Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.49.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

(Usually my posts are structured, so mind that this one is just a very big ramble. Some of the points I raise may be interesting, but you won't miss much by skipping it.)

Spoiler: general thoughts about the update

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Anyway, I think the healthiest path forward is dismissing the entire update as something that ought to be thought about. Maybe in the future its status as a weird fever dream will get diluted by (one hopes) better pieces of writing before and after. Rather than a single bizarre update consumed on its own.

Edit: Eventually I may address each individual event, but honestly I'm just having more fun on my second playthrough of TLS than engaging with it for a second time. Never before have I thought about stopping playing LiL, but it did happen during 0.49.

 

[thebadpastor]

Sana's situation is quite peculiar though, because she's just lost. However, the degree to which she's lost is now linked to the green path. Her and Molly only pull out the invite if Akira has been having sex with Ami, Sara and Haruka. All three. Which means that realistically nothing can come out of this, there are just way too many possible paths.

I hadn't really thought about it but you raise a good point, it's hard to imagine much deeply significant can come directly from Sana's actions here since it's entirely missable and not something that can just result in some dialogue variation. Maybe Sara will just be distant until the next reset and we'll just get memory fuckery as an excuse? Or just...chooses to ignore things? Blocks it out? Decides "well my daughter's adorable and I fucked my teacher so enjoy her pussy"? It'd be weird but still less out of character than most of Nodokathon 2.0 lol

I dunno, my brain's still flip-flopping on this update. I think I'm just gonna get back to playthrough #3 and pretend 0.49 started and ended with the omelette showdown rather than spend the next 2 months chewing on Nodokathon lol

 

[Talishan]

Unfortunately, hatred blinds people, and this time the blame lies with the girls and not Nodoka, who didn't force anyone.

This chapter will last for a few more years, so it will take a long time.

Well Nodokathon didn't even happen in my playthrough. Maybe if you try to go all green, which is essentially enabling some of the worst possible scenes, your events end up with the worst possible outcome. This was quite a wholesome update for me, I enjoyed it a lot and nothing bad happened at all outside of the usual, which was honestly quite surprising. Nodoka herself was quite well behaved this time around and Sana didn't do anything bad in my game.

 

[Hungnoxu]

Man. I'm only at the first reset and seriously in love with Rin rn. Btw, should I also focus on raising lust points? Its seems like there r lots of insteresting scenes locked behind it

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Man. I'm only at the first reset and seriously in love with Rin rn. Btw, should I also focus on raising lust points? Its seems like there r lots of insteresting scenes locked behind it

Yeah, just keep farming lust points. 20 is okay at the beginning

 

[daagagsdgd]

Theory: the SEKAI story about a man whose parents forced him to hide his true sexuality is actually about Akira's sexual attraction to office furniture and articles of clothing.

You joke, yet Akira's obsession to inanimate objects really grows more and more verisimilar every day.

Spoiler: Lessons in Desk

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[Hungnoxu]

Yeah, just keep farming lust points. 20 is okay at the beginning

so if I'm currently need both affection and lust points to get events. Then which one should I focus on then?

 

[thebadpastor]

You joke, yet Akira's obsession to inanimate objects really grows more and more verisimilar every day.

Spoiler: Lessons in Desk

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Shit, maybe Io is the girl for him after all

 

[hcguy]

Spoiler: reflection and speculation

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There are not multiple paths in this game - there is one path, which you are either on or off.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

I agree with you guys, the writing has been shit lately and that's despite Selebus having more free time to work on them, what a damn shame!
At least he reached his goal of 3 million words written, good job Selly such a talented solo dev.

 

[Detective Dc345]

You joke, yet Akira's obsession to inanimate objects really grows more and more verisimilar every day.

Spoiler: Lessons in Desk

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Socks, desks, buckets, watermelons, doors, cabinets. Sensei is the embodiment if there's a hole there's a way.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Here's what Selebus should've done:

Double down on Nodoka being a villain, instead of having Sana willingly drag her mother into this, blackmail her into doing so while she cries knowing that her Mom will see her being a nymphomaniac. (I know it sounds evil, but you guys would love shit going next level)

There is currently a "godly intervention" plot device being used to justify the girls getting extremely horny and irrational but it has been overused too much. This has resulted in the assassination of characters like Chika and Sana.

The truth is that Selebus is simply afraid to move things too quickly and making mistakes, because he's a dumb fucking idiot and wants to drag the story for some sort of world record.

He said in the past that he created characters that no longer require writing for, because they write themselves. This is correct, the problem is that he is now interfering with their own natural progression as well, and it's all because he has the need to put his own spice of writing into situations that do not require it. He has Light Yagami syndrome and his ego is destroying the gift he posseses, he's a very frustrating person and sometimes I just wish he got hit by a truck.

Selebus, you lost your spark and you're a pussy, make the chapter go DARK, and admit that you need help.

 

[throwawaysponge]

(Usually my posts are structured, so mind that this one is just a very big ramble. Some of the points I raise may be interesting, but you won't miss much by skipping it.)

Spoiler: general thoughts about the update

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Anyway, I think the healthiest path forward is dismissing the entire update as something that ought to be thought about. Maybe in the future its status as a weird fever dream will get diluted by (one hopes) better pieces of writing before and after. Rather than a single bizarre update consumed on its own.

Edit: Eventually I may address each individual event, but honestly I'm just having more fun on my second playthrough of TLS than engaging with it for a second time. Never before have I thought about stopping playing LiL, but it did happen during 0.49.

Spoiler: Reacterino

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in a conceptual world without, many men in a story driven by sex, sometimes they might not want to lose that option on the assumption Akira is naturally great at it.

in any case im waiting to see nodokathon 2 and really hoping it's not as shit as everyone is saying.

 

[Budoop]

I didn't think that she would even be an option, since it feels like the game has been trying to force a different girl on Akira the entire time. I was pleasantly surprised.

Spoiler

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is honestly the least desirable girl in this entire game aside from the wizards IMO, so that was kind of annoying. Maybe that's the point, Sel tries to poke people constantly.

Ayane's had a decent amount of a sort of... 'underlying' appearance recently tbh, like she comes up in places you wouldn't expect.

I've got my own sort of "Sensei winners ranking" in my head and I keep finding myself bumping Ayane up over time.

As for Maya I actually quite like her, obviously this 'iteration' of her is miles weaker than the one we got to know through seasons 1 - 3 but I think watching her try and find herself could be a very interesting story and I like that she's opening up quickly to things we wouldn't expect.
I do hope we got OG Maya back though, whether its just a case of her remembering or whether its an alternate universe thing I can't say.

As for the whole writing go down thing other people are on about I honestly don't think I'd say the writing is getting worse at least not personally, sure there's some things here and there that don't hit too hard or fumble our expectations but there's still a lot of good stuff.
Stomache wasn't even that long ago but it was well done, and IOs first kiss is adorable.
Yumi's recent events have almost all been bangars, and I love Touka as a whole.

I worry we brigade the "quality" of the writing just because there's an event or two we don't like.
Until we get to a point where nothing is well written for an extended period I won't call it a degradation myself, especially cause dry spots are always going to be a thing.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

in any case im waiting to see nodokathon 2 and really hoping it's not as shit as everyone is saying.

I don't think it's shit, I think it could've been way better

 

[flacc2pit]

When a story revolves around perception, identity, and reality, and how those three influence each other, it is easy to lose the suspension of disbelief for the reader. So far Sel has done a great job writing a story that deals with metaphysical reality questioning themes. I agree with Moonflare and others about this update feeling worse than Sel's standard, and for me this is largely due to my suspension of disbelief growing weak from certain reactions of the characters in this update. In a narrative with a fluid sense of reality, the character's identities have to contain a certian level a nuance, and I feel like this update in particular simplified characters rather than build upon their nuance. My suspension of disbelief isn't shattered yet, I feel like how good/bad this update is hinges on what happens immediately after in .5, but I fear that certain aspects of this update will be ignored when they need to not be. Update reminds me a lot of Heavenly Delusion for those who have seen it, and I'm not too big of a fan with how that manga/anime spent little time on the immediate aftermath of its most notable traumatic incident.

 

[Budoop]

When a story revolves around perception, identity, and reality, and how those three influence each other, it is easy to lose that suspension of disbelief. So far Sel has done a great job writing a story that deals with metaphysical reality questioning themes. I agree with Moonflare and others about this update feeling worse than Sel's standard, and for me this is largely due to my suspension of disbelief growing weak from certain reactions of the characters in this update. In a narrative with a fluid sense of reality, the character's identities have to contain a certian level a nuance, and I feel like this update in particular simplified characters rather than build upon their nuance. My suspension of disbelief isn't shattered yet, I feel like how good/bad this update is hinges on what happens immediately after in .5, but I fear that certain aspects of this update will be ignored when they need to not be. Update reminds me a lot of Heavenly Delusion for those who have seen it, and I'm not too big of a fan with how that manga/anime spent little time on the immediate aftermath of its most notable traumatic incident.

My suspension of disbelief is itself suspended a bit because we KNOW that the gods can influence the actions and thoughts of the characters.
Given the nature of Nodokathon 2 its almost certain that the characters weren't fully "with it" while it was ongoing, especially considering how Nodoka considers it a failure as her hypothesis proved untrue.

 

[Talishan]

Ayane's had a decent amount of a sort of... 'underlying' appearance recently tbh, like she comes up in places you wouldn't expect.

I've got my own sort of "Sensei winners ranking" in my head and I keep finding myself bumping Ayane up over time.

As for Maya I actually quite like her, obviously this 'iteration' of her is miles weaker than the one we got to know through seasons 1 - 3 but I think watching her try and find herself could be a very interesting story and I like that she's opening up quickly to things we wouldn't expect.
I do hope we got OG Maya back though, whether its just a case of her remembering or whether its an alternate universe thing I can't say.

As for the whole writing go down thing other people are on about I honestly don't think I'd say the writing is getting worse at least not personally, sure there's some things here and there that don't hit too hard or fumble our expectations but there's still a lot of good stuff.
Stomache wasn't even that long ago but it was well done, and IOs first kiss is adorable.
Yumi's recent events have almost all been bangars, and I love Touka as a whole.

I worry we brigade the "quality" of the writing just because there's an event or two we don't like.
Until we get to a point where nothing is well written for an extended period I won't call it a degradation myself, especially cause dry spots are always going to be a thing.

Yeah I don't know about WE. I think the writing has been 100% consistent the entire way through. The problem from my end of things is that this appears to be written by someone with depression and psychosis who doesn't actually realize they have these issues. Alternatively they realize they have these issues but are actively antagonizing people who have these issues and don't realize it. If neither of these are actually the case then I don't know what Sel could possibly be other than an absolute psychopath who is broken beyond repair.

 

[flacc2pit]

My suspension of disbelief is itself suspended a bit because we KNOW that the gods can influence the actions and thoughts of the characters.
Given the nature of Nodokathon 2 its almost certain that the characters weren't fully "with it" while it was ongoing, especially considering how Nodoka considers it a failure as her hypothesis proved untrue.

Sel has made how "with it" or not characters are clear in the past, with either visual distortions or alterations in syntactical tendencies, and when it wasn't clear the obfuscation tended to be intentful. Recently, especially in this update, the only indications we have that characters aren't quite there is what they say or do, not how. It's easier to get whiplash from the subversion of short term reasonable expectations the way Sel did it this update. Putting a different way, how long / consistently to do you feel like your suspension of your suspension of disbelief ought to be? How long does the reader have to suspend their suspension of disbelief before the essence or meaning of LiL changes completely? Just because everything in this update makes sense with the rules Sel gives us doesn't mean it's as impactful. Past turmoil was both heavy hitting and well placed, the weight of the narrative blow hits hard, but this update contains heavy content without the expert placement that events like Stomachache has, and I would argue it's due to the lack of visceral on screen reaction from participants and bystanders, not the plot beat itself. A heavy punch that grazes this update is, not a knockout punch like past climactic events. Looking forward to next update, I trust Sel to make it work, but for the longest update in the game's history it reads as incomplete, uncommon for Sel imo. Think Moonflare's post put this idea better, but this update definitely gave me reason to pause instead of continue more than any other, though I've only been reading live since .35 so maybe early updates also had this air of ending in media res.

 

[SlidingSubject]

Yeah I don't know about WE. I think the writing has been 100% consistent the entire way through. The problem from my end of things is that this appears to be written by someone with depression and psychosis who doesn't actually realize they have these issues. Alternatively they realize they have these issues but are actively antagonizing people who have these issues and don't realize it. If neither of these are actually the case then I don't know what Sel could possibly be other than an absolute psychopath who is broken beyond repair.

That's the beauty of it, there could be better or worse options, but we don't know. Also, why this update exists considering he's very particular about his "magnum opus" is a mystery. Either he's losing it (subject deliberately left vague) or he thinks this fits in his grand vision.