Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.47.0] [Selebus]

[Detective Dc345]

Since we are now officially 45% through Chapter 4, I can say Sel really turned Chapter 4 around. Because the first couple of updates in chapter 4 were less than stellar.

 

[Moonflare]

He could be our true bro if he had complied with the request upon returning Prime

That assumes he could do it, or even that he was the one that did it. It was never certain and now even less so.

On a previous talk, he advises Akira to not open his eyes until it is done. Now, here's my question, if Akira had sex with Maya prior to this wouldn't he have erased himself regardless? As it happened so many times before, according to Maya? So why does a god even have to be involved in this?

It could be that Pareidolia knew it would happen and instead made sure that it would be Maya that would erase herself, rather than erasing Akira. Just after it's done, he muses about who would even take credit for it.

Furthermore, Pareidolia says that anyone that could bring Maya back wasn't there then. Were they sleeping? Did he hit them over the head with a frying pan? Also, if he didn't erase Maya (he only does it from inside Kaori's body), was a god always peotecting Maya from being erased when she had sex with Akira (instead erasing him?).

lots of questions.

 

[Meskal1ne]

On a previous talk, he advises Akira to not open his eyes until it is done. Now, here's my question, if Akira had sex with Maya prior to this wouldn't he have erased himself regardless? As it happened so many times before, according to Maya? So why does a god even have to be involved in this?

We can only make guesses, this theme tied up with speculations and shizotheories. I can build an answer on one of them.

1. Maya is a shrine maiden of an old god (named with letter "T"), and from the very beginning she served her god faithfully.
At some point she falls in love with Akira (who is most likely also part of the dynasty of deities) and stops believing in her god.
The old god dies, since gods in whom people do not believe cannot exist.
2. A bunch of new false gods appear and replace each other. At some point they decide to resurrect the old god, the details are not important now. Some condition must be done for the resurrection of the old god - for example, impregnate everyone or climb to the top of the hill of naked bodies, doesnot matter now.
3. The current iteration of Akira is different from previous ones - and apparently, it is best suited to fulfill this condition.
It is impossible to return Maya back to her god, especially considering the “real sensei”, she will only get in the way.

Accordingly, the easiest way - to erase her.

 

[NULLWIZARD]

marvel of technical mastery for vn would be ,,out of touch'', perfect pitch would be definitely upgrade compared to lil on technical level but not an insane one, also no amount of technical excellence can compensate writing anyway, If I would want to play games that are better on technical level, I wouldn't be searching them among vn's in first place. but that's just my opinion ofcourse

Lol, Lmao even. We have very different tastes, because in my case I would not recommend "Out of touch" to anyone ever. Not in terms of writing and neither in terms of technical work. It is normal to have very different subjective opinions on games like these, so I think we can leave it at that. I still recommend to try out Perfect Pitch to anyone who wants to try it out and you can recommend "Out of touch" to any people you want, the two of us just wont do such things for our respectively disliked games in this instance

yeah I agree with Noob Gamer, Out of Touch is fairly mid imo in both writing and gameplay: it's too verbose, all the drama feels contrived, and the whole thing seems to be centered around the power of friendship

true, I tried searching for something similar among regular books or other media, but I just cant find anything that satisfies similar itch. like how do you even describe style of lil writing? arthouse?

American Psycho is an excellent novel that scratches the exact same itch Suba Hibi is decent too if you want a VN

I know this question has been asked on this thread a dozen times already, but I haven't seen an answer I actually like yet. Are there any games out there that match this game's quality? It doesn't have to be like LiL plotwise in literally any way. But despite all of his (many) flaws, Selebus clearly puts his soul into this game. There are reveals now that have clearly been planned out for years. And the characters just feel so. so. human. And when I go from LiL to playing literally any other game on this site, they all just feel so bland and one-dimensional in comparison. I just want a game that doesn't feel like an immediate downgrade. Something I can immerse myself in, with characters I'll genuinely care about. Something I'll actually think about after I'm done playing it.

It's going to be a month until the next update, and I really want another game to play while I'm waiting. Anyone have any suggestions?

In terms of VNs, LiL is inspired by Suba Hibi so that's the closest you'll get

Some other recommendations of games that people haven't mentioned, none of these would be on par with actual novels in terms of writing quality but they don't suffer from engrish, are entertaining as hell, and have fleshed-out stories that are not mere excuses for porn (although the games are certainly porn-heavy):
- Eternum: it's about a hyper-realistic VRMMO, really high production quality
- Ripples: imo the best execution of a certain sci-fi subgenre on this site
- Pale Carnations: hard to summarize - just read the synposis. it's S-tier in terms of how realistic the characters feel - they are very fleshed out
- Artemis: hard to explain without spoiling it but it's fantastic the dev clearly puts a ridiculous amount of effort into it

And some games that are just porn-focused fun, no grand plot or anything
- Twisted Memories: a man who lived a pathetic life dies and goes back in time to when he was a teen and maintain/develop the relationships he had neglected when he was younger (aka fucks everyone in a 100km radius xD but it's pretty legit)
- Stormside: you're given a position in a college as being an enforcer of this weird new program, the backstory is pretty dumb but it's basically an excuse to have complete control over the girls and e.g. you get to decide how to punish them, whether you are nice/mean, whether you honor your promises to them, etc. it's got nice branching paths (i.e. meaningful choices) and decent amount of consensual-sex-slave content

 

[Moonflare]

yeah I agree with Noob Gamer, Out of Touch is fairly mid imo in both writing and gameplay: it's too verbose, all the drama feels contrived, and the whole thing seems to be centered around the power of friendship


American Psycho is an excellent novel that scratches the exact same itch Suba Hibi is decent too if you want a VN


In terms of VNs, LiL is inspired by Suba Hibi so that's the closest you'll get

Some other recommendations of games that people haven't mentioned, none of these would be on par with actual novels in terms of writing quality but they don't suffer from engrish, are entertaining as hell, and have fleshed-out stores that are not mere excuses for porn (although the games are porn-heavy for sure):
- Eternum: it's about a hyper-realistic VRMMO, really high production quality
- Ripples: won't spoil the genre but it falls under sci-fi and it's the best execution of that genre on this site imo
- Pale Carnations: hard to summarize - just read the synposis. it's S tier in terms of how realistic the characters feel - they are very fleshed out
- Artemis: hard to explain without spoiling it but it's fantastic the dev clearly puts a ridiculous amount of effort into it

And some games that are just porn-focused fun, no grand plot or anything
- Twisted Memories: a man who lived a pathetic life dies and goes back in time to when he was a teen and builds up the relationships he had neglected when he was younger (aka fucks everyone in a 100km radius xD but it's pretty legit)
- Stormside: you're basically given a position in a college as being an enforcer of this weird new program, the backstory is pretty dumb but it's basically an excuse to have complete control over the girls and e.g. you get to decide how to punish them, whether you are nice/mean, whether you honor your promises to them, etc. it's got nice branching paths (i.e. meaningful choices) and decent amount of consensual-sex-slave content

stormside has one of the hottest sex scenes I've seen in a game, overall a lot of good sex scenes, but the one with the girl addicted to sex while her roomate is at the door is amazing.

 

[Martogor]

Spoiler: Tifa and Nami + Good Kids

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Unpopular opinion but i liked the Good kid songs as songs itselfs and in the game , but probably because my english it's not that good that i can hear it and read it at the same time, i just can concentrate in one lol, so i understand it could be distracting yeah.

He could be our true bro if he had complied with the request upon returning Prime

So about pareidolia

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maybe someone already say it or its too obvius to others but yeah xd

 

[lardtree90]

perfect pitch is really not a good recommendation except that it also has depressed mc + bunch of student girls. writing is just so bad compared to lil, not a single memorable character, not a single interesting event, I went through the first chapter without skipping and couldn't remember a single name of any girl, whereas I immediately remembered names of girls when I first read Lil.

Perfect Pitch is also not a good recommendation because it hasn't updated in over a year and there isn't much hope of that schedule changing.

 

[Levelpower]

Click my signature image, it's piss easy, download the file and throw it in the LiL/game folder. then when the game and save loads hit alt+m and search for 'pcurr'.

Thanks for the help man, really appreciate it

 

[Apollo259]

I'm not sure "Kyoto" actually breaks the time line. Why do people assume the "It's probably just Noriko trying to sneak in like she always does" line, has to be her spying on their sexual exploits, it could simply just be Noriko crawling around, trying to get in for standard baby curiosity/exploring and crawling around reasons.
It wouldn't be particularly strange if you say Ami is around a year younger, as an around 1 year old can start to sort of "walk" around and will definitely be crawling around fairly effectively by around that age. The sneaking in line could probably just a bit of a joke from Niki about Noriko always crawling around into places she shouldn't be or something like that. The stuff I think I remember Noriko saying about secretly watching Akira and Niki doing Things can easily happen later in the timeline.

So I don't see why this breaks It? unless I missed something someone has already posted.

Wait... I am dumb!

I realised after I typed this that you would have to subtract Sekai's pregnancy months off Noriko's age in that scenario, If they are 1 year apart. So I can see why it could slightly break the time line. But even then it's still somewhat feasible. Although you might have to lean heavily on the Noriko child prodigy stuff and decide that she might have been a bit ahead of the curve development wise.

Lets say for argument's sake, Sekai told Akira she was pregnant around the end of the 2nd month. (I guess you could go a bit later if you wanted.) If you go off the listed birthdays Niki and Ami are 1 month apart. Then you add 3 months for the approximate date of conception. Then 2 more for Sekai telling Akira (More if you want, 1 possibly 2 at the most I think.). You endup at 6-8 months. Google says baby can start crawling at around 7 months. Then say she is super child prodigy that started crawling around mid 5 or 6 months age. It still fits the timeline I think? Although perhaps it is a bit of a stretch.

 

[aramaug]

I'm not sure "Kyoto" actually breaks the time line. Why do people assume the "It's probably just Noriko trying to sneak in like she always does" line, has to be her spying on their sexual exploits, it could simply just be Noriko crawling around, trying to get in for standard baby curiosity/exploring and crawling around reasons.
It wouldn't be particularly strange if you say Ami is around a year younger, as an around 1 year old can start to sort of "walk" around and will definitely be crawling around fairly effectively by around that age. The sneaking in line could probably just a bit of a joke from Niki about Noriko always crawling around into places she shouldn't be or something like that. The stuff I think I remember Noriko saying about secretly watching Akira and Niki doing Things can easily happen later in the timeline.

So I don't see why this breaks It? unless I missed something someone has already posted.

Wait... I am dumb!

I realised after I typed this that you would have to subtract Sekai's pregnancy months off Noriko's age in that scenario, If they are 1 year apart. So I can see why it could slightly break the time line. But even then it's still somewhat feasible. Although you might have to lean heavily on the Noriko child prodigy stuff and decide that she might have been a bit ahead of the curve development wise.

Lets say for argument's sake, Sekai told Akira she was pregnant around the end of the 2nd month. (I guess you could go a bit later if you wanted.) If you go off the listed birthdays Niki and Ami are 1 month apart. Then you add 3 months for the approximate date of conception. Then 2 more for Sekai telling Akira (More if you want, 1 possibly 2 at the most I think.). You endup at 6-8 months. Google says baby can start crawling at around 7 months. Then say she is super child prodigy that started crawling around mid 5 or 6 months age. It still fits the timeline I think? Although perhaps it is a bit of a stretch.

The most obvious problem is when you compare it to Spotless Mind. In Kyoto, Akira has been turning down sex for a year. Spotless Mind is the first time they kissed, so it must happen at least a year earlier - plus, they have older character models in Kyoto. And yet, in Spotless Mind Noriko is old enough to be trying to sit in Akira's lap.

I'd also say that even if Noriko has recently started crawling by the time of Kyoto, there's no way her parents are letting her crawl around the house unsupervised. Especially since Niki's bedroom is on the second floor (she talks about going downstairs for dinner). And I don't think you'd characterize a crawling baby as trying to "sneak in" to a room with a closed door, even as a joke.

 

[Moonflare]

I'm not sure "Kyoto" actually breaks the time line. Why do people assume the "It's probably just Noriko trying to sneak in like she always does" line, has to be her spying on their sexual exploits, it could simply just be Noriko crawling around, trying to get in for standard baby curiosity/exploring and crawling around reasons.
It wouldn't be particularly strange if you say Ami is around a year younger, as an around 1 year old can start to sort of "walk" around and will definitely be crawling around fairly effectively by around that age. The sneaking in line could probably just a bit of a joke from Niki about Noriko always crawling around into places she shouldn't be or something like that. The stuff I think I remember Noriko saying about secretly watching Akira and Niki doing Things can easily happen later in the timeline.

So I don't see why this breaks It? unless I missed something someone has already posted.

Wait... I am dumb!

I realised after I typed this that you would have to subtract Sekai's pregnancy months off Noriko's age in that scenario, If they are 1 year apart. So I can see why it could slightly break the time line. But even then it's still somewhat feasible. Although you might have to lean heavily on the Noriko child prodigy stuff and decide that she might have been a bit ahead of the curve development wise.

Lets say for argument's sake, Sekai told Akira she was pregnant around the end of the 2nd month. (I guess you could go a bit later if you wanted.) If you go off the listed birthdays Niki and Ami are 1 month apart. Then you add 3 months for the approximate date of conception. Then 2 more for Sekai telling Akira (More if you want, 1 possibly 2 at the most I think.). You endup at 6-8 months. Google says baby can start crawling at around 7 months. Then say she is super child prodigy that started crawling around mid 5 or 6 months age. It still fits the timeline I think? Although perhaps it is a bit of a stretch.

Echoing what aramaug said, there have been a lot of posts about this already. But in a few words: Noriko's age isn't a matter about a toddler being able to sneak in or not, but that the whole thing makes no sense.

In spotless mind she was old enough to be considered a kid, and Kyoto takes place after it. Even if we assume she was just born in spotless mind, it's already bordering on impossibility for her to be in the same class as Ami.

If we take what would be probable, both from her being classified as a kid, as she herself saying she imprinted on Akira when she was 3 - then the events of Spotless Mind would make her 3, she'd be at least 4 during kyoto, which would make her almost 5 years older than Ami.

Noriko would be a 20 year old, which would make her an actual Imani pretending to be a freshman in highschool.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

USER2/Wires is the one who made Akira ‘remember’ the memory with Niki in “Spotless Mind”, correct?

Well, what if the conversation we see and Akira sees during that scene isn’t how the conversation actually played out?

We know specific facts about that night, that Niki herself confirmed in “Me Without You”:

- They were watching anime together
- They were upstairs in Niki’s room
- It was the night of their first kiss

Beyond these three things in particular, is it at all possible that what we’re seeing is a false memory planted into Akira’s head by USER2? Who’s to say Noriko was mentioned at all if she wasn’t meant to be there in their actual conversation? (Not born yet)

I don’t think we have enough information at this current time to really make an accurate assessment on it, so to be honest, it isn’t worth the strain until we get more hints in future updates.

 

[Apollo259]

The most obvious problem is when you compare it to Spotless Mind. In Kyoto, Akira has been turning down sex for a year. Spotless Mind is the first time they kissed, so it must happen at least a year earlier - plus, they have older character models in Kyoto. And yet, in Spotless Mind Noriko is old enough to be trying to sit in Akira's lap.

I'd also say that even if Noriko has recently started crawling by the time of Kyoto, there's no way her parents are letting her crawl around the house unsupervised. Especially since Niki's bedroom is on the second floor (she talks about going downstairs for dinner). And I don't think you'd characterize a crawling baby as trying to "sneak in" to a room with a closed door, even as a joke.

I don't remember them kissing in spotless mind. I watched the replay and did not see it, maybe it cuts off early and I'm completely wrong idk. Also Akira says "Why would I recall something so small and insignificant at the end of Spotless mind.
The Character models look the same to me. The difference just seems to be casual vs more formal clothes because of Christmas? So I don't see why Spotless mind cant happen after Kyoto?

Edit: Apparently the kiss is stated to have happened then in a different event. I guess I'm wrong then.

 

[Moonflare]

USER2/Wires is the one who made Akira ‘remember’ the memory with Niki in “Spotless Mind”, correct?

Well, what if the conversation we see and Akira sees during that scene isn’t how the conversation actually played out?

We know specific facts about that night, that Niki herself confirmed in “Me Without You”:

- They were watching anime together
- They were upstairs in Niki’s room
- It was the night of their first kiss

Beyond these three things in particular, is it at all possible that what we’re seeing is a false memory planted into Akira’s head by USER2? Who’s to say Noriko was mentioned at all if she wasn’t meant to be there in their actual conversation?

I don’t think we have enough information at this current time to really make an accurate assessment on it, so to be honest, it isn’t worth the strain until we get more hints in future updates.

If there was tampering, for sure there wasn't on the fact that Noriko was downstairs. It would have to be some next level masterplan to include little bits about Noriko on these events just to eventually be like "yeah, no, Niki never had a sister"

Edit: just when you guys thought Noriko couldn't get more pitiful, it's not even that she was always in Niki's shadow, but that she wasn't even there... Also, what rivals, the girl that shouldn't exist vs the girl that never existed.

Also also, Akira just casually imagining both Maya and Noriko arguing during his tutoring lessons, when really just Maya was there hella pissed that she literally gave up on being a god to be with him and this dude keeps talking to some imaginary pink haired slut

 

[Moonflare]

I don't remember them kissing in spotless mind. I watched the replay and did not see it, maybe it cuts off early and I'm completely wrong idk. Also Akira says "Why would I recall something so small and insignificant at the end of Spotless mind.
The Character models look the same to me. The difference just seems to be casual vs more formal clothes because of Christmas? So I don't see why Spotless mind cant happen after Kyoto?

[...] at this point I really suggest you read our discussion on it a few pages back cause we're really just repeating the same things again to you.

We aren't even bringing up character models because we're trying to stick to what is said, rather than something that could be affected by the engine. But if you were to compare, Kyoto's models are older, you can see it in Akira's longer hair. Also from the fact that Sekai says he already looks like a man, and in spotless mind they're clearly kids.

Also it's not that spotless mind is cut off, but rather that you're not watching the following event in which Niki explains what the memory was, as zuko recalls: "Me without you", in which Niki meets him at the hotel lobby.

 

[Apollo259]

[...] at this point I really suggest you read our discussion on it a few pages back cause we're really just repeating the same things again to you.

We aren't even bringing up character models because we're trying to stick to what is said, rather than something that could be affected by the engine. But if you were to compare, Kyoto's models are older, you can see it in Akira's longer hair. Also from the fact that Sekai says he already looks like a man, and in spotless mind they're clearly kids.

Also it's not that spotless mind is cut off, but rather that you're not watching the following event in which Niki explains what the memory was, as zuko recalls: "Me without you", in which Niki meets him at the hotel lobby.

Yea I noticed after I posted that. I must have missed some of the specifics when skimming past the random arguments people were having.

Someone give me a dunce hat.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

If there was tampering, for sure there wasn't on the fact that Noriko was downstairs. It would have to be some next level masterplan to include little bits about Noriko on these events just to eventually be like "yeah, no, Niki never had a sister"

Yeah man, I know it’s a reach. But to be fair, none of us have much to work with.

I’m personally gonna wait and see if we get more insight on this timeline in a future update, but I do still wonder one thing:

Why did USER2 allow Akira to see that memory? Whether it’s false or completely genuine? What are his intentions with that? Is it merely to get Akira to trust him maybe?

Edit: By the way, I wasn’t implying Noriko doesn’t exist at all. Just that she wasn’t born yet at the time of Spotless Mind.

 

[Moonflare]

Yeah man, I know it’s a reach. But to be fair, none of us have much to work with.

I’m personally gonna wait and see if we get more insight on this timeline in a future update, but I do still wonder one thing:

Why did USER2 allow Akira to see that memory? Whether it’s false or completely genuine? What are his intentions with that? Is it merely to get Akira to trust him maybe?

Edit: By the way, I wasn’t implying Noriko doesn’t exist at all. Just that she wasn’t born yet at the time of Spotless Mind.

I mean, if the ultimate goal is to ride around in Akira's body, Wires is the only one going about it the right way. Dishing out favors, asking for nothing in return, always asking for permission...

It's hard to imagine HOPE ever going into Akira's mind and it not being a hostile takeover. It's just, I don't really think that's the goal... and furthermore, what even are the requirements? Can they go inside Kaori because Sekai was fucked up enough in the head through their meddling? Or can they go because Sekai allows it/entered an understanding with them in order to also be hosted by Kaori?

Just grooming people to serve as hosts for sure can't be the whole picture as there are so many things that have nothing to do with it.

Edit: Additionally, I get the feeling that Akira could have pushed Pareidolia out any moment he wanted. Pareidolia kind of hints at this when he says that he had to serve a function that Akira unconsciously asked for. The moment Akira solved his own issues, Pareidolia'd be out, possibly kind of the same for HOPE and Yasu.

Which btw is insane to me, because our true bro Pareidolia tells Akira many times how to stop needing him. "accept yourself" and stuff, well, if he did, wouldn't Pareidolia just be bereft of function? He literally tells Akira during his reset that he will end up like his father, and during this reset he doubles down saying that he will end up like Kaori, and that it's too late to revert it now. He's been telling Akira a lot of stuff that works against his interests (?) since the start.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Which btw is insane to me, because our true bro Pareidolia tells Akira many times how to stop needing him. "accept yourself" and stuff, well, if he did, wouldn't Pareidolia just be bereft of function? He literally tells Akira during his reset that he will end up like his father, and during this reset he doubles down saying that he will end up like Kaori, and that it's too late to revert it now. He's been telling Akira a lot of stuff that works against his interests (?) since the start.

Yeah…

Pareidolia = Akira’s coping device, quite honestly.

That’s why I have a feeling that, depending on how Part 2 of the Reset goes, the ‘senseisad’ variable will finally be turned off after being introduced way back in 0.36. Pareidolia’s gone. Akira has no need of him anymore. Or at least, he doesn’t need to rely on him as heavily.

That begs another question, though: who tf did Pareidolia sacrifice himself to? What other entity is taking his place as the god of Spring? Because this has never happened in the game before.

Is it Sekai’s Ghost? It seems almost too easy, right? But like… who else makes sense? Especially with the Cherry Blossom references linked directly to Sekai (and Spring) being foreshadowed ever since Chapter 1?

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[Bingoogus]

Someone give me a dunce hat.

Welcome brother!