Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[DeSkel15]

Speaking of not funny and people being absolute assholes - the worst for me was this:

Spoiler: Yellow Cactus Flower

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This is like, what an asshole. Yumi had no idea what she went through, and she was being genuinely nice to her. All just so that Io can go "yeah, I was sexually assaulted therefore no other problems can be problems, and I get to laugh at everyone else without even disclosing why I'm laughing".

As if having a junkie mother that left you as a kid, and you had to provide for yourself by stealing and living at another teenager's house was a walk in the park. Io has someone that pays for all her therapy and meds and has a place to live. It's like, this is so stupid, they're both traumas, there's no need to compare them.

First time I watched this I was kind of like "yeah, Io had it so much worse, I get it" - but this time I am 100% on Yumi's side, and she didn't even had a side here, she was just being nice - Io's the one being an absolute asshole.

Frankly, I totally see why Io laughed. It seems like she'd probably trade Yumi mothers, and maybe even wants Yuki as a mom based off how much she likes Yuki, while hating women, and was apparently bringing Yuki food as a gift before running into Yumi.

Neither of their "tragic backstories" justify their actions though. Anyone who laughs at or makes fun of someone is an asshole.

Although, Yumi never actually had to provide for herself. She had Chika and the Yakuza taking care of her, and is basically a princess with bodyguards, an estate, etc. She also had guy friends before the Space War apparently:

Spoiler

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Yumi only isn't living as royalty, by choice. Or as Touka has put it:

Spoiler

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The only ones who had to take care of themselves were Chika, and maybe Nodoka depending on why she was working at 10, and when her mother stopped being able to take care of herself. Probably also Maya for a time before ending up with Sensei.

Ami more or less had to take care of herself, but at least Sensei had money to fund it. Uta seemed to be in a similar situation.

Not sure about Yasu. Had parents at 8, but apparently doesn't remember her mother, and seemed to end up alone. Except for her god, who seems to provide for her.

Edit: Btw, Pareidolia may have been involved in that Chapter 3 Io 'Yellow Cactus Flower' Event, where she laughed at Yumi:

Spoiler

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Strangely being in lower case, probably implies it's involvement.

 

[Moonflare]

Although, Yumi never actually had to provide for herself. She had Chika and the Yakuza taking care of her, and is basically a princess with bodyguards, an estate, etc. She also had guy friends before the Space War apparently:

Spoiler

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Yumi only isn't living as royalty, by choice. Or as Touka has put it:

Spoiler

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You're factually right, but I'd point out that she had to because it was the effect her trauma left on her. Yumi being malnourished is a well-established plot point, she goes days without eating - this isn't something someone does for years on a whim, it's the reflection of the level of scarring she received. Saying that a person didn't have to react the way they did to the trauma they had is naive. Another person may very well had relied on the Yakuza and became a "princess" as Touka puts it, but Touka's father wasn't doing cocaine with his friends while Tsubasa was drugged out of her mind while being left to care for her as a child - all the while in a den of criminals.

Touka's commentary is also factually right, since a calculating and well-rounded person might simply use the resources available to them despite where it comes from - however Yumi is not a calculating and well-rounded person, and neither I think should be judged for reacting the way she did to the things that happened to her (in regards to leaving the Yakuza).

All in all, I think we all understand why Io laughed, but we should also all understand why it's horrible that she did.

Edit: and I do wonder if Io would keep laughing as she found out that the person she was laughing at was assaulted by her beloved Akira.

 

[Moonflare]

I wasn't ready for the full power that Ayane brings into this conversation in destroying Chika (and she doesn't even notice).

Spoiler: When you snap

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We all have commented on different levels of irritation about Chika's denial arc, but I don't remember a conversation where she felt more pathetic than this. It's like Ayane really says it all, she doesn't know a single thing about the man she "loves", and actively goes out of her way to prevent herself from learning. Which is the same as saying that she doesn't love him at all, but the convenient idea she created of him.

Now, I don't dislike Chika's character - but man, again, I was not expecting to find her as pathetic as I did here.

 

[TheSeedy1]

Much as I love Chika, the revelation of Akira's entire other lives as it were apart from her is gonna be a hammerblow.

On one hand, when the Niki stuff comes out I can't wait to see THAT bomb go off. On the other, hoo boy - given Chika's temper and what not, this is...well, I think I'm gonna rent a bomb shelter for that episode.

 

[Moonflare]

Much as I love Chika, the revelation of Akira's entire other lives as it were apart from her is gonna be a hammerblow.

On one hand, when the Niki stuff comes out I can't wait to see THAT bomb go off. On the other, hoo boy - given Chika's temper and what not, this is...well, I think I'm gonna rent a bomb shelter for that episode.

I'm very interested in that, it has been hinted that she and Rin share a bond, so maybe that's the future. But I just have no idea, she can't out Akira because that would destroy the school day to day, but she has to "break up" with him for Yumi to get together with him I suppose. I mean, she isn't a very calm person by any means, I just don't know how far her "snap" can reach.

 

[Nadekai]

I'm very interested in that, it has been hinted that she and Rin share a bond, so maybe that's the future. But I just have no idea, she can't out Akira because that would destroy the school day to day, but she has to "break up" with him for Yumi to get together with him I suppose. I mean, she isn't a very calm person by any means, I just don't know how far her "snap" can reach.

... Ami levels of snap ...
... She's gonna threaten to cut off dicks...
... Tsubasa is probably gonna kill us ...

... Rin is gonna kill us ...

Much as I love Chika, the revelation of Akira's entire other lives as it were apart from her is gonna be a hammerblow.

On one hand, when the Niki stuff comes out I can't wait to see THAT bomb go off. On the other, hoo boy - given Chika's temper and what not, this is...well, I think I'm gonna rent a bomb shelter for that episode.

I too cannot wait for that...

I wasn't ready for the full power that Ayane brings into this conversation in destroying Chika (and she doesn't even notice).

Spoiler: When you snap

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We all have commented on different levels of irritation about Chika's denial arc, but I don't remember a conversation where she felt more pathetic than this. It's like Ayane really says it all, she doesn't know a single thing about the man she "loves", and actively goes out of her way to prevent herself from learning. Which is the same as saying that she doesn't love him at all, but the convenient idea she created of him.



Now, I don't dislike Chika's character - but man, again, I was not expecting to find her as pathetic as I did here.

How much does Chika even know about Sensei?
She seems to know nothing about him really.
Like, she doesn't even know about his trauma...
She doesn't even know who he used to be...
And she doesn't even know about him and Niki...

I wonder if she is just dumb...
Or she is devout believer of "ignorance is bliss"




Also, did Rin change her Hairstyle because she wants to look like Chika?

 

[DeSkel15]

You're factually right, but I'd point out that she had to because it was the effect her trauma left on her. Yumi being malnourished is a well-established plot point, she goes days without eating - this isn't something someone does for years on a whim, it's the reflection of the level of scarring she received. Saying that a person didn't have to react the way they did to the trauma they had is naive. Another person may very well had relied on the Yakuza and became a "princess" as Touka puts it, but Touka's father wasn't doing cocaine with his friends while Tsubasa was drugged out of her mind while being left to care for her as a child - all the while in a den of criminals.

Touka's commentary is also factually right, since a calculating and well-rounded person might simply use the resources available to them despite where it comes from - however Yumi is not a calculating and well-rounded person, and neither I think should be judged for reacting the way she did to the things that happened to her (in regards to leaving the Yakuza).

All in all, I think we all understand why Io laughed, but we should also all understand why it's horrible that she did.

Edit: and I do wonder if Io would keep laughing as she found out that the person she was laughing at was assaulted by her beloved Akira.

Why are you just stopping at her leaving the Yakuza, though?

If Trauma can make it so someone has to do something, doesn't that mean that everything they do is something they had to? Trauma doesn't just go away. It affects people for life. It changes people. Yumi is still being affected by her Trauma and so is Io. So is Sensei. So is Ami, and basically everyone in this game.

Does that mean they've had to do everything they've done?

This seems like not just a naive, but a dangerous point of view, that also removes the agency of a traumatized individual simply because they suffer.

Yumi never had to leave the Yakuza. She did however feel like she had to. It was her choice and a praiseworthy one to make, imo. That doesn't make something what it isn't, though.

Yumi wasn't forced to take care of her little sister and herself as a kid, like Chika, or simply die. Plus, also another girl (Yumi) when she was around.

Also, I somewhat think Io would probably laugh since it was just a kiss. Even Noriko didn't seem to think much of it, but she's apparently okay with Sensei molesting children...

If Io found out about the Nodoka stuff, though, then that might change things. That'd be an interesting way for Io and Yumi to become friends.

I'm very interested in that, it has been hinted that she and Rin share a bond, so maybe that's the future. But I just have no idea, she can't out Akira because that would destroy the school day to day, but she has to "break up" with him for Yumi to get together with him I suppose. I mean, she isn't a very calm person by any means, I just don't know how far her "snap" can reach.

Chika to all the other girls:

Spoiler

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[TheSeedy1]

I'm very interested in that, it has been hinted that she and Rin share a bond, so maybe that's the future. But I just have no idea, she can't out Akira because that would destroy the school day to day, but she has to "break up" with him for Yumi to get together with him I suppose. I mean, she isn't a very calm person by any means, I just don't know how far her "snap" can reach.

Honestly, I think with Chika I can see it being more that obviously she's gonna be LIVID but she's also addicted to him - but I see it more that she'll probably be very open to CERTAIN girls being with him alongside her (Uta, Yumi, Rin) but absolutely draw a line in the sand for a lot of others (Io and Ami kek)

More Chika hilarity:

Spoiler: Chapter 1 Chika Spoiler

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[Moonflare]

Yumi never had to leave the Yakuza. She did however feel like she had to. It was her choice and a praiseworthy one to make, imo. That doesn't make something what it isn't, though.

We're saying the same thing. That she felt like she had to is what I meant with had (using italics). No one has to do with anything, however they feel compelled to react in a certain way (because of a multitude of reasons) which is the had I used. Chika didn't have to care for Chinami either, but she had to because that's how she reacted to the trials that presented themselves (whereas another person might have reacted in a different way about leaving a child behind - both her father and Yuki certainly did). Io didn't have to cope with her trauma by putting everyone down and laughing at "smaller" traumas instead of being compassionate, but she feels she had to, and that that is somehow justified because she suffered "more".

My use of had stands primarily in opposition to Touka's idea of Yumi being a princess (which isn't even the point she's making in the conversation, cause she's just pointing out the present state of affairs of the Yamaguchi while looked from the outside). However, to say that Yumi somehow has it easy or easier than someone else in terms of trauma is naive to me (that isn't specific to Yumi and Io, but to any trauma in general). In Yumi's case in Touka's analysis, for someone to be able to capitalize on the Yakuza, of all people, it would take such a shrewd intellect that I doubt anyone on the cast other than Touka would be able to do it (given that they're teenagers) - and that's simply because she was raised the way she was in the place she was.

As for Io and Noriko, well, from Noriko's perspective, Maya wanted Akira and possibly initiated it herself. Although still a crime, it's of a different nature than forcing himself on someone that is trying to run way, calling him a rapist, and basically yelling for help.

Spoiler: Town has two halves

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I don't know if Io will ever find out about Yumi though, I think it's more likely that she finds out about Karin or Molly indirectly (if anyone), since Yumi is not about to expose her weakness, especially not to an asshole that laughed at her when she tried to open up.

 

[Moonflare]

I didn't remember that we had explicit confirmation that Himawari was Ayane's daughter, but there we have it:

Spoiler: Fairytale The end until tomorrow

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I guess it's nothing new for most people, but again I didn't remember it was that explicit. So the more you know.

 

[Nadekai]

I didn't remember that we had explicit confirmation that Himawari was Ayane's daughter, but there we have it:

Spoiler: Fairytale The end until tomorrow

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I guess it's nothing new for most people, but again I didn't remember it was that explicit. So the more you know.

Does that mean Himawari is our daughter?
... So she really was pregnant...
... Why isn't she helping her very own father...
... Why is she just trolling us...
... Why can she shapeshift into cute girls but we cannot...

... Also, I didn't pay attention, but did Himawari appear before Ayane got into Apoco Club?

 

[Moonflare]

... Why isn't she helping her very own father...
... Why is she just trolling us...

Wdym? She goes out of her way to help Akira every chance she gets, and tried to protect him almost to death during the 5th reset (Quiz Event named Untitled). The thing about her is that she's not that powerful, she is under constant supervision and has to help on the downlow.

 

[Nadekai]

Wdym? She goes out of her way to help Akira every chance she gets, and tried to protect him almost to death during the 5th reset (Quiz Event named Untilted). The thing about her is that she's not that powerful, she is under constant supervision and has to help on the downlow.

.. She turns into cute girls and trolls us...
... Also what do you mean under constant supervision...
... Why does she even have superpowers in the first place ...

 

[Leoxsama]

You can pretty much write off anyone who deliberately participates in trauma olympics, if your trauma doesn't generate a level of empathy in you for other peoples struggles then you're just an asshole, regardless of your life experiences. I can totally understand not having enough room on your plate for other peoples trauma, you have to put your own mental health first some or even most of the time, but that doesn't mean you need to justify it with some crap about how yours is worse or theirs isn't so bad, that's just plain shitty behaviour no matter the circumstances.

That being said, Io is a teenager, so having that kind of attitude is practically cliche, we were all shortsighted self-involved dipshits in our teens.

Despite how Akira/Sensei portrays Io as "mature" for her age, this is arguably one of the most immature things Io did.

 

[Nadekai]

Despite how Akira/Sensei portrays Io as "mature" for her age, this is arguably one of the most immature things Io did.

... Io...? Mature?
... That's oxymoron...

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[Squalicorax]

Oh god dammit. Either I really played through this game 4-ish times while totally overlooking Maya's backstory being blatantly laid out, or I have some Akira tier memory.

Spoiler

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[DeSkel15]

We're saying the same thing. That she felt like she had to is what I meant with had (using italics). No one has to do with anything, however they feel compelled to react in a certain way (because of a multitude of reasons) which is the had I used. Chika didn't have to care for Chinami either, but she had to because that's how she reacted to the trials that presented themselves (whereas another person might have reacted in a different way about leaving a child behind - both her father and Yuki certainly did). Io didn't have to cope with her trauma by putting everyone down and laughing at "smaller" traumas instead of being compassionate, but she feels she had to, and that that is somehow justified because she suffered "more".

My use of had stands primarily in opposition to Touka's idea of Yumi being a princess (which isn't even the point she's making in the conversation, cause she's just pointing out the present state of affairs of the Yamaguchi while looked from the outside). However, to say that Yumi somehow has it easy or easier than someone else in terms of trauma is naive to me (that isn't specific to Yumi and Io, but to any trauma in general). In Yumi's case in Touka's analysis, for someone to be able to capitalize on the Yakuza, of all people, it would take such a shrewd intellect that I doubt anyone on the cast other than Touka would be able to do it (given that they're teenagers) - and that's simply because she was raised the way she was in the place she was.

As for Io and Noriko, well, from Noriko's perspective, Maya wanted Akira and possibly initiated it herself. Although still a crime, it's of a different nature than forcing himself on someone that is trying to run way, calling him a rapist, and basically yelling for help.

Spoiler: Town has two halves

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I don't know if Io will ever find out about Yumi though, I think it's more likely that she finds out about Karin or Molly indirectly (if anyone), since Yumi is not about to expose her weakness, especially not to an asshole that laughed at her when she tried to open up.

That's just semantics. Chika literally had to take care of herself and her sister or they'd die. That's not just a feeling. Yumi having to take care of herself is at best just a feeling.

Yumi also isn't just considered a princess by Touka and Tsubasa. She's literally considered a princess by herself and her Yakuza dudes:

Spoiler

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Touka isn't exaggerating what Yumi is. All Yumi needs to do is basically ask and she can get whatever she wants. Bed, food, the pinkies of those who piss her off, etc. They'll do whatever she tells them to:

Spoiler

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Yumi has status and power whenever she feels like using it, and inheritance that's basically hers already, unless she has brothers and sisters I don't recall.

I definitely agree that laughing at someone's Trauma is all sorts of fucked up, but I do think just treating all Trauma as the same is wrong as well. Everyone is different. Yumi isn't usually blacking out, or needing a bunch of medications to function, or slicing herself open to feel even after going to therapy, etc. She's a mess, but I wouldn't consider Yumi broken. She could probably use some therapy, though.

As for Noriko, she somewhat knows about Sensei forcing himself on Yumi. He didn't go into details beyond just a kiss:

Spoiler

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She doesn't know who it was he forced himself on, but frankly if she can still consider Sensei "good" after what she at least thinks he's done, I don't think it'd affect her much, but who knows, we may find out since her and Yumi are friends, and Sensei has a habit of blacking out around Yumi.

Io finding out about any one of them would be interesting. There's also Sensei and Sekai which will surely have to come up eventually. Not to mention, Maya and Sensei.

 

[BlackDays]

And as far as i remember, later she came back and took on that offer from who i think was Akira.
Thats how they probably met.

There's also an event where Maya takes Akira to a vending machine for a rare offer to buy him something to drink.
Akira comments the drink with something like "this feels strangely nostalgic".

 

[Moonflare]

Oh god dammit. Either I really played through this game 4-ish times while totally overlooking Maya's backstory being blatantly laid out, or I have some Akira tier memory.

Spoiler

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I got that, but what I didn't get is that maybe that's why Maya takes him to a vending machine after moving the boxes? Like, it's that what she's trying to make him remember? Them meeting? That's pretty awesome.

 

[Riolol]

I got that, but what I didn't get is that maybe that's why Maya takes him to a vending machine after moving the boxes? Like, it's that what she's trying to make him remember? Them meeting? That's pretty awesome.

I always thought the vending machine was a test to see if he was the real him. She said that drink was only sold at that specific vending machine so if he recognized it that means he has been there before.