Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.49.0] [Selebus]

[Hungnoxu]

Wow, Sel really knows how to start Chapter 3 after all the fun in Chapter 2, huh? Damn... this is gonna be a wild ride for me

 

[hopeisdead6969]

Wow, what an underwhelming update. Not a huge surprise, as I feel a lot of Chapter 4 has been that way. Some have pointed out its lack of proper pacing and lack of hard hitting events. The event where Rika takes his phone was one of the only times I've had a "Oh shit" moment in quite a while with LiL, and its a shame, but not the end of the world.

If you want my take on what's going on with Sel as a writer, click the spoiler below.

For TL;DR: Sel is pushing through an area of his story where very little planning was done and is very hit and miss with updates and scenes due to this. I hope he gets an editor (LUL) or at least goes back and edits Chapter 4 in the future, kinda like how Chapter 1 was.

Spoiler: Writer Analysis

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Squalicorax]

I wouldn't call that proof of realism, if the fridge-shampoo was a hallucination to begin with then Sensei could simply be hallucinating he still has it because he took it lol

I don't think he went through and murdered the rest of them. None of them are aged up like Sana was in the house to match the time-skip, Ami is there despite being dead and he shoots Ayane multiple times without her reacting - plus he wakes up to find he's still in the house before waking up properly on the roof for the actual reset. I think the Paper Town segment is in his head and purely symbolic.

I think most of Paper City is purely symbolic, but I think the framing device is of note, and what made me think there was weird world shenanigans in the first place. Not the going around shooting people part, but this part:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Basically, I think that while the event is largely symbolic, I think the part about Akira being missing is interesting, and I'm actually not confident it's connected directly to Times New Roman. There's obviously the Ami bit you've mentioned, but the whole framing device around the class writing a card for Akira seems like a different event unrelated to the Ami death timeline. The class doesn't seem to understand why he's missing, Ami's the one having them write the card, the murder scene is at the dorms, the whole class, including sana, are young, etc. Ayane also mentions she's "chased him across Paper City for years on end" and "endured apocalypse after apocalypse." which I think is the single biggest killer for there being any connection to Times New Roman since the loops have continued for this version of Ayane.

 

[Yog'Sothoth]

Before I commit to playing what looks like another huge-ass game, can someone confirm me a few things? Mainly just how is the "horror" tag in this game, that is, how far does it go? Also, do we have the option of a harem route or we have to choose between a couple girls?

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Before I commit to playing what looks like another huge-ass game, can someone confirm me a few things? Mainly just how is the "horror" tag in this game, that is, how far does it go? Also, do we have the option of a harem route or we have to choose between a couple girls?

Not that big, though, at the start, it would be a bit terrifying for people who didn't expect "paranormal" stuff in this VN (hi, it was me). But eventually, you'll get used to it. Also, the developer will stop trying to make it horrific. But it can be uncomfortable sometimes, yes.
There are no real routes in the game. It's a straightforward game. The only choices are whether to see or miss certain events.

 

[shmurfer]

Since Times New Roman actually happened in alternate world. What do u guys think of Paper Town? Did Sensei really go through and murder the rest of them to reset the world or something? The event clearly happened in some level of realism cause you keep the shampoo if u pick it up and can lose it on next reset. ( Though I guess Maya was murdered in Paper Town but was alive in the rooftop )

At risk of putting braincells into a sensei reset trip. Kaori and Nao-chan still existed as not paper people.

Before I commit to playing what looks like another huge-ass game, can someone confirm me a few things? Mainly just how is the "horror" tag in this game, that is, how far does it go? Also, do we have the option of a harem route or we have to choose between a couple girls?

Out of a few missable events you have to see every event the game throws at you. You can't pick a single girl. There's a few facades at the start of the game and most of the horror comes from that. The game is designed to filter people the dev doesn't want to play, even if they're probably going a bit too far. Give it a go, if you like it you'll be ruined for other VN devs not being nearly as good at writing.


Get the guide mod, pretty much non negotiable. AutoVN if you will quit over the grinding.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

Before I commit to playing what looks like another huge-ass game, can someone confirm me a few things? Mainly just how is the "horror" tag in this game, that is, how far does it go? Also, do we have the option of a harem route or we have to choose between a couple girls?

There's some scenes some people would definitely find disturbing in it but it's psychological horror more than anything, it's not gory or filled with monsters and jumpscares or anything lol a couple of the most disturbing ones occur very early in so if it's something that would ward you off you'll be able to figure it out before you've wasted too much time.

 

[Moonflare]

This is a story about a dude that kills himself and yet "reincarnates" in the body of a highschool teacher. This strange reality he finds himself is in a time-loop of every few months, and every girl is interested in him more or less. All the benefits and no repercussions basically.

The only minor setback to it all are some bizarre dreams/hallucinations that happen to him from time to time. Mostly involving some deranged imagery that blends taboo sexuality and religion.

Thus, the horror comes from two sources: the lost memories of himself/the new body he's in (personal mindfuck), and the random crap that tries to traumatize everyone (general mindfuck).

Other than that, the game is linear, you have to engage with everyone. It will present you with choices sometimes, but by choosing not to follow the "complete" road, you'll only miss content, not really be presented with a diverging path that is as complete. This is also a story about the mc, which is most certainly not the player, but his own person (as it becomes increasingly clear).

 

[flacc2pit]

This is a story about a dude that kills himself and yet "reincarnates" in the body of a highschool teacher. This strange reality he finds himself is in a time-loop of every few months, and every girl is interested in him more or less. All the benefits and no repercussions basically.

Been about 2 years now (wow) since I played chapter 1, is him killing himself really said at the very beginning of the game or is that one of the many headcanons/theories regarding the timeline of this story post-Kyoto/Chapter 3 and 4 revelations?

 

[Moonflare]

Been about 2 years now (wow) since I played chapter 1, is him killing himself really said at the very beginning of the game or is that one of the many headcanons/theories regarding the timeline of this story post-Kyoto/Chapter 3 and 4 revelations?

Selebus has said so when comparing LiL to some other game. But in-game no, no real confirmation as of yet.

Spoiler: screenshot

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Edit: Also, unrelated but somewhat interesting:

Spoiler: Nodoka, Selebus and a lizard

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Squalicorax]

Been about 2 years now (wow) since I played chapter 1, is him killing himself really said at the very beginning of the game or is that one of the many headcanons/theories regarding the timeline of this story post-Kyoto/Chapter 3 and 4 revelations?

It's heavily implied by the introduction to the game, and becomes all but outright confirmed in later events.
Here's a screenshot I have handy from a major early event just because I was talking about it a couple days ago:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I think there's stuff more explicit than that as well but I'm drawing a blank.

 

[Moonflare]

I think there's stuff more explicit than that as well but I'm drawing a blank.

There is. When you're going around with Niki, and she takes you to a random street where (we assume) the accident happened, she tells Akira that "this is where you jumped". The use of "jump" here is odd, given that he was either in the car or out of it, "jumping" wouldn't be the first word to describe either scenario. It could be that it was the place where he jumped to death instead.

Other than that, I think it's mostly happy events. "Perfect Harmony" and "Perfect hair forever" both make reference to him leaving another place to come to Kumon-mi, but that's not necessarily linked to suicide.

 

[BlackDays]

I was told, because i had the same thought it was a silent reference to him jumping, that Niki actually meant that he "startled" in that events moment.

The other thing,
as far as i remember Akira talks with Rin (at leat i think it was Rin) in some event and says that he killed himself or jumped from the roof.

 

[flacc2pit]

Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.

 

[Moonflare]

Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.

I agree with you but that's unfortunately where we're at. I suggest you watch the commentaries to both "Il cervo" and "Times new roman" and you'll get way less invested in Selebus actually knowing what he's doing, or even giving meaning to the things he writes.

As for what he says in discord, I can't speak for everything he says, but the things that are not jokes have never been in contradiction, no (to my knowledge). Himawari's "name" (the Himawari title i mean) for instance, has been revealed and confirmed outside the game.

 

[hopeisdead6969]

Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.

Spoiler: Long-ass Reply

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[jclark1337]

Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.

In short: yes he trolls and contradicts himself all the time. He has a penchant for platforming and offering up ridiculous theories in order to throw people off and obfuscate whether or not we are supposed to believe his words.

Also, while I totally agree that explicitly confirming Sensei did kill himself in the beginning scene of the game could potentially weaken the narrative meaning of the story as a whole, the idea itself isnt inherently problematic within the framework of the story and including elements we've discovered up until now. Just because Sensei may have successfully committed suicide before the start of the story doesn't mean that is the beginning thread and that nothing was fucked before that.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Riolol]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[flacc2pit]

In short: yes he trolls and contradicts himself all the time. He has a penchant for platforming and offering ridiculous theories in order to throw people off and obfuscate whether or not we are supposed to believe his words.

Also, while I totally agree that explicitly confirming Sensei did kill himself in the beginning scene of the game could potentially weaken the narrative meaning of the story as a whole, the idea itself isnt inherently problematic within the framework of the story and including elements we've discovered up until now. Just because Sensei may have successfully committed suicide before the start of the story doesn't mean that is the beginning thread and that nothing was fucked before that.]

I'm in rough agreement with you overall, but it's precisely how the suicide relates to other overarching ideas/theories/possible out of Kumon-Mi that inspired my hesitation to readily accept it. It kinda pigeon holes certian less abstract questions or unclear developments into being a certain way to allow for a suicide start to not only make sense, but also be impactful / "good writing." Putting it another way, if the suicide start is ultimately what we're working with, coming to that revelation in text due to several other less major or less individually impactful smaller mysteries being solved/revealed in the text would almost work really well. Resolving the metaphysical state of the setting or any open ended idea from the bottom up instead of top down is always more impactful, allows for the themes and character implications to resonate more, and this idea of a suicide start being acknowledged before confirmafion for all the pieces would that make it work goes directly against that. Gives a a sort of trickle down effect for theory crafting / thematic signifigance, very unsatisfying.

 

[jclark1337]

I'm in rough agreement with you overall, but it's precisely how the suicide relates to other overarching ideas/theories/possible out of Kumon-Mi that inspired my hesitation to readily accept it. It kinda pigeon holes certian less abstract questions or unclear developments into being a certain way to allow for a suicide start to not only make sense, but also be impactful / "good writing." Putting it another way, if the suicide start is ultimately what we're working with, coming to that revelation in text due to several other less major or less individually impactful smaller mysteries being solved/revealed in the text would almost work really well. Resolving the metaphysical state of the setting or any open ended idea from the bottom up instead of top down is always more impactful, allows for the themes and character implications to resonate more, and this idea of a suicide start being acknowledged before confirmafion for all the pieces would that make it work goes directly against that. Gives a a sort of trickle down effect for theory crafting / thematic signifigance, very unsatisfying.

Fair points, but I dare to say that the story works really well using the implied suicide as a baseline and giving us a solid starting point into Sensei's psyche.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.