I'd normally skip because this actually does advance Noriko and Akira's relationship.

Edit: Wait if Noriko gets an actual invite event, this one is gonna be in front of it so you'll have to get it out of the way, damn.

 

[DeSkel15]

View attachment 4476711
Without saying what awaits, does this check out for Nodoka?

More or less. (I've attempted to keep things spoiler free, while acknowledging where you are.)

Keep in mind that one of her early events has her trying to protect the girls from Sensei:

Spoiler

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Then later feeling uncomfortable and wishing Sensei would have came back so that she could apologize for making him uncomfortable:

Spoiler

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(Otoha called this more or less, showing that she actually knows Nodoka quite well.)

Nodoka really does seem to be the overly protective awkward type. She also seems to take responsibility for things involving her friends, whether she should or not.

As Nodoka has put it:

Spoiler

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Albeit, I'd add that she's perfectly willing to be a "bad girl" to do it (as shown with Yumi). She's someone who will play the bad guy with little regrets, and she'd probably consider the consequences worth it.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: Rin(tr)

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