Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.47.0] [Selebus]

[PhiloPhilo]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

I don't think there's been a lot, but it would be welcome. Can I ask how you translated those names? I'm having trouble interpreting some of them the same way (though I'm not proficient.) Their names and other characters' seem to largely be taken from the names of places or typical surnames/clan names at first glance as well. It's not fun to Occam's razor everything, but it's hard to speculate much without a definitive translation, especially made hard without the actual spelling / Kanji. If those exist in-game or in a translation/outside source I'm unaware

 

[Bingoogus]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

I was under the impression that just about all names in Hiragana are largely meaningless beyond common convention and that it's only the Kanji that are given deeper meaning and that many many names can be written in multiple different Kanji, all meaning something different... if even half of that is true and the author doesn't speak Japanese or know Kanji, i think it'd be a fool's errand to try and derive some kind of useful information from sifting through all the names, i'd bet good money Selly just picked what sounded good to his English-speaking ears. Maybe he googled a few and felt the descriptions fit but i'd put no more weight on it then when any of us look for a name for a player character in an RPG.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

I was under the impression that just about all names in Hiragana are largely meaningless beyond common convention and that it's only the Kanji that are given deeper meaning and that many many names can be written in multiple different Kanji, all meaning something different... if even half of that is true and the author doesn't speak Japanese or know Kanji, i think it'd be a fool's errand to try and derive some kind of useful information from sifting through all the names, i'd bet good money Selly just picked what sounded good to his English-speaking ears. Maybe he googled a few and felt the descriptions fit but i'd put no more weight on it then when any of us look for a name for a player character in an RPG.

(Far as I know) Surnames are, at least generally/historically, written with the same kanji and not changed. It'd be like adding a silent h or a to an English last name randomly, but weirder. The kanji can change the meaning or etymology, though. You can have two words that are homophones but different spelling in English, or spelling/kanji in sushi-language. That's what makes it extra difficult.

After looking into it a little bit, most of the names I double checked are well-known locations/cities, surnames (that often double as or originate from locations, i.e. toponymic names,) or the names of well-known people/characters/things. So I think Selebus most likely racked his brain for or googled common names and things to use for the characters that fit the matching initials thing. That's also the simplest explanation. I don't believe he knows any Japanese, but who knows.

If someone more proficient in Japanese recognizes additional meanings / spellings / origins for names that seem plausible, there might be something for a couple of characters. I have one vague possibility in mind, but that's a huge stretch. I'm not qualified to posit anything.

 

[Comiies]

(Far as I know) Surnames are, at least generally/historically, written with the same kanji and not changed. It'd be like adding a silent h or a to an English last name randomly, but weirder. The kanji can change the meaning or etymology, though. You can have two words that are homophones but different spelling in English, or spelling/kanji in sushi-language. That's what makes it extra difficult.

After looking into it a little bit, most of the names I double checked are well-known locations/cities, surnames (that often double as or originate from locations, i.e. toponymic names,) or the names of well-known people/characters/things. So I think Selebus most likely racked his brain for or googled common names and things to use for the characters that fit the matching initials thing. That's also the simplest explanation. I don't believe he knows any Japanese, but who knows.

If someone more proficient in Japanese recognizes additional meanings / spellings / origins for names that seem plausible, there might be something for a couple of characters. I have one vague possibility in mind, but that's a huge stretch. I'm not qualified to posit anything.

Nah but if Sel has hidden lore into the girls names i will pull the trigger.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Nah but if Sel has hidden lore into the girls names i will pull the trigger.

Spoiler: Sensei's family origin spoilers

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[LoveRedHairedGirl]

I don't think there is a deep meaning behind their names. At least, not for the original cast. For example, there is no significant background story behind Yumi being named Yamaguchi other than her being the daughter of the yakuza, which is not playing huge role in the game or lore.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

I don't recall discussion of the names themselves, just discussion of why all the names are alliterative.

 

[uhhhwhat]

I don't think there's been a lot, but it would be welcome. Can I ask how you translated those names? I'm having trouble interpreting some of them the same way (though I'm not proficient.) Their names and other characters' seem to largely be taken from the names of places or typical surnames/clan names at first glance as well. It's not fun to Occam's razor everything, but it's hard to speculate much without a definitive translation, especially made hard without the actual spelling / Kanji. If those exist in-game or in a translation/outside source I'm unaware

Almost all of the surnames come from cities/districts/some form of locality in Japan with the exception of Molly (cause shes Irish af) and Maya (which makes me think its a fake last name). There actually have been three kanji confirmations that I've seen and I wish I had the photos to attach here, maybe someone could find them. Kaori Kadowaki (門脇), Wakana Watabe (渡部), and Imani Imai (今井). Kaori and Imani both have their names on their doors, I remember seeing it on an event with Sensei talking to Yuki and Imani was behind them, and you could see the nameplate. Kaori's had Nao-chan with her eyes all weird and had the Kadowaki nameplate with the number 23 above it. Could be a giant nothingburgerfriendburger, but my line of reasoning was if the names Sekai and Nozomu maybe have a meaning, then other names might too, idk. Also fun fact, you can see Kyoko Nagasawa written in hiragana all the way back in the happy event Something Everyone Knows and Ignores.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

Not really. Names with useful hidden meaning are created top down from their kanji writings and not bottom up from their hiragana spellings, let alone their English approximations. I.e., you need to see their names in kanji in order to to even start speculating, and that's a hurdle we can't overcome for most characters in the games.

If a name doesn't sound like a name or can easily be related to some cringe elements, sure we can be suspicious; but all the names in the game (even those with their kanji writings shown) are, as far as I can tell, fairly common names.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Almost all of the surnames come from cities/districts/some form of locality in Japan with the exception of Molly (cause shes Irish af) and Maya (which makes me think its a fake last name). There actually have been three kanji confirmations that I've seen and I wish I had the photos to attach here, maybe someone could find them. Kaori Kadowaki (門脇), Wakana Watabe (渡部), and Imani Imai (今井). Kaori and Imani both have their names on their doors, I remember seeing it on an event with Sensei talking to Yuki and Imani was behind them, and you could see the nameplate. Kaori's had Nao-chan with her eyes all weird and had the Kadowaki nameplate with the number 23 above it. Could be a giant nothingburgerfriendburger, but my line of reasoning was if the names Sekai and Nozomu maybe have a meaning, then other names might too, idk. Also fun fact, you can see Kyoko Nagasawa written in hiragana all the way back in the happy event Something Everyone Knows and Ignores.

A good amount of the names aren't actually from well known locations as far as I can tell, but are just surnames or other things. I could be wrong, but I don't think a name not being a city or prefecture is an outlier. The Makinami is actually a destroyer of the JMSDF, formerly the imperial navy (there have been three, one lost, one retired, one in service.) I actually don't understand that earlier translation of Kadowaki, I'm not sure where that came from, but I would translate it differently if I had to. It is just a common surname though, actually one shared by a baseball player (And Sel is/was a baseball nerd.) Same goes for Watabe, but Imai I'm not sure.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

1. I'm pretty sure the "she" is Yuko aka DOUBT, the girl with lavender hair from the upside down house that Kyoko was in love with. Futaba has been connected to her before because of the lavender (Futaba smells like lavender). It seems like Yuko had the ability to leave the house (getting groceries and books) by physically traveling between planes like Futaba does. I'm not sure exactly what Futaba's connection to her is, but it almost seems like Nodoka is suggesting that it's hereditary; is it possible that Futaba is her daughter? Maybe Yuko left the house permanently at some point, or maybe Futaba is unknowingly adopted.

That's quite a lot of extrapolation solely based off the fact that Futaba uses lavender-scented perfume. There are so many assumptions here that need to be all correct in order to have "Yuko aka DOUBT being this she" make sense when we can't even confidently discern what the upside down house really is.

To streamline your claim (apologies if I sound impolitely sarcastic), that means Yuko can leave the upside down house for books and groceries thus can also travel through planes, and got pregnant on aisle 23 when she was outside, and gave birth to Futaba, and had her adopted by others without Futaba's knowing it, and Futaba chose lavender-scented perfume because of the hair of a woman who Futaba doesn't know that's her bio-mom, and definitely not because it simply smells good.

I get that you're trying to fill the blank between "Futaba traveled through planes for the first time" and "There is someone in the upside down that has lavender for hair and Futaba actually uses lavender-scented perfume" and explore a potential bridge, but to do so all of the things described above would have to be true to a certain extent, otherwise the chance of this she being Yuko drops enormously.

 

[Antosha]

That's quite a lot of extrapolation solely based off the fact that Futaba uses lavender-scented perfume. There are so many assumptions here that need to be all correct in order to have "Yuko aka DOUBT being this she" make sense when we can't even confidently discern what the upside down house really is.

To streamline your claim (apologies if I sound impolitely sarcastic), that means Yuko can leave the upside down house for books and groceries thus can also travel through planes, and got pregnant on aisle 23 when she was outside, and gave birth to Futaba, and had her adopted by others without Futaba's knowing it, and Futaba chose lavender-scented perfume because of the hair of a woman who Futaba doesn't know that's her bio-mom, and definitely not because it simply smells good.

I get that you're trying to fill the blank between "Futaba traveled through planes for the first time" and "There is someone in the upside down that has lavender for hair and Futaba actually uses lavender-scented perfume" and explore a potential bridge, but to do so all of the things described above would have to be true to a certain extent, otherwise the chance of this she being Yuko drops enormously.

So you’re saying this extrapolation might be… pareidolia?

 

[BlackDays]

I don't think there is a deep meaning behind their names. At least, not for the original cast. For example, there is no significant background story behind Yumi being named Yamaguchi other than her being the daughter of the yakuza, which is not playing huge role in the game or lore.

Were you meaning This?

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I wonder if Hope knows Yumi as Gumi.

 

[crustlord12]

how the fuck do you all know so much about Japanese writing? weebs smdh

 

[Moonflare]

how the fuck do you all know so much about Japanese writing? weebs smdh

All these guys discussing the differences between the uses of hiragana and kanji as it relates to naming conventions and I barely speak English

 

[PhiloPhilo]

how the fuck do you all know so much about Japanese writing? weebs smdh

Worked with a bunch of Japanese linguists and instructors. They love their shitty pop music but they're alright

 

[Bingoogus]

how the fuck do you all know so much about Japanese writing? weebs smdh

All these guys discussing the differences between the uses of hiragana and kanji as it relates to naming conventions and I barely speak English

If it makes you both feel any better, i only know enough to have some grasp of just how much i don't know. Couldn't tell you what a single squiggle means.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Were you meaning This?

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I wonder if Hope knows Yumi as Gumi.

Yeah. But calling Yumi as Gumi is... a strange thing.

 

[Comiies]

how the fuck do you all know so much about Japanese writing? weebs smdh

The moon runes have chosen them.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

So you’re saying this extrapolation might be… pareidolia?

That's not what I meant. I am challenging whether any extrapolation of any sort here is needed even because it all comes down to the different take on Nodoka saying "you (Futaba) are special because she was".

If one believes that sentence insinuates "Futaba is special because a certain special female passed down this trait to you", then yes some extrapolation is needed (one additional assumption here is that Nodoka needs to know this connection in order to make the analogy)

If one believes that sentence insinuates "Futaba is special because Nodoka knows a certain special female have gone through similar things", then no you don't need any extrapolation, as Nodoka is merely drawing a comparison between two people based on their shared experiences with plane-traveling and not based on their similar abilities in plane-traveling.