Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

Ami seems to already be hanging out with Maya:

Spoiler

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So, they are probably fine. Maya only really gives a shit about Ami and Sensei, so this was inevitable.

Noriko is supposedly Ami's "sister" along with Niki:

Spoiler

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And has apparently always planned to live happily ever after with Ami and Sensei:

Spoiler

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So, I can definitely see this relationship growing. Especially with Niki being important to Ami, and all 3 being important to Sensei.

Futaba doesn't really seem in the mood for friends lately. Even a little annoyed by Rin it seems. Albeit, she's cozying up to Otoha now which is... strange.

A little out of left field, but Nodoka and Otoha might be getting closer to Ami soon. Not only are they into incest, depravity, and Sensei, they also know about her mother, and Nodoka, in particular, is interested in Ami:

Spoiler

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They also both have some relation to Niki. Sensei even seems to struggle between choosing Niki and Nodoka:

Spoiler

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So, this is sure to cause some drama. Who knows, Nodoka might even be trying to be Ami's "sister" soon as well. She already calls Sensei "papa".

Otoha also seems interested in Maya, Niki, and Sensei, and has some connection to Sekai. It seems like she'll probably get involved with Ami at some point.

Overall: I doubt the "burned bridges" will be that big of the deal. Most of these girls just want Sensei's dick and don't really see Ami as much more than a way to get it, which isn't exactly new to her:

Spoiler

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Ami's relationship with Uta might be a little different now due to the whole breaking into her house, trying to kidnap Sensei, and having her wizard pic on Sensei's phone stuff, though.

Ami will also probably be wary of Chika, in particular, since she sees her as possibly the most obsessed:

Spoiler

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Still, they will both probably play nice because it's beneficial.

In the end, it'll really just depend on if Sensei will honor his word and prioritize Ami now:

Spoiler

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Otherwise things will probably just repeat themselves, and none of what's happened will matter much.

Could you elaborate a little more on the Otoha and Ami stuff, and her connection to Sekai? I have no idea what you're talking about. Also, I felt kinda angry Maya finally playing the violin happened with Otoha of all people, that to me just feels like a random character overall, but didn't feel much about it either. Any explanations are welcomed.

Spoiler: A LOT about Niki

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So I'd like to hear more about Niki too, since I'm not sure what to make of her.

 

[Bingoogus]

Big Penis™

 

[Moonflare]

Install URM; it will give you a heads up whenever you're upon a flag that is about to branch the subsequent conversation. You will be able to easily view different paths in replay from the same save, with a few exceptions like Disappointing Everyone and Getting Comfortable.

Spoiler: Thanks, big help!

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[DeSkel15]

Could you elaborate a little more on the Otoha and Ami stuff, and her connection to Sekai? I have no idea what you're talking about. Also, I felt kinda angry Maya finally playing the violin happened with Otoha of all people, that to me just feels like a random character overall, but didn't feel much about it either. Any explanations are welcomed.

Spoiler: A LOT about Niki

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So I'd like to hear more about Niki too, since I'm not sure what to make of her.

Otoha: It was recently shown that Nodoka knows that Otoha knows who the Girl Who Cannot Breathe (aka Sekai and Ami's mom) is:

Spoiler

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Otoha however is apparently trying to hide this.

Then there's how Otoha seems to see Sensei as a little brother, while he was Sekai's little brother in law. Both Sekai and Otoha also seem to be shotacons, and shitty when it comes to love. There's something strange going on here, but it's not clear what or why.

Niki and Noriko: They grew up with Sensei. They were next door neighbors and he was basically a part of their family long before he dated Niki, and since he was "with" Sekai at least:

Spoiler

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When Sensei was around 18 and Niki 16, they dated for 5 years, then the accident happened, Sensei ghosted her, and after 8 years they reunited.

Some stuff on Noriko:

Basically the timeline seems to be:

• Sensei becomes a Tutor
• Niki mentions it to her family (currently dating)
• Noriko gets tutored and develops a crush (she's implied to be 6)
• Accident happens
• Sensei stops coming around
• Seemingly soon after, tutors again, letting Noriko back into his life but not Niki (ghosts her)
• Short time later (now revealed to be within months), Maya shows up.
• Years later, Sensei and Maya disappear (almost 5 years ago)
• Noriko begins her search
• Finds Sensei after seeing him out of a bus window. It's a thursday. Something happens. He's gone again. (Almost 3 years ago)
• Noriko continues search.
• School gets swallowed and she ends up in Wakana's class. (This year)
• Wakana tries to get rid of her, Noriko reunites with Sensei, and Maya, who calls her a cunt.

This is what I get from the 'What Could Have Been', and 'What Is' Chapter 2 Main Events, and Noriko's 'Loxosceles Reclusa' Chapter 2 Event.

Overall: The Nakayamas are basically family. Niki is like a younger big sister, and Noriko a little sister. Niki is also his childhood best friend who he used to watch anime and go play in the woods with.

Sensei has tried to hide things from Niki mostly because he cares about her and doesn't want her to see how he really is. He doesn't feel like he deserves her.

Niki is basically everything that is good for him. Nodoka is the opposite. She makes him feel numb. Niki makes him want to be better. They are basically the Dark side (Nodoka) vs the Light side (Niki) imo. Nodoka wants him to accept his horribleness. Niki wants him to grow up.

 

[Bingoogus]

FireCazador i always enjoy your little journeys through the thread as you catch up to the current time through many pages of old comments, your reactions are like little milestones on your journey. You had a lot to catch up on this time around, i was actually surprised just how far back your first milestone was.

 

[Moonflare]

Otoha: It was recently shown that Nodoka knows that Otoha knows who the Girl Who Cannot Breathe (Aka Sekai and Ami's mom) is:

Spoiler

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Otoha however is apparently trying to hide this.

Otoha also seems to see Sensei as a little brother, while he was Sekai's little brother in law. Both Sekai and Otoha also seem to be shotacons, and shitty when it comes to love. There's something strange going on here, but it's not clear what or why.

Niki and Noriko grew up with Sensei. They were next door neighbors and he was basically a part of their family long before he dated Niki, and since he was "with" Sekai at least:

Spoiler

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When Sensei was around 18 and Niki 16, they dated for 5 years, then the accident happened, Sensei ghosted her, and after 8 years they reunited.

Some stuff on Noriko:


Overall: The Nakayamas are basically family. Niki is like a younger bigger sister and Noriko a little sister. Niki is also his childhood best friend who he used to watch anime and go play in the woods with.

Sensei has tried to hide things from Niki mostly because he cares about her and doesn't want her to see how he really is. He doesn't feel like he deserves her. Niki is basically everything that is good for him. Nodoka is the opposite. She makes him feel numb. Niki makes him want to be better. They are basically the Dark side (Nodoka) vs the Light side (Niki) imo. Nodoka wants him to accept his horribleness. Niki wants him to grow up.

I see, well, that helps with Niki - but if all about her is indeed true, she's gonna be torn apart when the truth comes out. There are shattering revelations about what has controlled her life since forever that she has no idea about. That, or she'll soldier on regardless, and if so, more respect for her. She already said that she's too deep to have any chance of going back now, regardless of what happens.

And regarding Otoha, now that would be VERY interesting, and finally give me reason to care about her - which I've been trying to do for a long time. I wonder how Sekai feels about Niki too, I was reviewing the conversation she has about moving in, and Sekai's there the whole time, and when Niki presses to talk to Ami about it now, Sekai seems to call Ami to interrupt the conversation (or be a part of it?) Unsure about her intentions:

Spoiler: Images

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[FireCazador]

FireCazador i always enjoy your little journeys through the thread as you catch up to the current time through many pages of old comments, your reactions are like little milestones on your journey. You had a lot to catch up on this time around, i was actually surprised just how far back your first milestone was.

Since i started playing LiL and got a little corner at this thread i try to see all the posts since i find interesting what people think about some things (sometimes i skip the biblical post cause it would consume a lot of time and the catch up would increase at some level that i could not really catch up xd)
Overall i try to react to the post that i really like or are funny (just because the limited reactions keep me chained)
This time i forgot about the update and had like 30 pages to read and had a little pause fearing the reaction limit.

But definitely the best part of looking through all the post is when i find biblicaly posts redacted like a wiki with a lot of info and pics without looking the publisher, then think about our LiL FBI library and scroll up to see who post it and confirm my thoughts.
Also your random posts make me laught for its randomness.

Damn now that i think about it i remember when this thread didnt reach the 1000 pages and now we are almost at 2000 (and how probably at least 200 posts can be people asking for saves or complaining about their deleted saves xdd)

So i definitely will continue my journey through this thread until the end (or Sel ending in a mental hospital xd) enjoying everyone's grain of sand

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Big Penis™

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Random cringe theory:
What if Himawari is one of the girls in main cast? Like, maybe Otoha is her. Himawari can easily change her appearance and pretend to be someone else. Also, Nodoka saw a blue-eyed girl for some reason, but why did Nodoka see her? Maybe because her roommate IS actually a blue-eyed girl? This could also explain why Otoha knows about Sekai and tries to keep that secret. Plus, if we think about the theory that Himawari is Ayane's daughter, then it could explain why... Nah, that's all for today.

 

[Moonflare]

Random cringe theory:
What if Himawari is one of the girls in main cast? Like, maybe Otoha is her. Himawari can easily change her appearance and pretend to be someone else. Also, Nodoka saw a blue-eyed girl for some reason, but why did Nodoka see her? Maybe because her roommate IS actually a blue-eyed girl? This could also explain why Otoha knows about Sekai and tries to keep that secret. Plus, if we think about the theory that Himawari is Ayane's daughter, then it could explain why... Nah, that's all for today.

Spoiler: Otoha

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Spoiler: Nodoka

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(which Nao accomplished in one afternoon, without speaking nor ruining anyone's life, so maybe she should take some lessons )

 

[jexyheir]

Okay. So this arc with lost Maya is lost on me. I just don't see their relationship as developed to such an extent. Like story doesn't convey that "love" towards Maya-prime as much as Sensei keep blabbering about losing her. And yes, most of it was never shown due to memory issues, but it just doesn't click. And that makes this whole trauma make no sense for my limited brain.
On the other side through the whole story I can only see Sensei loving Sekai. Definitely with some unconventional crooked love, but still. And last Touka event adds to it.
Niki doesn't even count, she just pushed him into relationship and he's too much of a pussy to say no while never caring about her at all.


On the unrelated note, I'm pretty sure everybody's calling him Akira all the time and just roll their eyes when he bust his move "Call me Akira now".

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

LoveBlueHairedGirl’s Himawari theory got me thinking up cracked potential theories of my own… and- okay so how about this?

Y’know how resets are able to mess with everyone’s perception of time and reality except for the Rooftop Apocalypse Squad? And also how reality can essentially be… rewritten entirely almost? (Examples: Ami getting crucified in Reset 6 but being alive again once the reset was initiated by Big Boy, Chinami coming down with a serious illness but being healthy again post reset, and of course we know of the many times Akira’s cognition has been rewritten, and now more recently Maya’s.)

Anyway, my point is: What if Sekai found a way to rewrite existence from beyond the grave? What if she’s able to return to life somehow?

We’re being led to believe Nao-chan was the last character added to the game, but… is it 100% definitely without a doubt confirmed? Or is Selebus perhaps hiding a sneaky little twist up his sleeve?

Just think about it. Sekai has appeared on the roof at the end of one of the resets before; the fifth one I believe. And Sekai is already possessing Kaori for a fact… why? To try and cling onto life in some form, obviously. Kaori’s recent events touch on the idea of rewriting history as well. It’s an interesting thought.

Imagine we go through a reset event, then once it’s initiated and Akira goes home: bam! Sitting right there on his couch.

“Hello, Aki-kun~… Did you miss me?”

And the sixteenth side character is added to the menu after the twist of all twists and a taunting message by the narrator.

“Oh, did I say Nao-chan was last? You really shouldn’t believe everything you hear, you know.”

Aw well. Realistic or not, it’s fun to imagine the possibilities.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

LoveBlueHairedGirl’s Himawari theory got me thinking up cracked potential theories of my own… and- okay so how about this?

Y’know how resets are able to mess with everyone’s perception of time and reality except for the Rooftop Apocalypse Squad? And also how reality can essentially be… rewritten entirely almost? (Examples: Ami getting crucified in Reset 6 but being alive again once the reset was initiated by Big Boy, Chinami coming down with a serious illness but being healthy again post reset, and of course we know of the many times Akira’s cognition has been rewritten, and now more recently Maya’s.)

Anyway, my point is: What if Sekai found a way to rewrite existence from beyond the grave? What if she’s able to return to life somehow?

We’re being led to believe Nao-chan was the last character added to the game, but… is it 100% definitely without a doubt confirmed? Or is Selebus perhaps hiding a sneaky little twist up his sleeve?

Just think about it. Sekai has appeared on the roof at the end of one of the resets before; the fifth one I believe. And Sekai is already possessing Kaori for a fact… why? To try and cling onto life in some form, obviously. Kaori’s recent events touch on the idea of rewriting history as well. It’s an interesting thought.

Imagine we go through a reset event, then once it’s initiated and Akira goes home: bam! Sitting right there on his couch.

“Hello, Aki-kun~… Did you miss me?”

And the sixteenth side character is added to the menu after the twist of all twists and a taunting message by the narrator.

“Oh, did I say Nao-chan was last? You really shouldn’t believe everything you hear, you know.”

Aw well. Realistic or not, it’s fun to imagine the possibilities.

You know, possibly adding Sekai and Himawari in the side cast is quite possible. After all, we still have 5 more free places there...

Edit.: And we should never trust Selebus, as the whole game is based on false perceptions or something like this.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Okay. So this arc with lost Maya is lost on me. I just don't see their relationship as developed to such an extent. Like story doesn't convey that "love" towards Maya-prime as much as Sensei keep blabbering about losing her. And yes, most of it was never shown due to memory issues, but it just doesn't click. And that makes this whole trauma make no sense for my limited brain.
On the other side through the whole story I can only see Sensei loving Sekai. Definitely with some unconventional crooked love, but still. And last Touka event adds to it.
Niki doesn't even count, she just pushed him into relationship and he's too much of a pussy to say no while never caring about her at all.


On the unrelated note, I'm pretty sure everybody's calling him Akira all the time and just roll their eyes when he bust his move "Call me Akira now".

You're not alone, I had mentioned this previously and most of us agree. I just don't vibe with this whole Maya thing and it should've been developed more.
Like yeah, you can claim that we will get the reasoning for his attachment later on, but it impacts the gameplay NOW, I just don't give a shit about Maya man please.

 

[Moonflare]

LoveBlueHairedGirl’s Himawari theory got me thinking up cracked potential theories of my own… and- okay so how about this?

Y’know how resets are able to mess with everyone’s perception of time and reality except for the Rooftop Apocalypse Squad? And also how reality can essentially be… rewritten entirely almost? (Examples: Ami getting crucified in Reset 6 but being alive again once the reset was initiated by Big Boy, Chinami coming down with a serious illness but being healthy again post reset, and of course we know of the many times Akira’s cognition has been rewritten, and now more recently Maya’s.)

Anyway, my point is: What if Sekai found a way to rewrite existence from beyond the grave? What if she’s able to return to life somehow?

We’re being led to believe Nao-chan was the last character added to the game, but… is it 100% definitely without a doubt confirmed? Or is Selebus perhaps hiding a sneaky little twist up his sleeve?

Just think about it. Sekai has appeared on the roof at the end of one of the resets before; the fifth one I believe. And Sekai is already possessing Kaori for a fact… why? To try and cling onto life in some form, obviously. Kaori’s recent events touch on the idea of rewriting history as well. It’s an interesting thought.

Imagine we go through a reset event, then once it’s initiated and Akira goes home: bam! Sitting right there on his couch.

“Hello, Aki-kun~… Did you miss me?”

And the sixteenth side character is added to the menu after the twist of all twists and a taunting message by the narrator.

“Oh, did I say Nao-chan was last? You really shouldn’t believe everything you hear, you know.”

Aw well. Realistic or not, it’s fun to imagine the possibilities.

I think it's possible given that we're heading to a dark route. But I don't think it's likely that she'd exist by herself in a normal cycle, or that she'd get an ending. If Sekai managed to simply will herself into existence (real existence), then a LOT of characters would more or less lose their current reason of being. No more voices in your head, no more possession, she'd become a Nodoka with a master's in manipulation - but being "real" would also make her weaker.

Same for Himawari. Being real means no longer being able to shapeshift, bound to reality means that you can just punch them in the face.

What I'm saying is that if they'd become real it would probably be in a "happy event" like cycle during the dark route.

 

[Xiondingens]

So, just curious, am i really in the minority here who doesnt really see a problem with the whole Maya Prime storyline?

Even if the simple fact that she was there from the start, not just as one of the 10 original girls of the class, but also the only person who did go with him through the resets -which would be quite the traumatic experience people would form a bond over- wouldnt mean anything for you.

Then how about the thought that he gets more and more of his memories and his pre-reset personality back. And because he loved maya before the resets, those feelings are of course bleeding over into his current post-reset akira-sensei personality. Is that a too hard stretch for you guys?

Or if you really want to stay hellbend on him not loving her, then how about guilt? It is really that hard to believe that someone would feel guilt when your penis inside them, would cause them literally to be erased from existance? Because that is what happened. They had sex, he didnt started to melt for whatever reason, and instead she made pop and is now gone. I would feel shitty when my penis did cause that for another person.

And what about the simple fact that he never was any good at handling the loss of people in his life has been part of the story for quite a while now. So, i really dont see where all this arguing comes that this isnt well developed or it all happens without any reason. When i see all the reasons clearly been lying out there in the open for a while by now.

 

[Moonflare]

Okay. So this arc with lost Maya is lost on me. I just don't see their relationship as developed to such an extent. Like story doesn't convey that "love" towards Maya-prime as much as Sensei keep blabbering about losing her. And yes, most of it was never shown due to memory issues, but it just doesn't click. And that makes this whole trauma make no sense for my limited brain.

Maya is both the anchor to Akira and to us in this story. She explains what's going on, she's the constant enigma, and she's the one that understands what we're going through. She's there to help us, she's sacrificed everything because of us, and her love simply cannot be measured.

You may add to that the sum of countless cycles bleeding through. It hasn't been confirmed, but it was hinted many times that the reason as to why these girls fall for Akira so fast and so hard is because they've been doing it for countless cycles, and some level of that bleeds through. It is possible that this affects Akira too, and he's been led by Maya countless times now, which would add to the level of emotion.

And lastly, Akira's tragedy is two-fold: His abuse during childhood, and his trauma of losing his loved one/abuser. This is the second time he has lost someone he loved, it happened to the second and only person he had sex with before all the resets, and he still has NO IDEA how to deal with that. Add to that that it was because of him, and that he's now experiencing a reset through the perspective of our Maya for the first time (having to deal with a Maya that was reset). He hasn't got a clue of how to deal with his feelings and/or life.

We're seeing him blabber about her death for what? a few months in-game. He hasn't managed to deal with Sekai's death and it has been 15 years. I'd say we're going pretty fast even.

So, just curious, am i really in the minority here who doesnt really see a problem with the whole Maya Prime storyline?

And adding to what you said, which is totally in line with what I think:

I think the storyline not only doesn't have a problem, but it is expected. In narratives where you have a mentor-figure, which is what Maya is in LiL, it is expected that the mentor will die at some point (could be a metaphorical death), but in the sense that the protagonist will have to deal with things himself. And that's what's happening.

Akira has to figure things out without a crutch, and if Maya was still here it would make that more difficult, and also be a problem for him to figure out his past with her, which is still mystery - but with a Maya that doesn't fear cracking if she says things or touches him, the road is open for us to find out (we already started by seeing how she interacts with him).

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

We touched on the Maya Prime subject a month ago. I maintain the same answer now as I did back then.

While it’s true he doesn’t ‘remember his past’, keep in mind the important detail that he’s willingly suppressing it too. As such, it’s my belief that subconscious feelings are able to slip through the cracks without making themselves immediately presentable.

Akira still feels a deep connection with Sekai, Niki, Noriko, Ami, Ayane and Maya because technically that past still happened and is alluded to in story. Just because Akira is shielding himself from his past trauma by suppressing his memories, doesn’t mean he doesn’t love or care for certain people deep down.

Besides, what was he supposed to do when Maya popped on the roof?

“Oh, well that’s a bummer. Guess we’ll see how this plays out.”?

Nahhh man I’d feel guilty asf too.

The Maya Prime storyline was great, Maya Prime as a character is top tier, and no that is not the minority opinion.

That being said, I can respect your opinion if Maya just isn’t for you as a character. There are plenty of girls in the game, after all. Even still, the writing itself is fine.

 

[Riolol]

Spoiler: Ami if Akira doesn't keep it in his pants

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[Xiondingens]

I think the storyline not only doesn't have a problem, but it is expected. In narratives where you have a mentor-figure, which is what Maya is in LiL, it is expected that the mentor will die at some point (could be a metaphorical death), but in the sense that the protagonist will have to deal with things himself. And that's what's happening.

Huh, i have to admit, i never thought of her as a mentor figure. But... yeah, i can see that be a thing.

Btw, i that gave me some reasons another thought. I mean for maya it was like it that she couldnt to much, that wouldnt lead him to melt away. And that for seemingly a long, long time. So there is something i am now a bit dissapointed about -okay let me just say up front, it wouldnt have really did fit with the direction the story took, so i understand why it didnt happened- and that is that he wasnt trapped in that for a while.

You know? Not been able to do anything with maya without melting her and reset the whole timeline completely and been completly alone. No one else who would be even aware of the time loops or the resets. And basically always getting the rug pulled from under him every time maya did broke some rule neither she nor he is even aware of. At least for a fakeout i would have loved that.

But yeah, from the pacing and mood it would at least very hard to swallow this and going right to his shut down personality. Although it could have worked, if this was what caused it. But then of course it would diminish the impact maya herself had on it. Yeah, i guess there wouldnt have been a good way to story sel wanted to tell after the reset.

I would have still liked it tho.