Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.54.0] [Selebus]

[Perniciousducks]

I like the approach Silent Hill has with puzzles. They can be solved independent of whether you understand the lore or story, but if you do then the puzzles have a deeper and more cerebral meaning.

But how would players get to feel unbearably smug when someone else asks a question? It’s the closest they get to feeling like they are their idol.

And before someone accuses me of being bitter about not being able to solve them. I was translating his dumb hex crap by copypasta’ing it from the game code and since he mixes it in at puzzle time the puzzle answers are all right there. So no, I never had any issues with puzzles as far as I remember.

 

[alex2011]

I can't believe what I'm reading. The sexual content in LiL is paramount for the thematic integrity of the game. Honestly, I find most sex scenes in this game shit (not fap-worthy). Hell, I've never even touched my dick while playing this game. But I recognize their importance in the narrative.

For example, while I read the last sex scene with Niki, I was focused on absorbing the bits and pieces of lore sprinkled in the dialogue. Mostly ignoring the act itself. Consider the last event with Miku, Sensei's deviancy and thoughts are made clear. His perversion wholly manifested for the audience. He seemed exactly like Sekai. Most of them are nice, in that way. I'd be perfectly okay with all the sex scenes that don't add anything lorewise being cut from the game. I'd be delighted with that, in fact.

But if this game skipped all sex scenes and abstracted them away like: and so they fucked. It would make for an exceedingly dry and lifeless piece. Huggy Boy would like a word with you (and before anyone says: "Oh no, but Huggy Boy was an entirely different beast. It isn't a fair comparison". Yes, I am aware & I agree. This was mostly a quip).

So yes. LiL is unmistakably a porn game. A well-written one. One that has built fantastic, authentic characters. Its atmosphere is unique.

Yet one, nonetheless. These qualities are not mutually exclusive. Maybe not a porn game in the strictest sense, but at that point, I'd classify it as a shitty porn game anyway, as no one would read LiL for the porn. There are much better things out there in that sense.

Concerning the "DRM" affair, I'm not angry at the dev or that dude who made it (who promptly got banned?). That my saves were deleted—and promptly restored—thankfully, I know how to do that; was entirely on me for my carelessness. As a pirate, I'm way past caring about his morality, or the lack thereof. I do not believe that his actions are inherently justified (Illusion and everything), notwithstanding in the same vein as how I'm not personally concerned in explaining myself or justifying my piracy; I wouldn't expect the dev to be morally justified in his attempts at preventing my access to the game.

I do think, however, that he screwed the pooch only by fucking up the game for some of his subscribers and seemingly being okay with putting untested junk inside his software. Bad optics.

Paramount and yet skippable simply by not incrementing the lust meter. It was never paramount, it has always been considered side content by the developer himself. You don't make paramount events skippable, that's a big no no. To make them skippable is to invite people to skip them, to invite people to skip them leads to players doing just that and then any actual paramount point in the event is missed.

Huggy boy was lifeless because it was born out of an unwanted need to replace the main version on Patreon, he didn't want to make that version, Patreon forced his hand by not allowing the main version. Had it been made with intention, it would not have been lifeless and would have served as a good example of my point about the porn in the main version.

I'll leave it at fundamentally disagreeing with what you just wrote in this sentence.
This is a VN, not a book, and visuals are important.
I agree on the lust events in-between the main events, but you can't deny that there are some routes necessary to progress the main story, and in all of them afair Sensei ends up having sex, Ayane being just the first one, again, afair.

Visuals are important, sexual content is not. SFW visuals can be substituted.

As far as lust events within main events, not between, they are completely skippable. For example, the first beach event has lust events that don't interrupt the flow of the beach event with their absence if you don't have the lust for them.

Man, with so many walls of text, I wonder who's the obsessed one with who.

We're literally just typing on keyboards, discussing a bit of what's a "porn game" and people bringup again the piracy issue like that's all you can think of. Rent free, I tell you.

Can't we just go back to talk about the game itself, as so many would prefer?

Or would you rather continue being angry at the very existence of this pirate site, and want to virtue-signal about all this bs?

This is the LiL thread, a thread for a game with a developer that has no issue with keeping drama on piracy going. This has been an ongoing argument for years at this point, I doubt it will end regardless of anyone here, someone else will eventually step forward and bring it up again.

The idea that the puzzles cannot be rewritten in a way to just be long, boring stalls like the rest of the game, and not fit the exact same function of delaying the user from reaching the roof, if not more so, is hilarious.

If you pay attention to the nonsense blather during a season then the puzzles don’t delay you at all, thus breaking the whole theme of them. Where as you could just write lame stalls to replace the lame puzzles and it will universally fit the theme of the gods trying to stop sensei from reaching the roof.

They can be, but this would only serve one of the purposes for the current puzzles, the purpose of punishing the players who do not pay attention for important details would go unfulfilled while the purpose of serving as a way to visualize the resistance to Sensei reaching the roof would be served.

Okay, well I raise my developer's law against your law (see attached images). I hate being this dude but I rejoined the discord because I remembered Sel having a 'debate' with a user over the sexual content of the game some time back.

From his words, it sounds like the sexual content is vital to the narrative, like the puzzles. He even calls it an 'HVN'.

And the content being missable doesn't make it non-integral. Especially in a VN where the player can make choices, if anything the missable/ignorable aspect solidifies it's importance given the medium. Good Uncle and Bad Uncle are an aspect of the game and offer valid insight to Ami's character as a whole; is the bad uncle route unnecessary because you have to engage in "side content"?

I fucking despise food analogies, but if you go to a buffet and only choose certain foods, that doesn't make the other foods unnecessary.


For real. The last couple pages are us debating the themes and design of the game. I'll never understand the mindset of someone claiming to be tired of 'the drama' as they proceed to dig it back up.

Notice how absolutely nowhere in your images does he say anything about porn or sex, sexual contact is not the only form of "intimacy" there is. As far as 'my law,' I'm just echoing what Sel himself said repeatedly in this thread while he was here, so my law is his by association.

You don't make integral things skippable, that's bad design. Anything made skippable is to be considered non-integral by default as the ability to skip is absolutely going to be used.

If you go to a buffet at all, any food is unnecessary, but the point is the ability to just get what you want. That is basically what Sel did here to a degree, he gave an adult VN with the option of porn on the side, a buffet that serves both porn and non-porn adult content.

 

[DrFree]

You don't make integral things skippable, that's bad design. Anything made skippable is to be considered non-integral by default as the ability to skip is absolutely going to be used.

Man,dunno about this, at all, either. Like how much the content changes depending on the good uncle bad uncle choice.
Bad uncle even has an event that's entirely sex and the simple title of it is already a huge red flag.
Missable? Yes. Not integral? Dunno man, I think the very act of the choices is integral to it, and so is some of the missable content.
Again, agree to disagree.

To me it's just a bunch of pretentiousness and ego talking by some authors not wanting to be associated with what's essentially nukige, , games where porn's the main dish and purpose, but that's it.
Has porn in it, it's a porn game.
F/SN is a porn game with mostly story.

Edit: WIll this be solved if we call this "erotic" game?
That's what eroge stands for anyway, and "erotica" is basically book porn for women anyway.

 

[Wardtnaci]

Could be the update where we finally get the final side character, currently marked like that as a fancy spoiler tag.

This dumb bitch probably.

View attachment 2481033

Probably a good call, since she was sent back to the beginning of it all in last reset event. The Daughter of Ayane and Sensei/Akira lost to the 2nd reset, maybe, who "got lucky and skipped living through the whole 'infinite high school' thing". Named after his favorite flower or so she tells him. What's the consensus name for her? I went with Daisy since that's the flower on her head.

Edit: I meant to say 3rd reset not 2nd reset.

I have a suspicion that Tsuenyo is already capable of crossing over to the end of the world and doesn't disappear like the other girls or changes like Ami does. Also that she has been able to for a long time but isn't aware that she crosses over probably because she might be always @ the Ramen shop looking after her dad. While she is doing that, because of her sheltered life, she has no inclination to go outside and see no one or wonder why there is no business. Her Dad might have something to do with it, in the sense that he dies, maybe?, at the moment the end of the world begins or is the cause of it. I say this because of what she said at the Ferris Wheel (Event "Sudden Light") in where she doesn't remember doing or talking about certain things but has a vague feeling like she has. Also how at the start End of the World (Event "December 28, 2020") she is leaving and saying bye to Akira you can see the shadow of one of the other girls already in doll form. She also sees them in that form and thinks nothing of it, again probably due to sheltered life. So its probably safe to say that in the 3rd reset "Word of the Day" when you call her it is actually her at the Ramen Shop.

 

[ReegusLeroy]

Paramount and yet skippable simply by not incrementing the lust meter. It was never paramount, it has always been considered side content by the developer himself. You don't make paramount events skippable, that's a big no no. To make them skippable is to invite people to skip them, to invite people to skip them leads to players doing just that and then any actual paramount point in the event is missed.

Huggy boy was lifeless because it was born out of an unwanted need to replace the main version on Patreon, he didn't want to make that version, Patreon forced his hand by not allowing the main version. Had it been made with intention, it would not have been lifeless and would have served as a good example of my point about the porn in the main version.



Visuals are important, sexual content is not. SFW visuals can be substituted.

As far as lust events within main events, not between, they are completely skippable. For example, the first beach event has lust events that don't interrupt the flow of the beach event with their absence if you don't have the lust for them.


This is the LiL thread, a thread for a game with a developer that has no issue with keeping drama on piracy going. This has been an ongoing argument for years at this point, I doubt it will end regardless of anyone here, someone else will eventually step forward and bring it up again.


They can be, but this would only serve one of the purposes for the current puzzles, the purpose of punishing the players who do not pay attention for important details would go unfulfilled while the purpose of serving as a way to visualize the resistance to Sensei reaching the roof would be served.


Notice how absolutely nowhere in your images does he say anything about porn or sex, sexual contact is not the only form of "intimacy" there is. As far as 'my law,' I'm just echoing what Sel himself said repeatedly in this thread while he was here, so my law is his by association.

He calls it intimacy but he's referring to sex, I'll attach another cap but you can literally search the conversation on discord if you don't believe me, it was in response to someone that had a similar viewpoint to you on porn in LiL.

And if you would notice in one of screencaps, he says HVN, hentai visual novel. Again, search the discord if you don't believe me or that it was referencing LiL. I'm not sure how you'll acrobat this one around but I honestly can't wait to see.

You don't make integral things skippable, that's bad design. Anything made skippable is to be considered non-integral by default as the ability to skip is absolutely going to be used.

If you go to a buffet at all, any food is unnecessary, but the point is the ability to just get what you want. That is basically what Sel did here to a degree, he gave an adult VN with the option of porn on the side, a buffet that serves both porn and non-porn adult content.

Does this mean the story and plot aren't integral since I can just enable 'skip through unseen text'? Are the hexadecimal sidecontent since I can play through the game never knowing what it meant?

EDIT:
And Alex if you say the story and plot are integral because you can't skip the puzzle sections I'm going to commit larceny since you can't avoid NSFW scenes entirely either.

 

[DrFree]

Probably a good call, since she was sent back to the beginning of it all in last reset event. The Daughter of Ayane and Sensei/Akira lost to the 2nd reset, maybe, who "got lucky and skipped living through the whole 'infinite high school' thing". Named after his favorite flower or so she tells him. What's the consensus name for her? I went with Daisy since that's the flower on her head.

I have a suspicion that Tsuenyo is already capable of crossing over to the end of the world and doesn't disappear like the other girls or changes like Ami does. Also that she has been able to for a long time but isn't aware that she crosses over probably because she might be always @ the Ramen shop looking after her dad. While she is doing that, because of her sheltered life, she has no inclination to go outside and see no one or wonder why there is no business. Her Dad might have something to do with it, in the sense that he dies, maybe?, at the moment the end of the world begins or is the cause of it. I say this because of what she said at the Ferris Wheel (Event "Sudden Light") in where she doesn't remember doing or talking about certain things but has a vague feeling like she has. Also how at the start End of the World (Event "December 28, 2020") she is leaving and saying bye to Akira you can see the shadow of one of the other girls already in doll form. She also sees them in that form and thinks nothing of it, again probably due to sheltered life. So its probably safe to say that in the 3rd reset "Word of the Day" when you call her it is actually her at the Ramen Shop.

Daisy is pretty high up there, but "Himawari" is the most likely, Sel being a weeb.

 

[Bingoogus]

I'm going to commit larceny

Hey, leave Larceny alone, they're only mildly insane.

 

[barglenarglezous]

What's the consensus name for her? I went with Daisy since that's the flower on her head.

Game context provides three options, and there's a case to be made for all three.

1) Himawari (sunflower). Sunflowers pop up all over the place in the game, especially around Ayane.
2) Sakura (cherry blossom) Sekai used cherry blossom shampoo, Ami has started using it, and Akira has waxed poetic about how fond he is of the smell (this is the only time I recall him ever actually talking about a flower)
3) Daisy -- she wears one, but there's also the song Daisy Bell, a version of which plays a multiple points in the game

Himawari seems to be the most popular here, though. I went with Sakura, personally.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Probably a good call, since she was sent back to the beginning of it all in last reset event. The Daughter of Ayane and Sensei/Akira lost to the 2nd reset, maybe, who "got lucky and skipped living through the whole 'infinite high school' thing". Named after his favorite flower or so she tells him. What's the consensus name for her? I went with Daisy since that's the flower on her head.

Also, I think you misread what was happening at the end of that scene. When Long Maya said "we have to send you back to the beginning of it all after all," she was talking to Akira/us, not the girl.

As for who that name is, it's definitely not Side Girl 15. Selebus has a pattern with the last few side girls.

1) THey're revealed prior to their first in-game appearance by Selebus, usually in a subscriber only event (Imani and Rika were teased in his awards thingy, but there was a pre-introduction reveal for Niki, too)
2) They then appear in a number of scenes before getting a character page
3) They finally get their own events and a character page.

Rika hasn't gotten scenes/character page yet, so it'll be a while before we see SC15 in game.

And I don't think it's Flower Girl, because, in her own words, "I'm not that kind of character"

That strange font(?) that the name is given in is also used on the title card for the "game show" in the reset, which tells me that

1) It's a new style of event (similar to Happy Events), or
2) Whoever was the power behind the "game show" is also going to be behind these scenes.

 

[ComplexOne2]

It's a spectacle, dude. Did you read his wall of text response a few weeks ago to the happenings in this thread? It was the most childish, maniacal, and narcissistic series of incoherent ramblings I've ever read on any topic. It's like it came straight out of the game - man is bringing fourth-wall breaking to the next level

This entire saga is like the Tiger King of porn games. Yeah the main character got a lot of attention at one point - some weirdos even loved him - but no one's pretending that him being a hilariously unhinged and bad person isn't one of the main selling points.

I uh, really don't think you're in any position to be poking fun at Sel for supposedly being childish, maniacal or narcissistic, frankly I don't think any of the regulars here who jerk each other off while mocking Sel are.

 

[Black Raven]

As for who that name is, it's definitely not Side Girl 15. Selebus has a pattern with the last few side girls.

Well yes but those mystery events are planned for 0.32.0 which is 3 updates away so there is some time to follow the process. Even more so if the 35th is actually [Akira's Favorite Flower] since she's already introduced.
Also Rika will get events in 0.31.0

Visuals are important, sexual content is not. SFW visuals can be substituted.

Exactly. Just imagine the exact same game with the exact same dialogues (maybe a bit less sex talk and moans and whatnot) with only the porn visuals replaced by sexy/suggestive ones. The same events would occur the sex ones would just not be showed as explicitly. And the story would still work.

(the game would probably be considerably less popular though and make less money and Selebus needs a lot of money in order to buy Japan or something)

 

[DrFree]

Exactly. Just imagine the exact same game with the exact same dialogues (maybe a bit less sex talk and moans and whatnot) with only the porn visuals replaced by sexy/suggestive ones. The same events would occur the sex ones would just not be showed as explicitly. And the story would still work

I'm gonna pull out the "nail to the wall" card again.

 

[DrFree]

If you go to a buffet at all, any food is unnecessary, but the point is the ability to just get what you want. That is basically what Sel did here to a degree, he gave an adult VN with the option of porn on the side, a buffet that serves both porn and non-porn adult content.

Tfw you go to a buffet and get served specific dishes, and THEN are told "now you can eat even more from our available selection of food!"

 

[dicky288]

my game keep forced close after update,any hint whaat happens?

Same here

 

[vehemental]

I uh, really don't think you're in any position to be poking fun at Sel for supposedly being childish, maniacal or narcissistic, frankly I don't think any of the regulars here who jerk each other off while mocking Sel are.

Characterizing a group of people agreeing, discussing, and laughing at each other's comments as "jerking each other off while mocking someone" when it involves a piece of "literature" as bizarre as this one that's headed by such a confrontational (and mockable) developer is really sad for you, man. Just like the other commenter, for the most part you're confusing boredom with emotional investment, even with posts as long as this one.

I'll give you two other examples of similar fandoms: Kingkiller Chronicle, whose fans talk about how the author seems more interested in doing podcasts and DnD shows than writing, and how he stiffed them out of publicly releasing a chapter of the next book that he promised as a charity goal. Or A Song of Ice and Fire fans who talk about how GRRM took time away for Elden Ring and everything else - they gave him so much shit for posting about watching the Super Bowl one time "instead of writing" that other authors stood up for him.

In those cases, people are mad about having to wait a few years to drop $10 on another book - they're not people who've paid them $5+/month for any period of time. I don't think everyone is entitled to an opinion on every topic, but I paid $70 to have one about this game, and you can't go a single page in this thread without hitting another former supporter. So if you think this community is toxic relative to virtually any other fandom, and you refuse to characterize the Discord with the same words when they mock us and "jerk each other off" with an even better reaction culture, you're being completely unreasonable, especially considering the dev in question has directly attacked the staff, the membership, and this website itself on more than one occasion now for ridiculously overblown reasons and has plans to continue.

But no, you've decided that we're all the bad guys because as a group, of course we naturally adopt the views of the most extreme members, and we all talk about literally wanting to kick him off Subscribestar and effectively end development of the game. And I suppose that posts like this one with virtually nonexistent emotional undertones are just as "childish, maniacal, and narcissistic" to you as the barely coherent ramblings he's posted.

And yeah, I responded to a sentence with an essay. It's fun, and since you made it this far, maybe it has value after all

 

[ocworld]

If you're taking that quote out of where I think you are, the purpose was directly stated in some cases to be spite.

despite that
if you look at his profile he acts like that everywhere, and before he became a little infamous person he posted just because in other threads, and "spite" sounds more like an excuse for what he's doing

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Ok something I’ve been wanting to ask

Does anyone here have a mind blowing interpretation about the upside down house and the girls inside that eat gray food?

Maybe it’s just some material purely to make you feel uneasy and thus isn’t insinuating anything, but it pops up again time after time and it really stirs my curiosity.

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

Saw this on Discord and don't know how to screen capture with my PC, I'm Dumb! I know, so I Copy/Paste it, glad it came out the same as it is on there...

Lessons in Love 0.32.0:

Total Events: 0/19 Complete

Main Events: 0/2 Complete
Io Events: 0/4 Complete
Yasu Events: 0/4 Complete
Haruka Events: 0/3 Complete
Maki Events: 0/3 CompleteC

É̶͒v̴̔͌e̴̔͆n̴̍̀ẗ̵́̇s̵̽̓:̶̊͂ 0/3 Complete <- Who is This?

Animations: 0/2 Complete
Character Profile: 0/1 Complete
Programming: 0/19 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/19 Complete

Estimated Release Date: 7/1/23

'Windows shift s' my friend. best way to screen cap because you get to decide exactly what on screen to copy

Characterizing a group of people agreeing, discussing, and laughing at each other's comments as "jerking each other off while mocking someone" when it involves a piece of "literature" as bizarre as this one that's headed by such a confrontational (and mockable) developer is really sad for you, man. Just like the other commenter, for the most part you're confusing boredom with emotional investment, even with posts as long as this one.

I'll give you two other examples of similar fandoms: Kingkiller Chronicle, whose fans talk about how the author seems more interested in doing podcasts and DnD shows than writing, and how he stiffed them out of publicly releasing a chapter of the next book that he promised as a charity goal. Or A Song of Ice and Fire fans who talk about how GRRM took time away for Elden Ring and everything else - they gave him so much shit for posting about watching the Super Bowl one time "instead of writing" that other authors stood up for him.

In those cases, people are mad about having to wait a few years to drop $10 on another book - they're not people who've paid them $5+/month for any period of time. I don't think everyone is entitled to an opinion on every topic, but I paid $70 to have one about this game, and you can't go a single page in this thread without hitting another former supporter. So if you think this community is toxic relative to virtually any other fandom, and you refuse to characterize the Discord with the same words when they mock us and "jerk each other off" with an even better reaction culture, you're being completely unreasonable, especially considering the dev in question has directly attacked the staff, the membership, and this website itself on more than one occasion now for ridiculously overblown reasons and has plans to continue.

But no, you've decided that we're all the bad guys because as a group, of course we naturally adopt the views of the most extreme members, and we all talk about literally wanting to kick him off Subscribestar and effectively end development of the game. And I suppose that posts like this one with virtually nonexistent emotional undertones are just as "childish, maniacal, and narcissistic" to you as the barely coherent ramblings he's posted.

And yeah, I responded to a sentence with an essay. It's fun, and since you made it this far, maybe it has value after all

most of the time we only ever talk about good ol' selly when
1) the discord members stop by trying to fellate him in this thread
2) when the discord members stop by to try and troll on their own whims or on direct orders
3) when a newbie stops by and asks WTF is wrong wih sel
4)Sel trys a direct attack against this place
other than that we mainly ignore it and talk about the game itself. as for 'planning attacks'
I think I have only seen 1 person outright say something like that, almost everyone else is guessing on whats going to happen when he finally pisses off the wrong person/people and wishing he would just act normal for once.

Its so contradictory to claim we want to fuck him over and to say we are more heavily invested in the game than the people who wasted $1000's on a game made from pirated software. I honestly think the people that have paid are so heavily invested in this at this point that they have no choice but defend anything Sel does or its a giant drop in the bucket for them. he could shoot somebody and wouldn't lose these die hards. it's so bad they dont seem to realize the contradictory nature of what they are saying... I honestly wonder if its just a chat box AI talking sometimes because they show the same tendency towards holes in logic.

I wonder if this is all intentional on Sel's part. he knows what he is doing and wants someone to ruin it for him just so he can 'take the money and run' and have an available scapegoat to point fingers at. but then i remember the patreon fiasco which would have been the perfect time to do just that. I am left with the only conclusion that Sel might have borderline high functioning autism.

 

[redpenguin101]

Why were several pages nuked? Was it because of the discussion of nuking Sels monetization? Or was there some super mega ultra sperg wars going on?

 

[Deleted member 2223621]

Why were several pages nuked? Was it because of the discussion of nuking Sels monetization? Or was there some super mega ultra sperg wars going on?

well some of that happens but also images get removed from posts from time to time shortening the threads