Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Draupnir7]

We all want this project to flourish. And we all understand that Inno will not do anything while the conditions are comfortable enough. Perhaps we should do something to bring everything that is happening to the majority of subscribers?

Nah, that's far more likely to lead to a giant dogpile that makes Inno snap and take down the game. Everything's personal on the Internet, and if you're taking away some coomer's wank-bait or being cornered by a mob of them? No quarter spared. At the very least she'd retreat to that hugbox Discord.
After that it's a matter of Inno dropping copyright claims on anything remotely derivative of the original project, which only absolutely bonkers people would work on anyway because the code is a big damn mess, and who knows what the bonkers people would add or God forbid make mandatory. Even a refactor would be time and energy better spent on just making a brand new game.
No, the best we can really do is wait and see if a fire spontaneously ignites under her ass.

 

[IvoryOwl]

We all want this project to flourish. And we all understand that Inno will not do anything while the conditions are comfortable enough. Perhaps we should do something to bring everything that is happening to the majority of subscribers?

If we want this game to change we would all have to collectively subscribe and pressure Inno to get a get grip. We'd face resistance but the point is to have another voice in the crowd, other than just cuddles and back-patters. There's a chance it would attract like-minded people as well, those who are too afraid to speak their minds openly due to fear of dog-pilled on. Alternatively, we'd need someone who is relatively popular on YT to review Lilith's Throne, what's good and bad about it, to spread the word.

However, the chances of any of this happening are slim (throwing money at a failing project is a bit counter-productive, after all...) and there aren't a whole lot of YTubers who'd review a porn due to demonetization.

Nah, that's far more likely to lead to a giant dogpile that makes Inno snap and take down the game.

Honestly, my interest in this game has waned so much that at this point I couldn't careless if it crashed and burned into a big pile of ash. Some of us already believe that's what is going to happen anyway, just a matter of time. Such wasted potential...

I only peeked a few times but it looks like Discord is in the same boat as us, with 90% of posts being memes and off-topic crap. We may complain about each other but really, we're two sides of the same coin. We stick around mostly for the community and like-mindedness, not the game. I mean, new updates take anywhere between 1-2 months to release and when they do, progress tends to be trivial and all new content can be experienced in a day.

Lilith's Throne should advertise that instead; bringing a people together to chat, since that's about 90% of what you'll be doing anyway.

 

[JojotheLich]

One thing that astounds me about this game is adding a mod and the game just does NOT want to have it. For a text game, it reacts to one or two mods like Skyrim does when I add 50 of them.

Move one tile to get an encounter and the game is like

 

[PhoenixChampion]

Uh... Having Mod issues right now and I'm not sure if the problem is me or the game.

Most of the Mods I have are GURETO, but I'm only using one of them at a time but whenever I place a mod into the game it kinda just locks up whenever I click on 'New Game' or after I start loading one of my save files. The game will register my mouse going over the buttons but it'll never register me clicking them.

I've got version 0.4.4 downloaded, I've updated Java about 3 days ago for reference and this is what I'm dealing with. Am I not supposed to place Mods in the 'Mods' folder? Are the mods just too outdated to work? Or am I just dealing with the game not wanting to work?

 

[Simp Cattu]

yet again....

Thank you for your patience! Here is your monthly dose of minor-inconveniences-that-delay-the-game-for-another-month! I'm so happy that yalls' ignorance racks me with money that I don't deserve! Keep throwing sweet sweet dollars at me, and I might find enough effort to make another shitty excuse post! Cheers!

 

[tehlemon]

You have to understand that most people who stumble upon the game know nothing of its history and persistent problems. They see it as a shiny, interesting and promising new game and that's all they need. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It takes time for the problems to become apparent and in the meanwhile they've probably already thrown some money at the game.

We're in a remote corner of the internet, on a pirate website no-less, so the chances of our opinion reaching a wider population are pretty slim. Which is probably a good thing. Last thing we need is getting the website shutdown just because it got "too popular". To be fair, I feel like most people wouldn't even know about us if other places didn't "advertise" us. Every time Discord brings up the topic of F95, whether to speak good or ill, there's a chance someone curious might come looking for us, if only to investigate.

And that is why the blog comments were disabled, and not re-enabled like Inno said they would be. The fucking coward.

 

[Airell]

And that is why the blog comments were disabled, and not re-enabled like Inno said they would be. The fucking coward.

I can't call this thread toxic, you guys fans of the game are expressing your dissatisfaction, this is totally normal and understandable. That said, I feel it would be more constructive and helpful for you to do this on Innoxia's Discord too, so there's a chance for her to listen to criticisms and requests.

 

[Hongfire Survivor]

I can't call this thread toxic, you guys fans of the game are expressing your dissatisfaction, this is totally normal and understandable. That said, I feel it would be more constructive and helpful for you to do this on Innoxia's Discord too, so there's a chance for her to listen to criticisms and requests.

You get banned off the Discord for going against the hivemind

 

[Marlin Brandy]

I can't call this thread toxic, you guys fans of the game are expressing your dissatisfaction, this is totally normal and understandable. That said, I feel it would be more constructive and helpful for you to do this on Innoxia's Discord too, so there's a chance for her to listen to criticisms and requests.

that's pretty much impossible since any real constructive criticism gets instantly dogpiled if you're not powerwashing inno's ass in the same paragraph. Or you just get kicked. the echo chambers have grown too sensitive to any naysayers

 

[Airell]

You get banned off the Discord for going against the hivemind

that's pretty much impossible since any real constructive criticism gets instantly dogpiled if you're not powerwashing inno's ass in the same paragraph. Or you just get kicked. the echo chambers have grown too sensitive to any naysayers

Sorry, I don't participate in Innoxia's Discord, and my server doesn't seem to be like that so i don't quite know how it feels. I received good feedback and criticism in equal measure in general, and it helps me a lot to improve the game.

I'm not sure what that would be like, but it sounds like a fanatical cult. lol

 

[Marlin Brandy]

Sorry, I don't participate in Innoxia's Discord, and my server doesn't seem to be like that so i don't quite know how it feels. I received good feedback and criticism in equal measure in general, and it helps me a lot to improve the game.

I'm not sure what that would be like, but it sounds like a fanatical cult. lol

I don't blame her. it's easy to surround yourself with yes men and especially easy when they tell you to kick those who criticize the game, and don't give you any pressure to make progress. the comfy vibes are a great temptation.
I understand her actions, I just don't agree with them.

 

[Shorsey]

Uh... Having Mod issues right now and I'm not sure if the problem is me or the game.

Most of the Mods I have are GURETO, but I'm only using one of them at a time but whenever I place a mod into the game it kinda just locks up whenever I click on 'New Game' or after I start loading one of my save files. The game will register my mouse going over the buttons but it'll never register me clicking them.

I've got version 0.4.4 downloaded, I've updated Java about 3 days ago for reference and this is what I'm dealing with. Am I not supposed to place Mods in the 'Mods' folder? Are the mods just too outdated to work? Or am I just dealing with the game not wanting to work?

Inside the data folder is a error log, it should tell you what's wrong.

 

[tehlemon]

I can't call this thread toxic, you guys fans of the game are expressing your dissatisfaction, this is totally normal and understandable. That said, I feel it would be more constructive and helpful for you to do this on Innoxia's Discord too, so there's a chance for her to listen to criticisms and requests.

There's definitely been a few people who were outright toxic over the years. But it was never the majority. But if you're the person who's now like four months late on an update, seeing 500-1000 comments on *every* blog post laughing at the delays probably seems pretty toxic. Specially when the only other part of the community you see is discord, where they ban literally everyone who says anything negative at all.

 

[Airell]

There's definitely been a few people who were outright toxic over the years. But it was never the majority. But if you're the person who's now like four months late on an update, seeing 500-1000 comments on *every* blog post laughing at the delays probably seems pretty toxic. Specially when the only other part of the community you see is discord, where they ban literally everyone who says anything negative at all.

Nothing on someone's Discord server is done without the owner's permission. If that happens there, that's why Innoxia chose it. Every time I come to this thread I can see she feels very safe as she can reap very positive fruits from the project no matter what.

I would be very concerned about this huge amount of criticism, delays, slow development, and mockery, but I'm not in the same position as her, so I can only speculate.

 

[tehlemon]

I would be very concerned about this huge amount of criticism, delays, slow development, and mockery, but I'm not in the same position as her, so I can only speculate.

The thing is, I could never be in the same position she is. Because everything I would do is completely different than what she's done.

First, because I have a pretty successful career that I like and is doing well for me (aside from weekends like this one where I'm both on call and volunteered for a bunch of extra weekend work, so I'm pretty much staying home and playing video games and chatting online). I wouldn't quit my job and make developing a game my main focus. I'd want to keep working at a rate where its fun, where I wouldn't end up horribly burnt out like Inno clearly is with writing. And I'd still put out the same level of work lol

But also like, I just wouldn't make a lot of the same choices. I wouldn't want a discord server that I have any hand in or control of. Unofficial discord servers? Sure. Official discord servers, no way. I'd absolutely want the separation between myself and fans of my product. They're not my friends, they're my customers. They're not going to give me unbiased interactions, good or bad. And I really don't want that.

But that likely comes back to me having a healthy work life balance alongside social interaction outside of the internet. Despite the perception, I'm not terminally online. I don't need or want to rely on a fan club for my social or mental health in the way it seems she does at times.

I'd never end up in Inno situation because I'd absolutely hate it.

And then we get to the game itself... I wouldn't design a game like this. Every single method by which the game was designed is completely counter to how I think about development. And I was already aware of all the roadblocks LT keeps running into before LT ran into them. I had plans for most of these problem before I started writing code. Because you should really *design* the thing before you start *building* the thing.

LT is just the perfect storm of good timing, the rapid increase in parasocial relationships, and the super common trend of people making a single thing they like a major part of their personality.

But hey, at least Inno never has to spend their Saturday playing NMS and watching backups and updates complete for a dozen data centers around the continent. It sounds exciting; it's not. Good thing I negotiated for overtime.

 

[AH-64E]

Nothing on someone's Discord server is done without the owner's permission. If that happens there, that's why Innoxia chose it. Every time I come to this thread I can see she feels very safe as she can reap very positive fruits from the project no matter what.

I would be very concerned about this huge amount of criticism, delays, slow development, and mockery, but I'm not in the same position as her, so I can only speculate.

I believe part of the frustration is that LT is nearly peerless in regards to what it does, and how well it does it. At the end of the day, LT does a great many things very shallowly that other games focus on and yet can't do nearly as well. The problem is, over the last few years, not only has LT stagnated, it's gotten worse in some ways (proposed party member changes, for instance). And in that lengthy window of stagnation, she has raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars with nearly nothing to show for it (other than quadruped and armpit sex).

I don't follow this thread religiously, mostly just pop in when I want to learn about model trains or get a laugh. But from what I've seen, no one is ever really toxic, they're just... very annoyed.

And yes, while the owner has ownership over their personal Discord, that doesn't mean that the environment they foster is healthy for them or others, or that they actually possess any control on what happens there. It's good to have a support network when you need it, but bad to have a crutch/coddlers. Her blog before she cut off comments wasn't even negative, it was legit "oh, another delay" (which was enough to give her panic attacks). She's either incredibly unwell, sheltered, or a con artist. That's not mockery, it's an educated character assessment. If I see a worker not actually do any work for three years, doesn't matter who they are--- I and the majority of humanity would say the same regardless of who that person was.

And even if everyone here was raggin' on her nonstop, what does it matter? She'll never see it. Maybe someone from her discord will tell her "Hey, those creeps from F95 are talking shit again", console her, and it won't change a single thing. If everyone in here lauded her as a hero and genius, the game still wouldn't be getting made.

 

[PhoenixChampion]

Inside the data folder is a error log, it should tell you what's wrong.

Looked at it, that... Kinda answered nothing for me except a lot of stuff could not be found. Tried a newer mod from someone else and it worked properly, so I can at least state that... Probably a majority of Gureto's mods are outdated... Maybe.

 

[Shorsey]

Looked at it, that... Kinda answered nothing for me except a lot of stuff could not be found. Tried a newer mod from someone else and it worked properly, so I can at least state that... Probably a majority of Gureto's mods are outdated... Maybe.

Mind sharing the log?

As far as i know Gureto does only Weapons/Clothing mods. They shouldn't cause this kind of problem, even if outdated.

 

[Airell]

The thing is, I could never be in the same position she is. Because everything I would do is completely different than what she's done.

First, because I have a pretty successful career that I like and is doing well for me (aside from weekends like this one where I'm both on call and volunteered for a bunch of extra weekend work, so I'm pretty much staying home and playing video games and chatting online). I wouldn't quit my job and make developing a game my main focus. I'd want to keep working at a rate where its fun, where I wouldn't end up horribly burnt out like Inno clearly is with writing. And I'd still put out the same level of work lol

But also like, I just wouldn't make a lot of the same choices. I wouldn't want a discord server that I have any hand in or control of. Unofficial discord servers? Sure. Official discord servers, no way. I'd absolutely want the separation between myself and fans of my product. They're not my friends, they're my customers. They're not going to give me unbiased interactions, good or bad. And I really don't want that.

But that likely comes back to me having a healthy work life balance alongside social interaction outside of the internet. Despite the perception, I'm not terminally online. I don't need or want to rely on a fan club for my social or mental health in the way it seems she does at times.

I'd never end up in Inno situation because I'd absolutely hate it.

And then we get to the game itself... I wouldn't design a game like this. Every single method by which the game was designed is completely counter to how I think about development. And I was already aware of all the roadblocks LT keeps running into before LT ran into them. I had plans for most of these problem before I started writing code. Because you should really *design* the thing before you start *building* the thing.

LT is just the perfect storm of good timing, the rapid increase in parasocial relationships, and the super common trend of people making a single thing they like a major part of their personality.

But hey, at least Inno never has to spend their Saturday playing NMS and watching backups and updates complete for a dozen data centers around the continent. It sounds exciting; it's not. Good thing I negotiated for overtime.

I can almost totally agree. I can't imagine doing the same as her because I started a project out of passion, creating what I love and being able to pour it all into my game. Funding would just be the consequence of that, although I would love more than anything to be able to work on it full-time. Unite passion and profession.

Personally, I see the LT model as hell from a technical point of view. You have a countless number of fetishes and variables, and in practice, you can never fill them all. You condemn your players and fans to use their imagination. And this is especially true if the dev doesn't like to write. I feel that dev love his project is essential, as without it he will never reach his full potential.

I would never think of doing such a thing, also because doing so would make it difficult to give the game a real direction, something that is essential for development: You need to have a clear path.

The best way to lose this is to look to satisfy niches.

 

[Shorsey]

out of passion, creating what I love

According to her first posts back when she started this project she had those exact motivations. She wanted to create something like CoC, but with more freedom. And if you look at some of the earliest quests you'll notice how much more thought was put into them.
I guess back then she didn't realise how much work it would take to give this level freedom.

Personally, I see the LT model as hell from a technical point of view. You have a countless number of fetishes and variables, and in practice, you can never fill them all.

She was is a naive, young girl who couldn't see past her own feet.

You condemn your players and fans to use their imagination.

Isn't this the point of text based games? The dev provide a basis and you use your imagination to expand that.