Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.49.0] [Selebus]

[barglenarglezous]

you don't get why trying to guess sequences of successive random lists of attack patterns that go as high as 11, and only if you had the foresight to farm enough to get all the special attacks in the first place, all in a game that a large percentage of people would agree would be better without any puzzles, might be annoying?

Nowhere near as annoying as any of the other puzzles in the game.

Old school JRPGs were literally "grind against easy mobs, buy upgrades, use those upgrades to fight harder mobs, buy more upgrades, etc; rinse and repeat until you have all the best items in the game, then go kill Foozle the Evil Wizard."

Hell, Selebus literally gives you a hint by calling it "Sensei Quest" (a callback Dragon Quest) and using the Slime sprite from the Dragon Quest games. An actual hint! He never does those.

We even got a hint about the two junk items that don't do anything -- because Himaraii has told us that "she's not that kind of character," so obviously the two super-expensive "sex scenes" are troll items.

The boss fight is just pattern recognition -- which is also a callback to the old school JRPGs, where boss attacks were usually a set pattern that you had to memorize to counter optimally.

Every other reset puzzle has been painfully obtuse. This one was straightforward with an obvious progression path.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

I enjoy the Reset Puzzles for all the weird shit they contain and also because they feel like genuine obstacles you (and Akira) have to overcome.

During Resets, Akira always runs the risk of losing himself, and often blacks out. I enjoy having a sense of agency and feeling more involved in surviving yet another Reset.

Of course, I’m likely in the minority about that, but that’s why I like them.

I definitely will acknowledge that there are certainly some annoying and damn near impossible tasks without looking into the script or using URM, though. Those coffee questions in Times New Roman, man… Just why?

 

[givemeabeer]

To make use of the post for other stuff, here are some other random bits (mostly from the end of chapter 3):

Wait... That was the end of chapter 3?
So all the story about Sensei trauma appear at the beginning of chapter 4?

Fuck... the chapter 4 is really long and dense!
Chapter 5 gonna be truly interesting, if everything escalate that quickly already.

 

[Moonflare]

Nowhere near as annoying as any of the other puzzles in the game.

Old school JRPGs were literally "grind against easy mobs, buy upgrades, use those upgrades to fight harder mobs, buy more upgrades, etc; rinse and repeat until you have all the best items in the game, then go kill Foozle the Evil Wizard."

Hell, Selebus literally gives you a hint by calling it "Sensei Quest" (a callback Dragon Quest) and using the Slime sprite from the Dragon Quest games. An actual hint! He never does those.

We even got a hint about the two junk items that don't do anything -- because Himaraii has told us that "she's not that kind of character," so obviously the two super-expensive "sex scenes" are troll items.

The boss fight is just pattern recognition -- which is also a callback to the old school JRPGs, where boss attacks were usually a set pattern that you had to memorize to counter optimally.

Every other reset puzzle has been painfully obtuse. This one was straightforward with an obvious progression path.

All I'm getting from this is that you either liked it or found it less annoying than the other ones. Which is valid, but also not the point of what you said in the first place. You said you don't get why I'm saying I found them annoying, to which I replied about why I do, and then you further reply with "but that's just the way old j-rpgs work". Well, I'm not playing an old j-rpg, I'm playing a game that I wish didn't have any puzzles.

One does not have to agree with someone's opinion to get them. If you really can't understand why someone would find sensei-quest annoying, then I don't know what to tell you. I get why people like the puzzles, I, however, operate from the notion that I wish this game played like a book that I could just read. There's no right way to feel about things here imo.

 

[hopeisdead6969]

I think it’s pretty clear that the author of this game utilizes a classic form of the hetstinkypoopenmannen approach to writing, while applying the more modernist shittenheaden ideals to his squirtenprose.

But that’s just one man’s opinion.

 

[Moonflare]

Still waiting for the rock mystery to be solved:

Spoiler: Remember to smile

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[hopeisdead6969]

Still waiting for the rock mystery to be solved:

Spoiler: Remember to smile

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Is that actually Ayane in that scene, or is it Himawari? Or do we know for sure?

 

[Moonflare]

Is that actually Ayane in that scene, or is it Himawari? Or do we know for sure?

Hard to say, because it happens before he leaves the room aka during his blackout. That would point to it happening inside of his head, but then "Ayane" says a lot of stuff that he wouldn't know about. I don't know. Our Ayane certainly had nothing to do with it since she goes straight from the karaoke room to the roof, and that "Ayane" was on the roof alone for 35 days. Either Himawari will one day reference it, or I fear it will be just another of those things left forgotten.
------------------------------------
On the other hand, I need about a thousand hugs. Goddamn it, I'm running out of tears again.

Spoiler: Remember to smile

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[hopeisdead6969]

Hard to say, because it happens before he leaves the room aka during his blackout. That would point to it happening inside of his head, but then "Ayane" says a lot of stuff that he wouldn't know about. I don't know. Our Ayane certainly had nothing to do with it since she goes straight from the karaoke room to the roof, and that "Ayane" was on the roof alone for 35 days. Either Himawari will one day reference it, or I fear it will be just another of those things left forgotten.
------------------------------------
On the other hand, I need about a thousand hugs. Goddamn it, I'm running out of tears again.

Spoiler: Remember to smile

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I was thinking that was when that went happened, which is why I thought it might not be the real her. I hope it comes up again, too, because it’s such a strange and specific series of events and lines.

EDIT: Also, HUGS!

 

[givemeabeer]

Hard to say, because it happens before he leaves the room aka during his blackout. That would point to it happening inside of his head, but then "Ayane" says a lot of stuff that he wouldn't know about. I don't know. Our Ayane certainly had nothing to do with it since she goes straight from the karaoke room to the roof, and that "Ayane" was on the roof alone for 35 days. Either Himawari will one day reference it, or I fear it will be just another of those things left forgotten.
------------------------------------
On the other hand, I need about a thousand hugs. Goddamn it, I'm running out of tears again.

Spoiler: Remember to smile

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I have the same 3 screenshots.

Well, I guess we're not alone...

Oh, and, PrayForMaya. Of course.

 

[shmurfer]

Wait... That was the end of chapter 3?
So all the story about Sensei trauma appear at the beginning of chapter 4?

Fuck... the chapter 4 is really long and dense!
Chapter 5 gonna be truly interesting, if everything escalate that quickly already.

Spoiler: This is the final image of Chapter 3 (other than the endcard)

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[Moonflare]

Wait a minute, is this new? I remember reading those words, but I don't recall it being like this (first picture).

Spoiler: On the count of three/not the nightingale

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I think it could also be a case of not showing up in replay, but let's see if someone remembers it.

 

[Apollo259]

Regarding Yumi's tsundere nature. I get the impression that its more of a borderline thing than full on tsundere. Its not that she already likes him at the start of the game. Its that she wants to rely on him. (I'm pretty sure the game outright says this at some point) Not necessarily as a love interest at first, but just a person that wont give up on, or abandon/hurt her. Its a struggle between wanting to rely on him/trust him, but over and over seeing and learning things about him that scream to her that she should not. She learns these things and it upsets her, I don't think its entirely because she learns he might love someone else as you would expect from a jealous tsundere, but more that she learns he is a predator and keeps seeing things that confirm it to her. It's that repeated destruction of what in her mind she wanted him to be. Over and over again she reconciles something he did and he does something else. But in much the same way that she seems to still love her mum despite it all. She still wants to rely on Akira despite everything she learns about who he is. The struggle is the conflict between knowing what he is and that he will inevitably hurt her. The fear of that. But still caring about him despite everything and her having no idea what to do about it. Throw in the teenage hormones to further complicate it, as well as other things I did not mention. Then you end up with a character that I don't think is actually tsundere in the traditional sense.

Perhaps that all still fits under the tsundere umbrella and I'm just holding an umbrella that's been mangled by the wind without realising it. In which case this post is probably strange to read if I have managed to described tsundere while saying its not entirely tsundere. But I guess writing in depth characters makes it harder if not silly to encompass them in single archetypal categories anyway. So maybe it was pointless for me to type this out and post it in the first place?

 

[Moonflare]

Regarding Yumi's tsundere nature. I get the impression that its more of a borderline thing than full on tsundere. Its not that she already likes him at the start of the game. Its that she wants to rely on him. (I'm pretty sure the game outright says this at some point) Not necessarily as a love interest at first, but just a person that wont give up on, or abandon/hurt her. Its a struggle between wanting to rely on him/trust him, but over and over seeing and learning things about him that scream to her that she should not. She learns these things and it upsets her, I don't think its entirely because she learns he might love someone else as you would expect from a jealous tsundere, but more that she learns he is a predator and keeps seeing things that confirm it to her. It's that repeated destruction of what in her mind she wanted him to be. Over and over again she reconciles something he did and he does something else. But in much the same way that she seems to still love her mum despite it all. She still wants to rely on Akira despite everything she learns about who he is. The struggle is the conflict between knowing what he is and that he will inevitably hurt her. The fear of that. But still caring about him despite everything and her having no idea what to do about it. Throw in the teenage hormones to further complicate it, as well as other things I did not mention. Then you end up with a character that I don't think is actually tsundere in the traditional sense.

Perhaps that all still fits under the tsundere umbrella and I'm just holding an umbrella that's been mangled by the wind without realising it. In which case this post is probably strange to read if I have managed to described tsundere while saying its not entirely tsundere. But I guess writing in depth characters makes it harder if not silly to encompass them in single archetypal categories anyway. So maybe it was pointless for me to type this out and post it in the first place?

I think what you're trying to say is that she's a "realistic" tsundere, which means that it's less of an archetype, and more of her having actual legitimate reasons for both wanting to be near Akira and hating that she does. Which leads to the love/hate not out of "charm", or a character she's playing, but an actual fucked up situation of finding yourself desiring someone you really rather didn't.

Spoiler: 3rd dormwars

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Edit: Also, their children would very likely have silver eyes, since both of them do.

 

[Apollo259]

Wait a minute, is this new? I remember reading those words, but I don't recall it being like this (first picture).

Spoiler: On the count of three/not the nightingale

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I think it could also be a case of not showing up in replay, but let's see if someone remembers it.

I'm pretty sure I remember it from when I first played it. Either way it is excluded from the replay. Which explains why I could never find it again, I just assumed I forgot what event it was in.

Spoiler: $ renpy.end_replay

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Edit: I guess you could look in an older version of the game and see if "proboscis.webp/png" is in the files to confirm.

 

[shmurfer]

I've been trying to have saves for each bit of content that is outside of replays but I gotta clue into the fact that something breaks tradition like having affection scores given and then extra scenes appear.

 

[VoidExile]

Day 36 character count 21568.

Spoiler: Day 486-500, some reactions, thoughts and questions

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Spoiler: Tierlist

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[givemeabeer]

To stay on the Yumi topic, strangely, I never see any «love», at the beginning, on her part for Sensei.
For me, she's seeking for «attention», but a good attention, and not a physical one.

And she get it when Sensei «try» to help her getting a job. And, for me, that's the moment where a connection, and maybe some love, appear.
And when she saw Makoto with Sensei in the park, she wasn't jealous, but «envious». Because, at that scene in the park, what happen? Nothing. They aren't fucking. Nor kissing. They're barely just talking. (If my memory don't fuck me up again!)
All what Yumi ever wanted. Someone who can hear her out. Someone she can «trust». Someone who can be proud of her.

And, since Sensei isn't exactly what she need, but may be, she help him when he black-out. That's why she stay around when it happen. Not by «love», but with the hope that, if she support/help him, he might be able to support/help her.

Anyway, at least, that's how I see her.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Also, like all of the girls in this game, she have some insecurities. Maybe it's the age, but since I've never be a teenager myself, I don't know what's relevant or not.

 

[hopeisdead6969]

To stay on the Yumi topic, strangely, I never see any «love», at the beginning, on her part for Sensei.
For me, she's seeking for «attention», but a good attention, and not a physical one.

And she get it when Sensei «try» to help her getting a job. And, for me, that's the moment where a connection, and maybe some love, appear.
And when she saw Makoto with Sensei in the park, she wasn't jealous, but «envious». Because, at that scene in the park, what happen? Nothing. They aren't fucking. Nor kissing. They're barely just talking. (If my memory don't fuck me up again!)
All what Yumi ever wanted. Someone who can hear her out. Someone she can «trust». Someone who can be proud of her.

And, since Sensei isn't exactly what she need, but may be, she help him when he black-out. That's why she stay around when it happen. Not by «love», but with the hope that, if she support/help him, he might be able to support/help her.

Anyway, at least, that's how I see her.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Also, like all of the girls in this game, she have some insecurities. Maybe it's the age, but since I've never be a teenager myself, I don't know what's relevant or not.

Also, given how young and insecure she is, I doubt she is aware of those sorts of things you mentioned for the most part, and is instead working off a cocktail of hormones and instincts. Its like, she knows she doesn't want physical stuff, but she kisses Sensei back in "This Town Has Two Halves", and she knows he's manipulative and dangerous, but she let's him get closer and help her job search alone in her room, so I feel like she is a walking contradiction in terms of what she wants. And I think its because she isn't mature enough to understand everything she's feeling and wanting and doing. That's what makes her feel nuanced and interesting, instead of just being a trope.

 

[givemeabeer]

Also, given how young and insecure she is, I doubt she is aware of those sorts of things you mentioned for the most part, and is instead working off a cocktail of hormones and instincts. Its like, she knows she doesn't want physical stuff, but she kisses Sensei back in "This Town Has Two Halves", and she knows he's manipulative and dangerous, but she let's him get closer and help her job search alone in her room, so I feel like she is a walking contradiction in terms of what she wants. And I think its because she isn't mature enough to understand everything she's feeling and wanting and doing. That's what makes her feel nuanced and interesting, instead of just being a trope.

I don't remember her kissing him back in that event. He assault her and she «let» it happen, yes, but nothing more. Or I misread it, but I have big doubt.
Also, I don't agree about Sensei being manipulative and dangerous. In chapter 1 and 2, especially, but even now in chapter 4. He is a child. And that contrast with his student who are, for most of them, much more «mature» and responsible than him.
He rely too much on his students. Makoto, Touka and Maya were the most «important» at helping him. Even Nodoka, at one moment, when Chika and Touka did a «strip-tease» in his room, he seek her help to «solve» this issues.

For the rest of your post, even if I don't agree with it, I can't say you're wrong, just : «I don't see it that way».
And it's always interresting.