Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Christina_of_Blacktower]

Anyone knows anything about this oaken glade restaurant?

 

[Deleted member 396062]

Anyone knows anything about this oaken glade restaurant?

It's where you take Nyan on a date

 

[ebonheart2319]

Anyone knows anything about this oaken glade restaurant?

Its a new location for the now overly complicated commission that is Nyan.
Its beside the Shopping Arcade in the center of the city, and involves SAT levels of memory retention to successfully complete.
Nyan is now a secret billionaire heiress with Mommy issues, and her mother is a literal cougar.

While going through the Nyan and Rat content, remember it took a literal year, and is the only first party content Inno has released in a year. Nyan was so important Inno delayed everything else. By a year.

 

[Carl0sDanger]

... involves SAT levels of memory retention to successfully complete.

Oh yeah. How do you actually go on the date?

I thought all you had to do was meet up on Saturday, but where? Do you have to make a reservation? If so, how?

 

[Mandoto]

For as many years as this game has been in development, it's very disappointing and bare bones. Which is a shame because these kind of text-based games are pretty much the only ones that can fulfill some of my more niche fetishes, and even then, the generic sex scenes get very old after only a few plays.

 

[anon707]

For as many years as this game has been in development, it's very disappointing and bare bones. Which is a shame because these kind of text-based games are pretty much the only ones that can fulfill some of my more niche fetishes, and even then, the generic sex scenes get very old after only a few plays.

i dont think bare bones is completely fair to call this game. its not chalk full of content, thats for sure. but in terms of character customization, there's really not many games that it can be compared to.

 

[tehlemon]

it looks suspiciously like the only reason she's not hiring people to do this is to retain control over the money.

I kind of assume that's the real answer.

I mean, she just got a three week, paid vacation. I might be making considerably more than she is, but I've only had three days off in the last 18 months. And with a majorly stressful event coming up in exactly one week, I would kill for a three week, paid, "I'm stressed about work" vacation right now.

Its a new location for the now overly complicated commission that is Nyan.
Its beside the Shopping Arcade in the center of the city, and involves SAT levels of memory retention to successfully complete.
Nyan is now a secret billionaire heiress with Mommy issues, and her mother is a literal cougar.

While going through the Nyan and Rat content, remember it took a literal year, and is the only first party content Inno has released in a year. Nyan was so important Inno delayed everything else. By a year.

God, I'm glad I'm not the only one who leaves that quest line going "this is just someone's very specific fantasy they wanted to live out." The whole quest is *so god damn railroaded*. Like, you can *only* play the exact character that the "author" wanted you to play. There's absolutely zero player agency, and the overall plot and logic just reads like shit bad fanfiction.

That said, you literally cannot fail the Nyan quiz twice. If you fail it, the next week she takes you on a date where she reminds you all the answers. And then just to add extra anti-player-agency flavor to the mix, if you actually do give the wrong answers, the game forces you to give the correct answer. Like, if you select option A, and the correct answer is C, it gives you a bullshit "You were about to say A, but then you remembered Nyan told you the answer was C. You answer C." type shit.

It's honestly, just hilariously badly written. Like, so much worse than my complaints about Helena/Scarlett's writing, and the fact that game doesn't acknowledge *any* actions you might have taken while Scarlett was a slave.

Everything about that quest line is awful. And the new NPCs added for it are so incredibly badly written that I'm actually amazed that my bar for the game's writing could go lower. Where Inno found the shovel to dig a new pit for it, I have no idea. Honestly, I only want to see the fields content because of how incredibly bad Nyan's writing was. I absolutely can't wait to see how much of a disjointed clusterfuck the fields is going to be.

Ninja edit: Just to say something nice, I was actually pleasantly surprised that the date scenes acknowledged the existence of the arcane storms. Sadly, it doesn't do anything interesting with them at all, but I was suprised it even acknowledged them.

Oh yeah. How do you actually go on the date?

I thought all you had to do was meet up on Saturday, but where? Do you have to make a reservation? If so, how?

Her house is outside of the shopping arcade, like two squares to the left. Once you take her for enough walks she'll invite you over on Friday/Saturday. Don't bother actually trying to memorize the shit she tells you while you hit her talk option. Like I said, the game literally will not let you fail the quiz twice.

 

[Sarkath]

I ended up speeding up another thing that's been annoying me for a while: the loooooong save times, particularly as you progress further into the game or do a ton of breeding. The long save times largely stem from two fairly large issues, as well as a third minor contributing factor. All of my testing was done using my stress test save on my Linux (kernel 5.11.11) box using an SSD, so disk access times should be a non-factor in my results.

Spoiler: Nerdy Shit

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

tl;dr: I brought the save times on my stress test save down to a quarter of what they were, from an average of 8.771 seconds to 2.339 seconds. After I make sure that the switch from exceptions to nulls doesn't impact anything I plan to open a PR upstream since this is a pretty safe set of changes aside from that.

Loading games is still kind of sluggish, since that mostly hinges on calculating status effects and such. One step at a time.

If anyone wants to check it out in the meantime, I shoved the changes

You must be registered to see the links

.

 

[tehlemon]

I ended up speeding up another thing that's been annoying me for a while: the loooooong save times, particularly as you progress further into the game or do a ton of breeding. The long save times largely stem from two fairly large issues, as well as a third minor contributing factor. All of my testing was done using my stress test save on my Linux (kernel 5.11.11) box using an SSD, so disk access times should be a non-factor in my results.

Spoiler: Nerdy Shit

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

tl;dr: I brought the save times on my stress test save down to a quarter of what they were, from an average of 8.771 seconds to 2.339 seconds. After I make sure that the switch from exceptions to nulls doesn't impact anything I plan to open a PR upstream since this is a pretty safe set of changes aside from that.

Loading games is still kind of sluggish, since that mostly hinges on calculating status effects and such. One step at a time.

If anyone wants to check it out in the meantime, I shoved the changes

You must be registered to see the links

.

Those seem like good examples of tools you read about being able to use to solve a straightforward problem, but not when and where you *should* use those tools for any other case. Which is my nice way of saying, that's a lot of "I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just making it up as I go with random bits I've found." AKA, StackOverflow syndrome.

 

[DSGMods]

more item bloat that absolutely no one cares about

I apologize for this unsatisfactory result. You will be glad to know I will not be submitting any more items for a long time.

 

[BaloneyAmone]

I apologize for this unsatisfactory result. You will be glad to know I will not be submitting any more items for a long time.

Oh damn, he really came to the forums.
brb, getting popcorn

 

[Sarkath]

Those seem like good examples of tools you read about being able to use to solve a straightforward problem, but not when and where you *should* use those tools for any other case. Which is my nice way of saying, that's a lot of "I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just making it up as I go with random bits I've found." AKA, StackOverflow syndrome.

To be fair, you do have to have some rough knowledge about how these things actually work (or painful past experience, as is my case) to know when it's appropriate to use stuff like this or avoid it. This stuff can sort of feel like magic until you tear down the walls and realize that the performance issue you've been chasing for the past month were simply due to how you implemented everything.

The main reason I was able to find and fix this so quickly is because I knew what to look for and how to look for it. Profiling isn't something that readily comes up when you're learning to program, and high-level languages do tend to mask a lot of implementation details, leading to a ton of very subtle traps for people to fall into. Don't get me wrong, Lilith's Throne does have many code issues to tackle, but this is one of those cases where it's 95% of the way there and just needed a little nudge to set it straight.

Honestly, all of this is one of the reasons why I feel that learning C can still be valuable, even in 2021. Dealing with a language where even something as mundane as string concatenation requires you to have an understanding of memory allocation is a serious reality check.

 

[tehlemon]

I've been in a shitty mood today, and I was probably more aggressive in my last post than I should have been.

I apologize for this unsatisfactory result. You will be glad to know I will not be submitting any more items for a long time.

Hey, it's not your job to make the combat system balanced or interesting. There's a reason the full quote was

more item bloat that absolutely no one cares about because combat in this game is a joke

No matter how interesting an item's concept is, it'll only be as useful as the game allows it to be. And right now that's mostly NPC flavor or roleplaying a very specific character archetype. And as NPC flavor, it's not really being meaningfully used across the game as a whole.

Oh damn, he really came to the forums.
brb, getting popcorn

Why? Nothing s/he's doing is a problem.

To be fair, you do have to have some rough knowledge about how these things actually work (or painful past experience, as is my case) to know when it's appropriate to use stuff like this or avoid it. This stuff can sort of feel like magic until you tear down the walls and realize that the performance issue you've been chasing for the past month were simply due to how you implemented everything.

The main reason I was able to find and fix this so quickly is because I knew what to look for and how to look for it. Profiling isn't something that readily comes up when you're learning to program, and high-level languages do tend to mask a lot of implementation details, leading to a ton of very subtle traps for people to fall into. Don't get me wrong, Lilith's Throne does have many code issues to tackle, but this is one of those cases where it's 95% of the way there and just needed a little nudge to set it straight.

Honestly, all of this is one of the reasons why I feel that learning C can still be valuable, even in 2021. Dealing with a language where even something as mundane as string concatenation requires you to have an understanding of memory allocation is a serious reality check.

Isn't that just like, a much nicer way to say the same thing I said lol

 

[DSGMods]

Oh damn, he really came to the forums.
brb, getting popcorn

I lurk here periodically to collect feedback, combat data, and bugs on content I submit. Mostly the first one.
Also seeing the emotional investment people have is amusing/frightening.

I felt compelled to speak this time because "more useless items" has been a consistent criticism of what I contribute, not just here, so if even a related quest (which is not particularly deep or interesting unless you are some kind of lore nerd, I admit) still makes it bloat then it is time for me to shift gears.

No matter how interesting an item's concept is, it'll only be as useful as the game allows it to be. And right now that's mostly NPC flavor or roleplaying a very specific character archetype. And as NPC flavor, it's not really being meaningfully used across the game as a whole.

Combat was even less interesting, in my opinion, before the AP system, and I have tried to diversify what I have, but if no one cares then no one cares.

 

[BaloneyAmone]

Why? Nothing s/he's doing is a problem.

I dunno, I just wanted an excuse to make popcorn at one-thirty in the morning.
It was worth, in my opinion

 

[Sarkath]

Isn't that just like, a much nicer way to say the same thing I said lol

Meh…yeah, kinda. I just wanted to evangelize C, dammit.

 

[IvoryOwl]

I lurk here periodically to collect feedback, combat data, and bugs on content I submit. Mostly the first one.
Also seeing the emotional investment people have is amusing/frightening.

I felt compelled to speak this time because "more useless items" has been a consistent criticism of what I contribute, not just here, so if even a related quest (which is not particularly deep or interesting unless you are some kind of lore nerd, I admit) still makes it bloat then it is time for me to shift gears.


Combat was even less interesting, in my opinion, before the AP system, and I have tried to diversify what I have, but if no one cares then no one cares.

IMO, I think what people really want at the moment are more meaningful changes; gameplay overhauls, more quality writing, story progression, performance and stability improvement, etc. People want to see the game move forward, in a consistent way, and not just sideways. They want to see improvement.

Clothing, tattoos and weapons are nice but at the end of the day they are just fluff additions. LT has been getting a plethora of side and minor content for a long time now, to the detriment of other (major) areas. Every time someone adds more fluff, it feels like you're committing the same sin Inno has been doing for the past 2-3 years, which is working on stuff that shouldn't be a priority right now. Now, this isn't actually your fault - you're just a modder working with the templates that are available to you... but what the game needs right now goes beyond of what those templates offer.

It doesn't help that some people feel like Inno is riding on other's contributions to inflate a changelog that would otherwise be rather bare-bones in terms of consistency and quality. (This was true even before her break.) Of course, at the end of the day you're not obliged to anything - you create what you want to create and if someone doesn't like it, they can skip it. I'm just giving my 2cents.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Drama-mongering masquerading as innocent commentary, combined with intentional ignorance of context to make innocuous comments seem targeted.

Seems like we have visitors. Caution highly advised.

I'm honestly surprised that no one else has comment on the blog update. Have we finally normalized how little Inno contributes compared to the volunteers? At this point they're adding and fixing core mechanics, adding quest content, and more item bloat that absolutely no one cares about because combat in this game is a joke lol

I don't think it's been "normalized;" it's still something you wouldn't expect from a Dev that claims to want to do solo work on a game. We just don't kid ourselves about what the result is going to be. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if Inno eventually stopped contributing core mechanics and a group of loyal modders basically started doing the work there as well. It's not what I expect to happen; it just wouldn't be a shocking result, given the current pattern and environment.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

By the way, Where's Alex?

 

[tehlemon]

I lurk here periodically to collect feedback, combat data, and bugs on content I submit. Mostly the first one.
Also seeing the emotional investment people have is amusing/frightening.

I felt compelled to speak this time because "more useless items" has been a consistent criticism of what I contribute, not just here, so if even a related quest (which is not particularly deep or interesting unless you are some kind of lore nerd, I admit) still makes it bloat then it is time for me to shift gears.


Combat was even less interesting, in my opinion, before the AP system, and I have tried to diversify what I have, but if no one cares then no one cares.

Just because it was more shit before doesn't mean its good now. I know the whole "don't let better be the enemy of perfect" thing, but that only applies when "better" doesn't make it harder to continue improving.

Honestly, this is a problem that's caused by the very thing everyone here keeps complaining about. Combat and the game's progression cannot be fixed as long as the games development is completely stopped. There's been zero main-story progress for what feels likes two or three years now. And the game's progression wasn't designed to be future proofed. At this point, the entire system is going to need to be either redesigned from the ground up, or every encounter in the game is going to need to be rebalanced.

And this is only going to be a bigger issue going forward, because it wasn't future proofed at all. There's no built in scaling or progression that'll be easy to work with.

And getting beyond that, the other reason a lot of people hate item bloat is because the game's inventory system is an RSI inducing trash pile. Trying to clear stuff you don't want out of your inventory is just annoying, so much so that I straight up delete items from the save file rather than spamming 'click and sell' for 10 minutes straight. It's like someone looked at Terraria's inventory system, something that has been universally agreed upon as being the worst part of Terraria, and said "how do I make a worse version of this?" Getting handed a bunch of items that won't fit within the game's progression just gives you annoying busy work to deal with.

Meh…yeah, kinda. I just wanted to evangelize C, dammit.

Don't worry, I'll do it for us.