Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[DownTheDrain]

If she blitzes the main quest, people will complain since all the areas are empty with nothing to do in them.

Blitzes it?
From what I gathered here the main story hasn't even moved in like a year. There's quite a difference between rushing something and not working on it at all because you get bogged down with silly side projects.

 

[Asia Argento]

oh yeah for sure, and everyone else on the discord agrees (though they still push their retarded pet projects constantly) But she's still the dev. I've seen what she makes and it's not enough to hire another coder, we have plenty of volunteers who help out though, those are the git pushers he complained about being the meat of the update. I'm trying to get more writers to assemble but there aren't a whole lot willing and the ones we do get tend to not be the best. (including me, I'm the guy who wrote the hyena lore book. I need to improve my character dialogue so I haven't tried any characters yet.)

I mean, I feel she is another ArcGames (Note my patreon donations on the left)... Both have done a decent job and is getting big noise for "being them" and making mistakes. Arc with the art weirdness and Innoxia with her updating awkwardness.

But getting this toxic about it. Come on. I get disappointment, but TITS and CoC exists are can hold you over... Same with Degrees of Lewdity. Thats three similar games to distract you and hold you over until Inno gets her stuff straight.

 

[H3ntaiMaster69]

If she blitzes the main quest, people will complain since all the areas are empty with nothing to do in them. I agree that nyan quest was a retard pet project but race overhaul was a necessary time investment and you are seeing the fruits of it with all the new races. Those are all user created. I can assure you I will use my vast influence over the project to tell any new shit pet project to go fuck off.

because the contributors are code monkeys, not writers.

I know but I'm legit scared for the future of this game, I've seen to many good porn games crash and burn and I'm seeing a lot of similar patterns here.

 

[Taak]

On a different note, if there are so many helping hands and so many requests for obscure pet projects, why don't the contributors focus on all that sideshow shit while the main dev continues the actual storyline?

Because they aren't part of the project, they are pretty much in a position of modders and do what they feel like doing when they feel like they want to do it. Plus Inno has this "I don't need more people to work/be dedicated to this project" mentality even tho they have funding to hire someone and began accepting contributions.

 

[tehlemon]

I'm going through the Nyan content that Inno added for this patch. Fuck this is weirdly written. It's like, a bunch of obvious pandering mixed with really confusing writing.

Some of these scenes and the added writing is pretty clear that Inno didn't really know where she wanted to go with it, but knew she needed some branching options. There's a bunch of awkward stuff all over. Like, if you buy the most expensive wine it make sure to tell you that Nyan deservers the absolute best. To which Nyan responds by saying some "oh, I heard that's the absolute best" type line. Fucking, just skip this entire screen. It doesn't add anything to the writing other than sounding pointlessly awkward. Not in the "this character is awkward" way, but in the "this author doesn't know what they're doing" type way. And there's a ton of these. Pointless choices with awkward writing that exist only to give you something to click and add variation to a scene sequence that's going to be *very* stale after a couple repeats.

And wow, all the interactions with Nyan's mother are just bad. Like, fuck.

I'm currently one of the incredibly rare demons, worth a few billion credits, and probably the most prolific slaver in the city. Why the hell are you trying to impress me by telling me how successful you are. I can literally buy your shops entire inventory and the only noticable cost is me developing an RSI. If you were one of the most successful business women in the city, you'd know who I am. Fucking every demon I've interacted with, all people who in-world are more important than you, know who I am. Most of them knew of my reputation and presence before meeting me. And she's telling me that she's successful because she's rich and she interacts with demons? What the fuck is this narrative dissonance?

By the game's own logic, I'm at worst her equal. In any possible, consistent sense, I'm outright her better. She's trying to talk down to me because she interacts with the elder illin... I was literally made a demon by one. And then she tells me that she can "fuck absolutely whoever [she] wants." In front of her sheltered daughter that she's trying to protect from me? WTF?

And why the hell is there no option for me to tell her to step the fuck off? Bitch, I could probably have you in a slave collar by morning. I'm the daughter of the elder illin that runs the city and deeply connected with the police at this point. I could likely literally have her in a slave collar by morning.

Wait, I know the answer. This entire quest is clearly written to be trope-y fan service. And way m ore importantly, it's being written entirely in isolation from the greater story and themes to make the Nyan fanclub happy. And I honestly don't know why they would be, this completely changes the character that the fanclub was for.

It would have been so incredibly easy to look at where you are in the story line, or at your wealth, or at your current slave count, or at the fact that you're a literally fucking demon and just have Nyan's mother acknowledge these things directly. By making this a choice where I have to say them, its just really, really bad. Inno is clearly trying to add player agency by making it a choice, but by ignoring everything else going on in the game and giving very limited options it actually *removes* all player agency.

I've complained about the writing being disjointed and disconnected in the past, and this update is probably the worst example of it.

Even in isolation, the writing isn't consistent. Inno made a big deal to point out the Nyan's stutter was tied to how nervous she's feeling. The more she relaxes, the more the stutter goes away. So why after being surprised by her mother catching her bringing a date home, and then having her date being interrogated/threatened, has Nyan almost completely lost her trademark stutter. Shouldn't that be back in full force? Her mom, who she apparently looks up to so highly that she's letting all this happen, just caught her bringing back her date, whom she apparently loves, and then isn't nervous as that person's being grilled?

Wait no, that's not quiet right. It's worse than that. See, as you get questions right, the stutter increases. So Nyan is apparently becoming *more* nervous as you get questions right, while her actual dialog is her talking about how you do care about her. This would have been the perfect time to SHOW the player how Nyan feels about what's going on, but it was completely missed. Have her stutter be at its most extreme during the first introduction with her mom. Have the stutter slowly fade as Nyan is realizing that you're getting the question right. Shit, have her mom actually notice Nyan's reaction, and make *that* be the reason why she approves of you. It'd be the perfect moment to *show* how Nyan feels while also making her mom seem like someone who's at least somewhat redeemable as a character. At the very least, it would make this entire scene so much less lame.

I feel like I should just stop there, but fuck it lets just keep going. Lets talk about something other than writing...

It's really fucking annoying that all of the dialog options I'm being given are super unclear what the tone is going to be or what my character is actually going to say. I can't choose a response that my character would give because all of these options have tooltips that are super unclear. This is the kind of stuff that games like FO4 got destroyed over. The introduction with Nyan's mother is the worst offender with this. That entire part of the sequence is just really, really bad. I can see why it only took Inno three weeks.

But hey, at least we finally got to see why there were a ton of "you're obviously going to be quizzed on this" talk scenes added in.

Speaking of the quiz, why can't I just tell mom outright "I don't need to be interviewed by you, and this is highly inappropriate." I literally break slaves for a living. I should be able to handle dealing with one stuck up old lady. And that's ignoring the fact that someone she's flashing me while she has a full grown adult sitting fully in her lap. Like, it made a big deal to point out that she pulled Nyan completely up into her lap. I'm suddenly wondering if Inno has ever had anyone sit in her lap before.

Also, the way shit is tracked in the game is just goofy. I love how Nyan's mom gains and loses affection towards the player are prominently displayed mid scene. But the gains/losses appear to all be flat rates. If you do it right, you can actually have Nyan's mom adore you while also being a complete bitch. Nicely designed. I only bothered going so far as loved, but it was pretty stupid.

And then after all of that, the scene ends with her mom making an inappropriate joke that Nyan doesn't react to at all, despite her character being the exact type of person who should be reacting. It's awkward as fuck that this all leads to a sex scene, because Nyan is the type of person who should have found this all to be a huge turn off. Shit, I found it to be a turn off, and I'm the filthy pervert who immediately wanted to turn Nyan's mom into a sex slave.

I'm a little disappointing that I couldn't just end the entire scene by saying "Oh, don't worry. We were actually just hear to pick up some of Nyan's clothes. She was going to spend the night at my place tonight, but it might be best if we both stay out of your hair while you're here. She can stay with me while your imposing yourself here."

And just to add a bit of humor here, just by word count, this post would have taken Inno two weeks to write.

 

[H3ntaiMaster69]

I mean, I feel she is another ArcGames (Note my patreon donations on the left)... Both have done a decent job and is getting big noise for "being them" and making mistakes. Arc with the art weirdness and Innoxia with her updating awkwardness.

But getting this toxic about it. Come on. I get disappointment, but TITS and CoC exists are can hold you over... Same with Degrees of Lewdity. Thats three similar games to distract you and hold you over until Inno gets her stuff straight.

"Thats three similar games to distract you and hold you over until Inno gets her stuff straight." This sounds like *if you don't like the game then play something else* How many people are gonna be like "fuck this" and never come back to this game since Inno can't get her shit together? How many people have paid to contribute this game? People are bitching because they want it to succeed and progress.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Because they aren't part of the project, they are pretty much in a position of modders and do what they feel like doing when they feel like they want to do it. Plus Inno has this "I don't need a team to work on this project" mentality even tho they have funding to hire someone.

Alright, so you have a bunch of fanatic furries with silly requests, a group of modders adding whatever they feel like and a dev who doesn't want to tell anyone to fuck off because it could affect the bottom line?
Sounds like they need a project manager, not another coder or writer.

 

[Asia Argento]

"Thats three similar games to distract you and hold you over until Inno gets her stuff straight." This sounds like *if you don't like the game then play something else* How many people are gonna be like "fuck this" and never come back to this game since Inno can't get her shit together? How many people have paid to contribute this game? People are bitching because they want it to succeed and progress.

It's not my intent to sound like that to you... Of the people on here, you have been pretty reasonable... but there are quite a few just being excessively toxic... That is to THEM.

Nonetheless, I hope all of you have a pleasant day. Stay hydrated.

 

[moohoo]

even tho they have funding to hire someone and began accepting contributions.

they don't. She lives in the great Kingdom of United. After they take a big wet bite from taxes, she makes 2000 dollars a month so equivalent to a full-time minimum wage job.

 

[throbzombie]

I mean, I feel she is another ArcGames (Note my patreon donations on the left)... Both have done a decent job and is getting big noise for "being them" and making mistakes. Arc with the art weirdness and Innoxia with her updating awkwardness.

But getting this toxic about it. Come on. I get disappointment, but TITS and CoC exists are can hold you over... Same with Degrees of Lewdity. Thats three similar games to distract you and hold you over until Inno gets her stuff straight.

This thread seems toxic to you? This thread? Christ alive, buddy. And Fen & Pals aren't much better than Inno.

 

[Mustang Flex]

I'm going through the Nyan content that Inno added for this patch. Fuck this is weirdly written. It's like, a bunch of obvious pandering mixed with really confusing writing.

Some of these scenes and the added writing is pretty clear that Inno didn't really know where she wanted to go with it, but knew she needed some branching options. There's a bunch of awkward stuff all over. Like, if you buy the most expensive wine it make sure to tell you that Nyan deservers the absolute best. To which Nyan responds by saying some "oh, I heard that's the absolute best" type line. Fucking, just skip this entire screen. It doesn't add anything to the writing other than sounding pointlessly awkward. Not in the "this character is awkward" way, but in the "this author doesn't know what they're doing" type way. And there's a ton of these. Pointless choices with awkward writing that exist only to give you something to click and add variation to a scene sequence that's going to be *very* stale after a couple repeats.

And wow, all the interactions with Nyan's mother are just bad. Like, fuck.

I'm currently one of the incredibly rare demons, worth a few billion credits, and probably the most prolific slaver in the city. Why the hell are you trying to impress me by telling me how successful you are. I can literally buy your shops entire inventory and the only noticable cost is me developing an RSI. If you were one of the most successful business women in the city, you'd know who I am. Fucking every demon I've interacted with, all people who in-world are more important than you, know who I am. Most of them knew of my reputation and presence before meeting me. And she's telling me that she's successful because she's rich and she interacts with demons? What the fuck is this narrative dissonance?

By the game's own logic, I'm at worst her equal. In any possible, consistent sense, I'm outright her better. She's trying to talk down to me because she interacts with the elder illin... I was literally made a demon by one. And then she tells me that she can "fuck absolutely whoever [she] wants." In front of her sheltered daughter that she's trying to protect from me? WTF?

And why the hell is there no option for me to tell her to step the fuck off? Bitch, I could probably have you in a slave collar by morning. I'm the daughter of the elder illin that runs the city and deeply connected with the police at this point. I could likely literally have her in a slave collar by morning.

Wait, I know the answer. This entire quest is clearly written to be trope-y fan service. And way m ore importantly, it's being written entirely in isolation from the greater story and themes to make the Nyan fanclub happy. And I honestly don't know why they would be, this completely changes the character that the fanclub was for.

It would have been so incredibly easy to look at where you are in the story line, or at your wealth, or at your current slave count, or at the fact that you're a literally fucking demon and just have Nyan's mother acknowledge these things directly. By making this a choice where I have to say them, its just really, really bad. Inno is clearly trying to add player agency by making it a choice, but by ignoring everything else going on in the game and giving very limited options it actually *removes* all player agency.

I've complained about the writing being disjointed and disconnected in the past, and this update is probably the worst example of it.

Even in isolation, the writing isn't consistent. Inno made a big deal to point out the Nyan's stutter was tied to how nervous she's feeling. The more she relaxes, the more the stutter goes away. So why after being surprised by her mother catching her bringing a date home, and then having her date being interrogated/threatened, has Nyan almost completely lost her trademark stutter. Shouldn't that be back in full force? Her mom, who she apparently looks up to so highly that she's letting all this happen, just caught her bringing back her date, whom she apparently loves, and then isn't nervous as that person's being grilled?

Wait no, that's not quiet right. It's worse than that. See, as you get questions right, the stutter increases. So Nyan is apparently becoming *more* nervous as you get questions right, while her actual dialog is her talking about how you do care about her. This would have been the perfect time to SHOW the player how Nyan feels about what's going on, but it was completely missed. Have her stutter be at its most extreme during the first introduction with her mom. Have the stutter slowly fade as Nyan is realizing that you're getting the question right. Shit, have her mom actually notice Nyan's reaction, and make *that* be the reason why she approves of you. It'd be the perfect moment to *show* how Nyan feels while also making her mom seem like someone who's at least somewhat redeemable as a character. At the very least, it would make this entire scene so much less lame.

I feel like I should just stop there, but fuck it lets just keep going. Lets talk about something other than writing...

It's really fucking annoying that all of the dialog options I'm being given are super unclear what the tone is going to be or what my character is actually going to say. I can't choose a response that my character would give because all of these options have tooltips that are super unclear. This is the kind of stuff that games like FO4 got destroyed over. The introduction with Nyan's mother is the worst offender with this. That entire part of the sequence is just really, really bad. I can see why it only took Inno three weeks.

But hey, at least we finally got to see why there were a ton of "you're obviously going to be quizzed on this" talk scenes added in.

Speaking of the quiz, why can't I just tell mom outright "I don't need to be interviewed by you, and this is highly inappropriate." I literally break slaves for a living. I should be able to handle dealing with one stuck up old lady. And that's ignoring the fact that someone she's flashing me while she has a full grown adult sitting fully in her lap. Like, it made a big deal to point out that she pulled Nyan completely up into her lap. I'm suddenly wondering if Inno has ever had anyone sit in her lap before.

Also, the way shit is tracked in the game is just goofy. I love how Nyan's mom gains and loses affection towards the player are prominently displayed mid scene. But the gains/losses appear to all be flat rates. If you do it right, you can actually have Nyan's mom adore you while also being a complete bitch. Nicely designed. I only bothered going so far as loved, but it was pretty stupid.

And then after all of that, the scene ends with her mom making an inappropriate joke that Nyan doesn't react to at all, despite her character being the exact type of person who should be reacting. It's awkward as fuck that this all leads to a sex scene, because Nyan is the type of person who should have found this all to be a huge turn off. Shit, I found it to be a turn off, and I'm the filthy pervert who immediately wanted to turn Nyan's mom into a sex slave.

I'm a little disappointing that I couldn't just end the entire scene by saying "Oh, don't worry. We were actually just hear to pick up some of Nyan's clothes. She was going to spend the night at my place tonight, but it might be best if we both stay out of your hair while you're here. She can stay with me while your imposing yourself here."

And just to add a bit of humor here, just by word count, this post would have taken Inno two weeks to write.

Sweet jesus! Someone call the U.N., we just witnessed a massacre. The way things are going, I'm feeling more vindicated in not really getting too deep into any of the NPCs. I legit can't remember most of their names, let alone what any of them are actually like.

 

[stuffinabox]

Alright, so you have a bunch of fanatic furries with silly requests, a group of modders adding whatever they feel like and a dev who doesn't want to tell anyone to fuck off because it could affect the bottom line?
Sounds like they need a project manager, not another coder or writer.

One dedicated writer. One dedicated coder. One dedicated artist.
Can we accomplish this on 2500$ a month? Probably. I doubt Innoxia really has any idea of how to run a game at this point.

 

[M0nte]

This thread seems toxic to you? This thread? Christ alive, buddy. And Fen & Pals are hardly any better than Inno at this point.

Savin and co do release content regularly tho. And much faster then anyone else on this site. Which I mean is accomplishment in itself. Now quality of content, that is debatable. But at least with CoC2 stuff we do not get to complain about lack of updates, we complain about stuff that is (not) being added. Which does also means that we do not get to the point where people start praising the game whenever somewhat substantial update drops.

Still this does explain why costumer service here is about as welcoming as that of fast food employe. She gets paid as much as one to pump out burgers (update).

 

[DownTheDrain]

How about we leave their discord out of this?

That's just asking for a mod to drop by, indiscriminately deleting the last 10 pages for being off-topic, handing out a few infractions at random and nuking any possible discussion.

 

[redcynic]

If Inno checks here I'll eat a sock.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

How about we leave their discord out of this?

That's just asking for a mod to drop by, indiscriminately deleting the last 10 pages for being off-topic, handing out a few infractions at random and nuking any possible discussion.

That's fine with me. I won't bring it up if they don't. But, don't you think that your post in itself proves that they were lying about the situation? The fact that you're afraid to even talk about them, out of fear that you'll be silenced again? I'll stop. But, this is not going to be a one-sided discussion, where they get to put out an image of their server and not be met with facts and evidence of what really goes on in there. I'm not going to just let them lie like this, because I'm not a coward. I'll call them out, if they do this again. And if I have to eat another administrative response for it, so be it. I have no emotional attachment to this game or this place.

 

[tehlemon]

The main reason I won't join the discord is because that's not actually a place to talk about game writing or development. Like, you can't write a two page breakdown of an updates writing, that'd get you banned immediately. Not because of what was said, but because discord is terrible for long form content. And there's likely more people here who've gone through the code base, so that's just not an audience to talk development with.

But I'd be lying if I didn't want to see the nyanclub's reaction to my last post though. And the whole "why don't you make your own game" defense falls pretty flat with me, for obvious reasons lol

 

[DownTheDrain]

That's fine with me. I won't bring it up if they don't. But, don't you think that your post in itself proves that they were lying about the situation? The fact that you're afraid to even talk about them, out of fear that you'll be silenced again? I'll stop. But, this is not going to be a one-sided discussion, where they get to put out an image of their server and not be met with facts and evidence of what really goes on in there. I'm not going to just let them lie like this, because I'm not a coward. I'll call them out, if they do this again.

I'll be perfectly honest here, I don't give a shit what goes on on their discord or blog or whatever. I don't care how much their dev makes or how much their mods silence dissenters. Our own mods aren't any better in that regard.

What I do care about is the lack of progress in the game and I feel we had a reasonable discussion about the how and why going, so I'd rather stick to that than argue about forum politics of some place I never plan to visit anyway.

 

[Scapdra1]

Any updates on the crypto thing yet? I'm waiting for news on that before I attempt to download the latest patch masquerading as a content update.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Get to eatin that sock boy

Dinner is served I guess...