Moonflare

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2023
2,349
13,618
599
I think there's stuff more explicit than that as well but I'm drawing a blank.
There is. When you're going around with Niki, and she takes you to a random street where (we assume) the accident happened, she tells Akira that "this is where you jumped". The use of "jump" here is odd, given that he was either in the car or out of it, "jumping" wouldn't be the first word to describe either scenario. It could be that it was the place where he jumped to death instead.

Other than that, I think it's mostly happy events. "Perfect Harmony" and "Perfect hair forever" both make reference to him leaving another place to come to Kumon-mi, but that's not necessarily linked to suicide.
 

BlackDays

Active Member
Jan 30, 2021
627
728
217
I was told, because i had the same thought it was a silent reference to him jumping, that Niki actually meant that he "startled" in that events moment.

The other thing,
as far as i remember Akira talks with Rin (at leat i think it was Rin) in some event and says that he killed himself or jumped from the roof.
 

flacc2pit

Newbie
Sep 6, 2020
38
86
86
Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.
 
Last edited:

Moonflare

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2023
2,349
13,618
599
Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.
I agree with you but that's unfortunately where we're at. I suggest you watch the commentaries to both "Il cervo" and "Times new roman" and you'll get way less invested in Selebus actually knowing what he's doing, or even giving meaning to the things he writes.

As for what he says in discord, I can't speak for everything he says, but the things that are not jokes have never been in contradiction, no (to my knowledge). Himawari's "name" (the Himawari title i mean) for instance, has been revealed and confirmed outside the game.
 
Dec 31, 2021
240
760
176
Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

jclark1337

Member
Nov 4, 2024
178
797
122
Has Sel ever contradicted himself with what he writes in the game and in discord AMAs or elsewhere outside the text?

The lack of direct acknowledgement outside of sardonic remarks when dealing with a comparison he finds unsavory makes me hesitant to accept it as a true "Word Of God" confirmation. Accepting a suicide start to the plot removes some obfuscation in various ambiguous information, it is a strong enough clue that if valid removes quite a bit of complexity about both narrative structure and authorial intent, simplifying a story where one of the main draws is its complexity without too much filler or obfuscation for obfuscation's sake. While there are hints here and there about Sensei's situation, his actions and place of being, before the start of the game, something about suicide being the catalyst for his presence in Kumon-Mi seems not only relatively simple but also unsatisfying without confirmation of other related pre-start of story theories/theories on the nature of time and place in this story's setting. Having anything the text leaves up to interpretation confirmed would consequentially impact understandings of other unanswered or unclear aspects of the story, and Sensei entering the looping city due to suicide only really works if you accept theories that fit with it. Suicide start causes a cascading assortment of ambiguity to be removed from the story, impacting it's replayability. Discovering how or why the setting works the way it does isn't what would lead to reduced replayability or "writing quality", but rthe current convuleted framework being a facade for a far simpler story due to suicide start would.

Without that layer of complexity the story becomes retroactively weaker imo, it's the blend of complex trauma focused interactions between fleshed out characters within an equally complex setting that really makes this story work. Losing one half of that formula is enough for the resulting game to not work as well. People have called into questioned Sel's intentfulness these last few updates due to it being the midpoint of the overall story, far removed from the clear end he has in mind, as well as due to the influence of fanfest and potentially related "temporary" out of character statements or actions. Agreeing with some of those observations, and considering the prospect of it all starting with a suicide, for me a lot of how I look at this game as a whole hinges on the next update. I have no reason to not trust that Sel will return to form, but I hope that future revelations will resemble those of the past, further continuing the exploration of grief, trauma, and the world the story takes place in instead of simplifying all three by calling into question the fidelity of the narrative, characterization, and themactic intent due to arguably tone deaf or tone altering words and actions of characters caused by their influence from off-screen nebulous entities.
In short: yes he trolls and contradicts himself all the time. He has a penchant for platforming and offering up ridiculous theories in order to throw people off and obfuscate whether or not we are supposed to believe his words.

Also, while I totally agree that explicitly confirming Sensei did kill himself in the beginning scene of the game could potentially weaken the narrative meaning of the story as a whole, the idea itself isnt inherently problematic within the framework of the story and including elements we've discovered up until now. Just because Sensei may have successfully committed suicide before the start of the story doesn't mean that is the beginning thread and that nothing was fucked before that.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 
Last edited:

flacc2pit

Newbie
Sep 6, 2020
38
86
86
In short: yes he trolls and contradicts himself all the time. He has a penchant for platforming and offering ridiculous theories in order to throw people off and obfuscate whether or not we are supposed to believe his words.

Also, while I totally agree that explicitly confirming Sensei did kill himself in the beginning scene of the game could potentially weaken the narrative meaning of the story as a whole, the idea itself isnt inherently problematic within the framework of the story and including elements we've discovered up until now. Just because Sensei may have successfully committed suicide before the start of the story doesn't mean that is the beginning thread and that nothing was fucked before that.]
I'm in rough agreement with you overall, but it's precisely how the suicide relates to other overarching ideas/theories/possible out of Kumon-Mi that inspired my hesitation to readily accept it. It kinda pigeon holes certian less abstract questions or unclear developments into being a certain way to allow for a suicide start to not only make sense, but also be impactful / "good writing." Putting it another way, if the suicide start is ultimately what we're working with, coming to that revelation in text due to several other less major or less individually impactful smaller mysteries being solved/revealed in the text would almost work really well. Resolving the metaphysical state of the setting or any open ended idea from the bottom up instead of top down is always more impactful, allows for the themes and character implications to resonate more, and this idea of a suicide start being acknowledged before confirmafion for all the pieces would that make it work goes directly against that. Gives a a sort of trickle down effect for theory crafting / thematic signifigance, very unsatisfying.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jclark1337

jclark1337

Member
Nov 4, 2024
178
797
122
I'm in rough agreement with you overall, but it's precisely how the suicide relates to other overarching ideas/theories/possible out of Kumon-Mi that inspired my hesitation to readily accept it. It kinda pigeon holes certian less abstract questions or unclear developments into being a certain way to allow for a suicide start to not only make sense, but also be impactful / "good writing." Putting it another way, if the suicide start is ultimately what we're working with, coming to that revelation in text due to several other less major or less individually impactful smaller mysteries being solved/revealed in the text would almost work really well. Resolving the metaphysical state of the setting or any open ended idea from the bottom up instead of top down is always more impactful, allows for the themes and character implications to resonate more, and this idea of a suicide start being acknowledged before confirmafion for all the pieces would that make it work goes directly against that. Gives a a sort of trickle down effect for theory crafting / thematic signifigance, very unsatisfying.
Fair points, but I dare to say that the story works really well using the implied suicide as a baseline and giving us a solid starting point into Sensei's psyche.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

daagagsdgd

Member
May 9, 2019
107
391
248
I agree on Alt Sekai. I am too lazy to find it but aramaug has a post about how Ami rapes Maya is very similar to how Sekai rapes Tsuneyo. Using similar words etc which totally convinces me Sekai can control Ami just like she controls Kaori.

But there is something scary about it.

We know when Sekai takes control of Kaori by the eyes.
We don't know When she takes control of Ami because they have the SAME EYES.
Think, are there really any difference between Ami and Sekai? I'm talking about the real Ami (as the narrator) and not-kyoto (as Sekai in there was clearly another victim of gods instead of the monster and god-like figure 0we had after) Sekai here. Even if we ignore all the callbacks between Ami and Sekai in Right As Rain as Aramaug has previously showed. They are still but dedicants and live only for Akira, like tools.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
And there are quite stark similarities between Sekai and Maya, just take a look at this statement:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Oh, what about I give you my favourite sentence?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

fasoaga

Member
Jul 24, 2017
301
1,136
286
Think, are there really any difference between Ami and Sekai? I'm talking about the real Ami (as the narrator) and not-kyoto (as Sekai in there was clearly another victim of gods instead of the monster and god-like figure 0we had after) Sekai here. Even if we ignore all the callbacks between Ami and Sekai in Right As Rain as Aramaug has previously showed. They are still but dedicants and live only for Akira, like tools.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
And there are quite stark similarities between Sekai and Maya, just take a look at this statement:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Oh, what about I give you my favourite sentence?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Only fundemental problem i have with your argument is... All the Sekai scenes you shared from the same event chain. And i don't believe she is Sekai.

Similar to what other people said here, Sekai in these events is weird. I mean she is way too casual and lenient with Ami even after Nodoka scene. Instead of a real character, she is made up by memories and thoughts about what a perfect mother would be in Ami's mind.

Whole event chain is what Ami thinks a perfect world:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Or i just convinced myself so hard i can't see any other way. If so, i'm ready to wear one of the dunce hats that Bingoogus distributes.
 

shmurfer

Engaged Member
Dec 29, 2019
3,123
4,835
387
Didn't Maya get that phrase from Sensei?
If she did, it wasn't ingame. It currently appears in the game 5 times, first time was Maya's second box delivery (Close your eyes), then the second Maya use in the picture. The time Tsubasa uses it which is definitely a chapter 2 event because bonus is here in the script. Then Sensei uses it in chapter 4 just before he spends 2 weeks inside the house with Ami before leaving to the school. Then the time Ami Prime uses it in the chapter 4 halloween reset.

Except Akira and Ayane had never had sex. WHY
The ami redemption is gonna have to be hella tragic, she's such a dick right now.
 

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
2,644
9,340
637
Only fundemental problem i have with your argument is... All the Sekai scenes you shared from the same event chain. And i don't believe she is Sekai.

Similar to what other people said here, Sekai in these events is weird. I mean she is way too casual and lenient with Ami even after Nodoka scene. Instead of a real character, she is made up by memories and thoughts about what a perfect mother would be in Ami's mind.

Whole event chain is what Ami thinks a perfect world:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Or i just convinced myself so hard i can't see any other way. If so, i'm ready to wear one of the dunce hats that Bingoogus distributes.
Not sure if I've mentioned this before, but that may not actually be Ami's perfect world. It may be Sensei's:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 
4.10 star(s) 338 Votes