Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

I remember seeing a similiar discussion like this on the LiL discord where one guy got banned for saying that it was more immortal having sex with Sara than it was with Kirin because althought Kirin was underage, she wanted it, but with Sara you were emotionally manipulating her making her think you care for her and will eventually marry her when you're not. Most of the people argued that situation didn't matter if she was under the legal age of consent it will always be worse.

What is your opinion? is it more immortal to fuck Kirin or Sara?

One is completely fine with it but is young, the other is being misled but is an adult.

Immoral for whom? Cause, in general, if you were to equate general morality to socially agreed laws, then there isn't really a question there. Kirin would be considered incapable of making that decision because of her age.

If it is Akira's morality, I think Sara would be okay and Kirin not (he generally comments on how what he's doing with all his students is wrong). I don't really understand the being led angle, Sara is an adult that is single and consensually engaging in a sexual relationship. When she suggests they become a family he's not even opposed to considering it.

In a perfect world maybe adults would only interact romantically with people that are on the same page as them, but in my eyes both of these people are broken and using the other to cope with things they can't face.

That Akira is hiding what he's doing behind Sara's back is fucked, especially with her daughter, but if we were to consider that, then he's pretty much doing this to almost everyone in different degrees, Sara's not special in that regard.

 

[Xiondingens]

I remember seeing a similiar discussion like this on the LiL discord where one guy got banned for saying that it was more immortal having sex with Sara than it was with Kirin because althought Kirin was underage, she wanted it, but with Sara you were emotionally manipulating her making her think you care for her and will eventually marry her when you're not. Most of the people argued that situation didn't matter if she was under the legal age of consent it will always be worse.

What is your opinion? is it more immortal to fuck Kirin or Sara?

One is completely fine with it but is young, the other is being misled but is an adult.

I bet people get banned from the LiL dicord every day for totally stupid reasons. So i am not even surprised.

I think people have a point, none of the two options are morally good. But when we look at how confused kirin is about her own feelings, especially that event -dont remember the name- where she and he were walking near a river or something and she i think did say something about running away with her or so, then i think it becomes quite obvious how young and immature she is. I mean it hasnt come up lately that i could remember, but when i made my list about how many of the girls/women had experienced looses/abandonment/neglect, i did remember again that her parents dont care about her as much as she would need.

So basically i think he already did manipulate her by just been there. Just been a man in her life that gave her some attention was enough to totally bind her young, neglect, hormon flooded mind to him, he should have known better, but he didnt do anything to prevent this. So in this specific case i would say that, yes, Kirin is worse, but it doesnt makes Sara any good imo. Because it is actually a similar story, another man she can have in her life to fill this teacher formed hole in her heart that she had since the teacher that fucked her in her youth left her.

And now i would like to read your thoughts on the matter.

 

[Breadtaker]

I remember seeing a similiar discussion like this on the LiL discord where one guy got banned for saying that it was more immortal having sex with Sara than it was with Kirin because althought Kirin was underage, she wanted it, but with Sara you were emotionally manipulating her making her think you care for her and will eventually marry her when you're not. Most of the people argued that situation didn't matter if she was under the legal age of consent it will always be worse.

What is your opinion? is it more immortal to fuck Kirin or Sara?

One is completely fine with it but is young, the other is being misled but is an adult.

I agree with Moonflare's take that Sara isn't totally being misled as she seems to know they're not official. Maybe she is being led on a little but they're definitely not at the state where you could call it cheating or anything. Any expectations Sara has comes from herself. It still makes Sensei an asshole but shes not entitled to anything yet.

That aside, I don't like the angle of the question itself. Comparing them means that one is better than the other. Using any positive adjective just feels wrong when they're both just different amounts of bad. Arguing about that difference will only lead to softening criticisms that deserve to be harsh.

 

[Xiondingens]

That aside, I don't like the angle of the question itself. Comparing them means that one is better than the other. Using any positive adjective just feels wrong when they're both just different amounts of bad. Arguing about that difference will only lead to softening criticisms that deserve to be harsh.

Yeah, pretty sure who ever did ask that question in the discord did it in bad faith.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

I bet people get banned from the LiL dicord every day for totally stupid reasons. So i am not even surprised.

I think people have a point, none of the two options are morally good. But when we look at how confused kirin is about her own feelings, especially that event -dont remember the name- where she and he were walking near a river or something and she i think did say something about running away with her or so, then i think it becomes quite obvious how young and immature she is. I mean it hasnt come up lately that i could remember, but when i made my list about how many of the girls/women had experienced looses/abandonment/neglect, i did remember again that her parents dont care about her as much as she would need.

So basically i think he already did manipulate her by just been there. Just been a man in her life that gave her some attention was enough to totally bind her young, neglect, hormon flooded mind to him, he should have known better, but he didnt do anything to prevent this. So in this specific case i would say that, yes, Kirin is worse, but it doesnt makes Sara any good imo. Because it is actually a similar story, another man she can have in her life to fill this teacher formed hole in her heart that she had since the teacher that fucked her in her youth left her.

And now i would like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Whilst I do believe plaping Sara is done in a more conscious bad faith, she had a whole 30+ years and a previous, similiar bad experience already happen to her. If you've been alive this long and are still willing to get misled maybe it's your fault, but is it really her fault for being naive? is being naive a bad quality? I think being naive derives from purity which is a good character trait, it means you are deep down a good person which really shows in 0.40 how she wants to mommy Ami not out of a manipulative maneuver to get brownie points for Sensei, but because she genuinely wants to care for her.
Akira is taking advantage of her good heart and desire to have a father for her daughter.

As for Kirin, she hasn't had time to learn about life experiences. No matter how mature or emotionally tough you think you are, it's not enough time to really develop a definite vision. You might claim that she will regret having plapped with Sensei later, but so will Sara. Does Kirin get a pass for being younger even though (in my opinion) she is more manipulative and emotionally mature than Sara?

Yes she does, because she hadn't had the time to learn. The more I think about it the more fucked up it seems to plap Sara when you keep breaking down the layers, and still I can't bring myself to say that it's not worse than Plapping Kirin but I do understand where this vision comes from. Sara had the time, if she is still emotionally immature then it's her fault.

 

[Xiondingens]

Sara had the time, if she is still emotionally immature then it's her fault.

I dont know, people become the people they are for reasons, not because they choose to. Implying it is anyones own fault for who they became always feels off for me. Can we not instead blame Sel for her emotionally immatureness?

 

[Nadekai]

Who really is Sekai? Like she can't be normal...

 

[Moonflare]

Who really is Sekai? Like she can't be normal...

tbf few adults in this game are normal. but if you mean the original alive Sekai, she was a deeply malevolent predator, and possibly broken person (we don't know her past or general life outside of Akira yet). The ghost/angel/god/something current Sekai we have no idea.

I currently debate with myself if it would be more interesting to find out that Sekai was a victim at one point too, or that she really just was this naturally fucked up individual. Hoping we find out one day.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

I currently debate with myself if it would be more interesting to find out that Sekai was a victim at one point too, or that she really just was this naturally fucked up individual. Hoping we find out one day.

I believe that Sekai was a victim as well at one point. We don’t have evidence yet to support this, but I just have a feeling. Abuse is often part of a tragic cycle that is passed down from generation to generation, until someone is finally brave and strong enough to break out of its oppressive chains.

“It’s all part of a cycle.” That’s been quoted in the game on numerous occasions, right? Maybe there’s more to that than meets the eye. Maybe it represents not the cycle of the resets, but the cycle of abuse.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I believe that Sekai was a victim as well at one point. We don’t have evidence yet to support this, but I just have a feeling. Abuse is often part of a tragic cycle that is passed down from generation to generation, until someone is finally brave and strong enough to break out of its oppressive chains.

Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes, they're just a sociopath.

But I do suspect that we'll find that she was abused, likely by a religious figure, and that trauma will likely help explain why so much of the fuckery in this game is couched in divine terms.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

tbf few adults in this game are normal. but if you mean the original alive Sekai, she was a deeply malevolent predator, and possibly broken person (we don't know her past or general life outside of Akira yet). The ghost/angel/god/something current Sekai we have no idea.

I currently debate with myself if it would be more interesting to find out that Sekai was a victim at one point too, or that she really just was this naturally fucked up individual. Hoping we find out one day.

I feel like Sekai is just part of Akira's imagination

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

I feel like Sekai is just part of Akira's imagination

Well, then Ami his schizo daughter/niece ghost as well xd

But I understand what you mean, considering the event in which Akira fingered Sana he was talking with Sekai right before this, but Sana didn't see anyone. YET, we know Sana can see supernatural shit, so it is likely Sekai is really just part of his broken mind.

 

[Moonflare]

But I understand what you mean, considering the event in which Akira fingered Sana he was talking with Sekai right before this, but Sana didn't see anyone. YET, we know Sana can see supernatural shit, so it is likely Sekai is really just part of his broken mind.

That's just one Sekai though. There's the Sekai with Kaori, there's the Sekai Yasu meets, the Sekai that possesses Makoto and Futaba to the threesome, possibly the Sekai that talks to Ami, HOPE saying he can bring back a Sekai Akira can make pregnant, there's the many different mentions of "the world itself" talking to people...

I have seen more to suggest that Sekai exists than that she doesn't. But if there is a middle ground, maybe it is that something exists, and that Akira perceives it as Sekai? I haven't reached the second reset yet in my replay, but so far a lot seem to suggest that Akira is way more in control of things than I had thought, so maybe he can influence the others too (withholding that one for now cause it's clashing from what I remember about current developments).

 

[DeSkel15]

tbf few adults in this game are normal. but if you mean the original alive Sekai, she was a deeply malevolent predator, and possibly broken person (we don't know her past or general life outside of Akira yet). The ghost/angel/god/something current Sekai we have no idea.

I currently debate with myself if it would be more interesting to find out that Sekai was a victim at one point too, or that she really just was this naturally fucked up individual. Hoping we find out one day.

It seems like Sekai was just unable to find happiness by normal means:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Until she fell for Sensei, and eventually had Ami. They seemed to make her happy.

The Sekai(s) roaming around, though, are another story. They may be like Nao and possibly sadistic:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

At least one seems to care about Sensei and Ami, though. Albeit, they may have also murdered Yumi, and some plants after they talked shit about Nao-chan.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Well, then Ami his schizo daughter/niece ghost as well xd

But I understand what you mean, considering the event in which Akira fingered Sana he was talking with Sekai right before this, but Sana didn't see anyone. YET, we know Sana can see supernatural shit, so it is likely Sekai is really just part of his broken mind.

I was about to write that event as evidence and you beat me to it. I think I still need to clarify a bit what I meant.

Sekai was a real person that existed, she is the one who abused Akira and likely made him become the same as her, then she died.

The Sekai that Akira keeps seeing are just hallucinations of his broken mind, he is so far gone that he is probably a schizophrenic as well.
It is already established that if the world is fucked and if there is something supernatural going on, everyone can see it. Maya and Ayane saw the world being distorted which means it's true. Even Yumi and Tsuneyo saw the world being reset before their mind was wiped which means that everyone can see if something supernatural is happening before their eyes.
But in the nurse's room, when Sekai was talking to Sensei, Sana couldn't see her, she just saw Akira talking to himself, and this is despite Sana also hearing things and having similiar problems as Akira does.

Ghost Sekai is just a part of a sick man's mind, and it makes sense if the gods can see her too because they can see inside Akira's mind as well. Maybe she was implanted there by one of the gods, maybe not, but she isn't real.

Regarding the Sekais that appear in front of others that are not Sensei, they are probably doppelgangers taking on the form of the person that can fuck the most with Akira, but SEKAI herself is long dead.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Regarding the Sekais that appear in front of others that are not Sensei, they are probably doppelgangers taking on the form of the person that can fuck the most with Akira, but SEKAI herself is long dead.

Except the Sekai that appeared in front of Yasu wasn't seen or heard by Yasu, she only saw the stuffed rabbit Sekai was carrying, and Akira wasn't in that scene to see it.

 

[Moonflare]

It is already established that if the world is fucked and if there is something supernatural going on, everyone can see it. Maya and Ayane saw the world being distorted which means it's true. Even Yumi and Tsuneyo saw the world being reset before their mind was wiped which means that everyone can see if something supernatural is happening before their eyes.
But in the nurse's room, when Sekai was talking to Sensei, Sana couldn't see her, she just saw Akira talking to himself, and this is despite Sana also hearing things and having similiar problems as Akira does.

I think there is plenty of evidence against such a clear-cut answer. Perception is one of the most recurring themes of the supernatural events. Maya says everyone sees things in different ways, and it has been shown that even if supernatural things are happening, people can see them in different ways. In the first part of the game, Yumi saves Akira from stepping into the static, and she certainly wasn't seeing any static. When he first sees Yasu, she's seeing him with someone that he isn't capable of seeing. There's an event where Kaori ignores Maya so hard it borders on her not seeing Maya at all. After her first confession, Rin starts hearing the clocks (presumably from the room with the clocks) and starts dreaming about multiple cycles, but instead of being on Akira's perspective, it's with hers and she keeps resetting until she finds a world where Chika loves her (and no one can hear or dream these things but her).

We could spend a long time listing randomly picked events where all sorts of characters see or perceive things different from how the others see them. What I mean by that is: Simply stating that because only Akira sees a specific supernatural event one way, and others see it in a different way (or at all), should not be enough to conclude that it isn't happening.

I think a more sensible answer is that we can't say for certain yet.

 

[derekthered56]

Didn't Sekai speak to Ami once, with Ami feeling her but not hearing or seeing her? If that was just a doppleganger and not the original then they are really deep in character.

Also everything Moonflare said.

 

[Yarazin]

... he's Arakawa, her coworker, friend, closing to obssession, and who knows what else soon (and calling him Arakawa also links it to Sekai and Ami).

... finish by saying that I'm looking forward for when Wakana starts calling him Akira (if ever).

I still don't get why he didn't ask her to call him Akira after the awesome dinner they shared.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

From the event "Try. Try. Try." we can see that not all that is paranormal can be seen by everyone: