Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[JackFateRipperNight]

probably an additional reason for selebus's success though is he reached out to other game makers like hero's harem guild (still better than both the games you mentioned even if the last time I heard anything about it was over half a year ago) and advertised between discord and patreon groups

Ah so its not the game essentially, its more about connections, discord and patreon groups he knew beforehand. So essentially good marketing?

 

[KnowNoHope]

Heh and who sued him and how? Only way this could've happened is if Illusion had a problem with him using koitatsu for his game. You cannot sue anybody for characters made in koitatsu, that is impossible. Unless maybe we talk big licenses but then he would've to sell the game and not merely take donations.
As for Champion of Realms that is not true. The MC barely fights, its rather the women who fight and he gets involved with them. The beginning is mostly teasing and figuring out portals. Well and there is a big exposition in the beginning about how the current world was created and all those different alternative plains of existence were made.
The MC gets more or less slowly isekaid and eventually surrounded by all the girls.

if you 3d render a unique design in a 3d printers software the design doesn't belong to the 3d printer company.
there is legal basis for this. all you need is a lawyer to file the paperwork and you still have to spend the money on a lawyer yourself and other fees.
as for champions, chunibyo. I literally have nothing else to say about that game.

Ah so its not the game essentially, its more about connections, discord and patreon groups he knew beforehand. So essentially good marketing?

not really as selebus is bigger than all the people he made connections with at this point by a huge margin, but i'd say that helped spread it

HHG actually reached out to me and I am so incredibly thankful for that.

neat, didn't realize it was the other way around

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Just wanna throw it out there that I quit a job in law to work on this game and that Illusion does not technically own any property made using their assets. Because not only is there zero precedent of them trying to protect their trademark in over ten years of distributing materials, but custom characters can use personally created assets that are not made by Illusion through the overlay system. There’s also the added element of the “characters” not being limited to simply their visual designs. And with over ten years of abandonment of their assets under their belt without any attempt to protect them, any third party product made using such materials would be incredibly hard to protect.

TLDR: Illusion doesn’t care what you do with their product as long as you buy it.

PS: I’m drunk right now wassup

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

Although Arc did replace every asset he stole (with low-quality, shitty-looking characters) which chased away even more fans

I can't find anything on that topic. But the Thread for that game is also huge.

Why don't people understand? If you write a story using Word, that's original. If you create digital art using Photoshop, that's original. If you create a game using Koikatsu, that's original. And if Person A makes original content, and then Person B uses that content without consent from Person A, that's theft of assets. Just like how if you wrote a story on Word and I used it without your permission, then that's also theft of assets.

All of that falls flat, when you use another game to make your game. You're essentially stealing everything from that game to make your own. Microsoft sells Word as a tool for people to easily write documents. The intention is that you use it to create something out of it.
So does Renpy offer its software, to make visual novels with.
The maps and characters in koitatsu however are meant to be played within the game. Everything you create within koitatsu is still owned by Illusion, you have no legal rights on the maps or the character cards you create. If you would try to go and sue somebody for using your character card, you would need to get in touch with Illusion since its technically theirs, not yours.
You're essentially also encouraged by Illusion to share those character cards, since you don't own them anyway and somebody else might like it.

Also, this game is a visual novel – basically a novel with images and sex scenes to compliment. So the focus is the novel, the other stuff is just a tasty side snack. That's how visual novels function, and some people just don't like it, just like some people don't like to read books. There's nothing wrong with that , it just probably ain't for you. Or maybe you might like this game if you change your mental and approach it like a book, I don't know.

I'm fine I think. Was just wondering, thank you for your comment.

 

[KnowNoHope]

Just wanna throw it out there that I quit a job in law to work on this game and that Illusion does not technically own any property made using their assets. Because not only is there zero precedent of them trying to protect their trademark in over ten years of distributing materials, but custom characters can use personally created assets that are not made by Illusion through the overlay system. There’s also the added element of the “characters” not being limited to simply their visual designs. And with over ten years of abandonment of their assets under their belt without any attempt to protect them, any third party product made using such materials would be incredibly hard to protect.

TLDR: Illusion doesn’t care what you do with their product as long as you buy it.

PS: I’m drunk right now wassup

thank you, I know practically nothing about law, when I read the explanation for why they were getting sued over using someone elses character design that was the best analogy I got over it. I'm drinking now too. rum, peach soda, grenadine, and lime juice

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

Just wanna throw it out there that I quit a job in law to work on this game and that Illusion does not technically own any property made using their assets. Because not only is there zero precedent of them trying to protect their trademark in over ten years of distributing materials, but custom characters can use personally created assets that are not made by Illusion through the overlay system. There’s also the added element of the “characters” not being limited to simply their visual designs. And with over ten years of abandonment of their assets under their belt without any attempt to protect them, any third party product made using such materials would be incredibly hard to protect.

TLDR: Illusion doesn’t care what you do with their product as long as you buy it.

PS: I’m drunk right now wassup

They don't care, because your game essentially falls under a "parody" and you're not selling a product. You take donations for your "work" which can be understand in fairly broad terms.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

thank you, I know practically nothing about law, when I read the explanation for why they were getting sued over using someone elses character design that was the best analogy I got over it. I'm drinking now too. rum, peach soda, grenadine, and lime juice

Yeah I obviously don’t know the whole situation because I’ve never played CK, but any legal action that was taken against Ark would have been from the creators of the assets he pulled from. It would not have come from Illusion. I can’t stress enough that Illusion does not own everything made using their products.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

They don't care, because your game essentially falls under a "parody" and you're not selling a product. You take donations for your "work" which can be understand in fairly broad terms.

Yeeeeeah that’s not how it works, man.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

If a company shows zero interest in protecting their assets over years worth of time, they’re abandoning their product. It’s similar to why Thermos lost copyright over their product the “Thermos” because they never bothered going after anyone who used the word to describe their own personal product. In order for Illusion to protect the assets you think they own for some reason, they would have needed to not go 10+ years without taking any action against people using them

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

Yeah I obviously don’t know the whole situation because I’ve never played CK, but any legal action that was taken against Ark would have been from the creators of the assets he pulled from. It would not have come from Illusion. I can’t stress enough that Illusion does not own everything made using their products.

Yes they do. Its their game, its their character creator. Every polygon on those characters, was handmade by a person working in Illusion. Its their creation by definition.
That is also why I doubt some random guys sued him and that they actually had any rights on those characters. I mean you can sue anyone for everything but it would've never worked out. The second he would mention all those characters were made in the koitatsu character creator, the case would be dropped immediately.
Maybe Arc just got cold feet? Or he didn't want to go to court over Hentai? Who knows?

 

[KnowNoHope]

Yeah I obviously don’t know the whole situation because I’ve never played CK, but any legal action that was taken against Ark would have been from the creators of the assets he pulled from. It would not have come from Illusion. I can’t stress enough that Illusion does not own everything made using their products.

yeah he made it really clear it was the people who designed the character used not the company that made the game. He lifted the designs from several guys personal collections of characters without asking and put them in the game. I thought I was being clear on that and I'm sorry if I wasn't.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Yes they do. Its their game, its their character creator. Every polygon on those characters, was handmade by a person working in Illusion. Its their creation by definition.
That is also why I doubt some random guys sued him and that they actually had any rights on those characters. I mean you can sue anyone for everything but it would've never worked out. The second he would mention all those characters were made in the koitatsu character creator, the case would be dropped immediately.
Maybe Arc just got cold feet? Or he didn't want to go to court over Hentai? Who knows?

Do you have a background in law? Because I do and I’m literally explaining to you why it doesn’t work that way, lmao

 

[Kitsune241]

They don't care, because your game essentially falls under a "parody" and you're not selling a product. You take donations for your "work" which can be understand in fairly broad terms.

I'm going to be blunt, you sound like you have very little idea what you're talking about on legal matters, and you're trying to argue with a dev that has both first hand experience with the subject and apparently a legal background... you're not winning this.

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

If a company shows zero interest in protecting their assets over years worth of time, they’re abandoning their product. It’s similar to why Thermos lost copyright over their product the “Thermos” because they never bothered going after anyone who used the word to describe their own personal product. In order for Illusion to protect the assets you think they own for some reason, they would have needed to not go 10+ years without taking any action against people using them

That is simply a childish outlook on things. You think if you put a legit price tag on your game and put it on steam, Illusion will just ignore that? Well and I'd argue they do protect their assets, you're not some kind of rivaling company that tries to sell those assets or profit from using those assets in a copyright protected game.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

That is simply a childish outlook on things. You think if you put a legit price tag on your game and put it on steam, Illusion will just ignore that? Well and I'd argue they do protect their assets, you're not some kind of rivaling company that tries to sell those assets or profit from using those assets in a copyright protected game.

Bruh

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

Do you have a background in law? Because I do and I’m literally explaining to you why it doesn’t work that way, lmao

Yea, I'm a Lawyer.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Yea, I'm a Lawyer.

Lmao okay sure you are

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

Bruh

Well, lets just agree that we disagree on that. We kind of lost the original topic anyway at this point. I think its more of a grayzone, you think its abandonware. Okay.

 

[KnowNoHope]

It's convo's like this that make me like f95 just a little more than discord. laughs in acrylic

 

[JackFateRipperNight]

It's convo's like this that make me like f95 just a little more than discord. laughs in acrylic

Yes, it was an interesting conversation and I also enjoyed it. I hope nobody takes offense however and I'd be sorry if anyone did, I only mean to voice my opinion and hear other opinions on that matter.