Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.54.0] [Selebus]

[Ehmgeeaye]

Wow the first few lines of the 0.54 Kirin scene made me physically ill

 

[bobloblawwwwwww]

Real.

Spoiler

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[LessonsInDissonance]

Real.

Spoiler

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how would she know tho?

 

[Moonflare]

"Is there anything more traumatic than simply being born?"

Quite literally the first scene of the project I'm working on.

Spoiler: would you be born

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I imagine I should release a demo here by the end of 2026. Last Sovereign is a good idea of what to expect.

Biggest thing you need to catch that won't give you a warning is Chika's Schadenfreude.

Iirc the guide mod does give you a warning about Schadenfreude, and I think it even warns you about the red path on having Miku lose the competition. What it didn't warn you about was the red path on choosing to "Kill" Kirin during the game.

 

[Klldarkness]

Stealing this from the Guide Mod discussion cause we can always talk about Stomachache a bit more.

Which is a barrier she wouldn't have crossed if you didn't destroy her in order to rebuild her anew.

Spoiler: Long Io and 0.53 discourse

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/endrant lmao

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Quite literally the first scene of the project I'm working on.

Spoiler: would you be born

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I imagine I should release a demo here by the end of 2026. Last Sovereign is a good idea of what to expect.

Love The Last Sovereign! I checked it out at your recommendation about several months ago at this point. Played through the whole thing and definitely don’t regret it. What a ride…

So if you say your project’s anything like that, then I’m definitely on board. I’m curious to see what you ultimately come up with. Best of luck!

 

[fasoaga]

Well, how do you reconcile Noriko's age in "Kyoto" if she's already sticking to Akira, and yet Ami hasn't been born?

I'm just assuming it's all different realities because otherwise I have no idea. Maybe Selebus doesn't know how to math.

Or Sekai met Akira way before and only started to date Nozomu so she could be close to Akira. Why? Because he is child of Yuu? Because he is child of Saki? Maybe he was such a cute baby?

Or sel is bad at math.

 

[Ehmgeeaye]

Or Sekai met Akira way before and only started to date Nozomu so she could be close to Akira. Why? Because he is child of Yuu? Because he is child of Saki? Maybe he was such a cute baby?

Or sel is bad at math.

Apocalypse-induced Happy Events are known to be very consistent with reality, of course.

 

[bobloblawwwwwww]

Spoiler: Sana question

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[Ehmgeeaye]

Spoiler: Sana question

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with the latest release adding another part to the Transpacific Sadness Symposium like Sana, I imagine it's culminating to something more. Plus, Sana did sort of let Kirin get SA'd which caused the scene/part.. so who knows?

 

[bobloblawwwwwww]

with the latest release adding another part to the Transpacific Sadness Symposium like Sana, I imagine it's culminating to something more. Plus, Sana did sort of let Kirin get SA'd which caused the scene/part.. so who knows?

Oh yea, interesting point. I'm going to need to pay more attention to the TPSSes when I come upon them again in my replay. i have a tendency to gloss over some of the weirder parts of this game sometimes.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

Spoiler: Sana question

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Not really, no.

That was a thing that was happening through chapter 3 and then Sensei obviously started 4 in a coma - Sana had a personality shift in the interim and I don't think we've explictly seen her being messed with like that since.

We don't really know what the deal is there I don't think, whether it resulted in Sana changing or if she's just always been a closeted piece of garbage and that's been brought to the forefront. Perhaps that was the goal?

 

[bobloblawwwwwww]

One more question, someone mentioned the autoVN mod that does all the events in chronological order, is there simply a list that has all the events, main and character, listed in chronological order? I know it probably doesn't matter very much but it'd be interesting to do.

 

[aramaug]

(Also, Ami shows absolutely no indication of being aware of time loops at this point so the chapter 4 reveal feels like a hamfisted retcon but this is just my opinion)

Last time I played through the beginning of the game, I came away with the impression that Ami knew what was going on from the start. Here's four clues to that effect (with the benefit of hindsight):

Spoiler: 1. She knows about the journal Maya made for Sensei and what it says.

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Spoiler: 2. It's been a very long time since she called her uncle by his real name.

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Spoiler: 3. She gives Sensei a very conspicuous tutorial on how to survive Kumon-mi.

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Spoiler: 4. She acts like she's concerned about Sensei's amnesia, but it's just a pretense.

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Bonus clue from much later in the game, but also pertaining to the first scenes:

Spoiler: Della

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My belief continues to be:

• Ami has known about the resets from the start.
• She remained stagnant and was afraid to grow as a person or risk change in the world, but she wasn't murdering anyone or trying to advance some master plan. She was content to play her role for an unending stream of fake Senseis.
• She has a mental infection that has caused her to go increasingly mad and do things she otherwise wouldn't, culminating in "Della".

I think the last point especially is being ignored by everyone taking the "Evil Ami has always been here" claim at face value. Her infection was growing for multiple chapters before Evil Ami's sudden reveal, and it's in the narration as well so it's not just an act.

 

[DeanNoriko]

Last time I played through the beginning of the game, I came away with the impression that Ami knew what was going on from the start. Here's four clues to that effect (with the benefit of hindsight):

Spoiler: 1. She knows about the journal Maya made for Sensei and what it says.

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Spoiler: 2. It's been a very long time since she called her uncle by his real name.

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Spoiler: 3. She gives Sensei a very conspicuous tutorial on how to survive Kumon-mi.

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Spoiler: 4. She acts like she's concerned about Sensei's amnesia, but it's just a pretense.

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Bonus clue from much later in the game, but also pertaining to the first scenes:

Spoiler: Della

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My belief continues to be:

• Ami has known about the resets from the start.
• She remained stagnant and was afraid to grow as a person or risk change in the world, but she wasn't murdering anyone or trying to advance some master plan. She was content to play her role for an unending stream of fake Senseis.
• She has a mental infection that has caused her to go increasingly mad and do things she otherwise wouldn't, culminating in "Della".

I think the last point especially is being ignored by everyone taking the "Evil Ami has always been here" claim at face value. Her infection was growing for multiple chapters before Evil Ami's sudden reveal, and it's in the narration as well so it's not just an act.

I agree with your analysis.

I think the beauty of the way Selebus implemented this is that at face value, for a new player of this game, this whole tutorial section comes off as a nod or parody to VNs in that the MC is getting introduced to certain mechanics and to the world by the first character they encounter. The player registers this mostly as a funny trope, a joke, not as something that the character actually knows and says, because you wouldn't question it at this point.

In hindsight, as you said, it's at most a coincidental parody, and in fact just a scripted scenario, a play that Ami most likely performs for each new Sensei. A tutorial indeed, just not aimed at the player but at Sensei.

I'm still not super sold on Ami not having some form of evil inside her all along though.
I could see Sekai having a say in this, by increasing her influence on her over time, possibly since when she died. But I don't think Ami suddenly transformed from innocent and gullible to evil and cunning. The potential was always there, whether it was suppressed subconsciously but came out slowly or whether Ami knowingly played a role and acted all this time until she couldn't be bothered anymore, I don't think there is enough evidence for either side.
Because if we assume that innocent Ami literally turned into evil Ami, we would need to be shown the trigger. And maybe we will, maybe something did happen. I just don't see it yet.

 

[aramaug]

How do you reconcile that with Sekai playing peekaboo with what pretty much has to be a baby Akira? That game stops working by the first birthday for just about all kids as they gain object permanence by that point...

I agree that it doesn't make much sense. Moonflare covered the relevant info, but I'll give my own perspective. Ghost Sekai says that Akira played peekaboo with her as well as with his mother.

Spoiler

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On the other hand, Sensei is unambiguous when he describes his trauma to Noriko: unless he's lying or incorrect, before Sekai found him in the closet he had never met her and she didn't even know he existed.

Spoiler

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• Possibility #1: Sekai was around him as a baby, but left before he was old enough to remember her, then returned later on. But if that were the case, surely Nozomu and Saki would know who she is.
• Possibility #2: Sekai played peekaboo with a five-year-old (or whatever). Could it have helped a traumatized kid come out of his shell? It doesn't seem likely to me, but I don't know much about child psychology.
• Possibility #3: One of them is lying. Of the two, I'm more inclined to trust a seemingly sane Sensei than a Ghost Sekai appearing directly in his malfunctioning mind. I can't come up with any reason for Sensei to lie to Noriko about it.
• Possibility #4: Some weird timeline thing, like Sekai met Akira as a baby in this world's timeline, but Sensei didn't meet her until later in his original world. I'm throwing this in for completeness, but I'm not giving it any credence unless we get concrete evidence that there were multiple versions of Akira's childhood.

 

[Moonflare]

Everyone's taking the "Evil Ami has always been here" claim at face value. Her infection was growing for multiple chapters before Evil Ami's sudden reveal, and it's in the narration as well so it's not just an act.

You're welcome:

Red Ami's barking mad. Stone under Hima's foot.
One wants you on your bed. The other will take you out for food.
First is guaranteed to make you sad, the second brings in fatherhood.
The rhymes were not that rad, and yet they still hold true.
Red is always bad, while blue is often good.

I'm sorry, I'll see myself out

 

[Klldarkness]

I agree with your analysis.

I think the beauty of the way Selebus implemented this is that at face value, for a new player of this game, this whole tutorial section comes off as a nod or parody to VNs in that the MC is getting introduced to certain mechanics and to the world by the first character they encounter. The player registers this mostly as a funny trope, a joke, not as something that the character actually knows and says, because you wouldn't question it at this point.

In hindsight, as you said, it's at most a coincidental parody, and in fact just a scripted scenario, a play that Ami most likely performs for each new Sensei. A tutorial indeed, just not aimed at the player but at Sensei.

I'm still not super sold on Ami not having some form of evil inside her all along though.
I could see Sekai having a say in this, by increasing her influence on her over time, possibly since when she died. But I don't think Ami suddenly transformed from innocent and gullible to evil and cunning. The potential was always there, whether it was suppressed subconsciously but came out slowly or whether Ami knowingly played a role and acted all this time until she couldn't be bothered anymore, I don't think there is enough evidence for either side.
Because if we assume that innocent Ami literally turned into evil Ami, we would need to be shown the trigger. And maybe we will, maybe something did happen. I just don't see it yet.

This actually fits really well with my earlier mention of "Subversion of Expectations".

It's a 'Game' so you obviously expect for there to be a tutorial of sorts. But if the tutorial is actually a massive hint that Ami knew about the timeloop from the very start? That would be wild, and thematically fitting.

I do also want to point out, again, that Nu Maya says that the "Do Not Open" boxes come from Ami, and those appear very early in Chapter 1.

Whether or not Nu Maya is correct, we don't know, but if she is, that's another piece of the puzzle there.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

This actually fits really well with my earlier mention of "Subversion of Expectations".

It's a 'Game' so you obviously expect for there to be a tutorial of sorts. But if the tutorial is actually a massive hint that Ami knew about the timeloop from the very start? That would be wild, and thematically fitting.

I do also want to point out, again, that Nu Maya says that the "Do Not Open" boxes come from Ami, and those appear very early in Chapter 1.

Whether or not Nu Maya is correct, we don't know, but if she is, that's another piece of the puzzle there.

Aren't the boxes just Maya's notes/journals?

Ami explicitly said that she was trying to emotionally trigger Sensei by sending Nu Maya out with those boxes when she cockblocked her, all that shows definitively is that Ami knew about the boxes and the fact that Maya Prime would take them to school with Sensei.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

Possibility #1: Sekai was around him as a baby, but left before he was old enough to remember her, then returned later on. But if that were the case, surely Nozomu and Saki would know who she is.

Maybe they did and we just don't know that yet?

As far as Ami goes I still don't think she knew 100% of the time but those points from chapter 1 are interesting to be fair, they are a bit on the nose with what we know now in mind. I hadn't really taken Ami's apparent infection into account so I might rethink things a bit, I kind of just brushed it off as a metaphor lol