Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.49.0] [Selebus]

[ugoughi90]

Yeah, I also don't think Ami was aware at that time, but I think Ami Prime is always there, inside her. How I see it, early Ami knows something is off, and she forces herself a little to act more sweet and dense than she really is as her defense mechanism and her way to fit in the group. She still an airhead, but not that "airhead". She is a little bit manipulative from the start and full of lust for Akira, she just controls herself a little bit to be seen more "normal". It's only after she starts to read Sekai poetry that she lets herself loose.

In a way, Ami is always Ami Prime, but Ami Prime is not always Ami. The manipulation, the insecurities and, above all, the intrusive thoughts are there from the start, but for them to take full control there is a trigger, her memories, and those also have a trigger, that someone clears the lingering feeling that something is off. The moment Makoto tells Ami about the resets, the moment the fog banishes from Ami head, and it's replaced by her clean memories, knowledge about the world and understanding of her own actions. Ami put two and two together and knows she has been ready for the rumble since day one. The good news there must be a way to stop her. If Maya Prime wrote about not telling Ami about the resets, is because she experienced it, and in some way she, or something else, sealed her away.

I was pondering about the same thing. My second playthrough is still stuck to the 2nd chapter because i hardly have time to play, but i don’t feel like Ami have always been Ami Prime, but it was more like sudden sensations and memories came back to her, only to be put in the back of her head until the next ones happened.

Spoiler: Spoiler for the end of Chapter 3 and following events

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[TheGoodPastor]

Spoiler: Spoiler for the end of Chapter 3 and following events

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Yeah, you're misremembering the order of events. Makoto tries to talk to Ami about the resets (through texts) almost immediately after she herself finds out about them, well before Times New Roman and the disappearance of Maya Prime. From there is where Ami slowly starts to act more clingy and unhinged - accusing Ayane and Maya of tricking and ditching her into the old district, interrogating Sensei about how he's spending his time and that kind of behaviour. That all happens throughout Chapter 3, then it's Times New Roman and into the sadness coma.

 

[Riolol]

So if Ami has not been Ami Prime the entire time, when exactly do you think she was swapped out? Presumably during one of the resets or time skips. It's seems odd nobody noticed she changed. Saying that I do remember a few complaints about her acting out of character before we knew all this.

 

[Leoxsama]

Adding more to questioning early Ami's awareness toward resets

Spoiler: Reset2

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But let's forget about that too. This is a very good starting point for me to express just how shaky speculation about “Ami has always been Ami Prime” really is to me; not via entry points like "awareness of fuckery" or "knowledge of resets" like you did there, but just via "personalities", my sole struggle in believing the said speculation.

Sure, Ami is the queen of the unhinged, creepy, and lore-heavy; always has been. But at the same time, back in Ch1, she was predominantly, consistently just a sweet and genuine airhead, especially towards her friends. With every scene you find Ami being suspicious of something during your Nth playthrough, comes 10 other scenes that would suggest otherwise but go unnoticed. Even if she gradually becomes more maniacal and unexplainable as story progresses, early Ami's personality is still in such a big contrast when compared with just how full-blown vicious Ami Prime is. To demonstrate, I hand picked a few moments to pose as a challenge for all that believes “Ami has always been Ami Prime”.

Spoiler: Challenges

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All of these moments revolve around Maya to a certain extent deliberately to make a contrast to how Ami Prime's been treating Nu Maya, and the challenge itself is that you have to look at these moment and convince yourself "yuuuup this is definitely Ami Prime in disguise. 100%. She's lying and hiding I can totally see it.". While concealing her presence from Maya Prime sounds quite possible and hardly far-fetched, this would mean that I inadvertently have to believe that early Ami is Ami Prime despite the former not showing cosmic knowledge, fuckery awareness, and mostly importantly not showing the off-the-chart toxicity of the latter. The difference there is so large that they might as well be different people. Isn't this why we distinguish Nu Maya from Maya Prime in the first place?

Anyway, this is my biggest reason why I hesitate about embracing the speculation of Ami Prime being always there, and it's because such a speculation is an interesting yet not-so-perfect puzzle piece that fits some corners of the puzzle but not all corners. I can't rely solely on takes on supernaturally freaky moments to commit to "early Ami == Ami Prime", while ignoring feelings these cute slice-of-life moments give me. I think slipping in-n-out of her other alt selves does make some sense: Ami perhaps is the same as her mother, susceptible to many sounds, things, everything; it's just one of things is her ultimate evil self from another timeline from a long long time ago. At least, this is one of the potential solutions that isn't comprehensive yet also isn't contradicting much of anything, as now we just need to think about "when the slipping takes place and by what" rather than "how the fuck would Ami Prime act so sweet back then".

No matter how much you try to convince me that Ami was a sweet and innocent girl in chapter 1 before sensei started diddling kids, I'm 99% sure Ami was a D1 gas lighter who knew about sensei's "condition" and used that to try and string him along. Ami ALWAYS striked me as a control freak even after the "touching" moments we got after Ami crashed out.

 

[crustlord12]

My guess is that you're referencing "somnambula" and the infamous ride on the backwards bus. If so, yes, it has been heavily discussed as it is one of the, if not most, important events from Ami.

This event foreshadows that she has been alone with Akira at a world's end "you could drive us through the empty city", which is heavily implied by the dialogue Ami has with Maya in the scary room (Ami having experienced multiple Akiras and being the original companion to him through resets). And there's also the part of how she intends to dethrone a god (assumed) so that Akira can sit on their throne. Throughout the event, USER1 tries to connect and is blocked multiple times.

There's more to it, but from memory those are the important parts. "Somnambula" remains an enigma, which iirc we discussed most recently when Selebus asked which event he should provide commentary about. My guess is that if he explained it, we'd likely have a lot of endgame info (which is why he's unlikely to talk about it at all).

Ah okay, thanks. I couldn't remember how recently it had been discussed, it just struck me as weird because it's a very marked shift in personality.

I'm trying to piece together what resetting a character actually entails. Realistically, Sel doesn't have firm rules and it's just whatever he wants. But we've seen Makoto have actions immediately undone in Bluejay, we've seen numerous characters slip between worlds, and we've seen complete character resets. Characters used to go into a conversational repetition when the resets were brought up and that doesn't seem to be happening as much anymore (bad writing or purposeful for the story?) But I'm thinking that Ami slipped away some point after the 4th reset and was replaced with an Ami that had spent a lot more time in the other world.

I don't know. Sel needs to tighten his shit up.

Spoiler: What Sel Expected To Happen:

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What a terrible day to have ears.

 

[shmurfer]

I'm 99% sure Ami was a D1 gas lighter who knew about sensei's "condition"

Pretty much. She's has diagnostic mode access for Akira, and has used it a bunch to manipulate him since the start of Chapter 1. This Ami is suspicious of Maya, but never has any proof. Keeping Ami like this seems to be one of Maya's priorities.

There's some Ami trapped in the end of the world that's been here a long time who wants all of Akira's attention. She's willing to play along with the reset, seemingly being able to interact with the backstage staff of Kumon-Mi but doesn't have the initiative to control the current events. If there was an Ami who isn't actually Ami, it'd be this one. She's a caricature of Ami at best.

There's some Ami who's been in the loops seemingly as long as Maya Prime has, to the point she's bored or something and is quick to start murdering people. Something about telling an unaware Ami causes her to start remembering the truth based on Maya's testimony, which Makoto did in chapter 3.5. Whatever this means, this Ami was the one Ayane slapped on the beach and stopped taking her shit. By the time Chapter 4 is rolling around, Ami hints at wanting to insult Ayane for a LONG time, which predates beach moon theory.

Then there's the Ami that was in her own world with an attempt at her paradise during Halloween, she kills Nodoka. We've assumed she's the same one in control of our Ami now, but none of those insights are based on evidence, just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together and seeing whether it fits, and no smoking guns to confirm it. Just like Alt-Maya hasn't been around as long as Prime-Maya, this could be an Alt-Ami that eventually becomes the one who's in control of Ami during chapter 4, and the visit to that other timeline is what alerts Alt-Ami to the location of a fully realised Akira, rather than a reset meat puppet. (But again, nice theory with no hard evidence)

There's a chance Ami is going through her own time troubles, and we're dealing with an elder Ami (who finds this timeline nostalgic). We don't have enough pieces to guess what her objective is yet. It ain't murdering, despite the hints (Unless that moment at Christmas is a hint that she has access to saving, and killed Imani then reloaded or something. That's also a concept we potentially have to deal with since Chapter 4)

 

[DeSkel15]

So if Ami has not been Ami Prime the entire time, when exactly do you think she was swapped out? Presumably during one of the resets or time skips. It's seems odd nobody noticed she changed. Saying that I do remember a few complaints about her acting out of character before we knew all this.

Ami Prime specifically seemed to become a thing last Halloween. With the "Real Home" Ami seemingly being devoured by HOPE, while Ami Prime revealed herself and has been around since:

The Ami Prime and Maya from 'Right As Rain' didn't seem to make it to the Halloween Party:

Spoiler

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So, this probably wouldn't fit their timeline:

Spoiler

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Ayane and Yumi may have went pop (from Makoto's perspective) then ended up running into a Maya Prime (during the Reset), then got swallowed by HOPE (during the Reset after reaching that versions roof), though. Ayane having that Maya Prime's scarf, yet memories of the Ayane that went pop would suggest this.

Of course, there's always the possibility that these main versions on the roof are merely new versions with memories and modifications from past main versions to simulate the survival of those past main versions, but who knows.

Why I refer to the Ami with Makoto as "Real Home" Ami is because Makoto had apparently ended up in the "real home":

Spoiler

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This "Real Home" Ami actually repeated herself even to New Maya who shouldn't know about the whole repeating thing:

Spoiler

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Ami supposedly died in this Reset:

Spoiler

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But that may have been referring to the "Real Home" Ami (and "Real Home" New Maya), or early Chapter 4 Ami.

Although, tbh, Ami may have just been replaced every Reset. Same could be said for every girl including Maya Prime:

Spoiler: More

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----

More Alt versions stuff for those interested:

Just somewhat came to mind, but based off what Maya Prime has claimed:

Spoiler

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The likelihood of these seemingly alternate timelines having a Sensei and Ami not sleeping together seems incredibly unlikely.

Spoiler: Analyzation

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Something interesting that I don't think has gained much notice is that it was again implied that even Sensei being aware of the Resets isn't relatively normal in the Resets.

In Ayane's Chapter 4 'Chamomile' Event, the Alt Maya Prime reveals:

Spoiler

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That in her world (Football Sensei), she is the only one who knows about the Resets. Her Sensei doesn't and it seems like her Ami probably doesn't either (or at least this Maya implies that), and it seems like none of the previous Senseis had figured it out in this world either.

Our Maya Prime actually had also implied that Sensei being aware of Resets was a new thing:

Spoiler

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So, something probably happened before our Sensei showed up that made it possible for Sensei to make it to the roof and become aware of things. (Our Maya Prime didn't seem surprised that our Sensei knew of the Resets so it probably happened before Chapter 1)

Spoiler: Paradoxical theory

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----
Yumi also making it to the Rooftop and surviving, probably disproves any sex related theory on getting to the roof, and Ayane's "only 3 membership" theory as well.

There needing to be some kind of sacrifice possibly still works. Yuki, for example, seemed to go missing soon before Yumi made it to the roof, which seems awfully similar to what happened with Ayane's chicken son (Todd)...who Sensei still hasn't told her that he had found dead... I wonder if Yumi might bring that up?...

Also:

Spoiler

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I wouldn't really put it past some of these girls to drug rape Sensei, tbh. I would expect some to be okay with it, while others wouldn't, though, in game, and probably IRL. Realistically, Morality varies from person to person, and usually from context to context.

Hm, something that I don't think has really came up yet (And where I'm somewhat leaning in the what the hell is going on with Ami stuff):

The idea that versions of the characters could possibly steal the bodies of other versions whenever:

Spoiler

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This is revealed in Chapter 2's Ayane 'Nevermind' Event:

Spoiler

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Edit: As for the resets affecting Ami differently, that isn't entirely clear.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Looks like has monthly has fell to around $9,441. Which is the lowest I've seen it since the Patreon Purge. Since next month is a release month it may go back up. But since the end of the Fan Fest his monthly has steadily decreased.

 

[beh123234]

So if Ami has not been Ami Prime the entire time, when exactly do you think she was swapped out? Presumably during one of the resets or time skips. It's seems odd nobody noticed she changed. Saying that I do remember a few complaints about her acting out of character before we knew all this.

Spoiler: My Own Thoughts on Ami Prime

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[jjjjbb]

It is still alive! I dropped it so long ago due to extreme high number of characters. It is close to impossible to remember all of the story lines. While every line are interesting and some of them are great it is impossible to handle these. Especially with all this "special events" which prevents player to separate girls and their lines.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: 0.50 Preview

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[Pedro4545454]

Spoiler: 0.50 Preview

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I must say that I love this detail that Selly puts in the eyes to show how broken the character's mind is.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: 0.50 Preview

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[SlidingSubject]

I must say that I love this detail that Sally puts in the eyes to show how broken the character's mind is.

I like that it isn't the same kind of detail Sensei has. Also, the fact that Io doesn't have it despite everything (or maybe she's a better actor).

 

[Detective Dc345]

I must say that I love this detail that Sally puts in the eyes to show how broken the character's mind is.

Ah yes, Sally. The suburban mother of 4 that drives a minivan, who is also the creator of Lessons In Love. Sallybus.

I like that it isn't the same kind of detail Sensei has. Also, the fact that Io doesn't have it despite everything (or maybe she's a better actor).

Io has the same broken, dead inside look during Stomachache.

 

[beh123234]

Not to derail the convo too much, but on my first replay I finally bothered to translate the name of the store that Chika works in, and it's literally just French for "clothes"

 

[SlidingSubject]

Io has the same broken, dead inside look during Stomachache.

She does, but it's a, let's say, regular dead look.

Spoiler: 1999 PC Classic, Rollercoaster Tycoon

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Spoiler: Stomachache

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Sensei and now Sara have extra details.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Spoiler: 0.50 Preview

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It took me almost a full minute to realize that Sara is in fact not holding a small knife. Brain not doing well today.

 

[Pedro4545454]

Sensei and now Sara have extra details.

Makoto also has different details in her eyes when she is in her broken mode.

Spoiler: Makoto

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[SlidingSubject]

Makoto also has different details in her eyes when she is in her broken mode.

Spoiler: Makoto

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Oh yeah, forgot about her Voldemort phase, guess everyone deals with existential crises in a different way.
Her details are more similar to Sensei's than Sara's.