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IvoryOwl

Active Member
Mar 29, 2017
761
1,410
seems like i won't get any actual help or even ppls interested in that function here..........
Most people around here are neither programmers nor interested in learning code. What's even more, we're not dealing with basic Ren'Py engine, we're dealing with a messy, homebrew version of Java and the entry-bar required to code/mod the game properly, without it holding your hands (aka modding templates), requires you to have some programming knowledge beforehand and a lot of patience.

You want everything simplified to the point it all just works with a single click from an in-game menu. I'm not saying I dislike the idea but given this game's history (and the dev we're dealing with) you're asking for a lot. Inno has been shirking her responsibility to the game for a long time now, with delays after delays, excuses after excuses, always getting sidetracked and procrastinating like hell. Modders sometimes do more than she does and they do it for free...

You want something like this done in a timely fashion, you either find someone to do it for you or you do it yourself. No other way around it.
 
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Harueko

Newbie
Nov 3, 2019
36
7
You want everything simplified to the point it all just works with a single click from an in-game menu
by structure yes...
i want "buggy" mode transform function extend to any npc on tile....
that's it... function is there already...
it just need be extended to any char...
 

Syliar

Member
Jul 21, 2017
168
176
I think that's what they were trying to do with their posts here.
As one of the few people who actually have modded the source code, good luck with that. It's uncommented hell, with very random cross coding across files in the jar that is hell to hunt down the references for, as some are effectively invisible until you find them as they don't mention the other thing they change, and it took years of campaigning to get as much externalised as there currently is.
 

Plumpunikitty

Member
May 7, 2019
154
248
I want editing "on the fly" without any shenanigans outside of the game
and by just open one simple menu in 1 button press....
so any kind of editions besides that is not what i expect
.........
seems like i won't get any actual help or even ppls interested in that function here..........
sad.........:cry:
Well I'm n̶o̶t̶ sorry, but beggars can't be choosers.
Look if you don't like my solution, that's fine. And like many user said before me, user on this thread are unable and/or unwillingly to shift through Innoxia's code and build a fork for you. If you want, you could go in the game's official Discord, ask the modding scene there and maybe someone would get back to you.
 

Harueko

Newbie
Nov 3, 2019
36
7
As one of the few people who actually have modded the source code, good luck with that. It's uncommented hell, with very random cross coding across files in the jar that is hell to hunt down the references for, as some are effectively invisible until you find them as they don't mention the other thing they change, and it took years of campaigning to get as much externalised as there currently is.
that's remind me of 943 AbstractItemEffectType files...:poop::poop::poop::KEK::KEK::KEK:
or any other 20+ .class files with same names....
nightmare
..........
from there question is..... HOW that was coded..
by human being......
why turning code in such a mess...........
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
533
909
from there question is..... HOW that was coded..
by human being......
why turning code in such a mess...........
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
It's easy:
  1. Forget everything you ever learned about coding and application design.
  2. Come up with an extremely ambitious idea for a smutty game.
  3. Develop your ambitious game idea while simultaneously learning Java/JavaFX and the basics of object-oriented programming.
  4. If you run into a snag, never ever stop to consider that there might be an easier or more elegant way to accomplish your goal. Just continue to press forward no matter what.
Obviously I don't know with absolute certainty that the above is how Lilith's Throne was made, but it definitely has all the hallmarks of babby's first program.

Just going to throw this bit of insanity out there:

Code:
    2296 text files.
    2184 unique files.
     153 files ignored.

github.com/AlDanial/cloc v 1.92  T=4.57 s (477.4 files/s, 135941.0 lines/s)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Language                     files          blank        comment           code
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Java                           916          73806          23815         490004
SVG                           1257              0             10          26803
CSS                             10            586            167           6614
FXML                             1              2              0             63
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUM:                          2184          74394          23992         523484
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lines of code are a poor measure of productivity, but they can be a mighty good measurement of bloat and poor practices (it's also worth noting that this doesn't include any of the game logic that was split off into XMLs).
 
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Reactions: Harueko

Anjimito

Newbie
Nov 19, 2018
25
22
Hey, I've got another question I hope you guys could answer.

Is it possible to force slaves to interact sexually in a manner that's not appealing to one of them? Like forcing an androphilic female to have sex with another female?

I know it's possible to mash them using positioning but I wonder if it's possible to make one slave rape another or to force interactions they're uncomfortable with outright. If there's a mod for that I'd be happy to learn of its existence.
 

Anon2579

Newbie
Jul 29, 2020
70
23
I think its technically possible (If one has a rape fetish and the other has a different sexual orientation...) but its clunky as F atm (Unless you hop them up on Mind altering substances/Shroom/Cum or Milk with that trait-Then use the mental influence action you get in the first menu)...
 

Anjimito

Newbie
Nov 19, 2018
25
22
I think its technically possible (If one has a rape fetish and the other has a different sexual orientation...) but its clunky as F atm (Unless you hop them up on Mind altering substances/Shroom/Cum or Milk with that trait-Then use the mental influence action you get in the first menu)...
Alright, thanks for the suggestion but I'm not seeing the mental influence option anywhere, could you please explain how to access it?
 

Tattletale21

Member
Jan 26, 2020
360
452
As one of the few people who actually have modded the source code, good luck with that. It's uncommented hell, with very random cross coding across files in the jar that is hell to hunt down the references for, as some are effectively invisible until you find them as they don't mention the other thing they change, and it took years of campaigning to get as much externalised as there currently is.
fully agree with you. i took one look at the fucking catastrophe that is that code and had a migraine for three days straight afterwards. i genuinely had to pop headache tablets every four hours or i'd be debilitated, and i'm not even being dramatic here.


having it as "togglable" function or mod is all what i want........
seriously... i just like play games in as much "my"way as i can(cheats. mods. debug functions. anything that could make process easier).. and transform by one menu for every character is fits my view in such kind of game
as current transformation system is just overcomplicated big mess.. in game with magic don't have transform spells/shops or any other easy methods(by menu)....... 0 LOGIC....
also game code is a mess...
to that random guy who wants people to do a mod for him; stop. if it hasn't been done yet then it won't be done ever, because it's either impossible or so hard the only reasonable way for it to get done is to pay someone to do it. i believe someone already mentioned how fucked the code is? allow me to repeat that; the code is fucked beyond all recognisable terms of the word 'functional'. how the game fucking runs is beyond me at this point. it's not that people won't do it, because i bet some people would be interested in such a thing -it's more likely that they can't. you said it yourself; the code is a mess. the difficulty it takes other people just to make mods that aren't generic fantasy races or the like is genuinely a level of effort that they should be paid for.

in short, to copy IvoryOwl: if you want it done, either find someone to do it for you or do it yourself. and seeing as how people most likely wont touch this spaghetti hell the code is without payment of some sort, either pay them to do it or learn coding to do it yourself.
 

BlidBear

Newbie
Jun 15, 2018
58
78
I think the best thing we can do is find a developer that is actually willing to do a game like this right (With actually good modding support for custom species, custom kinks, good comanion support & lots of customization) and properly fund them; If we keep waiting for this to be done by this woman, it will be at least a decade before we have a good beta for this game.
 

Harueko

Newbie
Nov 3, 2019
36
7
or do it yourself.
where to start?
i want do it but... have no idea how to do it... and where to dig...
as it feels like it be just 1 line of code to change.. but i even wasn't able to find even enslaving enchant transform block function to mod it to be not block but instead full menu unlock for at least transform slaves
............
I think the best thing we can do is find a developer that is actually willing to do a game like this
i think better ask someone to just carbon copy revrite of throne with understandable code than "doing another game" as it won't be "throne" if it be "game like that but not 100% that"
 

anubis1970

Engaged Member
Mar 1, 2018
2,152
2,429
i think better ask someone to just carbon copy revrite of throne with understandable code than "doing another game" as it won't be "throne" if it be "game like that but not 100% that"
A 'carbon copy' with understandable code, would be a complete rewrite. And while a new game may not be LT there's a very good chance with the proper framework that it would be better.
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
533
909
Warning: Sarkath ramble mode engaged (oh hush, I haven't done this in a while)!

I think the best thing we can do is find a developer that is actually willing to do a game like this right (With actually good modding support for custom species, custom kinks, good comanion support & lots of customization) and properly fund them; If we keep waiting for this to be done by this woman, it will be at least a decade before we have a good beta for this game.
The problem is that LT's design isn't really all that great from a creative perspective. This may sound odd given the depth of LT's character customization, but what it's doing really isn't all that compelling. Like, the dynamic sex system is pretty much a series of "if player has tail, allow tail-fucking," with a bunch of numbers and simple calculations to handle arousal based on a randomly generated set of interests. It's about as sterile as it gets. Think about it: when you're in the middle of a sex scene in LT, what's actually driving your enjoyment of the scene: the text on the screen or your imagination? For me it was almost exclusively the latter.

As a programmer who dabbles in writing, the idea of recreating something like that would make me feel creatively bankrupt. You're essentially playing madlibs with sex acts and when the thing that I'll charitably call an AI completely b0rks, it fucks up any sense of immersion you might have. Most of LT's actual writing is all world-building and individual character development, but you're never going to get the same level of attachment with 99% of the other characters you're going to encounter. In a game like CoC you're obviously going to get a lot of repeated scenes with random enemy encounters, but because of the unique story text I find myself more attached to the random tentacle beasts in games like that than I am with a max affection, max loyalty fox friend in LT.

You can see some attempts at proper character building in the aborted companion system. There are some unique bits of dialogue that you'll only get if you walk around with certain companions. Obviously this has the potential to get a bit overwhelming as the game develops, but there's actually a far larger problem: the fact that few people are likely to see that extra dialogue.

Limiting the companion system would have allowed players to get closer to the crafted characters in the game world. I would have loved to go globe-trotting with Brax and possibly get a little closer to that smug bastard, but all we're likely to ever get is a bunch of canned sex actions that make a relationship bar (which barely has any practical effect) go up a tiny bit. I'm not sure how much laziness played into this, but if 80% of players are just going to bring a random hyena-morph with them everywhere what's the point of developing it any further? Why would you spend hours writing meticulously crafted dialogue that almost nobody is going to see?

If the companion system were limited rather than axed you could still have your generic fuck buddies and slaves back at the manor, but could also adventure with and snuggle with your wolfy husbando. However, that wouldn't have fit in with LT's design philosophy, would it? It's proven that it wants to be a true sandbox game at all costs and removing a core feature outright is apparently more appealing than cutting back its scope. Again: creativity takes a backseat to customization.

And, really, I feel that's the core issue here. LT gives the player practically infinite freedom but often at the cost of personality and soul. I wouldn't want any part in creating a game like that and I can understand why others would be equally hesitant.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
1,563
Like, the dynamic sex system is pretty much a series of "if player has tail, allow tail-fucking," with a bunch of numbers and simple calculations to handle arousal based on a randomly generated set of interests. It's about as sterile as it gets.
It literally took me a single evening to recreate 90% of LT's sex system, with most of that time spent writing the various bits of flavor text since I'm not about to straight up plagarize a game that'll likely be my competition if I ever get around to releasing anything. And I did that while drunk as fuck and chatting with friends on discord.

Its a very simple system. And a very boring one at that.

But...

As a programmer who dabbles in writing, the idea of recreating something like that would make me feel creatively bankrupt. You're essentially playing madlibs with sex acts and when the thing that I'll charitably call an AI completely b0rks, it fucks up any sense of immersion you might have. Most of LT's actual writing is all world-building and individual character development, but you're never going to get the same level of attachment with 99% of the other characters you're going to encounter. In a game like CoC you're obviously going to get a lot of repeated scenes with random enemy encounters, but because of the unique story text I find myself more attached to the random tentacle beasts in games like that than I am with a max affection, max loyalty fox friend in LT.
...but I still see why such a basic system is useful for porn games. Writing porn is hard. Writing *a lot* of porn is really hard. And if you try and write too much porn without enjoying what you're writing, it becomes really, really unfun.

So starting with a simple system that can be throw in front of any sex scene is an easy solution to move on.

As a programmer who stopped programming professionally, but then started writing. And then wrote semi-professionally for a short while. And then started programming again... As someone who does both, sometimes the creatively bankrupt system can get you to the parts you actually want to work on. And for me that's the sim side of a game like this. I'm going to need a procedural sex system eventually, because I want to allow NPCs to interact with each other. So now that's done-ish, and I can move on to some other fun stuff.

And with this shit being properly designed, I can literally drop in a new system if I ever make one.

Which is where I think the real problem with LT lies. All this shit feels like the placeholders I've written, but they're not. Everything feels like the system I'd use before dedicating any real time to really fleshing that stuff out.

But you're not wrong, it's really hard to have character development and personality in dynamic sex scenes. I'm sort of trying to make it work by having the scenes be faster, and allowing each action to be more in depth. But I'm also adding a lot of individual content into them, which I know isn't sustainable long term unless I change something.

Snip, just cause space
I have no idea how to deal with companions. I know I want to include them in my own project, but yeah. My current plan is to just include a number of generic content for randomly generated NPCs. But I'm also leaning really heavily into NPC personality traits. I want them to really matter, and I want them to have meaningful effects on the sim side of things. A shy but perverted NPC should behave differently than a super extroverted NPC.

Which again, LT seemed like it was going to go down that route too. And then just didn't. It's like the bones are there, but they never added the flesh to any of the systems. Like, do the personality traits have anything to do with anything currently? I really don't think they do.

Game design is hard. And I really think Inno just never got out of the "that's a cool idea I should do something with" phase. And at this point I don't think she ever will.
 
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