Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[LessonsInDissonance]

1- The first half was one of the cringiest birthing/nuclear family propaganda I've ever seen, how did this VN go from being about how sexual abuse damages people beyond repair to "having a tradwife and a child fixes all problems, even for a predator". There isn't even an argument that can be made about narrative intention here since the only unfortunate thing about this situation is that it ended too soon. Sel genuinely believes this is a "good ending" for Akira that would have worked. And don't get me started on how weird it is for Ayane to be completely fine with suddenly being in a life where she doesn't have contact with any of her friends, like can't you at least write her being somewhat lonely? These characters have stopped feeling human a long time ago. Himawari knows about what her dad does and how she was born, and instead of reacting like any human being would (with disgust, disbelief, and conflicting feelings), she only has positive things to say about Akira and his relationship with Ayane. Actually disgusting writing.

2- Sel can drop hundreds of lines saying this but he will never convince me about the whole "Maya is a fake delusion while Ami is real" thing, that's just Ami/Sekai propaganda. He's either baiting really hard and gonna flip it on its head eventually, or he's actually the most shallow writer to ever exist since he's clearly just trying to spite Maya fans. I don't know if people here realize this, but if Maya is actually fake that would mean that Akira has no real world victims at all, and we're already lowering his accountability for the Kumon Mi actions (especially with the horrible implications about his true age), are we heading towards a point where Akira has actually never done anything wrong? Also, Himawari herself said that if anyone was a faker/shapeshifter, it would be Ami and Niki, she never brought up Maya. Like, come on. This just feels like an malicious attack on the people who actually took this narrative seriously and tried to make sense of it by following the clues, we are being punished for thinking critically about the story and trying to analyze it instead of "feeling" it or whatever Sel whines about all the time.

3- The entire lore of this story lost all of its aura; the way these reveals are being dropped in such a boring fashion, and the really dry irony-poisoned American humor that's shoved into every line no matter the context or tone kill any existential horror that used to be present before. I actually can't believe that Sel somehow managed to make LiL's lore feel so poorly thought out and shallow by fucking up the exposition so bad. Even the most amateurish writers can do better than that.

4- I deeply despise that even after promising Maya he would do his best to get her back, he hasn't done ANYTHING to progress in this world or find out more information, yet the implication with this update seems to be that he will do that for Himawari's sake. I can almost imagine Sel smirking to himself at the thought of knocking down Maya fans and saying "See, the daughter's pure love moves him in ways Maya's lustful fake love never could".

5- And of course, the most predictable thing ended up happening at the end with them getting their memories erased and returning to the status quo, because we can't ever have anything destabilize the precious sandbox structure that Sel is too comfortable writing, it happened with the previous timeline hopping update and I just knew it would happen here again. And yeah, it's not 100% erasure since they still retain hints of information, but we all know this will not lead to any substantial progress until many years later. Absolute garbage.

All in all, this was perhaps the worst update in the game's history, and might as well have been written by Epstein and Shinzo Abe collaborating. It is honestly not possible to interpret this update as anything but an endorsement of grooming, and the same is beginning to apply to the game as a whole, and I have to question the people who would defend this (especially after talking with someone who is typically critical of LiL, and their stance is about how "this game is more nuanced than saying grooming is wrong" lol, okay man, I guess pedophilia and grooming have nuance now, yikes). No offense to anyone here in particular, but considering the kind of site this is, I'm not expecting many people to see or care about the moral problems with this narrative. So the last point I want to make is that even from just a pure storytelling perspective, this update was a massive disappointment and a failure to pay off any of the investment we had in the lore/mystery.

I will of course keep reading this travesty to watch how it burns, because it's always great to have something to get angry over. But this may be my last post here (not that I post often anyway).

 

[LoveWhiteHairedGirl]

The first half was one of the cringiest birthing/nuclear family propaganda I've ever seen

Yes, you're right. Because we need even more Himawaris.

 

[Bingoogus]

Yes, you're right. Because we need even more Himawaris.

I just want to see her get dicked... i know she's not that kinda character but damn... time traveling daughter incest... HNNG...

 

[AgumenticR]

Preface: I'm under the impression that even the people critical of this game have positive thoughts about this update, so I'm not expecting anyone to agree with what I have to say here, but I needed to get it out of my system.

Spoiler: Rant about 0.53.0

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I seriously don't get why some people have such a strong reaction about Maya's provenance. Does it really matter whether she crawled out of a womb or from wherever wishes come from? She is exactly as real in either case, in my opinion.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Yes, you're right. Because we need even more Himawaris.

Yes! We collect and battle our Himawari's to see who's the strongest Himawari....

But we all know Moonflare would break into our homes and steal our Himawaris. Especially for the coveted Limited Edition 'Himameowri.'

Spoiler: Bankruptcy

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[harrytrumankr]

Yeah, that's my main hesitancy as well, it's underwhelming from a story perspective. She's been gone for two years with no word except a very brief glimpse of her in prison in Noriko's TSS (we think).

IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS ALREADY??? OH MY GOD TIME DOES FLY

 

[Moonflare]

time traveling daughter incest...

that's Ripples.

we need even more Himawaris.

Spoiler: yes

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so I'm not expecting anyone to agree with what I have to say here, but I needed to get it out of my system.

I took the time to read it all and I think you're right - in the sense that there's no point in replying to any of what you wrote. So I'll just say a few words about the post itself:

Spoiler: a rant gone too far

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Rant all you want, but include talking down the entire thread on your rant and you're just ignored from now on.

Especially for the coveted Limited Edition 'Himameowri.'

Damnit. All these years without spending a single dollar on a gacha going down the drain.

 

[harrytrumankr]

I just want to see her get dicked... i know she's not that kinda character but damn... time traveling daughter incest... HNNG...

We've already fucked our own daughter, what stops us from fucking our own daughter?

 

[harrytrumankr]

I seriously don't get why some people have such a strong reaction about Maya's provenance. Does it really matter whether she crawled out of a womb or from wherever wishes come from? She is exactly as real in either case, in my opinion.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it...does it make a sound?
If perception is what makes it real, then does perception make something fake real?
Does it then matter if something is fake as long as you want it to be real?

 

[harrytrumankr]

One thing I sighed about reading the update is that it proves a few points from Sekai and Ami in the Kyoto Timeline. Even if something is unearned or fake, we will take it. A random Sensei popped up in their timeline, replacing their original one. What happened? Halloween went on ordinarily as it did, even the female Arakawas just acknowledged it, and shrugged. They don't care if this Sensei is theirs or if he is real or right, if it makes them happy, they'll take it. So does it matter if the Pocket Dimension Hima-chan is real? Does it matter if we deserve this ending? Nevermind that, we sure as SHIT do want it to be ours without the effort and the sweat. That's my answer. That's Sekai's answer. That's Ami's answer. That's probably Ayane and Akira's until the real Hima-chan showed up. It's right to point out Ayane and Akira's shrugging off of their original world. But damn, I think we gotta look at ourselves in the mirror if we wanna shame them for it. Will YOU take the happy (not necessarily good or just) ending if it were offered to you on a silver platter without extra charge?

 

[Moonflare]

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it...does it make a sound?

no, because a sound is the interpretation of vibrations through an auditory system. That's why we say that dog whistles make no sound (to us), even though it obviously does to dogs.

That extra dose of irrelevant information aside, I think it all depends on how Selebus will decide on the concept of existence and self in the story.

Spoiler: thoughts

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I don't know to which extent Selebus has thought this through to be honest as implications are complex in whichever way he chooses to go.

 

[hcguy]

I love it when people make the use of the ignore button so easy.

 

[harrytrumankr]

I do concur with the criticism that Akira and Ayane fit into the pocket dimension too naturally. Though, giving some thought into it, I think it's a reflection of how horny everyone naturally gets in Kumon-mi. Maybe it's a consequence of the world having its own mind. Kumon-mi's more horny, Himawari's more wholesome, they pull their strings on the cast to shove them around mentally.

That being said. What makes it all so easy to accept to them is how simple happiness could be. If you asked Akira before 0.53 what happiness is, he probably would say something about wanting Maya back and everything. Even if he did get Maya back, he still has 2 yanderes to deal with, having to live with the consequence of grooming his students into someone unrecognizable, forever emotionally maiming people who loved him, unrequited; the world itself doing tricks on him. He probably would be happy to weather the storm with Maya, but it isn't like there isn't anything to worry about.

In contrast, Himawari's pocket dimension literally has nothing for him to be concerned with. Turns out, you really could live with running around from all of your problems and a fresh start. A click, and everything dragging you down is gone. You have no reason to start new problems, no reason to go back to old ones (That's why he refused to return to Kumon-mi), so why don't you just...live with it? Indulge in it? You've been given a second chance. Heck, you even get to experience the pure familial love that you missed out on, why isn't that right to you? Having lived through the midst of Lessons in Love, who knew life could be so simple?

That's why I don't think it's a cliche-themed update. It isn't just 'hurr durr trad family' on its own, but a life that Akira didn't even know he wanted. It showed him that there is a place and time somewhere in the far future of possibilities where he'll be away from his problems, isn't that the point of the update instead?

 

[Bingoogus]

I love it when people make the use of the ignore button so easy.

Yeah, i've had Harry on ignore for a while now, no doubt for the same reason you've just added him, waffle.

 

[harrytrumankr]

no, because a sound is the interpretation of vibrations through an auditory system. That's why we say that dog whistles make no sound (to us), even though it obviously does to dogs.

That extra dose of irrelevant information aside, I think it all depends on how Selebus will decide on the concept of existence and self in the story.

Spoiler: thoughts

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I don't know to which extent Selebus has thought this through to be honest as implications are complex in whichever way he chooses to go.

Maybe the vision imparted to us in this update could give a few clues to how this could be solved as a problem. My mind is a mess right now but I am thinking of the interdimensional travel agency idea Himawari has proposed. And the idea of breaking metaphysical laws to wish new/old worlds into existence, like Maya did. Can we bring dead worlds, dead possibilities, dead people back alive in the end?

I digress. Honestly, I wouldn't want to think too hard about it. Regardless of whatever scenarios raised, Pocket-Hima is dead. There is no entity with independent agency, with memories accumulated solely in the mind of Pocket-Hima, that is alive. The cause of that erasure is Real-Hima. Clear as day.

If anything, this game has taught me not to think too hard about it all. Both in terms of lore and in terms of morality.

 

[SymbolicSalad]

Anyone know if there's any Lessons in Love VRChat models?

 

[Detective Dc345]

We've already fucked our own daughter, what stops us from fucking our own daughter?

We????????

I seriously don't get why some people have such a strong reaction about Maya's provenance. Does it really matter whether she crawled out of a womb or from wherever wishes come from? She is exactly as real in either case, in my opinion.

A direct comparison for the newest piece of Maya lore is Maria from Silent Hill 2.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Silent Hill 2 & 0.53

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Addon: I'm really starting to notice a lot of similarities between Silent Hill 2 and Lessons in Love.

 

[harrytrumankr]

We????????

And once he goes off the beaten path of being an incestuous, child diddling, piece of shit, which is Maya's only purpose to remind him of, does he become a better person.

TLDR: No Maya = Better Akira
[/SPOILER]

Agree with the above. I do think we need more comparisons of Sensei's ideal scenarios to get an idea of what he would really be satisfied with.

Anyways, a bit less serious, but I am gonna go insane if he gets the happy ending just because he diddled a blonde teenager instead of a ponytail loli. Well, again, morality isn't the question sometimes in this game

 

[Moonflare]

A direct comparison for the newest piece of Maya lore is Maria from Silent Hill 2 + [following deep comparative thesis].

Who are you?

Spoiler

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I have no idea when was the last time I saw the Detective writing an analysis.

 

[Bingoogus]

I have no idea when was the last time I saw the Detective writing an analysis.

That's DESKtective to you ma'am.

Also, wtf am I doing in there? My dunce smooth brain ain't a theory crafter!