Nov 22, 2021
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The reasons why I think this isn't unanimous are :
  • Many do not perceive Prime Maya And Nu Maya as the same character, and so are not attached to the latter. I interpret them as the same person, and I'm sure others do.
  • The incident was committed by a woman, and no penetration happened. It shouldn't matter, but for some people it does.
Not quite. We want the terms we use to have meaning and refer to specific, clear ideas so that when communicating we are understood. (this is to say language is a game in which we follow public rules to be mutually understood). English already has a term for what happened here - rape. Your specifications of the lover not knowing about it or not is not particularly relevant to the conversation. There is no ambiguity or lack of clarity here. The problem arises when the term "NTR," which used to refer to something specific, is broadened and used for any violation of purity or loyalty. (In the modern day someone would call rape NTR even if the girl was not in a relationship yet.) This causes problems in that the original term ceases to be useful and becomes kind of a tool for rhetoric - by muddying the waters much like philosophers do, they can better vent hatred while disguising their own insecurities. It is this misuse of language above all else which disturbs me. As the world's foremost leading expert on NTR it is deeply bothersome to see the term itself get fucked up the ass so immensely that it now represents all the evils of the world. And the tag subsequently meaning nothing. It was much more respectable back in 2011 with Elf's seminal release of Gatenkei back before it became a boogeyman in this nature.

(All this said, corruption of language is in fact the natural state of things. As things go I wouldn't be surprised if in 20-30 years "rape" as a term was all but entirely depreciated and everyone just says NTR in all contexts.)
 

Angiboat

Member
Jun 22, 2020
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Ultimately, I think it's pointless to dictate how people should feel about that scene. Some will dislike it because they perceive it as NTR, others for different reasons, and some simply won’t care at all. The only reason it matters is that this is a porn game site, and NTR is a fetish that is disliked by a lot, so devs and players made a point of tagging games that have it.
Personally I just don't like the scene because I'm tired of Selebus putting Ami on a pedestal every single update constantly, like damn other girls exist too.
At least there's finally some pay-off for all these warnings Maya was handing out about Ami supposedly killing people just because, about time that happened.
 

DeanNoriko

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Aug 20, 2022
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Still, I find it very funny how a LiL player, and porn games players in general could potentially be okay with elements in their stories like cheating, self-harm, violence, gore, drug use, mental disabilities, suicide, murder, torture, etc...but NTR is where they draw the line.
In my opinion, this just goes to show how the average human being, especially on the male side, often has very prominent ego-centric and narcissistic tendencies.
The suffering and abuse of others is acceptable and sometimes even desirable, however, the moment the MC, and by extension I myself, risk to suffer the slightest bit of inconvenience, humiliation or loss of control, it becomes an issue so extreme that the author must be sick in his mind to ever consider including such a thing in a work of art.

Which might be, if I may be so bold to assume so, one of the reasons many people here in this thread appreciate this particular game.
Sure, it essentially portrays the porn-genre-typical male power fantasy of building a harem of young girls that are all magically enamored with the MC and his horse cock.
However, Akira is not a renamable Marty Stu/Superman who is charming and ultimately bland so that the player can self-insert into him. Akira is a piece of shit, a creep, he has many faults and basically you'd have to be either very weird or extremely confident to openly admit to identify with him. But that's the thing, he is much more identifiable and understandable as a character, because he has character.
You do not see him as an extension of yourself, most of the time, but as a distinct character with his own desires, needs and thoughts that you follow within a story.
Which is also a great argument for many people on here that would wish this game was a kinetic novel, but that is an entirely different discussion.

Now, going back to people who are shocked with seeing NTR-adjacent content showing up in this game:
I would assume those players see the game differently from "us" and do insert themselves into the role of the MC and do feel like they lose control and are attacked personally when a potential LI is being sexed up by somebody else, regardless of the context apparently (I am still baffled how that scene could count as NTR but whatever).

I could be wrong of course so feel free to argue with me on this, we have enough time until the next update anyway :KEK:
 
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idiotamerican

Newbie
Aug 18, 2018
19
21
a little worried the most recent update cheapened some past maya scenes, e.g. beach. i think that's where the game was at its strongest

hope the trend doesn't continue
 
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Nov 22, 2021
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In my opinion, this just goes to show how the average human being, especially on the male side, has very prominent ego-centric and narcissistic tendencies.
The suffering and abuse of others is acceptable and sometimes even desirable, however, the moment the MC, and by extension I myself, risk to suffer the slightest bit of inconvenience, humiliation or loss of control, it becomes an issue so extreme that the author must be sick in his mind to ever consider including such a thing in a work of art.

Which might be, if I may be so bold to assume so, one of the reasons many people here in this thread appreciate this particular game.
Sure, it essentially portrays the porn-genre-typical male power fantasy of building a harem of young girls that are all magically enamored with the MC and his horse cock.
However, Akira is not a renamable Marty Stu/Superman who is charming and ultimately bland so that the player can self-insert into him. Akira is a piece of shit, a creep, he has many faults and basically you'd have to be either very weird or extremely confident to openly admit to identify with him. But that's the thing, he is much more identifiable and understandable as a character, because he has character.
You do not see him as an extension of yourself, most of the time, but as a distinct character with his own desires, needs and thoughts that you follow within a story.
Which is also a great argument for many people on here that would wish this game was a kinetic novel, but that is an entirely different discussion.

Now, going back to people who are shocked with seeing NTR-adjacent content showing up in this game:
I would assume those players see the game differently from "us" and do insert themselves into the role of the MC and do feel like they lose control and are attacked personally when a potential LI is being sexed up by somebody else, regardless of the context apparently (I am still baffled how that scene could count as NTR but whatever).

I could be wrong of course so feel free to argue with me on this, we have enough time until the next update anyway :KEK:
Extremely based posted from Dean as expected.

The recent football shenanigans in the update have really called back to mind ancient thoughts of the various Senseis being various players as a kind of multiverse of self-insertion. (In a sense, each of we players self-inserting into our own sensei in each of our own games of LiL which are each its own universe). Although it's not an option for us to act so singularly, we can conceive of a theoretical self-inserter who upon finding themselves in the Spider's Web would be content to just make choices that romance Karin and watch football. This seems like a potential idea/theme that the game is going for. "The world is made for you" - for Sensei, or for fiction-readers?
 

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
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On the topic of 'Right As Rain', something that Ami (Prime) said really got my synapses firing. (Basically everything she said, did, tbh)

Does Maya want to avoid sharing Ami?, especially with who Ami seemed to allude to here:
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Wouldn't be the first sexual abuser of hers that she hates sharing, or the first that she fell for, or in this context, the first to ditch her for a pink haired rival.

If so, then how has this affected Maya Prime's words and actions when it comes to Ami? Any Ami.
 
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TBone9

Member
Apr 6, 2023
183
399
It really is crazy how serious the topic of NTR is being treated in this forum.
Like, imagine that someone just registered on here to leave a 1-star review for this game after (as they themselves said) 100 hours of gameplay, simply because a character, who might not even be who we think they are, is getting raped. And calling it classic NTR as well, which is just factually incorrect.
What even a whiff of one NTR-adjacent scene does to these people:
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joryuken

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Sep 19, 2018
114
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if you want to get really technical here, otoha ntr'd the shit out of akira with rin*mind you I already know that rin is basically a really horny bi sexual person*also fuck otoha and just bury her underground that was the worst character selebus could have ever written
 

shmurfer

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Dec 29, 2019
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It could be filling in missing scenes for people who could be invited over but that's boring to speculate about. I mentioned this earlier but if we're assuming these scenes are going to be new content (so first instance of being able to touch / fuck thse characters) then there's fun to be had. Assuming the animations are for characters getting new events in the same update, the only person who we've done any H with here is Maki, so could be a full Maki induction with blowjob and sex and maybe a third thing I can't think of. Or it would probably be one of the characters with 3 events, so Yumi or Uta.
 
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Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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Still, I find it very funny how a LiL player, and porn games players in general could potentially be okay with elements in their stories like cheating, self-harm, violence, gore, drug use, mental disabilities, suicide, murder, torture, etc...but NTR is where they draw the line.
well, because ntr is the only one in that group that causes the corruption of a fantasy fulfillment scenario. I notice that you put ntr and cheating apart from eachother, from which I presume that you're talking ntr as the fetish example of cheating - so that'd make it even more self evident.
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tldr is that ntr is by its very nature different from all of these other tags, from which I draw no surprise at people being able to have problems with it, even if they don't with everything else.
1. The suffering and abuse of others is acceptable and sometimes even desirable, however, the moment the MC, and by extension I myself, risk to suffer the slightest bit of inconvenience, humiliation or loss of control, it becomes an issue so extreme that the author must be sick in his mind to ever consider including such a thing in a work of art.

2. You do not see him as an extension of yourself, most of the time, but as a distinct character with his own desires, needs and thoughts that you follow within a story.

3. I would assume those players see the game differently from "us" and do insert themselves into the role of the MC and do feel like they lose control and are attacked personally when a potential LI is being sexed up by somebody else
1. Exactly, it's about the forced perspective of "the victim".

2. Yes, I also think that Akira being his own character is one of the cornerstones of LiL working.

3. I mean, not necessarily? What you describe might certainly apply to a lot of people, but I think other examples might also be true. I can feel revulsion at Maya being raped because I like Maya as a character, and don't want her to be hurt - regardless of her cheating on Akira or not. Or I can simply abhor cheating as a concept, and would not like to see it (as I'd assume people that don't follow the Haruka storyline do).
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Lesbian "sex" is too hot to count as NTR
I have so much to say about this. So I'll say nothing :ROFLMAO: Waiting for Otoha to get doggystyled/slapped the fuck out of her though, her ass is her one redeeming feature.
 
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Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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Nodoka anythinig
Hear me out: What if the next headpat is with Nodoka? Remember how she hugged Akira and wished she had done that a long time ago? She asked Akira to stop her from researching, what if he does that through the wholesome route?

Edit: And honestly, never saw this coming, and it will be a win for DeSkel for me to say it, but I really hope Nodoka gets some rest. Poor girl deserves it.
 

joryuken

Member
Sep 19, 2018
114
106
well, because ntr is the only one in that group that causes the corruption of a fantasy fulfillment scenario. I notice that you put ntr and cheating apart from eachother, from which I presume that you're talking ntr as the fetish example of cheating - so that'd make it even more self evident.
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tldr is that ntr is by its very nature different from all of these other tags, from which I draw no surprise at people being able to have problems with it, even if they don't with everything else.

1. Exactly, it's about the forced perspective of "the victim".

2. Yes, I also think that Akira being his own character is one of the cornerstones of LiL working.

3. I mean, not necessarily? What you describe might certainly apply to a lot of people, but I think other examples might also be true. I can feel revulsion at Maya being raped because I like Maya as a character, and don't want her to be hurt - regardless of her cheating on Akira or not. Or I can simply abhor cheating as a concept, and would not like to see it (as I'd assume people that don't follow the Haruka storyline do).
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I have so much to say about this. So I'll say nothing :ROFLMAO: Waiting for Otoha to get doggystyled/slapped the fuck out of her though, it's her one redeeming feature.
see moonflare gets me xD
 
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Nov 22, 2021
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It's kind of crazy to think that way back when at the start of the thread that Selebus wanted to let the player give Sensei a name but just didn't for technical and story reasons ("why would students be calling their teacher by his first name / when did he even tell them his name"), then over time this transitioned instead to the lust name system. This is really interesting to think about in terms of self-insertion and how, at this point post ch1 rework, naming Sensei would be unfathomable - what intention with Sensei may have changed in the rework? It is also food for thought when it comes to the very fact that we have ownership of defining Sensei's name/identity only in lustful contexts. Now what thematic resonance might that have?
 
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FireCazador

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May 22, 2020
282
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I have finished the update and i have only 1 way to react to it
1730771557197.png
I really enjoy it with all the things that happened, im really curious how things are going to end what will happen.
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Thinking is exhausting, why things cant be easy to understand. I hope that i will never have to write this much again soon (or ever)
 

DeSkel15

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Sep 29, 2019
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I have finished the update and i have only 1 way to react to it
View attachment 4201493
I really enjoy it with all the things that happened, im really curious how things are going to end what will happen.
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Thinking is exhausting, why things cant be easy to understand. I hope that i will never have to write this much again soon (or ever)
The Ami Prime and Maya from 'Right As Rain' didn't seem to make it to the Halloween Party:
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So, this probably wouldn't fit their timeline:
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Ayane and Yumi may have went pop (from Makoto's perspective) then ended up running into a Maya Prime (during the Reset), then got swallowed by HOPE (during the Reset after reaching that versions roof), though. Ayane having that Maya Prime's scarf, yet memories of the Ayane that went pop would suggest this.

Of course, there's always the possibility that these main versions on the roof are merely new versions with memories and modifications from past main versions to simulate the survival of those past main versions, but who knows.
 
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