- May 27, 2020
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- Aug 27, 2022
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- Oct 1, 2023
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What do you mean you'd rather chinami die? I'd let her play with my toy
- Oct 1, 2023
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I think you're gonna be delighted to know that Makoto is gonna cosplay as... Makoto haha very original
- Sep 5, 2020
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Not sure if joking, but let's go down that rabbit hole.
The Persona series has been cited by Selebus as an influence on the game. For anyone who was unaware, the modern Persona games feature high school students in their second year going through some form of rite of passage into adulthood. They use the Tarot Arcana to symbolize the stages of passage from the innocence of youth (The Fool) to the maturity of adulthood, and each of the people the The Fool meets on his journey symbolizes a step on that passage. There are usually 20 Arcana in the initial version of the game, though the enhanced release may add some additional Arcana. But 20 Arcana for 20 Main Girls may be relevant.
Persona 3 is a game about accepting your own mortality. Persona 4 is a story about overcoming your insecurities. Persona 5 is a game about moving past your personal trauma -- which seems particularly appropriate for LiL.
The game takes place in both the "normal" and "shadow" world, though the nature of the shadow world varies by game. In 3, the shadow world is a localized distortion centered around a single location that only exists in a period of time that most cannot percieve (the 25th hour), in 4, it is a "TV Realm" literally entered by passing through a TV screen (note: thsi game came out before TVs got as large as they are today, and finding a TV large enough to fit a person through was still a bit of a challenge), and in 5 the shadow world is the world of cognition-- or Perception, but as it exists in a collective sense.
When a character is in the shadow world, they might awaken a Persona -- a spiritual being (drawn from religion or literature, usually) who grants them incredible power. at this moment, their outfit changes to reflect their awakened state. Ayane is wearing the costume of Ann Takamaki, a model who is being sexually harassed by a teacher at her school. Her refusal of his advances causes the teacher to rape her best friend, who then tries to kill herself by jumping off the roof of the school. Ann's arc is driven by her sense of guilt towards what happens to her friend, her dealing with rumors (spread by the teacher) that she was sleeping with said teacher, and a desire to not be seen as just a model anymore.
A whole lot of that is really, REALLY on the nose.
Ann is the Lover Arcana, which seems appropriate for Ayane as well.
Other characters in the game include:
Futaba Sakura, a redheaded Otaku recluse who blames herself for her mother's death (Molly?). She is the Hermit Arcana, which is less appropriate for Molly (Yumi would be a better candidate)
Makoto Niijima, a studious Student Council President who blames herself for not seeing what was happening at her school sooner. Her Arcana is Priestess, which doesn't feel like a good fit for our Makoto (Noriko is a better fit), but the name and role overlapping likely isn't coincidence.
Haru Nokumura, an heiress who is slated to be married to the son of a company executive who is also an abusive prick, who feels abandoned by her father (Touka). Her Arcana is Empress, which also fits Touka (one of the first things listed on the Megami Tensei wiki for Empress is that it's associated with mothers, and we know how Akira feels about Touka)
Kinda just punching the nose over and over again, honestly.
I've known that Sel has cited Persona as an influence for some time, but I hadn't actually thought that much about LiL in terms of Persona or the Arcana.
I couldn't find it, so I need to ask, why doesn't this game show up on the latest updates when it updates? I have to remember to come manually check it every month or so.
- Mar 15, 2023
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Because it's author is a dick. Also, come here tomorrow, after 12:00 PM CT (will probably be shipped earlier starting from 10:00 AM CT)
- Aug 23, 2023
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Chinami dies = characters take sanity damage and she comes back anyway.What do you mean you'd rather chinami die? I'd let her play with my toy
Chinami "plays" = I take sanity damage.
Very interesting, as I'm not versed in the Persona universe. Himawari/Ayane seem to parallel that dynamic the most out of all of them. Unsure if the shadow world would be the city itself or the other dimensions they slip into sometimes though. I guess it could be both since it's just an inspiration.
- Nov 18, 2023
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Okay Ami appreciation post for her birthday
To me, Ami is without question the most exciting character in the game. Sometimes endearing and wholesome, other times manipulative and hostile. She's anything but mild. Anticipating how she will leverage her position and her innate social intelligence puts every scene with her on edge. Her mixed signals make you regularly reevaluate how smart, how caring, how callous, how honest, how crazy she really is.
But imo, what really sets Ami apart from typical crazy characters is that she is understandable. I feel like I get it. It's still hard to read her intentions but why she feels this way makes sense.
The obvious starting point is Ami losing her parents in a traumatic way. But that's only the start. Lost in her grief, she found in Sensei not just companionship in a person who shares her pain but a purpose. Taking care of Sensei gave her a reason to get on her feet and a reason to care about life in general. It should have been the other way around. It should be sensei taking care of her and teaching her to find reasons to live outside of their household. But that never happened and Ami lashed her entire reason for living to Sensei.
And then we get the romantic feelings. The mysterious Sensei love virus that infects everyone. After saving Sensei, building him back up, and years of fulfilling the traditional duties of a house wife, you can't blame Ami for feeling somewhat entitled to that role. It's not just what she thinks of as her future, it's her life as she knows it.
The taboo nature of that relationship immediately pits Ami versus the world. She knows her fantasy is wrong and her only recourse is to dismiss the viewpoint of everyone else. Build her own definition of right. Anyone who goes against that is an obstacle. And this is before the other girls are even proper rivals.
Which of course is what happens. Everyone wants sensei and that jeopardizes her future, her present, and her reason for living. She's desperate to fend them off and that makes her do crazy things. She's aware she seems insane which puts her in this awkward spot between "I need to ease up and not suffocate Sensei" and "the world already doesn't accept/understand me. I need to fight against that."
From all directions people are encroaching on her life while dismissing her as immoral and delusional. Under these circumstances you would expect a person to break. In many ways she already has. However, Ami is conniving and smart. I believe it is that wit that gives her a fighting chance and the confidence to keep going.
In spite of all of this, when Ami has the freedom to lower her defense and be herself, she's a really kind and compassionate person. You see that a lot towards the beginning of the game. Those opportunities present themselves less and less as the story progresses.
Lastly, I want to take a moment to recognize her talent for poetry. My life With You is one of my favorite scenes. I'm no poet, nor am I sensei but I felt so proud of her after that event. The poem was genuinely good and seeing how nervous she was as she poured her heart into it was sweet.
I know none of this is probably revelatory. I just like gushing. Thanks for reading.
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But imo, what really sets Ami apart from typical crazy characters is that she is understandable. I feel like I get it. It's still hard to read her intentions but why she feels this way makes sense.
The obvious starting point is Ami losing her parents in a traumatic way. But that's only the start. Lost in her grief, she found in Sensei not just companionship in a person who shares her pain but a purpose. Taking care of Sensei gave her a reason to get on her feet and a reason to care about life in general. It should have been the other way around. It should be sensei taking care of her and teaching her to find reasons to live outside of their household. But that never happened and Ami lashed her entire reason for living to Sensei.
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The taboo nature of that relationship immediately pits Ami versus the world. She knows her fantasy is wrong and her only recourse is to dismiss the viewpoint of everyone else. Build her own definition of right. Anyone who goes against that is an obstacle. And this is before the other girls are even proper rivals.
Which of course is what happens. Everyone wants sensei and that jeopardizes her future, her present, and her reason for living. She's desperate to fend them off and that makes her do crazy things. She's aware she seems insane which puts her in this awkward spot between "I need to ease up and not suffocate Sensei" and "the world already doesn't accept/understand me. I need to fight against that."
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In spite of all of this, when Ami has the freedom to lower her defense and be herself, she's a really kind and compassionate person. You see that a lot towards the beginning of the game. Those opportunities present themselves less and less as the story progresses.
Lastly, I want to take a moment to recognize her talent for poetry. My life With You is one of my favorite scenes. I'm no poet, nor am I sensei but I felt so proud of her after that event. The poem was genuinely good and seeing how nervous she was as she poured her heart into it was sweet.
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- Jun 9, 2020
- 27
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seeing the amount of stuff i missed or didn't understand after reading some messages and theories here makes me realise that even though i spent 260 hours to go through the entire game up to v0.42, i may as well re-read the entirety of it because there's just so much hidden stuff
or i'm just dumb and it's a me issue (also thanks for all the passionate users here y'all are great)
or i'm just dumb and it's a me issue (also thanks for all the passionate users here y'all are great)
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This made me want to play persona games, but 100+ hours per game still scares me.
- Jun 28, 2019
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Here's an idle thought on the subject of potential Sekai surnames: how about Tsukioka? As in, she would have been the sister of Tomonori.
- I think it was Tsukasa who implied that Tomonori was an only child, but how likely is it that his parents wouldn't have had a failsafe like Tsukasa is for Touka? Maybe her existence was just hidden from the kids since she was estranged from the family.
- Whether she was the heir or the failsafe (not sure on respective ages), Sekai would absolutely rebel against the rigid upbringing and expectations of continuing family tradition that the Tsukiokas emphasize.
- She doesn't look like Touka/Tsukasa, but they get their looks from Tsubasa so for all we know Tomonori could be a redhead.
- The Tsukioka manor sakura tree clearly has some connection to Sekai, since she appears with it in Mother's Milk and "Ami" is in front of it in Rain King.
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- Sensei sees Touka as Sekai, probably because they're both mother figures that he wants to fuck, but maybe there's a deeper connection.
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- Sekai's name starts with the letter T, which definitely stands for something other than Teacher.
You know, Shiori Shiawase has a nice ring to it.
- Aug 23, 2023
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I like that theory a lot. It explains the tree, the running from her family, why Sekai would have been buried in the mansion (or maybe Sekai's mother? can't quite recall the ghost story), her letter T (with teacher being a smokescreen), her name not being alliterative as she's not a part of the simulation, and plus, Akira would be soon having sex with his niece again (Touka)Here's an idle thought on the subject of potential Sekai surnames: how about Tsukioka? As in, she would have been the sister of Tomonori.
- I think it was Tsukasa who implied that Tomonori was an only child, but how likely is it that his parents wouldn't have had a failsafe like Tsukasa is for Touka? Maybe her existence was just hidden from the kids since she was estranged from the family.
- Whether she was the heir or the failsafe (not sure on respective ages), Sekai would absolutely rebel against the rigid upbringing and expectations of continuing family tradition that the Tsukiokas emphasize.
- She doesn't look like Touka/Tsukasa, but they get their looks from Tsubasa so for all we know Tomonori could be a redhead.
- The Tsukioka manor sakura tree clearly has some connection to Sekai, since she appears with it in Mother's Milk and "Ami" is in front of it in Rain King.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.- Sensei sees Touka as Sekai, probably because they're both mother figures that he wants to fuck, but maybe there's a deeper connection.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.- Sekai's name starts with the letter T, which definitely stands for something other than Teacher.
You know, Shiori Shiawase has a nice ring to it.
Would Touka's father be unaware of the Arakawas though? Even if she's distanced from her family (or rather because of it) they'd still keep tabs on her and, most importantly, on her daughter. Even if they assume Ami is Nozomu's daughter, she'd still be a Tsukioka in blood. It would be inconceivable that Akira would have to rescue Ami from adoption from a random family if she's a Tsukioka, as they'd adopt her instead. And if they tried, Akira/Ami would remember it.
The one issue with this theory is that grandma's house has to default to being Saki instead of Sekai's mom. And why would Ami refer to it being "grandma's house" to Akira if he lived there? Akira was surely not living alone in the old district when Ami was born, Saki would have been there (Edit: actually, where was Saki as Nozomu died? she must have been dead already, otherwise she'd adopt Ami. And if she died so early in Ami's life, who's the grandma she speaks of? Interesting, didn't think about that).
Tsukioka Sekai and Shiawase Shiori seems like an elegant theory regardless. Good job.
Edit: I also think there's a possibility that Tsubasa's husband was the spare, and Sekai was the older sister.
Edit2: We need some speculation on the timeline of Saki's death, who was living with Akira where and to what point in the timeline. Potentially, this might reveal a bizarre family dynamic in which Nozomu and Sekai were acting as Akira's parents during his late teenage years.
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- Mar 15, 2023
- 1,052
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This is a good one. Despite being a bit of uncalled, it actually makes Tsukioas responsible to most of the stuff, which is belivable enough.Here's an idle thought on the subject of potential Sekai surnames: how about Tsukioka? As in, she would have been the sister of Tomonori.
- I think it was Tsukasa who implied that Tomonori was an only child, but how likely is it that his parents wouldn't have had a failsafe like Tsukasa is for Touka? Maybe her existence was just hidden from the kids since she was estranged from the family.
- Whether she was the heir or the failsafe (not sure on respective ages), Sekai would absolutely rebel against the rigid upbringing and expectations of continuing family tradition that the Tsukiokas emphasize.
- She doesn't look like Touka/Tsukasa, but they get their looks from Tsubasa so for all we know Tomonori could be a redhead.
- The Tsukioka manor sakura tree clearly has some connection to Sekai, since she appears with it in Mother's Milk and "Ami" is in front of it in Rain King.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.- Sensei sees Touka as Sekai, probably because they're both mother figures that he wants to fuck, but maybe there's a deeper connection.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.- Sekai's name starts with the letter T, which definitely stands for something other than Teacher.
You know, Shiori Shiawase has a nice ring to it.
Also, it would mean that Tsukiokas already have a child from Arakawas, which allows interesting implications
PS Good bye "all girls in the class are Akira's relatives" and welcome "all girls in the class are Ami's relatives" theory
- Aug 23, 2023
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First of all, welcome to being active in the thread. Your first replay is where it really starts. At times it seems like a completely different game from the amount of stuff you start paying attention to and connections you couldn't make before.
I skipped most of Chika's events and hated Yasu's "nonsense" during my first time. I barely knew who Chinami was as well: "why the hell is there a kid (with a dog mask) in this porn game?
- Sep 5, 2020
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If you like turn-based JRPGs, the three modern Persona games are all very, VERY good turn-based JRPGs, and the length won't feel like an issue in real time.
If you don't like turn-based JRPGs, the length will ABSOLUTELY be an issue.
I came of age on NES JRPGs, and enjoyed Persona 5 so much I immediately started a second run, and wound up clocking 250 hours on it before moving on to another game.
- Mar 13, 2020
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Are you excited for Metaphor? Or not so much because of change in setting?
- Sep 5, 2020
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It looks interesting, but I'll probably wait to see how early adopters like it before buying. Atlus is usually spot on with their games, but when they miss, they tend to miss HARD.
- Oct 5, 2019
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I like that there are actual things to find through inspection and theory. It makes a replay much more interesting. Like rewatching Blade Runner and seeing all the subtle hints for what they are.
The Tsukioka connection idea is pretty neat. Tsubasa probably doesn't know in that case, since she hasn't interacted with or asked about Ami as far as I recall.
The Tsukioka connection idea is pretty neat. Tsubasa probably doesn't know in that case, since she hasn't interacted with or asked about Ami as far as I recall.
- Sep 5, 2021
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For every theorycrafter there are 20 of us dunces, you're in good company friend. Feel free to join us over at the dunce table.