Lewd Game Design: Few In-depth Characters vs Many Simple Characters

[BigWamanHunter]

I actually somewhat agree with the person you're quoting (though not quite as simple as he's putting it).

Almost all the popular games on this forum aren't good games, and if not for the porn aspect they wouldn't really be played. I'm looking at the most viewed threads and popular games forum.

Dating my daughter is about you grooming your daughter for sex
Both Big Brother and Man of the House are about you manipulating/harassing your family into having sex with you (with MotH having added a rival for the twist.
My new life is hilariously poorly translated, and even then has flat game mechanics
Son of a Bitch is also hilariously poorly translated, and even if it was the plot for all the characters would be "sexually harass female until she loves you."

I'm not saying that all lewd games are like this, but the majority are. But that can be okay, because you still spend a ton of time playing them.

I for example just finished a bender on Son of a Bitch, where I spent most of the time reading guides and monkeying with the cheat menu to reach scenes. It might as well as been a complicated MP4 viewer because I hadn't a clue what was going on with characters. But that doesn't matter, because I've spent like 7 hours in the past week on it. That's more than I can say for half my steam library.

Well among the popular section games i have only enjoyed milfy city so far..... Most of them grindfests and god knows whats made them so popular......

I think u misinterpreted by post..... By big hits i meant games like Acting Lessons and Depraved Awakening which are destined to be future classics or the rising stars like Deluca or A wife and mother.
Edit: I am sure games like man of the house woudnt be that big of a hit if they were to release now.

I have never played son of a bitch or games similar to it because i hate gameplay in fap material. I see u are looking to make a porn game with real life girls images....well i dont have any experience with them so i cant give any ideas about that....but regarding your thread question about quality vs quantity................... 3 main girls with a very well developed plot is optimal for me in male mc............ In female mc i go full slut so i prefer retard in lechertown types

I can partially agree with the last sentence of the person i quoted.... These are not serious games for me...... More like interactive fapping material for my brain which is desensitized to the shit in pornhub..... But emotions and lore are a huge plus for me.... Some ppl like gameplay here

 

[DarthSeduction]

Of course we can create very realistic, deep one, however it needs probably 10 times of dialogue screens to get f*ck done. Which non of us want to afford plus I'm not so sure any body like to play this kind of game.

Plus in real life we got 2 consequences get married or get shot (at least in my country).

You're conflating deep with realism, that's not what anyone is suggesting. Having grown up myself, a mormon, one of the stricter christian ideologies, I definitely found myself empathizing with Mia. I recognize that Summertime Saga was over the top, that it was intentionally campy, but that didn't stop Dark Cookie from exploring the theme and character. There was more to it than just a setup for sex.

My favorite game is about a girl who is part demon, part elf-like fae, part angel-like fae, who, because of her demon side, has uncontrollable lust. Nothing about this is realistic. What creates depth is the interactions she has with the world around her, the story as it develops around her, revealing her destiny, and the dark fate the worlds will face if she can't stop it. This doesn't take away from the sex. In this game with incredible world building, fantastic characters, well written dialogue, and an intriguing fantastical plot, I guarantee there is just as much if not more sexual content than there is in Summertime Saga.

Because of they are good games, they have good mechanics for revarding player ?

Or

Because of they have stellar graphics, sounds environments ?

Or

Because of good stories which can earn a Nobel prize or can enter best selling list ?

Or

Simple they put players position of able to f*ck nearly every possible one in the game without any consequences.

Depraved Awakening puts you in the position of being able to fuck nearly everyone possible in the game, there are some possible consequences in the game, but that isn't to say that the game discourages you from doing things. It has a good story, not something that will win a nobel prize for writing, but its an intriguing dark mystery. It has pretty damned good art and environments. And it's a sound, mechanically speaking game. It's also in my top 5.

My own game, Seraphim Academy, literally starts with a full fledged sex scene. I am currently working on finishing the second release which has it's own graphic sexual content. Sarah, Alison, Milla, Brooke, Erin, Elizabeth, Karina, Serana, and Basil all have planned optional sexual content. But the game centers around character depth and development, you will have sex with each character, most more than once, and the game will be there to keep you interested in doing so.

For some reason you seem to think you can't have sex with a cast of characters and have depth. For some reason you think depth and realism are somehow linked. Neither of these things are true. The characters in a parody, like Deadpool, have depth, so being an over the top, campy game, like Summertime Saga, doesn't mean that your characters can't be developed. I'm not saying Dark Cookie is the best at it, in fact, in a previous thread I put him in the same category as Faerin, of Man of the House, because in spite of his interesting world, he doesn't take it as far as he could. Milfy City on the other hand, has already started the sexual content with 7 of its characters, each with their own motivations and stories. They're over the top, sure, but they are interesting because they're written well. I would play Milfy City 65 times over before I'd play Big Brother, or SuperPowered, or Man of the House again.

What you want, the sex, the lack of consequences, etc, these things don't preclude character depth. The games you and others have mentioned, Summertime Saga, Man of the House, other games in the Popular Games category currently, aren't popular and well received because they have a large cast of characters who you can fuck, they're popular and well received because they all came out when the industry was more fledgling and have more word of mouth, more people have played them, more people have had the opportunity to play them. But then, once you really start to get into the games this industry has to offer, you are given the opportunity to play the other games out there, and you start to realize how weak those early, more popular games were.

Again, Babysitter is making 10k a month right now. That's a huge salary even in America, so I don't wanna hear that a game can't have depth and story and be popular.

 

[Brig]

In my humble opinion: A smaller cast is better because it allows for more interesting characters and situations.
It allows the player to be surprised when they discover that a certain girl has certain interests and it makes it far more worthwhile to spend the time to uncover more about them.

 

[groove888]

Will prefer medium sized cast over too small but will play anything if the writer as some talent. You can have a huge cast and have them all have a unique flavor, be interesting and have small character development.
To me character depth doesn't matter as much as having a interesting character. Some character can be super shallow and yet be entertaining and interesting. It becomes a problem when every character is like that imo.

 

[anne O'nymous]

No body give damn about character deep.

There's a joke to make here, but I'll stay serious and paraphrase @HopesGaming : *Nobody* is a big statement.
If you read other meta threads regarding "content Vs Story", you'll see that there's a lot of people here who come for the story.

Most earned creators have sh*t load of chars.

Mr.Dot, 9th in number of patrons, three main characters for Dating My daughter, not really more for Melody.
LewdLab, 10th in number of patrons, four main characters, six counting the friend and the shadow, for Dreams of Desire.
A "shit load" start low for you.

Our job is making fantasies visual.

That can not be done if the characters have no depth ; well, except for those who fantasy about fucking a sex doll. When you remove the characters' depth, you do not make fantasies material but fap material. And that is not the same thing.
Fap material is just a visual/auditory help and can be so many things. Ask people who were teenagers before the internet era ; even a small photo of Ursula Andress in a TV mag, to illustrate the fact that whatever channel will diffuse "Doctor No", can be fap material. At the opposite, a fantasy is cerebral, it have a reason and need a support. You can trigger someone's fantasy without showing an inch of flesh and without writing a single sexually charged word. In fact, both the flesh and sexually charged words are just a complement of the fantasy ; they complete the scenario you put in the player's mind, and which derivate to his own fantasy, they don't replace it.
To keep a recurrent topic, if my fantasy were to bang my mother (Hi, Dr Freud) it's not by calling the older female character "mom" and calling the MC "son", that you'll achieve to trigger it. She have to act as a mother, and it doesn't meant that she need to clean the house and make the diner. It mean that she must worry for her son, feel concerned by his attitude. She must search in her own behavior and past what's wrong, where and when she failed. Searching also why she feel attracted by him, where and when it started. And all this must reflect in both her actions and saying, which can not be done if your character's personality is as thin as cigarette paper. You need to give it some relief, and so go depth on it.

 

[kimoo]

i played Dating my daughter with the daughter route only (so any other character just passed it)
one character with deep story is always better than many of them with linear story for each of them

personally i always choose one character to take (one route)
why force me to play the daughter and mother and aunt route while i can choose what i want

so until now the only games which managed to make what i want (small cast with deep story)
-my girl friend amnesia
- hack's talk
-dating my daughter

 

[kimoo]

We are here for porn not the plot.

AND

Quantity has a quality all its own

-- Joseph Stalin

go to porn sites your place isn't here
we are here for the story see the votes
and consider it before commenting again

 

[caLTD]

go to porn sites your place isn't here
we are here for the story see the votes
and consider it before commenting again

400 of 38 was bother the vote and you say what ?

 

[caLTD]

First of all I'm talking here as Game Developer not consumer. I'm after full 3D Game based on Unity with using Manuel Bastioni Lab characters.

Well, before the jumping the game design, I do some research about porn, porn tropes, how to make porn, how to make game etc. Also I'm fond of porn comics probably almost 20 years and I'm after kind of enhanced 80's porn magazines with narrative and look like same era porn flick's for example Kay Parker's taboo.

Maybe I'm overstate the using *Nobody and it was probably related to my English. Our so important topic was only 400 viewers. If you consider how big F95Zone. *Nobody is almost exact definition and we are all in computer programming business so make it more specific and make it Almost Everyone.

However everyone who opposes me almost not see my "Good enough for a porn game" and "good excuses for to f*ck every one" lines.

Also I download and play "Babysitter" and "Depraved Awakening", if those are consider good and deep I'm barking wrong tree.

In Babysitter there is long lines of dialogue which uses same poses again and again which makes game is boring. The other one was constantly flashback or something to show the SCENES which I'm quickly disconnect from game.

And OK I got it, you want to tell a established, solid, strong story to your viewer (or player) and damn its long, so you have to use a cinematic language to tell your story to player if you not boring the player. That means you need lots of scenes called SHOTS. And using lots of shots means lots of rendering time which you did not have. and I did not count scene setup, which much easier in DAZ.

Anyway these are my humble toughs, I'm choosing short and strong words for cover my English shortage and I'm not here for offend anyone.

Best Regards.

 

[HopesGaming]

First of all I'm talking here as Game Developer not consumer. I'm after full 3D Game based on Unity with using Manuel Bastioni Lab characters.

Well, before the jumping the game design, I do some research about porn, porn tropes, how to make porn, how to make game etc. Also I'm fond of porn comics probably almost 20 years and I'm after kind of enhanced 80's porn magazines with narrative and look like same era porn flick's for example Kay Parker's taboo.

Maybe I'm overstate the using *Nobody and it was probably related to my English. Our so important topic was only 400 viewers. If you consider how big F95Zone. *Nobody is almost exact definition and we are all in computer programming business so make it more specific and make it Almost Everyone.

However everyone who opposes me almost not see my "Good enough for a porn game" and "good excuses for to f*ck every one" lines.

Also I download and play "Babysitter" and "Depraved Awakening", if those are consider good and deep I'm barking wrong tree.

In Babysitter there is long lines of dialogue which uses same poses again and again which makes game is boring. The other one was constantly flashback or something to show the SCENES which I'm quickly disconnect from game.

And OK I got it, you want to tell a established, solid, strong story to your viewer (or player) and damn its long, so you have to use a cinematic language to tell your story to player if you not boring the player. That means you need lots of scenes called SHOTS. And using lots of shots means lots of rendering time which you did not have. and I did not count scene setup, which much easier in DAZ.

Anyway these are my humble toughs, I'm choosing short and strong words for cover my English shortage and I'm not here for offend anyone.

Best Regards.

The problem is that you are saying all these things like they are *facts*.
But there is a reason for why games like depraved awakening and other story games gain the following and love that they do.

You need to learn to separate your own *issues* with what are real *issues*.
No one can say you wrong for having the opinions you do. But you are wrong to force upon other people those ideals.
Saying everyone is wrong for liking something you do not, is not popular.

Reminds me of a discussion with someone I had, told my game was stupid and idiotic simply because he had some other versions of how he wanted the game's story to be and how the characters should behave. Completely ignoring the majority who liked it.

Funny enough, it's always other newcomer developers that say stuff like that. And it's bound by some arrogance that in which they think their way of doing it will be better. They know how a true story is told, they know how a true cinematic *shot* is needed to be. They know a way of doing it that is harder and better. The others use ineffective engines yet are still bad. etc etc.

Now, this is NOT an attack on you. I do HOPE your game will prove everything you are saying. But you have nothing to show for it yet. And I do advice you to be a bit more humble.
Wish you the best.

 

[thecardinal]

@caLTD I look forward to playing your amazing game and even more to it's inevitable abandonment once it doesn't get the 'recognition it deserves.'

 

[kimoo]

400 of 38 was bother the vote and you say what ?

personally if the game all about porn and sex i dont play it

and the 5 patreons i support (all of them making good story line)
one of them is mr dots .... see dating my daughter and compare it with HaremVilla
if you didn't find that harem villa is just porn x porn x porn no story then you are wrong

 

[BigWamanHunter]

@carnalcardinal No need to be that harsh.

@caLTD If you are making your game according to your own preferences and fetishes.....treating it like a passion project.... I wish u luck.

But if your main purpose is to make money and shit..... I'd recommend having an open minded approach.... Cuz i sure cant understand someone who did not enjoy depraved awakening cuz of "flashbacks"?

 

[caLTD]

Thanks for comments.

Today I download The Architetch Hack'n stalk 3. From my perspective he was perfect example what I'm saying.

I believe he was best game developer here. He as own unique style, good programming and very deep story (for a porn game), minigames etc.

And look his results. I believe this was because of the lack of porn in his games.

I hope he will score much better in this version.

 

[Volta]

There is a balance to be found, you won't find a correct answer just an answer that works for you. I personally like a large cast in terms of NPC's however the core group needs to be small to tell a compelling story, the question is do you feel the need for content variety or story telling more?

Tailor this to your game type, sandboxes with a small cast will become boring, VN's with a big cast have a tough time giving character to each person.

in a large cast game it is easy for the MC to become bland so that the NPC's personality can come through in the limited time they have, this personally annoys me, however if you have NPC's meet each other and meaningfully interact then you can define them without the MC having to take a back seat.

in a small cast game the problem is keeping the interest in a character throughout the game, you need be able make the characters and the scenes they have engaging, this can be tough, takes time and writing skill.

For me the sweet spot would be taking a small core group and having them interact with a moderate amount of NPC's, this way you can tell the story of a group, say a group of friends on vacation, a family moving to a new town, a team of undercover police, anything you want to write really totalling perhaps 3 to 5 people. Have the story centre on them, then introduce NPC's as desired, say 7-15 others depending on how deep you want to go on each. This gives you options enough to put a variety of content in while still maintaining that core story telling group.

 

[FranceToast]

Mr.Dot, 9th in number of patrons, three main characters for Dating My daughter, not really more for Melody.
LewdLab, 10th in number of patrons, four main characters, six counting the friend and the shadow, for Dreams of Desire.
A "shit load" start low for you.

Nice listing of ranked Adult Patreons

You must be registered to see the links

Palmer at number 2 is another one for your list

 

[FranceToast]

I'm all for a few well defined characters with in-depth and varied paths and possible interactions, but I always assumed that part of the demands of Patreon/episodic story telling would include some superficial limited depth interactions with NPCs to keep the interest going (which I can totally accept as just part of the realities of telling long form episodic stories that include sex as part of the appeal)

 

[Amedore]

Good games are the ones with characters people can bond with. And for that, people need to know them, so, "intricate interactions" it is. For just simple interactions of lewd without explanation or justification, there are already a hundred of billions of real-life porn movies.

PD. It doesn´t mean that all games with "intrincate interactions" are good. Those interactions must be interesting and well written, not just filling material. And that's the tricky part. It's way easier to make good images and animations than to write good scripts, since you can learn how to use DAZ, Poser, etc. but good ideas for a script is something that you have, or not.

 

[caLTD]

@

You must be registered to see the links

Here screen shots from my game. It still need lots of work.
I'm just trying to finish first part. First part is VN style, no choices just click click click.

I'm still planning mechanics of the game. Which covers how to convince some one in meaning full way (at least for a porn game) to f*ck.

Humanoids from Manuel Bastioni Lab (Blender), however they had no genitals, so I fit pussy and dick.

Also I find all of those clothes, hair, accessories and fit it to humanoid mesh with rig.
And of course there is no such thing free poses for Unity. (after all I need lots of poses not mechanims). So I have to have pose in unity (which was most hardest part the entire process).

Of course the other props (home, chair, door etc everything you see) are coming from various sources, however they are not ready to use, I have to have process in blender.

And clothes still a problem, they wont fit good. I found good software to fit clothes however my damn 2 core amd cpu cannot handle that thing (cloth simulation very cpu heavy process)

And if I find way to handle Unity bugs, I have to have setup ligth and post processing for camera

I'm working on this thing last 6 months on my seperate time. I learn everything from 0 and I'm come from web developer experience.

All I need just 300 patreon or 1.5k$.

 

[Amedore]

We are here for porn not the plot.

AND

Quantity has a quality all its own

-- Joseph Stalin

Was the guy talking about porn games, or people killed?