VN Ren'Py Light of My Life [Ch. 8 v0.8.1] [Naughty Road]

[naughtyroad]

Nope.

Very few devs give out dates anymore. So many people whine when dates are missed we get vague graphs and told it will be ready when it's ready.

Heh, yeah. Tbh, I never gave out release dates ever until I knew I could make them, even when there was no one interested yet. That s##t always slips and even if I said that maybe there was a slight chance that it could be on X, people will still be all over you for having promised they'd have it on X.

Besides, while some might argue it's a great way to set a goal and force yourself to work towards it and limit yourself to what fits in that frame, I think that's great if you're on a budget, iterating on creating a consumer app, honing in on the best modifications for implementing some business software, or trying to hit that marketing window on budget for some electronic entertainment, but it's a terrible practice for creative writing, as you're pressuring yourself to cut out good stuff and go with something shitty that fits, just to hit that arbitrary date that serves little other purpose in my particular case.
There's plenty of other ways to make sure you stay on task and work towards finishing something than that. Plotting out the work and reporting about progress for instance.

 

[Terminator_26F]

Heh, yeah. Tbh, I never gave out release dates ever until I knew I could make them, even when there was no one interested yet. That s##t always slips and even if I said that maybe there was a slight chance that it could be on X, people will still be all over you for having promised they'd have it on X.

Besides, while some might argue it's a great way to set a goal and force yourself to work towards it and limit yourself to what fits in that frame, I think that's great if you're on a budget, iterating on creating a consumer app, honing in on the best modifications for implementing some business software, or trying to hit that marketing window on budget for some electronic entertainment, but it's a terrible practice for creative writing, as you're pressuring yourself to cut out good stuff and go with something shitty that fits, just to hit that arbitrary date that serves little other purpose in my particular case.
There's plenty of other ways to make sure you stay on task and work towards finishing something than that. Plotting out the work and reporting about progress for instance.

NR, buddy, stop trying to convince die-hards that the artistic creation of great VNs can be the subject of Soviet planning and give rise to repeated complaints if the five-year goal is not met. We are not in North Korea with internment camps for DEVs that do not meet the prescribed deadlines. We, the true lovers of good stories served by excellent characters evolving in superb animations are not on fire and we prefer to wait until the roast is well done rather than to eat the hastily cooked carrion ... ( this is the opinion of a Frenchman who loves good food). Take the time you need and send those who are not happy with your job to shit!

 

[naughtyroad]

NR, buddy, stop trying to convince die-hards that the artistic creation of great VNs can be the subject of Soviet planning and give rise to repeated complaints if the five-year goal is not met. (...)

Cheers, and not to worry. In this case, I picked Avaron1974's post to reply to to make a generic statement about my feelings towards deadlines; I've known her to be utterly reasonable (and utterly short-tempered too ) and I'm quite sure no slight was meant.

 

[polycentric]

terrible practice for creative writing

I think that part of the reason for the tension between the "uninitiated" (the people that complain about the girls, complain about the release cadence and just complain in general) and those that "get it" (again, you know who you are) is that there are a lot of developers that have transactional relationships with supporters. There are a lot of projects referenced on F95 where the developers solicit creative input from, and commit to specific content by specific dates to, financial supporters and that creates a clear quid quo pro relationship.

I think this is part of the reason why people that don't bother to read the thread at all, or don't give a fuck even if they do, expect the same "how high do you want me to jump" behavior from Naughty and get pissy when they don't get what they want. I can't speak for their state of mind, but I can't imagine dropping into a thread here without spending a couple of minutes familiarizing myself with the project and the offer. I look for games/VNs like LoML and tend to avoid the "vote for the next futa side character" projects - it takes the fun out for me, because I want developers to tell an interesting story well and I want to discover the story as I read, which disappears when you know in advance that a space squid is going to fuck a goat with 33 dildos because you voted for it. I would go to the bookstore and buy a kid's "choose your own adventure" if that's the experience I want...

Look...I get that a lot of people are just here for "teh b00bs" but truly creative projects are kind of rare and I wish that people would respect that and go back to begging someone like Faerin and Braindrop for shit, where that actually works.

 

[Pyromancy]

Tagging onto Poly's post. Think about your favorite authors and look at how long it takes for each novel to come out. Creative work is a brutal process that takes time. VR novels have this issue as well.

Some developers will give you the fap material in rapid fire if that's what your after, but other's are looking to give you a full story where you care about the characters and the outcomes of their struggles, their loves, and their accomplishments. These stories require a lot of time and care.

F95 is a great place to find whatever your are looking for, so please offer support for all the devs here if you have the heart. Until you stand in their shoes you do not realize how hard it is to do what they do.

 

[Avaron1974]

Cheers, and not to worry. In this case, I picked Avaron1974's post to reply to to make a generic statement about my feelings towards deadlines; I've known her to be utterly reasonable (and utterly short-tempered too ) and I'm quite sure no slight was meant.

This.

I've always backed devs when it comes to release times. In fact i've told newer devs to never give a release date for the reason I mentioned, people whining.

I've seen it far too many times. A dev thinks they can have game ready for X date but life gives zero fucks about peoples plans and likes to screw with us so something happens and they are off by a day or two.

The issue is, in that day or two the thread fills up with people whining and complaining and cries of milking. It happens every . single . time.

You can't deadline art, it's impossible. Unless everything is finished and you are just polishing then anything can happen.

The best thing about creating stories is watching your own characters grow. I've seen enough from writers I talk to that when they get started sometimes it can go in a different direction than what they planned and a simple scene grows to something much bigger.

I've always been a fan of the "it will be ready when it's ready". That's all they need to know really.

 

[LarryK]

The best thing about creating stories is watching your own characters grow. I've seen enough from writers I talk to that when they get started sometimes it can go in a different direction than what they planned and a simple scene grows to something much bigger.

I love when some of the world's best writers explain they are just documenting as they observe their characters growing.

 

[naughtyroad]

(...) This is why i stick to japanese games, at least most if not of all of the them are released in a completed state, in contrast with Patreon ones which are the inverse and even some of those completed games are just rushed endings or they're outright axed (...)

Imma just ignore the backhanded accusation of milking there, and address the one point in your argument worth addressing, which is that as far as I can tell, these Japanese games that come completed do so because they're produced by actual studios operating on a business model of securing funding from investors and publishers, hiring a team to produce that game on budget. Their business model is a traditional one: invest to produce a completed product, then sell units to recup and hopefully make a good profit on that investment

Patron backed games, OTOH, are passion projects, in spite of your claim otherwise. They're usually single developers, sometimes small teams, and they are not run as studios, and do not have their financial means. Without the patron model, these games simply wouldn't get made at all.

All of which does nothing to invalidate your opinion, it's fine to feel that way, let me stress that. It just seems to me that your lack of understanding of the business models involved leads you to compare apples to oranges.

 

[UncleFredo]

Patron backed games, OTOH, are passion projects, in spite of your claim otherwise. They're usually single developers, sometimes small teams, and they are not run as studios, and do not have their financial means. Without the patron model, these games simply wouldn't get made at all.

It is certainly true your's is a project of passion and it shows in your work which I thank you for and find excellent. It's also true for many other developers. However, we all know that it is not true in every case, some of which are among the most visible on this site.

It's indisputable that many, if not most, of the games here could not exist without ongoing support either using the Patreon model or some type of crowdsourcing.

IMHO it's critically important for every one to remember that patrons are NOT buying a game. The support they provide to a developer is so they can pursue whatever they choose. It may well go to a game's direct development, it could equally go to the exploring new tools, or improving skills, or to buy rounds at the pub. Developers are not accountable to patrons. Anyone who has issues with that is well advised not to contribute until the game they fancy is completed.

 

[afedvfe]

People hate on the Patreon/patron business model but crowdfunding has existed since forever (in a different format maybe, but the concept has been the same). Although there have been people who abused/abuse the model, one has to admit that it has been also the source of jewels like this game and others as well

 

[mordred93]

<snip>


... A dev thinks they can have game ready for X date but life gives zero fucks about peoples plans and likes to screw with us so something happens and they are off by a day or two.

<snip>

I am not disagreeing with Avaron .. as I have been a staunch supporter of devs getting time to get shit done since day one. I am laughing at the dichotomy of this (proper) usage of slang. Wouldn't life give more than 1 fuck if it are screwing with us?

Sorry - had to be said - running back to my palm trees and garden to mow the yard.

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

Every time I see someone ask when the update is coming out, I'm reminded of a quote an ancient wise man once said,
"Asking developer of nudie game when update arrive is like asking man when bowel movement arrive. It comes when it comes." --Confu-shits

Words we can all live by

 

[Hardcore1234]

Every time I see someone ask when the update is coming out, I'm reminded of a quote an ancient wise man once said,
"Asking developer of nudie game when update arrive is like asking man when bowel movement arrive. It comes when it comes." --Confu-shits

Words we can all live by

The only thing I got from you is that your country was built by butt lickers.

 

[polycentric]

IMHO it's critically important for every one to remember that patrons are NOT buying a game. The support they provide to a developer is so they can pursue whatever they choose. It may well go to a game's direct development, it could equally go to the exploring new tools, or improving skills, or to buy rounds at the pub. Developers are not accountable to patrons. Anyone who has issues with that is well advised not to contribute until the game they fancy is completed.

So. Much. This.

I donate to Naughty, and others, as a non-specific way of saying "thanks" and, in some cases, to help move projects forward. Naughty owes me nothing, including content or release timing information, and I'm fine with that in general and with Naughty specifically because he's totally up-front about LoML development as a hobby, a passion-project and not Half-Life III.

Sure, I want everything NOW but I've waited longer (more than twenty years in some cases) for less satisfying literature, film and game experiences. Why give Naughty shit about doing what he said he was going to do and then conveniently forget the hundreds of games and movies that were delayed for years, projects that investors threw millions at?

Most of the "not enough releases" comments about Naughty and LoML are akin to living next door to a clockmaker that makes two clocks a year out of a love of clockmaking and criticizing him for not making more clocks when you're not even in the market for clocks. It's totally nuts...

 

[UncleFredo]

Every time I see someone ask when the update is coming out, I'm reminded of a quote an ancient wise man once said,
"Asking developer of nudie game when update arrive is like asking man when bowel movement arrive. It comes when it comes." --Confu-shits

Words we can all live by

Bad visual image man. Bad...

 

[NotTheReal16]

Next Update when? one of the best games on this site

 

[Exarioch]

Next Update when? one of the best games on this site

You will have a better luck with a medium then asking here :/

 

[Darkmessiah30]

god damn i just started playing this game liking it so far but damn Denise's ass is made for grabbing for dear life either from behind of if she's the one doing the riding slap that ass once and it's jiggling for a week.

 

[fea876]

2,5 years and we have handjob and unconscious handjob. Yikes. Update once a year ? Yikes. Someone is supporting this ? YIKES.

You should be accurate, we have sofa cuddling, fruits eating guide and bear licking kink too. I will not share my preference order but... yeah, sometime it's better to keep it shut...

 

[xskwerl]

Ready the trebuchets!