Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[DSGMods]

I was talking about the out-of-game creation process, since reality-warping magic is well established in-universe I have no issue with appearances and cultures following different rules there.

I have no grand rationale if you're speaking to the technical aspects. I found a chart of dragon morphologies and decided to see how far I could push the framework.

Races sure are a disjointed mess though. The continuing introduction of random-ass dog breeds suggests they're intended as more of a cosmetic choice, but then you get the ones such as gryphons, yokai or dragons who grant an absurd amount of stats nothing else in the game can really compete with.

If you're referring to samoyeds, that was needed as Felicia's writer wanted her to be one so I obliged. I know there is little tolerance for more races right now, so NPC need is the only thing that will drive additions, at least from me. The early introduction of mythlogicals in this way was probably a mistake on my part, yes, but it also revealed some serious bugs.

I can only speak to the races I am responsible for, but balance-wise, I used a rather primitive point total for stats in order to scale the new races to the existing ones. It seemed to work well enough at the time, however it assigned the same utility value to all stats. I am working on a more advanced 2D table with tiers under evaluation.

 

[Sphere42]

I have no grand rationale if you're speaking to the technical aspects. I found a chart of dragon morphologies and decided to see how far I could push the framework.


If you're referring to samoyeds, that was needed as Felicia's writer wanted her to be one so I obliged. I know there is little tolerance for more races right now, so NPC need is the only thing that will drive additions, at least from me. The early introduction of mythlogicals in this way was probably a mistake on my part, yes, but it also revealed some serious bugs.

I can only speak to the races I am responsible for, but balance-wise, I used a rather primitive point total for stats in order to scale the new races to the existing ones. It seemed to work well enough at the time, however it assigned the same utility value to all stats. I am working on a more advanced 2D table with tiers under evaluation.

I wasn't criticising you specifically, at least not knowingly. Yokai are stupidly overpowered as well, as are phoenix harpies and some predator species in Dominion compared to the "typical" townsfolk.

Your third paragraph confuses me though, because stat totals are exactly what is wrong with these races. Mythologicals get between 200 and 300 stat points IIRC, some predators get over 50, some pets more like 5. Squirrels get a laughable ONE SINGLE stat point!

Enemies do need to get stronger over time, but that is what gear and levels are for. Increasing stats via races (without level scaling a homogenised budget) will lead to either railroading of player identity as every non-Yokai/dragon form becomes worthless or massive race bloat as every one of them gets mythological variants with higher stat tiers.

And currently the stat-strong races get good unique moves too. Or at least good for NPCs, alternate-loss immob is uncounterable but too slow to be worth using as the player.

 

[SquidOverlord]

hah... I give up. even with increase virility or her increase fertility (even reach 100%), still won't get pregnant.
thanks for trying to help.

Check the permissions you have set on your slaves, if you have, Initiate Sex, Sex Toy, Breeding Bitch, and/or Slave stud active the slaves will have sex with other slaves and become pregnant from them

 

[SheepPun]

I can only speak to the races I am responsible for, but balance-wise, I used a rather primitive point total for stats in order to scale the new races to the existing ones. It seemed to work well enough at the time, however it assigned the same utility value to all stats. I am working on a more advanced 2D table with tiers under evaluation.

Is this the same stat tool that's the reason why I can walk out of the mansion at the very start of the game, enter a tile next to it and then encounter a horse morph at 100+ hp who can hit for like 30 hp?

 

[Sphere42]

Is this the same stat tool that's the reason why I can walk out of the mansion at the very start of the game, enter a tile next to it and then encounter a horse morph at 100+ hp who can hit for like 30 hp?

That's the thing, most of the really overpowered mythological creatures are credited to DSG in the files but the centaurs are a "tier 2 (3?) main story" creature and the predators such as tigers seem to be random community contributions or Inno's own work. The system was broken before this particular contributor/modder got there, and their really OP races don't even spawn in the streets to my knowledge.

 

[SheepPun]

That's the thing, most of the really overpowered mythological creatures are credited to DSG in the files but the centaurs are a "tier 2 (3?) main story" creature and the predators such as tigers seem to be random community contributions or Inno's own work. The system was broken before this particular contributor/modder got there, and their really OP races don't even spawn in the streets to my knowledge.

Nod nod, makes sense.

 

[BaloneyAmone]

Is this the same stat tool that's the reason why I can walk out of the mansion at the very start of the game, enter a tile next to it and then encounter a horse morph at 100+ hp who can hit for like 30 hp?

That's due to melee weapons being super-powercrept more than anything else. Even races that don't get a flat 25% phys bonus can 100-0 you in a single turn at level 1.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

That's due to melee weapons being super-powercrept more than anything else. Even races that don't get a flat 25% phys bonus can 100-0 you in a single turn at level 1.

What did you expect?
Humans are weak, so is it really such a big surprise that at the start of the game anything can sneeze on you and you die?
I think it fits just fine.

 

[BaloneyAmone]

What did you expect?
Humans are weak, so is it really such a big surprise that at the start of the game anything can sneeze on you and you die?
I think it fits just fine.

Sure, but even a dragon can get cut down a single decrepit, lust-corrupted imp if it gets its hands on a battle axe and swings it around a few times very quickly.

 

[Sphere42]

What did you expect?
Humans are weak, so is it really such a big surprise that at the start of the game anything can sneeze on you and you die?
I think it fits just fine.

Except tigers spawn in regular alleys and gain 80 offensively useful stat points on top of NPC-strong special moves, meanwhile generic dogs actually have stats comparable to humans (doggos 10 physique 5 health lol, humans 5 physique 5 lust shielding). Alligators spawn in canals and Submission with 70 points, slimes get 100 physical shielding meanwhile rats, bats, harpies etc. are in the 10-20 point range i.e. slightly stronger than humans depending on how you value stats (the +5 physique humans get can be worth more if you hit a threshold for extra stats). Oh but lord help you if you run into a phoenix harpy with a fire weapon gaining +75% free bonus damage! But squirrels gain a single point of energy shielding, that seems fair. And the later XML additions? Capybaras get 15 points, trash pandas 53, and dragons 180 PLUS a special breath attack with 150 base damage and a guaranteed crit at >50% lust.

Basically dragons get 1-2 free full stat gear sets, a free OP weapon, AND are able to use regular gear and weapons on top of that. And human-sized squirrels are weaker than humans while spiders are quite a bit stronger.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Sure, but even a dragon can get cut down a single decrepit, lust-corrupted imp if it gets its hands on a battle axe and swings it around a few times very quickly.

Then the problem would be in the dragon not being strong enough.
Becoming op is the ultimate goal of all games, hence trying to nerf everything in the name of "balance" nobody gives a shit about is stupid. So, i say instead of nerfing things, buff things. Like that dragon. Not much of a dragon if he can keel over from a mere axe.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Except tigers spawn in regular alleys and gain 80 offensively useful stat points on top of NPC-strong special moves, meanwhile generic dogs actually have stats comparable to humans (doggos 10 physique 5 health lol, humans 5 physique 5 lust shielding). Alligators spawn in canals and Submission with 70 points, slimes get 100 physical shielding meanwhile rats, bats, harpies etc. are in the 10-20 point range i.e. slightly stronger than humans depending on how you value stats (the +5 physique humans get can be worth more if you hit a threshold for extra stats). Oh but lord help you if you run into a phoenix harpy with a fire weapon gaining +75% free bonus damage! But squirrels gain a single point of energy shielding, that seems fair. And the later XML additions? Capybaras get 15 points, trash pandas 53, and dragons 180 PLUS a special breath attack with 150 base damage and a guaranteed crit at >50% lust.

Basically dragons get 1-2 free full stat gear sets, a free OP weapon, AND are able to use regular gear and weapons on top of that. And human-sized squirrels are weaker than humans while spiders are quite a bit stronger.

Not everything is supposed to be equal, i think its obvious.
In fact, its common.
Also that special breath attack is actually shit, a good ol' molotov is better than that crap which also costs 3 ap to use ONCE. Using plain ol' fireballs is far superior to using that fire breath.

 

[Sphere42]

Then the problem would be in the dragon not being strong enough.
Becoming op is the ultimate goal of all games, hence trying to nerf everything in the name of "balance" nobody gives a shit about is stupid. So, i say instead of nerfing things, buff things. Like that dragon. Not much of a dragon if he can keel over from a mere axe.

These are human-sized (give or take 50%) dragon-morphs not Smaug or Deathwing. A cephalopod or an arthropod of that size would collapse and suffocate, a bird or winged lizard would have great difficulty flying even with a skinny human body and a cow or horse wouldn't have the imposing mass or strength.

Therefore it is safe to assume that almost all attributes stem from magic and can freely be adjusted to suit gameplay needs so long as they follow the theme of the creature.

Not everything is supposed to be equal, i think that's plain enough.
In fact, it's common.
Also that special breath attack is actually shit, a good ol' molotov is better than that crap which also costs 3 points to use ONCE. Using plain ol' fireballs is far superior to using that fire breath.

That defeats the point of player transformations then as I already lamented earlier. Just turn yourself into a dragon day 1 and faceroll. No creativity, no unique identity, get punished for wanting exotic non-dragon sex scenes.

And yes the rest of the combat system is broken. The dragon breath is very strong on NPCs because their gear sucks and so do their move choices, whether or not it's good on the player depends on how much effort you put into making a broken character. But oneshotting anything in Dominion+Submission without quest gear is damn strong compared to +15% poison damage which doesn't even work on DoT poisons.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

That defeats the point of player transformations then as I already lamented earlier. Just turn yourself into a dragon day 1 and faceroll. No creativity, no unique identity, get punished for wanting exotic non-dragon sex scenes.

If that's the problem then simply divide the transformations into tiers, divide areas of the game into tiers, and then match them based on the difficulty of the area or something like that.
Thus, draconic tier transformations should be available in say... that desert town which has volcano near it.
Also to be op in this game going dragon is not mandatory at all so it's not actually as bad as you make it seem.

The dragon breath is very strong on NPCs

It's not strong at all, it's pure ass and it costs 3 ap to use which makes it into an even bigger ass.
Any attack that uses more than 1 ap is ass.
My "Teleport Scythe" build leaves that breath in utter dust.

Of course, i'm not saying that the game is fair and balanced, but it really doesn't have to be.
I mean, of course it would be more fun if the game was more challenging?
But eh.. i wouldn't shed croc tears over it not being much of a challenge either.

If it was up to me i'd also delete all those "difficulties" you can switch to and make one global mandatory difficulty for which i'd balance the whole game. But whatever, 'tis not up to us anyway.

 

[Sphere42]

If that's the problem then simply divide the transformations into tiers, divide areas of the game into tiers, and then match them based on the difficulty of the area or something like that.
Thus, draconic tier transformations should be available in say... that desert town which has volcano near it.

Then you just get forced into a new mandatory form each tier. What if you want to stay a fennec? Non-porn games do RPG progression and combat way better, sex and character customisation need to come first.

It's not strong at all, it's pure ass and it costs 3 ap to use which makes it into an even bigger ass.
ANy attack that uses more than 1 ap is ass.
My "Teleport Scythe" build leaves that breath in utter dust.

I meant used BY enemies, because none of them use anything remotely resembling a competent build and there is nothing to create skill combos such as that in the AI either. If they RNG into the breath you get chunked for 200 or so, if they don't you'll probably get Teased for 10, Blocked for 7 and stabbed/shot for 30-50 (or punched for 10 lol).

3 AP moves could be viable, for example by having easier crit conditions, AoE, integrated defence/buffs, and a >3x dmg modifier of course. Only the examples of that already in the game suck.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Then you just get forced into a new mandatory form each tier. What if you want to stay a fennec? Non-porn games do RPG progression and combat way better, sex and character customisation need to come first.

Look, nobody forces you into anything.
If you wanna go dragon? Go dragon.
If you wanna be fennec or whatever? Be that then.
There are tons of ways to make your character powerful in this game so race switch is not mandatory.
BUT, some races ARE superior to all others in terms of power, and that is completely fine.
The way i see it you have a problem not being as powerful as dragons are while being your favorite race.
But well my dude, that's how it works simply because few things are actually equal.
Just look at Elder Lilin, you want your fennecs to be their equal too?

I meant used BY enemies, because none of them use anything remotely resembling a competent build and there is nothing to create skill combos such as that in the AI either. If they RNG into the breath you get chunked for 200 or so, if they don't you'll probably get Teased for 10, Blocked for 7 and stabbed/shot for 30-50 (or punched for 10 lol).

Yes right, i noticed this simply from observing my own elemental during combat.
She doesn't have any combat AI at all, just using everything you put into her skill bar at total random.
Sure, this needs work. Some combat AI for npc's would be pretty great.
It doesn't even have to be very good, just at least somewhat decent.

3 AP moves could be viable, for example by having easier crit conditions, AoE, integrated defence/buffs, and a >3x dmg modifier of course. Only the examples of that already in the game suck.

I'd say if its gonna eat my entire turn then it has to be WORTH it, mere 150 damage definitely doesn't.
I think all moves that use more than 1 ap could use overhaul, maybe add some special benefits like shield penetration, it doesn't have to be pure damage buff, in fact, i'd like it more if it wasn't pure damage buff. More like special status effect maybe?
Something along those lines yup.

 

[moakami]

Is there anyway in the xml or in 'buggy' to make it so an NPC or custom built npc to be attracted to the player? I got obedience and affection high, but it still says NCP is not attracted to you and I'm not able to perform the submissive acts.

 

[PerpetuallyAmiss]

New to this game, but while the races and most things or bit wonky, I don't really mind the OP so much as I mind some having no stat or narrative niche in there perk. I beat the game and all its quest as just human, and my character concepts are all over the place. At the end of the day I as a player expect I'll prevail, whether the internal narrative for that is they got their ass beat by, boxing bunny, or deadly dragon, is mostly a matter of character concept to me. If dragons stat block was meh, it'd be underwhelming, if a bunny was monty python and prevailed its not big supprise. In the realm of balance though GUNS, have consistently hit me for 150-300 for a single ap. Often deciding if a battle is one entirely on if they nuke me. Thought teleport might be able to counter act that but it doesn't take effect til the next round.

 

[Sphere42]

The way i see it you have a problem not being as powerful as dragons are while being your favorite race.
But well my dude, that's how it works simply because few things are actually equal.

Not just "my favourite" but generally having completely arbitrary imbalances over two orders of magnitude. And it isn't needed, the game already has enough other mechanics to make NPCs challenging without restricting player/sex freedom like this.

With the higher demons I'm a little on the fence as they are central to the world's lore, but on the other hand it would probably be more interesting to give them powerful artefacts, high-level perks and extra stats in magical tattoos rather than just maxing their base stats.

maybe add some special benefits like shield penetration, it doesn't have to be pure damage buff, in fact, i'd like it more if it wasn't pure damage buff. More like special status effect maybe?
Something along those lines yup.

Funnily enough most of those racial/anatomy moves do also apply a debuff, dragon breath applies Arcane Weakness. Only debuffs are pathetically weak most of the time. And shield pen is the same as bonus dmg with the current mechanics, unless you meant armour shred which benefits later attacks as well.

Is there anyway in the xml or in 'buggy' to make it so an NPC or custom built npc to be attracted to the player? I got obedience and affection high, but it still says NCP is not attracted to you and I'm not able to perform the submissive acts.

That's probably the sexual orientation. Talk to Arthur about "experiments" or cheat-edit it to Androphilic.

Thought teleport might be able to counter act that but it doesn't take effect til the next round.

Yeah, the first turn is broken in general. Witch's Seal lets you permastun 3 targets if you survive 1 turn each, Teleport makes you almost unkillable after turn 1, any attack with high burst damage will just end the fight outright.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

And it isn't needed

Ultimately it's not for you or me to decide what's needed in this game.
If they want to balance racial benefits they will have a lot of work on their hands, deciding which creature should be more or less powerful than which creature won't exactly be a cake-walk.

Maybe they could start by separating races into tiers.
Like humans, half-humans, and the like would be in the lowest-tier creature pool, and dragons/lilin would be in the high-tier creature pool, and stuff like elder lilin would be in the super-tier creature pool.
Separating them this way would make things a bit less chaotic, i think.

They could also make races purely cosmetic to avoid all that pain in the ass, but that would definitely make the game a bit more boring.

Only debuffs are pathetically weak most of the time.

Agree with that, at present whatever status effects there are i generally found them to not be worth the trouble.

And shield pen is the same as bonus dmg with the current mechanics

Well, combat is always about inflicting damage.
It's how you go about doing so, that separates boring combat from fun combat.
Sure they could just beef flat numbers but that would definitely be the boring solution, and the combat in this game is already pretty dull as is.
Well, i think i'm not being paid enough to actually consider seriously how they could improve it so whatever.