He is right though.That is easily fixed. (1.) Don't play the VN or (2.) Make your own VN. See? Easy. Now you don't need to come on here and spew your hate!
- Thread starter naughtyroad
- Start date
Criticism isn't hate. I love this story and the girls as much as anyone, but can you honestly deny that the side women are more than a distraction? Do you follow this VN to see them develop, or because the daughters have totally captured your interest? Yeah, maybe he could have stated his point more diplomatically, but he does have a defensible point. It's at least worthy of consideration and perhaps discussion. After all isn't that why we're here, other that to look into the history of siege engines?That is easily fixed. (1.) Don't play the VN or (2.) Make your own VN. See? Easy. Now you don't need to come on here and spew your hate!
Dolphin3000
Well-Known Member
- May 9, 2017
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Usually I agree with that: More time and resources spent on side characters less time and resources spent on what really matters. But I'm very happy with the amount of content involving the main female characters we have in every update. So it hasn't been an issue with this game, since we're used with the long wait between updates.
charlieluc
Newbie
- Feb 11, 2020
- 61
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I enjoy the side characters and the variety they bring. Keep up the great work!
Dolphin3000
Well-Known Member
- May 9, 2017
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Side characters are essential to pacing (even more so given the episodal development cycle of 99% of Indie AVNs): they allow the developer to explore interactions they cannot with the main love interests, provide comic and other relief, and pick up roles as support actors in the story line.
They are anything but a waste of content from that perspective. That is, if you're actually interested in the content, and not just skipping between lewds. Which isn't bad, I mean everyone gets to play as they want, but it doesn't make sense dismiss their value if you're skipping the content they add value to.
However, throwing side characters in to just pad content and string players along for another seasons, or service supporters demanding inclusion of a certain fetish without them having a function in the story such as it is, is a waste of content, I'll agree.
Or considering the alternative for LomL. Not having them would mean the trolls dropping by screaming "blue balls, theirs no sexxx in this gaem!" would have a point. So, to fix that, you'd have to bang the wards in episode one, two tops, and that would make it like watching bad porn...
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The thing is that they never look nowhere near as good as the main characters. After a while the daughters get very attractive, and that just makes scenes without them feel like a waste of time. And specifically for incest games: Every non incestuous relationship seems dull and vanilla by comparison(which is not a problem for some I guess) . The same goes for corruption games as well.
BTW: Do you really think that the people bitching about the lack of sex scenes care about the coworkers? I seriously doubt it. The skip unread text option exists for a reason.
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Well, that is an interesting point, but the alternative would be to have the MC be intimate with a tenant (ward), roommate or landlady filling the side-part role right off the bat, which I feel kinda erodes the thrill of the illicitness of getting involved with someone with whom the MC has a non-vanilla relationships.
The contrast of having both vanilla and the other flavor adds to the latter, not subtracts from the first, I personally feel.
But this definitely has something to do with the way people zoom in on certain fetishes to the point it's hard to enjoy anything not related to it, and I wonder if there's some sort of peak-moment in the development of a AVN perv where they're just debased enough to enjoy the heck out of whatever tickles their fancy before it becomes this all-consuming must-have-or-pass thingie. Not judging, mind, just observing.
Some people(like me) are only here for the amazing incestual or corruption based relationships only games can provide. And those are extremely hard to get right. You have done a great job so far with the former.
As much as I hate to admit it the second most popular game on here is vanilla so there is an audience for that as well. But this is the internet so I have to be selfish, right?
BTW: Patreon can't hear you. I don't know why you call them wards on here.
Dragon59
Conversation Conqueror
- Apr 24, 2020
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Side characters serve a very important role in slow-burn, story-driven AVNs. They allow the MC to have sex to satisfy one side of the market while allowing the development with the main LIs to progress at the proper pace.
My own game (in development) will have plenty of sex scenes with established couples before we see sex scenes with new LIs. The one exception is the first sex scene--between one member of a couple and someone who is, as Thor Odinson put it, "a friend from work."
They may not be actively monitoring this thread, but if someone were to report the account to the big P, they would definitely scan the thread for evidence that the developer considers it to be an incest game. NR needs to cover his bases. This is why no developer should endorse a patch as "official."
That's why every Landlord(lady)/tenant(ward), childhood friend game needs to have an "Evil Modder," to facilitate an alternate version of the game.
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LazyName
Member
- Aug 17, 2017
- 136
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- 288
So unless a game is just a bunch loosely connected threads of dialogue chaining together sex scenes the narrative needs some kind of tension to push the story along into a cathartic point where sex is realized. To me it seems like incest is used as a short hand for "forbidden" since everyone knows you arent supposed to boink your family all of the tension kind of gets handwaved. Thats why so many incest games are so shallow and unrewarding to see through to the end because the writers dont really know how to build up actual tension. Its a shame because as someone who has a kink for incest seeing all these games which seem to cater to my tastes only superficially touch upon what makes it so appealing leaves me ultimately unsatisfied. What makes games like light of my life feel so much better than other games isnt necessarily realism (the story is fantastical) its immersion the writer took the time to lay the ground work for how the characters think, how they get along together, and why they make the decisions they do. So while my main interest is with the two main characters it makes sense that an adult would seek sexual gratification from litterally anywhere else before looking to his daughters. This is kind of a ramble but theyre my thoughts on why it doesnt feel like LoML is wasting my time while i play it.
Miðgarðsormr
Engaged Member
- Oct 1, 2017
- 2,473
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Side characters make alot of sense and claiming they do not is not only ignorant in and of itself it beats the purpose of side characters inside a story.
As i assume everyone knows the original three star war movies i take that as an example to cut out all side characters and present you a clusterfuck of a story that makes no sense.
Star wars a new hope: Darth Vader is alone in a Star Destroyer chasing a rebel ship with no one in it but princess leia, C3PO and R2-D2. Luke sits alone on a table on his planet and drives around. There are no jawas so he just finds the 2 androids.
Ben Kenobi comes to talk they drive into a ghost town to meet Han Solo and Chewbacca who have nothing to do but wait for them. Meanwhile Darth Vader destroys a Planet with the Death Star which is tricky cause he is all alone and no one operates shit in this gigantic station. The group with luke travels to the death star with no one in it but Darth Vader and just collect princess leia. Ben fights Vader and becomes one with the force. The rest travels to the rebel station where no one is and no plan is formed against the death star. So Luke decides to attack it solo. Which works cause no one operates the laser turrets on the station. Vader tries to stop luke but is shot down by Han. Death star goes kaboom and they all meet again in the rebel base to get medals of honor and congratulate each other cause no one else is there to applaud them. Credits roll.
The point of side characters is to add value and depth to a character and the motivation of said character. Without the deaths of Lukes uncle and aunt he would not be motivated to do something about it or question certain things or start to listen to what Ben Kenobi tells and teaches him. Without the cantina scenes the audience would not know that Han is a dangerous man and that Ben Kenobi is even more dangerous and what jedi mind tricks are.
Without the scenes inside the death star we would not realize how dangerous vader really is nor how the imperial moffs like tarkin have even power over him. So the empire is a force of its own that dwarfs the power of the force in comparison.
I stop here cause you got the point. Now we look at LoML and figure out what do those side characters add aside from sexual content.
1. Brooke.
She does what the wards can not do at the moment when the game starts. Listen to your problems and offer a way to escape all the stress and tension in a more direct and fun way. Be it to photocopy your junk or to taste the sweet juices of the ladycake. Also offering places for the MC's dick to rest and is in general fun to be around. Offers advice and even a job that depending on the MC choices could improve or destroy the situation with the wards at home.
Brooke is the surrogate mother or stepmom choice the MC has inside the story that would work that way if the story continues with her. She also is instantly the nemesis of Macy who hates her guts simply because she can offer things to the MC macy thinks she can not.
Denise on the other hand doesn't have a Problem with brooke or the MC and her having fun times together. If the MC is happy, Denise is happy. This also reflects the need of Denise wanting an adult women she can look up to and learn from in her life. While macy does not want any of that.
This adds tension to a otherwise boring story in which you would think macy is just a livid cunt with no joy in her life. She however is a women that is in love and deeply afraid of losing her love interest which gets quite obvious once Brooke enters the house.
2. The office ladies.
They can be your first harem or your fucking nightmare. We all know people like that on the workplace who get on your nerves simply because they can and their work is flawless which is why their words has always more value than your own. If you play your cards right you get some action while enjoying it and get some laughs on the way. If you play your cards wrong they blackmail your ass just like in reality when you fuck up and people find out but take sympathy on you and something unfolds you are not sure yet you like or dislike.
Their purpose is to stir shit up. Be it the "papi roleplay" and "yes choke me daddy" or the "mommy's boy" roleplay or the simple "i am pregnant and i am horny 24/7" kinda thing. They do not care if the MC gets in trouble for the shit they are doing together. They want sex and they know how to get it or at least how to offer it to get their way. There is no scenario in which the boss of the MC finding this out that will end well for the MC. All the office ladies have to do is stick to their side of the story and the MC loses his job. Its 3 against 1 if they choose so.
So we conclude that Brooke is important to reflect both denise and macy's motivation towards the MC. Denise would like a new stepmom or at least don't mind if she gets one while macy sees only the enemy snatching the man she loves away. And she goes ballistic instantly.
The office ladies serve the purpose of turning things a bit upside down for the MC at the workplace and provide some tension release for the player and the MC inside the story. if you are into roleplay you get some side action and some pregnant sex in the process. They could provided by the story so far however also backstab the MC quite hard and make him lose his job. Not to speak of the drama it would unfold once macy finds out the MC banged literally everything he could while being at work.
So side characters are not useless and they serve a purpose. If you skip through everything thats on you. But they clearly have a role inside that story that makes sense and is reasonable aside from the "here are some sex scenes so one side of the player base can shut up."
The main reason for side charactes is also you get alot of main character development done when using side characters. Like moral behaviour which is showcased in this game.
Sorry for my rant. Didn't have coffee yet.
As i assume everyone knows the original three star war movies i take that as an example to cut out all side characters and present you a clusterfuck of a story that makes no sense.
Star wars a new hope: Darth Vader is alone in a Star Destroyer chasing a rebel ship with no one in it but princess leia, C3PO and R2-D2. Luke sits alone on a table on his planet and drives around. There are no jawas so he just finds the 2 androids.
Ben Kenobi comes to talk they drive into a ghost town to meet Han Solo and Chewbacca who have nothing to do but wait for them. Meanwhile Darth Vader destroys a Planet with the Death Star which is tricky cause he is all alone and no one operates shit in this gigantic station. The group with luke travels to the death star with no one in it but Darth Vader and just collect princess leia. Ben fights Vader and becomes one with the force. The rest travels to the rebel station where no one is and no plan is formed against the death star. So Luke decides to attack it solo. Which works cause no one operates the laser turrets on the station. Vader tries to stop luke but is shot down by Han. Death star goes kaboom and they all meet again in the rebel base to get medals of honor and congratulate each other cause no one else is there to applaud them. Credits roll.
The point of side characters is to add value and depth to a character and the motivation of said character. Without the deaths of Lukes uncle and aunt he would not be motivated to do something about it or question certain things or start to listen to what Ben Kenobi tells and teaches him. Without the cantina scenes the audience would not know that Han is a dangerous man and that Ben Kenobi is even more dangerous and what jedi mind tricks are.
Without the scenes inside the death star we would not realize how dangerous vader really is nor how the imperial moffs like tarkin have even power over him. So the empire is a force of its own that dwarfs the power of the force in comparison.
I stop here cause you got the point. Now we look at LoML and figure out what do those side characters add aside from sexual content.
1. Brooke.
She does what the wards can not do at the moment when the game starts. Listen to your problems and offer a way to escape all the stress and tension in a more direct and fun way. Be it to photocopy your junk or to taste the sweet juices of the ladycake. Also offering places for the MC's dick to rest and is in general fun to be around. Offers advice and even a job that depending on the MC choices could improve or destroy the situation with the wards at home.
Brooke is the surrogate mother or stepmom choice the MC has inside the story that would work that way if the story continues with her. She also is instantly the nemesis of Macy who hates her guts simply because she can offer things to the MC macy thinks she can not.
Denise on the other hand doesn't have a Problem with brooke or the MC and her having fun times together. If the MC is happy, Denise is happy. This also reflects the need of Denise wanting an adult women she can look up to and learn from in her life. While macy does not want any of that.
This adds tension to a otherwise boring story in which you would think macy is just a livid cunt with no joy in her life. She however is a women that is in love and deeply afraid of losing her love interest which gets quite obvious once Brooke enters the house.
2. The office ladies.
They can be your first harem or your fucking nightmare. We all know people like that on the workplace who get on your nerves simply because they can and their work is flawless which is why their words has always more value than your own. If you play your cards right you get some action while enjoying it and get some laughs on the way. If you play your cards wrong they blackmail your ass just like in reality when you fuck up and people find out but take sympathy on you and something unfolds you are not sure yet you like or dislike.
Their purpose is to stir shit up. Be it the "papi roleplay" and "yes choke me daddy" or the "mommy's boy" roleplay or the simple "i am pregnant and i am horny 24/7" kinda thing. They do not care if the MC gets in trouble for the shit they are doing together. They want sex and they know how to get it or at least how to offer it to get their way. There is no scenario in which the boss of the MC finding this out that will end well for the MC. All the office ladies have to do is stick to their side of the story and the MC loses his job. Its 3 against 1 if they choose so.
So we conclude that Brooke is important to reflect both denise and macy's motivation towards the MC. Denise would like a new stepmom or at least don't mind if she gets one while macy sees only the enemy snatching the man she loves away. And she goes ballistic instantly.
The office ladies serve the purpose of turning things a bit upside down for the MC at the workplace and provide some tension release for the player and the MC inside the story. if you are into roleplay you get some side action and some pregnant sex in the process. They could provided by the story so far however also backstab the MC quite hard and make him lose his job. Not to speak of the drama it would unfold once macy finds out the MC banged literally everything he could while being at work.
So side characters are not useless and they serve a purpose. If you skip through everything thats on you. But they clearly have a role inside that story that makes sense and is reasonable aside from the "here are some sex scenes so one side of the player base can shut up."
The main reason for side charactes is also you get alot of main character development done when using side characters. Like moral behaviour which is showcased in this game.
Sorry for my rant. Didn't have coffee yet.
Kionashi
Active Member
- Jul 11, 2021
- 551
- 1,167
- 260
damn...what a ride....this is honestly...one of the greatest's AVN I ever played...
The character models..uff, it was kinda of a shock to see a VN with non conventionally attractive models, I had my reservations at the beginning but not much later I ended up totally in love with the girls, both their bodies and personalities..I don't like to call them "real people" because conventionally attractive girls are real people too, but is nice to see different body types in a sea of sexy girls, it was super nice and I want to give mad props to the developer for taking that risk with their story because it did nothing but improve the quality of the game.
The technical details...and details is the key word here I've never seen an AVN with such dynamic "camera work", seeing the characters blinking, moving around the screen, zooming in and out in some areas...it was a visual delight and made the characters look not like soulless mannequins but like real human beings...seriously..the attention to detail is insane, seeing little things like movements in the background while the characters are talking help a lot with the immersion and I loved every single tiny detail put into this game even though the bear scene in the background scare the shit out of me . Also mad props for speeding up the development process by reusing character poses from time to time, Im sure that helps a lot to get things running.
The sex scenes...Im usually a fan of the animations when they are well made, but sometimes I feel the developers invest waaaay too much time animating a sex scene when they could be working on something else specially since when Im invested a a AVN I care waaaay more about the story progression than the sex scenes per se... that said, the dirty talk, the healthy amount of frames, all the moving parts and oh my god the climax...seeing Macy reach the climax moving her thighs with the help of her little sister was incredibly hot! it blows out of the water all those developers making 5 second loops of some amazing sex scenes!
The characters...I love all the characters if that wasn't obvious the writing is pretty clever and enjoyable to read there wasn't a single point I wanted to skip the dialog, I even really liked all my interactions with the Coven, since there seems to be a little discourse around those ladies I wanted to throw my 2 cents in... I though these ladies were just some kind of "bitch squad" made just to get in the way of the MC and cause conflict but after we got involved in the first sex scene with one of them (the one with daddy issues) I started to see them as something else...they were all troubled ladies in their own way, and I decide to help them not because they had something I needed, but because it felt right to help them out, teaching the girl with daddy issues that sex doesn't have to involve violence, or helping a fellow parent cope with their sexual needs being unfulfilled...it felt nice to make them happier.... Now Im 1000% sure I don't have a pregnancy fetish but I still had sex with the pregnant lady because before playing this game I was kinda in the position of her husband (mentally I mean), when I saw a pregnant lady I saw a fragile being that must be kept from all harm, but now I notice it was all ignorance for my part, they are still woman, they aren't that fragile, they wont break for having sex and more importantly, they are in a moment of their lives when their self confidence tends to be in a all time low... with the leakings, the constant bladder problems, the weight gain...that's the moment when they must feel super insecure about themselves and ignoring their sexual needs, even if is out of care, can be a hard for them...I can't believe Im saying this but I learned something with this AVN....something I will keep close to my hearth in the future and Im thankful for that.
The character models..uff, it was kinda of a shock to see a VN with non conventionally attractive models, I had my reservations at the beginning but not much later I ended up totally in love with the girls, both their bodies and personalities..I don't like to call them "real people" because conventionally attractive girls are real people too, but is nice to see different body types in a sea of sexy girls, it was super nice and I want to give mad props to the developer for taking that risk with their story because it did nothing but improve the quality of the game.
The technical details...and details is the key word here I've never seen an AVN with such dynamic "camera work", seeing the characters blinking, moving around the screen, zooming in and out in some areas...it was a visual delight and made the characters look not like soulless mannequins but like real human beings...seriously..the attention to detail is insane, seeing little things like movements in the background while the characters are talking help a lot with the immersion and I loved every single tiny detail put into this game even though the bear scene in the background scare the shit out of me
. Also mad props for speeding up the development process by reusing character poses from time to time, Im sure that helps a lot to get things running.The sex scenes...Im usually a fan of the animations when they are well made, but sometimes I feel the developers invest waaaay too much time animating a sex scene when they could be working on something else specially since when Im invested a a AVN I care waaaay more about the story progression than the sex scenes per se... that said, the dirty talk, the healthy amount of frames, all the moving parts and oh my god the climax...seeing Macy reach the climax moving her thighs with the help of her little sister was incredibly hot! it blows out of the water all those developers making 5 second loops of some amazing sex scenes!
The characters...I love all the characters if that wasn't obvious the writing is pretty clever and enjoyable to read there wasn't a single point I wanted to skip the dialog, I even really liked all my interactions with the Coven, since there seems to be a little discourse around those ladies I wanted to throw my 2 cents in... I though these ladies were just some kind of "bitch squad" made just to get in the way of the MC and cause conflict but after we got involved in the first sex scene with one of them (the one with daddy issues) I started to see them as something else...they were all troubled ladies in their own way, and I decide to help them not because they had something I needed, but because it felt right to help them out, teaching the girl with daddy issues that sex doesn't have to involve violence, or helping a fellow parent cope with their sexual needs being unfulfilled...it felt nice to make them happier.... Now Im 1000% sure I don't have a pregnancy fetish but I still had sex with the pregnant lady because before playing this game I was kinda in the position of her husband (mentally I mean), when I saw a pregnant lady I saw a fragile being that must be kept from all harm, but now I notice it was all ignorance for my part, they are still woman, they aren't that fragile, they wont break for having sex and more importantly, they are in a moment of their lives when their self confidence tends to be in a all time low... with the leakings, the constant bladder problems, the weight gain...that's the moment when they must feel super insecure about themselves and ignoring their sexual needs, even if is out of care, can be a hard for them...I can't believe Im saying this but I learned something with this AVN....something I will keep close to my hearth in the future and Im thankful for that.
Calvar
Newbie
- May 10, 2017
- 24
- 58
- 177
So excited for the update. I'm confident it will be well worth the wait. Thank you for your efforts!
Dragon59
Conversation Conqueror
- Apr 24, 2020
- 6,715
- 10,988
- 842
I approach the term along the lines of "fashion model looks do occur in the real world, but they are statistically rather rare." I see the label as saying "statistically realistic." Especially when you consider body and face types around the world, expecting everyone to have Northern European fashion model looks is a bit unrealistic. I feel it's also a push back from all the harassment that "women who do not match the current western beauty standards," often receive.
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Dolphin3000
Well-Known Member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,429
- 2,379
- 479
Of course side characters are important for a long story, they may not be that important in a short story. But that's beyond the point. The point is, in a big production such as a Star Wars movie, or a big company game, there are resources, people and money to be invested in developing each detail of the product, be it, sound effects, soundtrack, props, wardrobe, animations, side characters, etc. without compromising the production deadline.
It is a quite different story when we're talking about a single guy, a couple of guys project. Each new feature added, soundtrack, voice, animations, side characters, etc. will have a big impact in the product development time. So, things that won't add much to, in this case, the game, shouldn't be added. No need for adding voice, no need for much depth for side characters, they are good for context. The limited time and resources should be focused on the main story.
If the guy or the small group of guys decides to make the "perfect" game with everything they imagined, it may take forever for them to finish it, and halfway through the game development they may have lost the enthusiasm to do it, and we have another abandoned game.
Dolphin3000
Well-Known Member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,429
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It is still within the regular updates timespan for this game
SakataDraven
Newbie
- Mar 9, 2018
- 62
- 121
- 214
There is a weekly update on progress unlike many other games labeled with the "abandoned" tag