Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[alex2011]

Was there ever any more story or other locations (talking about the ones that have exits at the end of the map) added?
It seems the dev is competing with some other devs to add the most stuff that doesn't really add anything to the overall

That's why people are so aggravated, because we are over a year late for having areas outside Dominion. There is technically a map, but it is entirely blank. You can walk around, but you can only interact with Dominion.

"We're getting to a point where leaving Dominion may no longer be possible without a serious rework and possibly an engine change that would take another year or two for Inno to learn how to replicate the game in that."

Oh fuck, if that happened it would legit kill the game.

Someone on the blog discovered a current hard limit for the number of NPCs by filling every tile in dominion with either an offspring or random encounter NPC and found that it slows the game drastically or even crashes.

This hard limit may not be a Java thing, but the way the game is designed at its core right now, so there may be hope in a drastic core overhaul. However, IF it happens to be Java, the game is dead, nothing more will be doable within reason.

Yep. You can build the entirety of the game from the public repo. The license terms likely wouldn't qualify as open source, but from what I can tell it's close enough that it could be a good foundation for a spin-off project.

If Inno keeps anything to themselves, it's probably a private development repo that's a few steps ahead of the public one. It seems like they batch a bunch of changes and then push them all into the public repo en masse (at least, I hope that's how they do it).



That's solely due to the way the game engine is designed. Java is an incredibly popular and capable language/VM (same with .NET), but if the programmer doesn't have a decent handle on memory management and data structures it's not going to end well. High level languages are easy to get into, but when you're dealing with anything with this level of complexity things can get ugly if you don't have a grasp of some low-level concepts.

And hey, it could have been worse: they could have tried writing it in C/C++.

But editing the core files is the key, you're saying someone could do that?

I'm aware how popular Java is and, assuming this is solely a game issue, that's a relief because that would have been an instant KO scenario for the entire project.

In this case, the best bet is probably to ask for help, on a volunteer basis if necessary, I just don't see a major overhaul to increase this limit being within Inno's wheelhouse given this was admittedly their first project and, without an overhaul, it is going to stall progress in ALL aspects, including side content, completely.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

I've suggested it before, but Inno could simply resolve to contain content to Dominion from now and onward. It'd be a reasonable decision and it wouldn't require foregoing new areas. They'd simply have to create more areas like Submission; they would also be extensions of Dominion that would still be open to variation to suit the general atmosphere. They've pretty much shoved a world's worth of NPCs into Dominion and Submission. They could easily simplify the burden and project goals to be more sustainable and allow more freedom to be creative with side story content. It would allow them to actually make these side characters more important to the plot. Nyan's mother, for example, could be a key character involved in a quest to gain information on Lilith's diplomats, given her wealth and social influence. Helena could use her celebrity status to assist the PC by manipulating public perception of the PC via counter-propaganda, should Lilith decide to retaliate against the PC on a cultural/media level. There's plenty of plot resources already placed in this one location and they're just not being used beyond archetypal fetish fulfillment.

I'm not saying I don't want Fields to come along, though. I'm saying that Fields could be introduced in a different way. It could be a new subsection of Dominion, like with the Harpy Nests. They were on the right track with that, imo, and I think scaling down the ambition would probably ease things on both ends of this problem.

 

[Mandrake9000]

I think you need to hold off on these bug fixes and finally come out with some, oh I don't know, new gameplay features! Jesus Christ I have never seen a game, pornographic or otherwise, that is updated so frequently but has so little content.

 

[throbzombie]

I've suggested it before, but Inno could simply resolve to contain content to Dominion from now and onward. It'd be a reasonable decision and it wouldn't require foregoing new areas. They'd simply have to create more areas like Submission; they would also be extensions of Dominion that would still be open to variation to suit the general atmosphere. They've pretty much shoved a world's worth of NPCs into Dominion and Submission. They could easily simplify the burden and project goals to be more sustainable and allow more freedom to be creative with side story content. It would allow them to actually make these side characters more important to the plot. Nyan's mother, for example, could be a key character involved in a quest to gain information on Lilith's diplomats, given her wealth and social influence. Helena could use her celebrity status to assist the PC by manipulating public perception of the PC via counter-propaganda, should Lilith decide to retaliate against the PC on a cultural/media level. There's plenty of plot resources already placed in this one location and they're just not being used beyond archetypal fetish fulfillment.

I'm not saying I don't want Fields to come along, though. I'm saying that Fields could be introduced in a different way. It could be a new subsection of Dominion, like with the Harpy Nests. They were on the right track with that, imo, and I think scaling down the ambition would probably ease things on both ends of this problem.

I think Inno ought to spread some Dominion content out over the map. As the tutorial area, Dominion should only have basic content anyway, to encourage the player to explore and find new stuff. I think Natalya, Kay, the Rat Warrens, and the Bat Caves can probably transplanted to other locations without too much fuss, and perhaps some of the extraneous features, like the promised property management, can be moved to other areas, as well. That way there'll be less to do in filling out the map and Dominion will be less content-heavy.

 

[Mustang Flex]

I'm torn between the last two ideas concerning future content. My gut reaction is that expanding Dominion more to have enough room for the rest of the story. And give more time and effort into making Dominion stand out as a setting with it's own lore and stories to tell.

But, there is merit in the later too. A fair few things could be transplanted. At the end of the day though, at least we're in agreement that if Dominion is any indication. The game is probably FUBAR if most major story beats are intended to be in different locales. Even in a best case scenario, everywhere else is going to feel like a barren wasteland. That, or the game never gets done since Inno will fail if she tires to flesh out every zone.

 

[redcynic]

Honestly what gets me on the nyan stuff is like, the whole time we get it shoved into our faces Nyan is a shy uwu introvert, very moe, very cute, very pure, etc. Then we meet her mom who's some bigshot schoomzer maven, okay sure its a yin yang thing of mother and daughter.

But then like, her mom asks you to date both of them? and Nyan is just "oh yeah i think that's fine" right after she does a big woobie reveal that you're her first love and its all so romantic?

And THEN nyan is just suddenly super into the idea of a fucking threesome with her own mom? Holy shit where did that come from, it's not even a "oh wow she's actually super kinky under the innocent exterior" there is NO hinting that Nyan is anything but a pure sweet snowflake until suddenly HELL YEAH ME AND MOMMY IN KITTY FETISHWEAR BANG US BOTH HOMESLICE

 

[SordidDreams]

I think Inno ought to spread some Dominion content out over the map. [...] That way there'll be less to do in filling out the map and Dominion will be less content-heavy.

Content-heavy? Most tiles in Dominion are empty. You could easily cram a hundred times more content into the current map and it would still be far from full. I don't understand why people want to spread content across a large overworld map. It's going to take a boatload of clicking to cross all those empty tiles to get to where you're going the first time, and every time after that you're just going to fast travel. What's the benefit? The last thing I want is for LT to become another Daggerfall.

 

[Mustang Flex]

Honestly what gets me on the nyan stuff is like, the whole time we get it shoved into our faces Nyan is a shy uwu introvert, very moe, very cute, very pure, etc. Then we meet her mom who's some bigshot schoomzer maven, okay sure its a yin yang thing of mother and daughter.

But then like, her mom asks you to date both of them? and Nyan is just "oh yeah i think that's fine" right after she does a big woobie reveal that you're her first love and its all so romantic?

And THEN nyan is just suddenly super into the idea of a fucking threesome with her own mom? Holy shit where did that come from, it's not even a "oh wow she's actually super kinky under the innocent exterior" there is NO hinting that Nyan is anything but a pure sweet snowflake until suddenly HELL YEAH ME AND MOMMY IN KITTY FETISHWEAR BANG US BOTH HOMESLICE

Ya see kid, your first mistake was taking this crap seriously. I lost all respect for the story, and subsequently Inno's writing ability, after getting to the end of the story content. Shit makes negative sense with how the weird world domination plot is happening. But, I can't fault someone for expecting writing competency out of their story based porn game. There exists enough ones with good writing to know quality when you see it.

 

[Scapdra1]

Ya know, with the recent drops in quality of writing recently I'm starting to suspect that Inno had a ghost writer for the main story in the the beginning who left. And because they left, Inno is just floundering around with no clue on how to finish the story or write decent side quests.

 

[tehlemon]

Yep. You can build the entirety of the game from the public repo. The license terms likely wouldn't qualify as open source, but from what I can tell it's close enough that it could be a good foundation for a spin-off project.

If Inno keeps anything to themselves, it's probably a private development repo that's a few steps ahead of the public one. It seems like they batch a bunch of changes and then push them all into the public repo en masse (at least, I hope that's how they do it).

The license isn't open source, but you're able to use her work as long as its not for profit. Just gotta make sure you're very clear that what you're doing is not associated with the game. Normal stuff.

That's solely due to the way the game engine is designed. Java is an incredibly popular and capable language/VM (same with .NET), but if the programmer doesn't have a decent handle on memory management and data structures it's not going to end well. High level languages are easy to get into, but when you're dealing with anything with this level of complexity things can get ugly if you don't have a grasp of some low-level concepts.

And hey, it could have been worse: they could have tried writing it in C/C++.

The game I'm working on is being written in .net. Mostly because it's what I use most. I'm too lazy to switch back to C++ lol

That said, Lilith's Throne has some serious memory issues. Out of curiosity, I told my game to skip forward 500 days. Came back and it was using 5GB of memory. And after closing the game, Java wouldn't release the memory.

I'm not actually sure what the game is tracking that doesn't have a limit before it culls old data, so I have no idea how I hit that much memory usage only spamming the skip 12 hours button. I have to imagine something isn't being deconstructed properly, or something.

That said, this is a fucking text adventure game. It's not that complex.

Honestly what gets me on the nyan stuff is like, the whole time we get it shoved into our faces Nyan is a shy uwu introvert, very moe, very cute, very pure, etc. Then we meet her mom who's some bigshot schoomzer maven, okay sure its a yin yang thing of mother and daughter.

But then like, her mom asks you to date both of them? and Nyan is just "oh yeah i think that's fine" right after she does a big woobie reveal that you're her first love and its all so romantic?

And THEN nyan is just suddenly super into the idea of a fucking threesome with her own mom? Holy shit where did that come from, it's not even a "oh wow she's actually super kinky under the innocent exterior" there is NO hinting that Nyan is anything but a pure sweet snowflake until suddenly HELL YEAH ME AND MOMMY IN KITTY FETISHWEAR BANG US BOTH HOMESLICE

Everything involving Nyan's mom annoys the fuck out of me. It's just really badly handled. The whole thing feels like a railroaded narrative following someone's personal fantasy. There's very limited player agency or options involved within the story. Like someone wanted a mother/daughter pair using the most obvious tropes they could, and they had already decided what the PLAYER CHARACTER should be like, and if you don't follow that script the whole thing doesn't make sense.

The introduction to Nyan's mother makes her seem irredeemably annoying. I can't think of any character who'd ever put up with her that wasn't perfectly trying to fit into the stupid cliche Inno wrote it for. And then she just randomly like "hey, good work making my daughter orgasm. Why don't you tell me about yourself. Oh shit, I guess I love you too, want to have a threesome? Don't worry, she'll be into it if I tell her to be."

Also, apparently somewhere along the way Inno forgot that she could assign characters fetishes. Like, maybe toss the incest fetish on Nyan if she's going to be immediately cool with fucking her mom.

I get it, most people are pretty damn open about sex in this world. Aside from the mother being badly written, nothing that happens would be outside of the realm of possibility in the world. There's just absolutely no way I could ever see myself liking the character based on how she behaves in the introduction.

And the worst part is I'd actually be into it, if it was decently written.

Edit: After re-reading my post I want to be clear about something quick. Tropes are not a bad thing. I like tropes. Tropes are simply common themes or elements that make it easier to tell a familiar story. In a game like this, you should absolutely being using common tropes. The problem is badly done tropes. Nyan's mom is a badly done trope.

Edit 2: I was wrong. The hotfix version does give them both the incest fetish.

 

[redcynic]

You know what the best part is? I don't think Nyan has the incest fetish UNTIL you get into the 3somes. She definitely has it then.

 

[Sarkath]

But editing the core files is the key, you're saying someone could do that?

Yep, it's all there for anyone with Java knowledge and the masochist perk.

That said, Lilith's Throne has some serious memory issues. Out of curiosity, I told my game to skip forward 500 days. Came back and it was using 5GB of memory. And after closing the game, Java wouldn't release the memory.

I looked into it briefly when one of my previous saves started having major issues (like, 400-500ms to generate a turn!). I didn't check into memory use too much (one disaster at a time and stuff) but it seems like all of the CPU time went into updating all of the characters I met and/or fucked into existence.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of that time went into the garbage collector, given what happened to you.

 

[alex2011]

I've suggested it before, but Inno could simply resolve to contain content to Dominion from now and onward. It'd be a reasonable decision and it wouldn't require foregoing new areas. They'd simply have to create more areas like Submission; they would also be extensions of Dominion that would still be open to variation to suit the general atmosphere. They've pretty much shoved a world's worth of NPCs into Dominion and Submission. They could easily simplify the burden and project goals to be more sustainable and allow more freedom to be creative with side story content. It would allow them to actually make these side characters more important to the plot. Nyan's mother, for example, could be a key character involved in a quest to gain information on Lilith's diplomats, given her wealth and social influence. Helena could use her celebrity status to assist the PC by manipulating public perception of the PC via counter-propaganda, should Lilith decide to retaliate against the PC on a cultural/media level. There's plenty of plot resources already placed in this one location and they're just not being used beyond archetypal fetish fulfillment.

I'm not saying I don't want Fields to come along, though. I'm saying that Fields could be introduced in a different way. It could be a new subsection of Dominion, like with the Harpy Nests. They were on the right track with that, imo, and I think scaling down the ambition would probably ease things on both ends of this problem.

That doesn't solve the main issue in this scenario, which is that pesky NPC cap. Moving content or redesigning areas won't change how much goes into it nor will it raise how many NPCs the game can handle without offing itself, quite literally in some cases.

I think you need to hold off on these bug fixes and finally come out with some, oh I don't know, new gameplay features! Jesus Christ I have never seen a game, pornographic or otherwise, that is updated so frequently but has so little content.

Bug fixes are actually important, unlike romance reworks, so I'm going to have to disagree on that one.

I think Inno ought to spread some Dominion content out over the map. As the tutorial area, Dominion should only have basic content anyway, to encourage the player to explore and find new stuff. I think Natalya, Kay, the Rat Warrens, and the Bat Caves can probably transplanted to other locations without too much fuss, and perhaps some of the extraneous features, like the promised property management, can be moved to other areas, as well. That way there'll be less to do in filling out the map and Dominion will be less content-heavy.

This doesn't solve the NPC limit, but it does solve another huge issue, the content bloat in Dominion already. It would lower the expectations players who don't know any better gain from Dominion for the rest of the game to a more reasonable level. Right now, the expectation it is likely to generate is ridiculously high, even for a large team full of experienced game developers.

Honestly what gets me on the nyan stuff is like, the whole time we get it shoved into our faces Nyan is a shy uwu introvert, very moe, very cute, very pure, etc. Then we meet her mom who's some bigshot schoomzer maven, okay sure its a yin yang thing of mother and daughter.

But then like, her mom asks you to date both of them? and Nyan is just "oh yeah i think that's fine" right after she does a big woobie reveal that you're her first love and its all so romantic?

And THEN nyan is just suddenly super into the idea of a fucking threesome with her own mom? Holy shit where did that come from, it's not even a "oh wow she's actually super kinky under the innocent exterior" there is NO hinting that Nyan is anything but a pure sweet snowflake until suddenly HELL YEAH ME AND MOMMY IN KITTY FETISHWEAR BANG US BOTH HOMESLICE

The whole thing is freaking ridiculous as it is now. If Inno insists this atrocity stays in the game, it at least needs to be gutted and redone in a more competent manner. The writing is the worst I have ever seen, even counting my own writing when I first started AND any and all non-English speaking developers. I am not kidding on this and I am not trying to be mean in this statement, it honestly is the worst thing I have ever read WITHOUT even including who wrote it and what characters are involved along with the bias that comes with those.

Content-heavy? Most tiles in Dominion are empty. You could easily cram a hundred times more content into the current map and it would still be far from full. I don't understand why people want to spread content across a large overworld map. It's going to take a boatload of clicking to cross all those empty tiles to get to where you're going the first time, and every time after that you're just going to fast travel. What's the benefit? The last thing I want is for LT to become another Daggerfall.

No, you cannot, or do you want the game to crash the second you try to load a fully played save? You are overestimating what the current code is capable of handling, it needs a major overhaul or this game isn't going much further before all content production is forced to halt to keep the game playable.

The majority of tiles being empty is a GOOD thing right now. People have tried to populate every tile in Dominion and it caused major performance reduction and crashes.

Why do we want to spread the content? So the rest of the world, literally nine full areas plus any settlements like Dominion within those areas, aren't almost completely empty.

This is a large scale open world RPG with sandbox elements, you are GOING to be doing a lot of clicking to get places, that's part of how this type of game works using the travel mechanics it does.

Yep, it's all there for anyone with Java knowledge and the masochist perk.



I looked into it briefly when one of my previous saves started having major issues (like, 400-500ms to generate a turn!). I didn't check into memory use too much (one disaster at a time and stuff) but it seems like all of the CPU time went into updating all of the characters I met and/or fucked into existence.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of that time went into the garbage collector, given what happened to you.

Oh good

 

[throbzombie]

Content-heavy? Most tiles in Dominion are empty. You could easily cram a hundred times more content into the current map and it would still be far from full. I don't understand why people want to spread content across a large overworld map. It's going to take a boatload of clicking to cross all those empty tiles to get to where you're going the first time, and every time after that you're just going to fast travel. What's the benefit? The last thing I want is for LT to become another Daggerfall.

Content should be spread out, not crammed into every corner of a claustrophobic map. I'm getting sick of treading the streets of steampunk-infused contemporary London, myself. And Daggerfall's big-ass map is a major plus if you ask me.

This doesn't solve the NPC limit...

My solution would be to put a limit of, say, 20 on generated NPCs. Any NPCs generated after hitting 20 won't be saved like usual and disappear after interacting with them. Offspring simply wouldn't show up so that you don't accidentally delete one of your kids.

 

[bobomb]

That doesn't solve the main issue in this scenario, which is that pesky NPC cap. Moving content or redesigning areas won't change how much goes into it nor will it raise how many NPCs the game can handle without offing itself, quite literally in some cases.


Bug fixes are actually important, unlike romance reworks, so I'm going to have to disagree on that one.


This doesn't solve the NPC limit, but it does solve another huge issue, the content bloat in Dominion already. It would lower the expectations players who don't know any better gain from Dominion for the rest of the game to a more reasonable level. Right now, the expectation it is likely to generate is ridiculously high, even for a large team full of experienced game developers.


The whole thing is freaking ridiculous as it is now. If Inno insists this atrocity stays in the game, it at least needs to be gutted and redone in a more competent manner. The writing is the worst I have ever seen, even counting my own writing when I first started AND any and all non-English speaking developers. I am not kidding on this and I am not trying to be mean in this statement, it honestly is the worst thing I have ever read WITHOUT even including who wrote it and what characters are involved along with the bias that comes with those.


No, you cannot, or do you want the game to crash the second you try to load a fully played save? You are overestimating what the current code is capable of handling, it needs a major overhaul or this game isn't going much further before all content production is forced to halt to keep the game playable.

The majority of tiles being empty is a GOOD thing right now. People have tried to populate every tile in Dominion and it caused major performance reduction and crashes.

Why do we want to spread the content? So the rest of the world, literally nine full areas plus any settlements like Dominion within those areas, aren't almost completely empty.

This is a large scale open world RPG with sandbox elements, you are GOING to be doing a lot of clicking to get places, that's part of how this type of game works using the travel mechanics it does.


Oh good

You are wrong about that.
Or old info

 

[bobomb]

 

[bobomb]

 

[bobomb]

I'm on 3.13 and I read the patch notes for 3.18 and there was more memory management stuff in that. So it is only better in latest release.

 

[Bogojisem]

Holy quadruple post.

The developer has spent half a year working on a side quest. This will never come close to being finished.

I posted this almost a year ago and it still rings true.

There's not much more to say beyond preaching to the choir. This game will never come close to being finished and it will eventually be dropped when the subscribestar bux decline. Innoxia is just wrapping up Dominion, which is meant to be one of eight(?) supposedly planned zones. It won't magically get better once the development moves on to something outside of Dominion. Even in the small possibility that they do get implemented, they will be extremely half-assed without any sort of remarkable details. Innoxia bit off more than they could chew for a first project. The question isn't if, but when Innoxia will publicly admit this.

It did turn out to be fun sandbox, though.

 

[bobomb]

Holy quadruple post.

I posted this almost a year ago and it still rings true.

There's not much more to say beyond preaching to the choir. This game will never come close to being finished and it will eventually be dropped when the subscribestar bux decline. Innoxia is just wrapping up Dominion, which is meant to be one of eight(?) supposedly planned zones. It won't magically get better once the development moves on to something outside of Dominion. Even in the small possibility that they do get implemented, they will be extremely half-assed without any sort of remarkable details. Innoxia bit off more than they could chew for a first project. The question isn't if, but when Innoxia will publicly admit this.

It did turn out to be fun sandbox, though.

You can look at my Holy quadruple post and see that a sandbox is exactly how I use it. If Inno ever starts to show more progress (Either because she listened to development advice and reorganized her implementation of the code, because she started relying more heavily on the pulls and posts from other developers and took more of a orchestration /PM role <this does seem to be happening to a degree>, or because she takes some development classes) she will get more than a dollar a month from me. If this game costs me 100 dollars in the long run it will have been worth it for the fun I have had noodling around in dominion and maybe someday elsewhere within the world.