Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[alex2011]

Also, I gotta say, for someone tots not being into "big" girls at all (I like petite a very lot), Futaba is actually great.
I was tots uninterested in her for a long time but she managed with her sweetness and her character writing for me to care for her just like the rest, and I hate how Sensei treats her.

But then again, this is true for a whole bunch of the girls (except for Kirin. Screw Kirin, literally and figuratively.)

I'm not into big girls and I also like Futaba. While she is too submissive toward certain people for her own good, she's a very kind a gentle girl and I like those types.

I do hope that, somewhere along the line, he eventually gets some sort of redemption arc. I love the game, I love the girls' stories but I kinda don't like playing as a piece of shit. I believe that among all his mental instability there is still some good and eventually you can fix your mistakes or something like that.

You're not supposed to like playing as him, actually, you're supposed to hate him. That said, I am seeing VERY minor signs of this redemption. Let's just hope the bad HAPPY things to come don't screw that redemption up.

I think, ultimately, in the very long run, this will happen.
It is not that Newsei, the new Sensei (or very Oldsei, so to speak, unbeknowing to him) is an unempathic asshole.
The issue he has right now is that he does not feel that he belongs in this world, that it is his world, his story, his history.
And therefore he does what probably many in a very unique situation as his would do: treat it like pervert GTA.

We humans, aside of my firm belief that we do have morals for other than mere selfish reasons, act (mostly) responsible and considerate because of the consequences our actions would have otherwise. But if we think there are no consequences, that nothing is real and nothing will have lasting damage, then I am afraid most of us would succumb to our darker, more free and much, much less considerate fantasies that deep down we all have ("I wish I was more of an asshole but...").

Newsei is in this state of mind. He still treats it as some kind of game (ironic, isn't it?), as something without lasting consequences, so why would, should he care? It also is fundamentally a very interesting situation, as he is a New Sensei "reborn", yet hinted to be the very first Oldsei nonetheless. So he is in a very direct conflict with everything his actual self stands for, without even realizing it.

This realization will come though. And it will come through quite great tragedy during the sad arc. And we can at least make an educated guess that he will be able to fix some of the damage his previous, all to (in)human error caused.
The big question though, and the whole full circle of this game is if he can still save Maya, and if there even is a chance for that. That is the question I think no one aside Sel can answer as of now. (Though ffs I really hope so. She deserves so much after all the pain she already has endured during all those cycles...)

I don't even think we're dealing with the same Sensei the girls came to know before the story. Yes, the same person, but not the same mentally speaking.

I suspect it's going to get MUCH worse before we see a significant positive change.

Definitely, that's how Denpa works typically and even Selebus has said as much.

He shows flashes of it, then goes and does something like what he did to Miku. He's still very much a terrible person, and never actually shows signs of remorse when he causes actual harm. Or, for that matter, his complete lack of remorse for what Ayane went through during this last reset.

He's very much in a battle between a force that actively wants to destroy the girls (and has said as much in some of his interior monologues) and a higher nature. Don't let the brief flashes fool you, he's still doing more harm than good on average.

I still haven't forgiven him for the Miku thing and I may not ever do so.

That must be because she never does it in english, but either japanese or hexa code. It's a pain but I translate the hexa code every time I see it, it's worth it


Yeah, probably. I don't mind that though, I just hope that at some point it gets a little better. I never liked pure evil or pure good characters, I prefer flawed ones in grey areas but so far I can't say that the MC fits there.

I wouldn't call player Sensei pure evil at this point, just an asshole with almost no filter for his asshole behavior.

orrrrr you can cheat, reverse to during the beach, and unset the chika event in the console ;P

Believe it or not, that's actually A LOT more tedious than just going back through the event the normal way. You have to know, or find, the flag set by that event and any other events affected by it, which there are some, or you could severely screw up the game.

You'd be better served cheating in game if you're going to cheat, but then you suffer whatever consequences Selebus decides to place into the game for any save marked as a cheater save.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Does anyone know if there's an optimal scene replay order? I don't want to replay through the stat-grind or make any different choices, I just want to replay the scenes in an actual order and scrutinize for lore bits I may have forgotten in the gaps between updates.

 

[alex2011]

Does anyone know if there's an optimal scene replay order? I don't want to replay through the stat-grind or make any different choices, I just want to replay the scenes in an actual order and scrutinize for lore bits I may have forgotten in the gaps between updates.

Not really, the order in which scenes play is entirely dependent on when you meet the unlock requirements, so it is entirely possible to see events out of the listed order at points because they don't require the previous event. For example, you could see one event in the main category and then the next one is two events below it on that list because you met the requirements for the event two below before the next event after the one you saw.

As far as replay as in going into the tracker and watching already unlocked events, they are pretty much presented in the order they should be viewed going from frst to last downward, but you would only really need to watch events that actually contain important puzzle information like the Trinity events.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Not really, the order in which scenes play is entirely dependent on when you meet the unlock requirements, so it is entirely possible to see events out of the listed order at points because they don't require the previous event. For example, you could see one event in the main category and then the next one is two events below it on that list because you met the requirements for the event two below before the next event after the one you saw.

As far as replay as in going into the tracker and watching already unlocked events, they are pretty much presented in the order they should be viewed going from frst to last downward, but you would only really need to watch events that actually contain important puzzle information like the Trinity events.

Yeah, mostly hoping someone had a guide for "these happy events happen somewhere in this range, these main girl events happen after X but before Y. Within each category, it's obvious, but when trying to reassemble the various categories together into a narrative. It rarely actually matters, I know, but just in case it does even once...

 

[PrimeGuy]

In the 4th happy event you ask her to change your name to some random hexa code, but if translate it to normal letters it reads sekai. In that very same scene the angels things say "feed it to 望む (nozomu)" refering to, I believe, the happy scene maya. Nozomu being ami's mother. And in the sixth happy scene dream maya says "What is wrong, 世界(sekai) ?"
So as you can imagine, I'm incredibly confused by all this xD

Based on the grave, I believe Nozumu is Ami's father.

 

[alex2011]

Yeah, mostly hoping someone had a guide for "these happy events happen somewhere in this range, these main girl events happen after X but before Y. Within each category, it's obvious, but when trying to reassemble the various categories together into a narrative. It rarely actually matters, I know, but just in case it does even once...

I don't think we even have enough information for a narrative yet, we'll get there, though. There are a lot of holes to fill yet.

 

[niconob92]

Based on the grave, I believe Nozumu is Ami's father.

The grave has both names on it, how do you know which is the father and which is the mother? I mean nozomu does sound a lot more like a male name and sekai a female name but given how the MC is called sekai in the dreams I thought sekai was the father.

 

[Dragon59]

I was reminded of something I really appreciate in LiL.

We were talking about how strange it is when an early repeatable scene with an LI remains unchanged though the relationship has progressed far beyond that. The example is the LI being shy the first time you see them in the shower. Every time you see them in the shower, they will continue to be just as shy as the first time.

I just want to say that I appreciate that Selebus has allowed us access to all the sexual behaviors whether we're in the LI's space or inviting them to our own. Headpats being the exception, of course.

 

[alex2011]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

2) For each character that has incomplete events, I have to click "Go Somewhere" and either go to their hangout, or their room on the dorm, usually both

3) or click "Call Someone" and try to call them, usually they don't pick up of give the same canned response

4) or "Invite over" and see if you can invite them over

5) Try again it all again either Saturday, Sunday, or both since some events only happen on the weekends.

6) Half the time none of this will work to trigger their next event, so I have to go look at the wiki online and try to figure out how to get the events I can't figure out how to get for each character, one after another, until I finally see all the available events.

To me, it seems quite repetitive. I love the events themselves. For example, the latest contest storyline was amazing, the best yet. But why does the normal gameplay have to be the same, day after day? Selebus indicates that there are many, many, more updates, which is wonderful. The longer the better. But, is the only way to play this game to click "Go Somewhere" and repetitively click through all the options, hundreds and thousands of times, over and over again, to see the next scenes?

I am not a game developer, but surely there is a better way.

Selebus, can you consider streamlining the repetitive tasks needed for each scene so it is not so repetitive. Why does the player need to go to every girl's hangout, and every girl's room, and see the same placeholder scene over and over and over again in order to try to find what trigger gets to the next scene?

What if we could just get a little button or icon somewhere on the screen when you are at the right moment for a scene? For example, let's say that in the story you want a scene with Futaba on Saturday night. Whenever Saturday night occurs, just have an icon on the screen with a little Futaba image or text, so we could just click on it? You can have a different icon for each scene that is ready, based on the current events.

Maybe there is an even better way to do it than my suggestion, but while I absolutely love the content of the story, I don't love having to click on each girl's dorm door or visit the maid cafe hundreds of times, over an over again, just to see the same canned placeholder scene, which while certainly cute, does get repetitive the 100th time i've seen it.

To me it least, it seems like there must be a better way to do this.

Please don't take this as a knock on Lessons in Love, which I think is truly one of the greatest games here. In 10 years, I will still be thinking about it after 99.5% of the other games I have played are long forgotten.

I just think that the day to day search for the next scene for each character could be improved with some tweaking of the interface. Keeping it in the game is best, so the user isn't taken out of the game experience. I would dislike a separate menu, for example, where you just clicked to jump to the next scene, wherever you were in the game. This would take the immersion away from the player. But some kind of in game guidance for the player, maybe even an non-clickable icon just to know what characters have scenes available at that game time (Wednesday Afternoon, for example), and the player could still visit their hangout or dorm room to try to trigger it, but it would be more guided than the current approach, where I am often lost as to what I need to do to proceed, and end up having to perform a lot of tasks over and over to try to figure it out.

The repetition doesn't really bother me as I got used to it with other VNs of similar type, meaning with more than just a story that occasionally brought up choices.

 

[hcguy]

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

You know that you can click the "Progress" button at the bottom of the screen and see exactly who has outstanding events, right? You don't need to go into each girl's page.

 

[barglenarglezous]

You know that you can click the "Progress" button at the bottom of the screen and see exactly who has outstanding events, right? You don't need to go into each girl's page.

I only found this a few updates ago. It could benefit from something that makes it stand out better.

 

[cckerberos]

Sel has said that he has plans to update the game's UI at some point, but I would be surprised if there was anything on the level of what you've suggested. Partially because he seems resistant to making events "too easy" to find, and partly because he's a completely self-taught programmer so likes to keep things simple under the hood.

I haven't given a ton of thought to how I would add icons like you suggest (which would be awesome, I agree) but, given the way things are organized in the code, I believe that it would be very time-consuming (though not really difficult) to retroactively add as a feature.

I'm obviously biased, but I think that my mod is probably about as close as is possible to what you're asking for without putting in a lot of work (though the icon thing is something I might tinker with the next time I'm bored).

 

[PrimeGuy]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

2) For each character that has incomplete events, I have to click "Go Somewhere" and either go to their hangout, or their room on the dorm, usually both

3) or click "Call Someone" and try to call them, usually they don't pick up of give the same canned response

4) or "Invite over" and see if you can invite them over

5) Try again it all again either Saturday, Sunday, or both since some events only happen on the weekends.

6) Half the time none of this will work to trigger their next event, so I have to go look at the wiki online and try to figure out how to get the events I can't figure out how to get for each character, one after another, until I finally see all the available events.

To me, it seems quite repetitive. I love the events themselves. For example, the latest contest storyline was amazing, the best yet. But why does the normal gameplay have to be the same, day after day? Selebus indicates that there are many, many, more updates, which is wonderful. The longer the better. But, is the only way to play this game to click "Go Somewhere" and repetitively click through all the options, hundreds and thousands of times, over and over again, to see the next scenes?

I am not a game developer, but surely there is a better way.

Selebus, can you consider streamlining the repetitive tasks needed for each scene so it is not so repetitive. Why does the player need to go to every girl's hangout, and every girl's room, and see the same placeholder scene over and over and over again in order to try to find what trigger gets to the next scene?

What if we could just get a little button or icon somewhere on the screen when you are at the right moment for a scene? For example, let's say that in the story you want a scene with Futaba on Saturday night. Whenever Saturday night occurs, just have an icon on the screen with a little Futaba image or text, so we could just click on it? You can have a different icon for each scene that is ready, based on the current events.

Maybe there is an even better way to do it than my suggestion, but while I absolutely love the content of the story, I don't love having to click on each girl's dorm door or visit the maid cafe hundreds of times, over an over again, just to see the same canned placeholder scene, which while certainly cute, does get repetitive the 100th time i've seen it.

To me it least, it seems like there must be a better way to do this.

Please don't take this as a knock on Lessons in Love, which I think is truly one of the greatest games here. In 10 years, I will still be thinking about it after 99.5% of the other games I have played are long forgotten.

I just think that the day to day search for the next scene for each character could be improved with some tweaking of the interface. Keeping it in the game is best, so the user isn't taken out of the game experience. I would dislike a separate menu, for example, where you just clicked to jump to the next scene, wherever you were in the game. This would take the immersion away from the player. But some kind of in game guidance for the player, maybe even an non-clickable icon just to know what characters have scenes available at that game time (Wednesday Afternoon, for example), and the player could still visit their hangout or dorm room to try to trigger it, but it would be more guided than the current approach, where I am often lost as to what I need to do to proceed, and end up having to perform a lot of tasks over and over to try to figure it out.

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

 

[barglenarglezous]

What!?!?!

I never noticed that. Thanks!

I still think a clickable link or just an icon, whenever an event for a particular girl is available at a certain time of day, would make it a lot less repetitive, but that does help so I don't have to keep going back and forth with the character screen.

Thanks for the info!

I should also point out that the latest update contains a puzzle that actively punishes you if you enter the answer without first viewing the scene that contains the answers, just in case someone decides to come here for the solution before even looking for the solution in game.

This is not a game that's going to spoon feed you.

 

[cckerberos]

I love your mod. It helps a lot with not knowing what to do next. I just wanted to throw out the icon idea for Selebus. It would reduce some of the repetition. I don't know how hard it would be, but it seems like it would be possible, just by checking for triggers for the current day, and displaying the corresponding icon on the side of the screen somewhere.

PS: Where can we get the latest version of your mod. It isn't listed in the OP.

Yeah, it definitely would be possible, and I guess you would be to ignore main and happy events, which would cut the work in half. It wouldn't be pretty, but you could do it by just having a list of hundreds of trigger checks.

PS: It's linked in the OP, just under "Guide" since I attach it to the same post I used to use for PDFs.

 

[akselx]

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.
...

I don't, for the life of me, understand why you need so many steps, so needlessly complicated. Writing stuff down...What for? You have a progress button, use it. Meanwhile, characters have only 2 places you can visit + phone call and maybe invite, if implemented. If character specific events don't trigger, just wait for main story ones to pass first.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

At least for this step, you can skip it by clicking the "progress" button at the bottom of the screen. Although it does not specify how many incomplete events there are, it lets you know that there are events available for which character, or main events available, or happy events available

 

[Dragon59]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

There are a number of AVN developers who have worked to come up with a workable balance of hand holding and being thrown into the deep end. Some, like Xavster put little icons on the ship map to show which rooms contain repeatable or new scenes. Others, like NLT and many others will leave the player to explore, but provide a hint mechanic to give some small nudge. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Some do it well, some don't.

The repetition doesn't really bother me as I got used to it with other VNs of similar type, meaning with more than just a story that occasionally brought up choices.

Definitely, there are number of games with constant grind to wait for an opportunity with one of maybe four LIs. Here, at least, we're kept relatively busy with options. Yes, I tend to click on a link and then back up if it isn't a new scene, but as you said, it's less of a pain than other games.

Sel has said that he has plans to update the game's UI at some point, but I would be surprised if there was anything on the level of what you've suggested. Partially because he seems resistant to making events "too easy" to find, and partly because he's a completely self-taught programmer so likes to keep things simple under the hood.

I haven't given a ton of thought to how I would add icons like you suggest (which would be awesome, I agree) but, given the way things are organized in the code, I believe that it would be very time-consuming (though not really difficult) to retroactively add as a feature.

I'm obviously biased, but I think that my mod is probably about as close as is possible to what you're asking for without putting in a lot of work (though the icon thing is something I might tinker with the next time I'm bored).

So far, I've been going with the WTs for guidance rather than a mod.

Of course, the mod I'd like to have is an "auto-pat" mod. One click to pat 25(?) times to get to next text box, then one click to resume. I've been doing mouse button spamming, so it's not that much of a burden.

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

And the Happy events are supposed to be relative jump-scares.

 

[alex2011]

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

That may or may not be part of the intent, but that certainly is true about the impact. Horror elements aren't effective when they are expected and while a player can expect them in the game as a whole, being unable to predict exactly when they will fire is what adds that extra impact.

I should also point out that the latest update contains a puzzle that actively punishes you if you enter the answer without first viewing the scene that contains the answers, just in case someone decides to come here for the solution before even looking for the solution in game.

This is not a game that's going to spoon feed you.

This may also be reaction to the previous puzzle's reaction, people complaining about getting stuck in said puzzle because they weren't paying attention or were actively skipping text. Honestly, I approve of this methodology as I am getting a little annoyed constantly seeing people complain even though I haven't and won't make a big deal out of it.

Selebus has been known to punish players and the puzzle in "There Is Nothing" was directly stated by him to be reaction to similar. It seems the first time didn't work, so he added a new puzzle as a potential second attempt and even put in a safeguard against the skippers and the people who don't read carefully enough, though that is just speculation.

I don't, for the life of me, understand why you need so many steps, so needlessly complicated. Writing stuff down...What for? You have a progress button, use it. Meanwhile, characters have only 2 places you can visit + phone call and maybe invite, if implemented. If character specific events don't trigger, just wait for main story ones to pass first.

Writing is good for the puzzles that may get put in several updates after the answers to said puzzle.

 

[SpaceLobster]

I've not been here for a while and wow, this game got a lot bigger. Hah, it'll take me some time to read the forums and play through all the updates