Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]
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Welcome to the Lilith's Throne thread. You're in good company.
Don't worry, eventually you'll work your way through the six stages of grief and end up on last, rarely spoken about step. Laughter.
I really want to laugh right now. I'm just currently very frustrated right now with trying to play it. I want to give this game a chance, but the problems are making it hard to.
Has anyone figured out how to change the human height? I found all of the other race's settings, but I cant find the humans
- Apr 14, 2021
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Well, basically don't pop too many kids in this game and you'll be fine... more or less.
Except the fact that I haven't popped any at all, yet I still run into a number of problems in the game. Like I said, the game runs like ass.Well, basically don't pop too many kids in this game and you'll be fine... more or less.
Yeah, that's because the game runs like ass.
It's a problem with how the game runs. Which is like ass.
There's not really a way around it other than having a computer that can brute force it, and keeping as few NPCs spawned into the world as possible. It's been like, four years of complaining about these issues, including people profiling the game and figuring exactly what the issue is, but nothing has changed. So that's probably just going to be the best advice until added content includes too many NPCs and makes the game completely unplayable.
Which is where you might be, sorry.
Like, even if I put my normal cynical, pesimisitic persona on hold, there's not really a solution I can give you. Sorry.
Fork the repo and fix it? At the pace development is going (I would call it "glacial" but that's discrediting global warming at this point) the branch would only need to be slightly rebased once or twice a year at most. And this site being what it is the lack of Open Source licence doesn't really matter either.
Sure would be funny if a pirate forum ended up developing a better game than the actual dev, not that we can be bothered to do so let alone agree on anything beyond performance boosts
- Apr 14, 2021
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People have fixed parts of it, but I'm not getting into the complete redesign that would be required to fix this one. A few of the biggest performance improvements came from these discussions. But I'm definitely not touching it while Inno is constantly taking weeks off and this game is supposed to be her full time job. I'm not going to support her in that way. If she starts taking the project seriously, maybe I'll consider it. But even then, I'm probably not touching this one. It's a major design issue that's going to take a lot of work to fix, and I just don't think I'm going to do that for free.Fork the repo and fix it? At the pace development is going (I would call it "glacial" but that's discrediting global warming at this point) the branch would only need to be slightly rebased once or twice a year at most. And this site being what it is the lack of Open Source licence doesn't really matter either.
Sure would be funny if a pirate forum ended up developing a better game than the actual dev, not that we can be bothered to do so let alone agree on anything beyond performance boosts
But hey, I got sick of seeing people say "bla bla bla make your own game then" and started making my own game. Which is more reason why I'm not going to fix a lazy developer's work for free.
Ah sorry, didn't mean to point at you specifically. The way you phrased it made it sound like most of the lag would be remedied with some trivial fix such as "swap these two function calls" or "check NPC is in the active tile before updating". But I guess those parts were donated to Inno already then.
The first Chuuni duel is a better "romance quest" than the content actually logged as such...I think everyone agrees that we need more Meraxis.
- Mar 3, 2021
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Humans are one of the "internal" races in the game that don't have their information kept as XMLs and are built into the game itself, meaning you'll have to mod the game via forking the public build of the game on github in order to alter their height (or any other property).
- Sep 8, 2019
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Well, that's not entirely out of the question. I was able to cut the save time in half with a
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.I also have
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that defers status updates. I'm not entirely happy with that specific implementation, but it was a
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proof of concept at least. It doesn't help with LT's rampant memory consumption. That's a completely separate can of worms.I need to get back to that at some point. The two biggest problems I have is that I have a lot of other projects I've been working on, and every time I go back to Java 8 I find myself missing modern C++/C#.
I think the memory abuse needs to be addressed before anything else will have a meaningful impact. And like, before too much longer. It only compounds upon itself with each content update. But fuck that'd be a lot of work. I still don't know how you'd do it without some major redesigns. Exporting racial data to XML took three and a half months. Fixing this could take a year.Well, that's not entirely out of the question. I was able to cut the save time in half with aYou must be registered to see the links.
I also haveYou must be registered to see the linksthat defers status updates. I'm not entirely happy with that specific implementation, but it was aYou must be registered to see the linksproof of concept at least. It doesn't help with LT's rampant memory consumption. That's a completely separate can of worms.
I need to get back to that at some point. The two biggest problems I have is that I have a lot of other projects I've been working on, and every time I go back to Java 8 I find myself missing modern C++/C#.
And you have the constant debate of content vs system reworks. If Inno was treating this like a full time job it might have a chance, but with her taking multiple months off along side barely getting content out when she is working, there's no chance that both goals are going to be possible. And if you don't have content, you lose the audience. But adding more content is bound to hit an upper limit to what the game engine can handle.
My last play through where I actually let myself engage with the sim side of things was using 3gb of memory within like 20 in-game days. It honestly breaks my brain that a text game with minimal assets is using that kind of memory. Like, in one of my prototypes I can load 1000 NPCs with similar functional levels of customization, spread across a 1000x1000 square map, and I'm not touching that kind of memory. And even with each of them having their own goals and proper pathfinding you can still move around without the kind of delays I was getting on that last LT play through. How the fuck is LT performing this badly on modern hardware.
The most likely answer is that this game outgrew its initial scope years ago. When it first started, little errors due to poor coding decisions and those ideal for a smaller scope of game had little to no impact on performance. Fast forward to now... and we have a Java based porn game that looks like CoC but somehow is as resource intensive as Crysis.
A complete system overhaul was due long before we got the errors we are seeing to day, and I'd be welling to bet money that many of the issues plaguing Inno are a direct result of her trying to fit her additions to the next update without breaking EVERYTHING. I can hardly call myself a programmer since I really haven't done jack shit in that area for a long while, but what we are seeing now reeks of a downward spiral where longstanding problems with the foundation of the code is creating problems with adding new features, which in turns adds even more problems that need to be fit into the sprawling mess, creating even more problems, etc, etc.
I hate to say it, but as necessary as it is, the odds of Inno buckling down and fixing the foundations her entire game is built on are nonexistent. The game damn well could use a complete system overhaul, but doing so would require a complete rework of several major features implemented in batches, each of which would take an immense amount of time with little in the way of *new* content to show. So yeah... between all flash and no substance or all substance and no flash, I think we all know what kind of work Inno has in mind for the immediate future.
- Apr 14, 2021
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Work?
By the looks of things she has only vacations in mind.
- Sep 8, 2019
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In all fairness, a lot of that seems more likely to be tied into the way the JRE handles memory allocations. I don't have a huge amount of experience with it, but from what I've seen over the years it seems to have more of a tendency to exhaust its heap before garbage collecting, whereas .NET's GC fires off more often and keeps the process's memory allocation more stable. This makes sense, as the JRE is all about limiting the heap size to a particular block on startup, while the only limit to the CLR's available heap size is the maximum process size (2GB on x86, effectively unlimited on x64).
I use a number of Java-based tools (I use the JetBrains IDEs extensively, used to use dbeaver/SoapUI, and had the "pleasure" of administering self-contained JIRA and Bitbucket Server instances), as well as play unhealthy amounts of Minecraft when the mood strikes, and they all seem to follow the trend of allocating as much memory as they can before doing something about it.
That's not to say that LT is perfect at managing memory, because it definitely isn't. LT slings around temporary collections like they're going out of style, so it's no wonder it fills up the heap quickly. I suspect that the performance improvements for most systems are more likely to involve simply allowing the JRE to call the GC less often. If LT were truly filling the heap and running the JRE out of memory, the application would be unceremoniously killed with an OutOfMemoryError exception. I haven't run into that even during my most brutal stress testing.
At some point I'd like to do some more in-depth heap analysis to see what's really going on. I'm currently stuck without my Linux dev box, and that might be a fun first project for its replacement.
Edit: It's worth reiterating that this is purely anecdotal, and that I have far more practical/technical experience with .NET. I did try to look up some information, but the history of Java's garbage collector is a bit muddied by the fact that different JREs can have different GC strategies, and that LT is still using Java 8 (no thanks to Oracle still recommending it for general use).
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This isn't up for debate, Inno WILL have to overhaul the entire backbone of her game if she wishes to add just 1/3 of the content she planned originally. Cutting content under the pretense it will make things more manageable isn't going to fix anything long-term if she's just going to get side-tracked anyway and add even more bloat afterwards. Planning ahead and taking preemptive measures is key in projects like these.
Free-form in the sense you do whatever, whenever, doesn't really work here. We may be critical but in truth Inno doesn't really have anyone keeping her in check, demanding results, and making sure the project actually moves forward in a healthy way. Her Patreons are far too forgiving and lenient with the way things are going, thus perpetuating her vices and malpractices. The difference is in the mentality; a donor vs an investor. The latter expects something in return for their money and will keep tabs on progress and results, as well as chime in with criticism if needed. Donors believe they shouldn't be critical or demanding because they are acting purely on good-will and expect little to nothing in return.
She's stuck between a rock and a hard place; she doesn't have the will/courage to overhaul the entire game so she just trims the fat along the way and hopes it will be enough to keep the project going. It will be a soul-draining up-hill battle until she either collapses of exhaustion and quits, or decides to do what needs to be done to save the game long-term (and her sanity).
Free-form in the sense you do whatever, whenever, doesn't really work here. We may be critical but in truth Inno doesn't really have anyone keeping her in check, demanding results, and making sure the project actually moves forward in a healthy way. Her Patreons are far too forgiving and lenient with the way things are going, thus perpetuating her vices and malpractices. The difference is in the mentality; a donor vs an investor. The latter expects something in return for their money and will keep tabs on progress and results, as well as chime in with criticism if needed. Donors believe they shouldn't be critical or demanding because they are acting purely on good-will and expect little to nothing in return.
She's stuck between a rock and a hard place; she doesn't have the will/courage to overhaul the entire game so she just trims the fat along the way and hopes it will be enough to keep the project going. It will be a soul-draining up-hill battle until she either collapses of exhaustion and quits, or decides to do what needs to be done to save the game long-term (and her sanity).
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guys ı have question what is the test ı dont understand. my main quest is test in the lab the first quest. ı dont know what is that ım doing but dont know what it is goin to effect in my game after playing