Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[DeSkel15]

It's especially tragic to me, because when I look up the artist behind Black Souls, I get a thread about how the creator used funds from his game to support an ailing family member. And when I look up Selebus, I get... well, [deleted user] arguing with randoms on piracy website over God Hope knows what, and an apparent obsession with making the most money possible.

Even disregarding rights or wrongs between F95 and Selebus, it's impossible to ignore this aspect now and just enjoy the fiction since I can expect to hear one-sided rants all about it in his game anyways. Which is fine I guess, it is his game; and thus his medium to produce a narrative, especially that of anti-religion (or "heavy religious critique" as he puts it), or just his own narrative of his experience elsewhere. At that point I would be more invested and willing to donate to his autobiography instead.

Im sure the game continues fine, I'm just terribly dissapointed that all I have to expect from LiL now is just another porn game with a narrative focus, and not the exceptionally written masterpiece I initially believed it was.

I just ignore all of the drama, tbh. As long I'm being entertained and the Creator isn't going around choking strangers or trying to ruin the lives of innocents, it's no big deal to me. Most people suck anyway.

Also, I find this game rather religious all things considered. There's god stuff around every corner. Maya definitely seems "anti-religious" though, which is funny considering she's a shrine maiden that prays to a god every once in awhile at least. Yasu's whole thing is also being apart of a minor religion, and Tsuneyo has her own religious beliefs. I suppose even Ayane sees Sensei as a god:

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[DeSkel15]

hoping for a pta meeting event with all the milfs when spring comes

dont know how the spring reset will work if it will progress through summer and end in the fall season or go straight to winter with summer/winter resets being 6 months each, that or a god is gonna die soon.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. Imagine if HOPE just kills Pareidolia to skip Spring or something. That'd be interesting.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

I suppose even Ayane sees Sensei as a god

She certainly seems to worship him like one. And she's not the only one either.

 

[DeSkel15]

She certainly seems to worship him like one. And she's not the only one either.

Yep, Sensei is kind of like an accidental cult leader at this point. He just wanted to fuck teenagers, but ended up becoming their god.

That actually seems to be a big part of the game, with even Sekai writing a poem about it:

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Anything can be a "god".

 

[alex2011]

Yeah, I feel like Nao set up a few things, including the "pain yet to come" as it puts it:

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Not to mention, the level of gods:

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And to be honest, HOPE, in particular, seems to be comparable to a child in the grand scheme of things:

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With Sensei just being it's favorite character:

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Whether or not Sel can stick the landing, I can't say, but I'm definitely interested in watching the realization of what's really going on, "come to light", as Nao would put it:

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Also, personally, I'm hoping this game never comes close to shit like the "Crossed" comics. Now, I like to think I'm rather tolerant. But eating babies or crucifying your pregnant children, for more or less just shock value, is kind of a... "I'm out" situation, lmao. Existential Horror is fine though.

As much as it might seem like I'm complaining or in someway hold a negative opinion about these possibilities, I'm actually excited to see a game potentially setting up to push boundaries in ways and to levels that rarely get pushed. I'm kind of an anything goes type, no limits, so even topping Crossed would be fine with me personally speaking. I still get disturbed by it in the short term, though.

What I said is still just a guess, though. It almost looks like he's setting up for something huge to happen at the change in route, but as usual, I could always be wrong.

I do agree with both of you that the dark stuff can happen. Ultimately, I don't really care about how dark this game can go, but what matters is if that dark stuff is meaningful towards the story and character progression, rather than just being there for cheap shock value.
I'm just somewhat disappointed because I think the whole mystery/gods side of the story could have been expressed in a more engaging way instead of being cryptic all the time, it's hard to take it seriously when the vast majority of the game is slice of life/drama and the protagonist of this "mystery" story isn't even interested in the mystery...
Regardless, I still trust in Sel's writing ability. He's had some really good events in Chapter 2 and 3 and the improvement in his writing is noticeable. I'm interested in seeing how will he approach this "dark" phase.

There's only so much you can say without giving out too much, which threatens to ruin any big reveals in the future connected to the specific information being given. If he's setting up something big for the future like I've theorized, then being cryptic about things at this point does serve to not accidentally expose too much and ruin the potential impact. We're looking at what could possibly be the future entrance of the real main antagonist according to my theory and, if he's trying to make it some big thing, giving what he's planning away will ruin that.

There have always been two sides going on in parallel with this game. You have this sort of slice of life element you mentioned, that's what is going on with the girls, Sensei, that side of things. Then there are the darker themes that started almost completely quarantined to 'happy' scenes and have been slowly leaking into the main and/or events over time. The more this leak goes on, the less slice of life and the more dark element we'll see until things finally hit their peak somewhere that I would have to guess is further within the dark route than I theorized about the entrance of the main antagonist. That is when things will be at their worst, most gruesome, most disturbing point in the entire game.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. Imagine if HOPE just kills Pareidolia to skip Spring or something. That'd be interesting.

Now that you say this, HOPE does seem like the 'do whatever is deemed necessary' type that would do something drastic if it meant getting his way. Killing Pareidolia, or any character really, would be considered something drastic considering that might be a way to get rid of that pesky spring getting in the way of the winter he's looking for.

 

[DeSkel15]

As much as it might seem like I'm complaining or in someway hold a negative opinion about these possibilities, I'm actually excited to see a game potentially setting up to push boundaries in ways and to levels that rarely get pushed. I'm kind of an anything goes type, no limits, so even topping Crossed would be fine with me personally speaking. I still get disturbed by it in the short term, though.

What I said is still just a guess, though. It almost looks like he's setting up for something huge to happen at the change in route, but as usual, I could always be wrong.

Now that you say this, HOPE does seem like the 'do whatever is deemed necessary' type that would do something drastic if it meant getting his way. Killing Pareidolia, or any character really, would be considered something drastic considering that might be a way to get rid of that pesky spring getting in the way of the winter he's looking for.

Yeah, I'm fine with pushing boundaries, it's just that "Crossed" didn't really just push boundaries. It satired them in a way. That's something I'd like this game to avoid. I'd rather suffer watching a character suffer than feel the need to laugh at the ridiculousness of it.

Like if Rin gets raped, I'd much rather not end up feeling cringe from it.

Yeah, some Immortal Kombat sounds interesting, although it's possible that HOPE is actually dead at the moment anyway. I don't recall seeing it since Sekai showed up, albeit I could be forgetting.

 

[BlackDays]

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Thanks for this. It's part of what i meant in one of my previous posts, with Pareidolia trying to push Akira towards a certain point/state.

This is also something for you DeSkel15
Back to the book selection. I don't think the 3rd book is about Pareidolia, or it wouldn't have something against Akira falling into it.

I guess what the text in the picture refers to will be the entry point to the dark route, in conjunction with "Take something you're not supposed to have.".
That something i believe could be Maya. Akira states this at least one time.
Maybe Maya will tempt him to fuck her somewhere around or during a Happy Event or reset, which will trigger the dark route.
I guess it will also bring up (maybe again, like past iterations) full blown predator Akira.

There's also Laverne (a "Day of the Tentacle" character ^^) Maya (the creepy looking one in the shadows).
Maybe Laverne Maya is the Maya that recklessly fucked some Akira iterations to death and into a reset.
Which is kind of interesting given her speech about how horrible it was to watch all the people/her friends getting reset and therefore forgot all they experienced together, and so, losing them.

Because if the destruction of an Akira iteration means imidiate reset, then she'd have been responsible for what she says was horrible. And she must have known this.
Her urges must have been pretty bad, but i guess she deemed those Akira iterations as disposable for whatever reasons.
Wonder what changed that. Was it told? Maybe i forgot. Maybe she thought if she just tossed the dices often enough, the real Akira would return.
Success i guess.

 

[DarkDaemonX]

I was really surprised when "Anything & Everything" added a real 100 points to Maya's affection points, I had to check her page to make sure it was real.

 

[barglenarglezous]

It's especially tragic to me, because when I look up the artist behind Black Souls, I get a thread about how the creator used funds from his game to support an ailing family member. And when I look up Selebus, I get... well, [deleted user] arguing with randoms on piracy website over God Hope knows what, and an apparent obsession with making the most money possible.

FWIW, he claims he donates a significant chunk of his income to organizations that support victims of abuse.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I just ignore all of the drama, tbh. As long I'm being entertained and the Creator isn't going around choking strangers or trying to ruin the lives of innocents, it's no big deal to me. Most people suck anyway.

Also, I find this game rather religious all things considered. There's god stuff around every corner. Maya definitely seems "anti-religious" though, which is funny considering she's a shrine maiden that prays to a god every once in awhile at least.

The fact that Maya's an anti-religion shrine maiden who's the one used to inform us that the christian concept of a Holy Trinity is relevant to the game makes me wonder.

If Kumon Mi is a trauma purgatory, Maya's trauma is most likely religious in nature -- sexual abuse from a pastor, physical abuse from "spare the rod spoil the child" parents, or something similar.

 

[BlackDays]

FWIW, he claims he donates a significant chunk of his income to organizations that support victims of abuse.

Read something like that some time ago too.
I just don't know what the reason might be. At least not exactly.
Maybe he's trying to make up (in some way) for how the girls are treated/shown in his game?
Personal life experience? From which side, if?

 

[vehemental]

I'm not sure how well can Sel execute it when most of the stuff he writes is cute girls doing cute stuff.

He does - but at the same time, I've only had a memorably visceral reaction to ("triggered" by, I guess) two characters in all the media I've consumed - William H Macy's portrayal of the completely unrepentant malignant narcissist dad in Shameless, and Ami. Literally disgustingly well written/performed at times

At some point, someone in this game (Maya) is going to die - seemingly permanently, without divine intervention. Resets will stop working and the cast of characters will start to dwindle. From the point of the first death until the end of the "Dark Path" is when I think LiL will make or break itself in fulfilling its potential. It'll either come alive or fall flat, and I don't envy some of the writing challenges that are already apparent.

In the meantime, Selly said this was a 10 year project. Maybe it will actually take that long to tell this story properly... or maybe there's a lot of filler, and his other shenanigans indicate this figure may have been made up more out of a concern for maintaining his income for longer. I wish he felt confident that he could start another project that would be even better after this one. But either way, if LiL ends up being good, obviously there's no complaint here. Late is temporary, but if it's bad, it's bad forever. At least he's not a perfectionist, so he probably won't pull a Great Value Patrick Rothfuss.

Which is fine I guess, it is his game; and thus his medium to produce a narrative, especially that of anti-religion (or "heavy religious critique" as he puts it)

I swear - if all the r/atheism rhetoric in this game doesn't lead somewhere interesting, that will be one of its biggest disappointments. God was dead in fucking 1882, we need new stories.

Hasn't his Subscribstar support completely stagnated since this thread got quarantined? I know Vehemental commented on it a while back but i've never bothered to keep tabs on it myself.

It was $11k and healthy change 6mo ago when this shit popped off, and it's at $11,015 right now. Even Champion of Realms kept growing after losing the Latest Updates page (see graph). LiL is going nowhere. No real marketing and current subs are still walking on eggshells to avoid the banhammer. Great combo.

Now instead of actually playing the game and experiencing said "art", I'm instead reading through a thousand pages of F95 thread text because the rambling here, on porn-pirating site, is somehow more unnerving and thought-provoking then the rambling in-game. At least it seems necessary to do so now in order to fully understand the game; that is if I ever bother to pick it up again.

A bit of a gravedig so apologies if you get a ping or whatever for this. This statement just resonated with me the most, wherein I am almost wishing I never was recommended this game at all after reading what you had to say.

This is one of the only games worth talking about on here (for better or for worse) - but yeah, this thread is particularly great. Ironically, the last batch of bad-faith grass-allergics that were in here were sent as part of a hate raid by Selly himself.

I hear you re: wishing you never played this game in the first place, but I haven't given up all hope on it, and I bet you haven't either. I also find myself wanting to make my own game more and more as time goes on and the lessons here, if only in the meta of development and PR, have been invaluable. You write well and have identified something missing in the games you've played, so maybe at some point you might find yourself on that path too.

FWIW, he claims he donates a significant chunk of his income to organizations that support victims of abuse.

I hope no one believes that without seeing receipts. I'd believe a couple one-time donos, but tithing? Ain't no way.

 

[DeSkel15]

The fact that Maya's an anti-religion shrine maiden who's the one used to inform us that the christian concept of a Holy Trinity is relevant to the game makes me wonder.

If Kumon Mi is a trauma purgatory, Maya's trauma is most likely religious in nature -- sexual abuse from a pastor, physical abuse from "spare the rod spoil the child" parents, or something similar.

I definitely think there's potential in Maya being raped by a family relative:

That wizard Maya scene and what Sensei says in 'The Room with Clocks' is one of the reasons I think that Maya may have been raped prior to meeting Sensei:

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I explain it better, elsewhere:

Could definitely be wrong though.

In addition, that Bench that shows up every once in awhile, may have been where Maya and Sensei first met, but I'm not entirely confident on that part, just yet.

I'm thinking her hatred of gods just comes from being stuck in a chronoprison where she can't be with Sensei, though. I mean either gods are punishing her, or they don't care, so why wouldn't she dislike them.

It is possible that Nao may have been the god she prayed to, that started all of this though. I'm definitely thinking there's some lore as to why the likes of Moyo and Long Maya exist.

 

[blackredfish]

Now that you say this, HOPE does seem like the 'do whatever is deemed necessary' type that would do something drastic if it meant getting his way. Killing Pareidolia, or any character really, would be considered something drastic considering that might be a way to get rid of that pesky spring getting in the way of the winter he's looking for.

I guess I'm the one to blame for this since I started it, but it feels like people are going a little overboard now. I pointed out that technicality ("until the snow returns") because I thought it was odd, but we really don't know if it should be taken that literally. Honestly, it's a little stupid and some things don't add up.

Every chapter starts and finishes along with a season. From a game design perspective, if something big happens, odds are that it will be at the end of a chapter, in this case, the end of summer.

But more importantly, winter is not HOPE's season. He's pretty much dormant during winter. So why would he be waiting for it? (Why does he have to wait in the first place?). If he's going to act, makes more sense he does it when his powers are fully active. It really doesn't fit unless we got it all wrong and the one threatening Akira is someone else. Very unlikely, all caps speech is HOPE's trademark but just like there is (arguably) more than one italic narrator maybe the same is happening here. And Yasu seems to get possesed not only by HOPE.

And let's not rule out the possibilty that this was just a case of Selebus trying to be cute with the phrasing forgetting there is always that asshole that goes " Nuh uh uh, wait a minute here, amigo". That guy is the worst.

 

[DeSkel15]

Thanks for this. It's part of what i meant in one of my previous posts, with Pareidolia trying to push Akira towards a certain point/state.

This is also something for you DeSkel15
Back to the book selection. I don't think the 3rd book is about Pareidolia, or it wouldn't have something against Akira falling into it.

I guess what the text in the picture refers to will be the entry point to the dark route, in conjunction with "Take something you're not supposed to have.".
That something i believe could be Maya. Akira states this at least one time.
Maybe Maya will tempt him to fuck her somewhere around or during a Happy Event or reset, which will trigger the dark route.
I guess it will also bring up (maybe again, like past iterations) full blown predator Akira.

There's also Laverne (a "Day of the Tentacle" character ^^) Maya (the creepy looking one in the shadows).
Maybe Laverne Maya is the Maya that recklessly fucked some Akira iterations to death and into a reset.
Which is kind of interesting given her speech about how horrible it was to watch all the people/her friends getting reset and therefore forgot all they experienced together, and so, losing them.

Because if the destruction of an Akira iteration means imidiate reset, then she'd have been responsible for what she says was horrible. And she must have known this.
Her urges must have been pretty bad, but i guess she deemed those Akira iterations as disposable for whatever reasons.
Wonder what changed that. Was it told? Maybe i forgot. Maybe she thought if she just tossed the dices often enough, the real Akira would return.
Success i guess.

"The dark" even talks like Pareidolia though:

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And for all we know, falling into "the dark" might be good for Sensei, but bad for Pareidolia. It could even be an attempt at reverse psychology.

Like Pareidolia said: "it all comes down to perception":

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As for Maya, it seems like it was mostly hornyness that caused her to break past Senseis:

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Not to say accidents didn't happen since apparently even saying she loved him has broken Sensei before:

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Of course, there's also how she apparently knows "hate sex" breaks him, as well:

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Kind of makes me wonder if Maya might actually have the highest kill count in the game.

Also, keep in mind that Maya's answer to the current Sensei apparently dying in front of her during her 'A Place That Can Only Exist in Our Minds' event was to try to apparently "fuck him back to life"... She's not exactly the best in stressful situations, and considering she may have used sex to control Sensei since he tutored her, that might just be her go to when she doesn't know what else to do.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

Out of curiosity does anyone have all the various main menu images for each version (Excluding Care Package ones). I would like to have them available within my game files as selectale options for the main menu image.

 

[BlackDays]

As for Maya, it seems like it was mostly hornyness that caused her to break past Senseis:

Her urges must have been pretty bad, but i guess she deemed those Akira iterations as disposable for whatever reasons.

That means one and the same, not?

Yeah, italic text seems to imply it's Pareidolia.
Maybe the book titles are not aliases but mean something else?
Also saw in one of your pictures that there where only book 1 and book 4.
Maybe other numbers are in that event too?
Maybe i'll check that event again later.

 

[alex2011]

I definitely think there's potential in Maya being raped by a family relative:
I'm thinking her hatred of gods just comes from being stuck in a chronoprison where she can't be with Sensei, though. I mean either gods are punishing her, or they don't care, so why wouldn't she dislike them.

It is possible that Nao may have been the god she prayed to, that started all of this though. I'm definitely thinking there's some lore as to why the likes of Moyo and Long Maya exist.

I'm still not sure if it was full on rape, but I am leaning in the direction she did have something inappropriate being done to her. She may have been touched, stripped, flashed, maybe someone pulled a Yumi situation on her, there are a number of things that don't technically fall under rape, but do fall under other similar categories on the same relative spectrum.

I guess I'm the one to blame for this since I started it, but it feels like people are going a little overboard now. I pointed out that technicality ("until the snow returns") because I thought it was odd, but we really don't know if it should be taken that literally. Honestly, it's a little stupid and some things don't add up.

Every chapter starts and finishes along with a season. From a game design perspective, if something big happens, odds are that it will be at the end of a chapter, in this case, the end of summer.

But more importantly, winter is not HOPE's season. He's pretty much dormant during winter. So why would he be waiting for it? (Why does he have to wait in the first place?). If he's going to act, makes more sense he does it when his powers are fully active. It really doesn't fit unless we got it all wrong and the one threatening Akira is someone else. Very unlikely, all caps speech is HOPE's trademark but just like there is (arguably) more than one italic narrator maybe the same is happening here. And Yasu seems to get possesed not only by HOPE.

And let's not rule out the possibilty that this was just a case of Selebus trying to be cute with the phrasing forgetting there is always that asshole that goes " Nuh uh uh, wait a minute here, amigo". That guy is the worst.

No, you are onto a possibility here. This world we're viewing in game, it isn't normal, there are things going on that defy real world logic already. You are right, this may not come to pass in the most literal sense possible, but it is not outside the realm of possibility that it does. We are talking about essentially supernatural entities here, some with powers beyond human understanding. If there is one that can potentially control weather or time, and there may very well be considering how messed up the timeline is with the resets, that opens up potential for this power to bring back the snow in the wrong hands, immediately giving way to the end of the time limit and the associated consequences. The same can be said if any of these entities can control weather, we may not even need to be in winter to see snow if there is an entity that can simply make snow fall. If HOPE were to get either of these powers, he could simply speed up or rewind time or could simply make snow fall now instead of waiting for spring to pass. The way to do that would most likely be to kill the current holder of that power. I cannot guess which power, but Pareidolia may very well have one of them, making Pareidolia a priority target if HOPE goes this route assuming all this information turns out true.

In the realm of reality, this is set in Japan, which does have a little history with snowfall during specific times of year not considered winter on rare occasions given the correct conditions for it. It is also not out of the realm of possibility for the weather to simply be just right for snow in early spring even if the time it lasts is short and it doesn't stick for long. At that point, the time is up, the consequences have been earned. HOPE never said how much had to fall or if it had to stick, he only said when the snow falls next, the time to do as he says is up.

 

[Bingoogus]

I think that... what everyone around here needs to remember is, that despite all these wild and wacky theories, all the gods, seasons, bootstrap-paradox daughters, spooky malls, the developer and the community that we have here, the most important thing everyone needs to remember is that Sensei has very large penis.

 

[BlackDays]

I think that... what everyone around here needs to remember is, that despite all these wild and wacky theories, all the gods, seasons, bootstrap-paradox daughters, spooky malls, the developer and the community that we have here, the most important thing everyone needs to remember is that Sensei has very large penis.

I might have a shocking truth for you.

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Perception.