Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[LoveWhiteHairedGirl]

Wait, Selebus went after the wiki? Why?

As I remember, someone posted here that some of the wiki moderators were against loli content, so they left the wiki.

 

[Pedro4545454]

As I remember, someone posted here that some of the wiki moderators were against loli content, so they left the wiki.

I still find it strange that they say it's because of this, because since chapter 2 it was very clear that this exists/already existed in the game, so for me it doesn't make sense that they're only talking about it now.

 

[Bingoogus]

I still find it strange that they say it's because of this, because since chapter 2 it was very clear that this exists/already existed in the game, so for me it doesn't make sense that they're only talking about it now.

Doesn't really have to make sense to us Pedro, if i recall it was actually just one dude who bailed for that reason, but we each draw our own lines in the sand and it's easy for it to seem entirely arbitrary where others draw their lines. Guy got icked and noped out at a spot that was too ick for him to persist with, it happens.

 

[Moonflare]

but we each draw our own lines in the sand and it's easy for it to seem entirely arbitrary where others draw their lines. Guy got icked and noped out at a spot that was too ick for him to persist with, it happens.

You're absolutely correct. And it wouldn't be that much of a problem if it wasn't for Selebus' dumb great ideas regarding game design. I love the writing, but man, if it wasn't for the community support I just wouldn't have the will to power-through this game, like, I just finished replaying and there were about 10 different times where I for sure would have simply closed the game and gave up. Specifically to the wiki, I'm not translating hexadecimal, ciphers and japanese for every event every time (not mentioning how it makes it easier to find an event).

That said, it's funny cause, for me, my sole line in the sand that I can see would be if his story stopped making sense. Like what we all talked about regarding Nodokathon, but times 10 and repeated a couple of times. I don't think I'd mind whatever tag he chose to bring up as long as it made sense. And wizards make a lot of sense to the overall arc of the story, in fact it's something that has been confirmed for years (I'd assume regarding both Sekai and Maya - and then with HOPE's Uta's message) - but, again, I do respect their boundaries regarding fiction.

 

[JelF547]

The problem of LiL is not the loli content itself. The problem of LiL is Selebus, who continiously attempts to normalize it to reader, and who makes questionable rants like "You are literally fucking schoolgirls, why do you think fucking loli would make it worse". And on the top of that, he already tried to use loli content to make this game banned on f95; so from some perspective Sel is a crying bitch who makes his game lolicon-focused just to show that it really violates rule 7 here.

I think, people can find this a bit exhausting. I like what Sel did with Tsukasa though

 

[DeSkel15]

I think the recent Tsukasa stuff was the straw that broke the camel's back for most who have jumped ship.

Sel may have actually had a recent comment about this, in Kaori's recent Tree Village event:

Spoiler

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There's also how I'm sure people missed the whole Sensei's a pedo in denial stuff, throughout the game, and now it's getting more and more blatant. Even though, it has been at least implied since Maya's 'A Place That Can Only Exist in Our Minds' Chapter 2 Event. Especially if you find the secret image:

Spoiler

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(Albeit, the rework has a wizard Maya show up in the 1st Happy Event, and has Sensei freaking out about "petting the cat", mentioning her purity, and showing her true love, etc)

And again implied by Sensei having younger pics of Maya, by the end of Chapter 2, which was seemingly mentioned again by New Maya recently:

Spoiler

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I guess, watching Sekai suck off and jerk off a wizard/warlock Sensei back in Chapter 3 wasn't enough of a deal breaker.

Although, it might be less so the Wizard stuff, and more so how it is seemingly required, to choose to go after a wizard, to get an all green path (not have crossed out events). The lack of a scapegoat may be the problem.

 

[wamzzz]

The difference is likely between knowing it's happening and being shown it's happening and all signs point to the latter. As Bingoogus said that might have been the ick that broke the camel's back.

 

[Pedro4545454]

There's also how I'm sure people missed the whole Sensei's a pedo in denial stuff, throughout the game, and now it's getting more and more blatant. Even though, it has been at least implied since Maya's 'A Place That Can Only Exist in Our Minds' Chapter 2 Event. Especially if you find the secret image:

Spoiler

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(Albeit, the rework has a wizard Maya show up in the 1st Happy Event, and has Sensei freaking out about "petting the cat", mentioning her purity, and showing her true love, etc)

And again implied by Sensei having younger pics of Maya, by the end of Chapter 2, which was seemingly mentioned again by New Maya recently:

Spoiler

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I guess, watching Sekai suck off and jerk off a wizard/warlock Sensei back in Chapter 3 wasn't enough of a deal breaker.

That's what I meant, there were already several references and images of this content in the game a long time ago, so I was confused when they said that this was the reason, but as Bingoogus said, everyone has their limits so I'm not going to complain to anyone He abandoned the game for that reason, but like I said I don't think I'll ever understand why he only abandoned the game now and not before, when there was the first reference to it in the game.

The difference is likely between knowing it's happening and being shown it's happening and all signs point to the latter. As Bingoogus said that might have been the ick that broke the camel's back.

But it had already been shown in chapter 3 with Sekai and Akira mage

 

[TheSeedy1]

I guess, watching Sekai suck off and jerk off a wizard/warlock Sensei back in Chapter 3 wasn't enough of a deal breaker.

Beyond the sheer insanity of the game's god interference/reset moments, this is definitely the area I'm hella creeped by. I struggled to push past and see the plot cause oof, yeah.

I definitely have some worries about upcoming plot points given some of the dialogue that's cropped up at various moments with the wizards, especially that last Tsukasa event.

 

[Pedro4545454]

I definitely have some worries about upcoming plot points given some of the dialogue that's cropped up at various moments with the wizards, especially that last Tsukasa event.

I hope you continue playing, for me seeing your theories/opinions and those of moonflare are very interesting.

 

[derekthered56]

So far i've tolerated wizard content because it's been portrayed as awful and traumatizing to the victims. I might not continue if it starts being shown salaciously, or more clearly suggests the wizard is responsible for it. I'm actually worried the story could go that direction.

 

[shmurfer]

Although, it might be less so the Wizard stuff, and more so how it is seemingly required, to choose to go after a wizard, to get an all green path (not have crossed out events). The lack of a scapegoat may be the problem.

I mean if I was a game dev, I'd be hella tempted to fuck with completionists. Like how in Braid / The Witness most of the game can be completed very quickly but completionists have to add a literal hour long delay because fuck them.

 

[wamzzz]

But it had already been shown in chapter 3 with Sekai and Akira mage

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Akira warlock scene. I'm not entirely sure though, maybe it's different when it's a girl or when they self-insert and have to click the button to make it happen. Guess we'll never truly find out unless the wiki editor comes out and mentions what was the last straw.

 

[DeSkel15]

I mean if I was a game dev, I'd be hella tempted to fuck with completionists. Like how in Braid / The Witness most of the game can be completed very quickly but completionists have to add a literal hour long delay because fuck them.

This game already had missed events if the player didn't commit incest, and didn't commit adultery, and it's beginning to seem there will be missed events if they try to avoid wizards as well.

All in all, there may be an extra couple hours of stuff if not days worth, for those who don't want missed events, in the end.

Edit: Not sure if it'll affect the true ending.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Are people really surprised Selebus would actually add wizard content ?

There's no way there's players and actual mods and Wiki editors that thought nah Akira is a bad person but he's chill like that, I know he used to plap wizards but surely he won't add that in the game at all haha

He manipulates highschool girls, fucks a married woman, misleads a single woman, does incest, plaps wizards, but that is cool unless he adds this one bad thing where I draw the line in the game, even tho I know this character did do it in the past

???

 

[Moonflare]

I feel like everyone has pointed out good enough reasons for people to jump ship - it's just that, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, since we're all still playing the game - but maybe they thought of LiL as a different kind of story?

Spoiler: why I don't have a problem with it

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Short version:

Although, it might be less so the Wizard stuff, and more so how it is seemingly required, to choose to go after a wizard, to get an all green path (not have crossed out events). The lack of a scapegoat may be the problem.

I think this is the main thing, the fact that the game in which most of things are not up to the player made this up to the player. I will say this though, to me personally, taking that choice isn't even about wanting to see wizard content or not - it's about wanting to see the story Selebus wants to tell or not.

I will see everything he wants or may want to include in his story, and if the story is destroyed because of it, I'll add that on my review. I'm not Akira and Selebus supposed rants towards the player are as meaningless as his Raid Shadow Legends stuff to me, I don't need a scapegoat for my choices because this is not an rpg, it's a book with occasional badly written and short-lived alternate dialogues - In fact, I'd rather that the second choice in the Tsukasa event just crashed your game or something, but maybe he gave players the choice exactly so they wouldn't have a scapegoat.

All in all, let him put whatever he wants in his story and I'll read it, if it will hold up when everything is said and done, or we'll agree that it was unnecessary in its eulogy is for another day.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Cause as I see it, LiL is not a "porn game" in the sense of what people generally expect of this genre. It is a very fucked up story of a broken person, groomed by a predator, that tries to become better and yet everytime he does the world smacks him in the head. And yet through all this crap we have some moments like his smile having Ami as a daughter and it makes it somehow worth it.

This game is still what you're describing, he's trying to get better but needs to tackle things one by one.
The one thing he hasn't tackled yet is his proclination towards magic and wizardry, how else is he going to confront it unless we get an event like Tsukasa's recently?
People are dumb and hipocrites and can't take something at face value

 

[TheSeedy1]

Yeah I think that's why I keep hanging in too despite those misgivings - the story craftsmanship is very good and its telling a story of someone subjected to terrible things who is also terrible but finding these moments where he comes up to breathe again. And when he does that, there's some really cool things that occur.

It's just natural I think to be hella leery with that content and for good reason but it's being used less like a "Hee hee fetish" hook and more of a "This shit is traumatic and wrong and you're not out of the woods yet my dude"

And I can just hide in the fun of Chika and Niki shenanigans *snerk*

Edit: And Molly's comments about how she's growing and drifting further from lolidom is fucking hilarious no matter how you slice it.

 

[Bingoogus]

I've been pretty forthright with my enjoyment of fucked up fiction and nothing this game has shown or is likely to show will ever stop me playing it. That being said... i was pretty icked at how Akira hallucinated Tsukasa as nothing but an onahole on a pedestal. Being someone who will laugh his ass off at a scene of her getting buttfucked and yet still getting icked by that scene... i don't at all struggle to imagine how some people could handle the game up until that point and so it's not hard to transfer that understanding to the various other points in the game where wizard content appears. For some people, even something as innocent as Chinami in the bath could be too ick to continue, for others, Sekai molesting wizard Akira might've been the line, and i fully expect a bunch of people to drop the game the moment we get an actual wizard sex scene in the present time with present Akira.

 

[Moonflare]

Edit: And Molly's comments about how she's growing and drifting further from lolidom is fucking hilarious no matter how you slice it.

Exactly! - No one's ever telling me this shit ain't real growth (also funny and wholesome)

Spoiler: fated to love you

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Also even Pareidolia is like daaaaaaaaaamn son lol

Spoiler: level one

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