bold of you to use one tag on both f95 and discord. Mad respects.
In more "realistic" news, it seems we are headed for a 2-3 week maximum on fields content.
View attachment 1051359
Just wanted to add, this is possibly one of the best forums I've had the pleasure to be a part of. The dunking on Inno, the discussions on game mechanics and other things. I love you guys. Drink water and stay hydrated.
I'm gonna say it now, that 2-3 weeks isn't going to happen and there is a very good chance 0.4 is the same under any and all time frames. Inno has lost too much focus and can't seem to reliably get back to the important part of development.
Just add a 0 on any time estimate and call it roughly enough accurate.
On actual game mechanics, anyone got a full flowchart on the changes Lyssieth makes when you get demonified based on your own choices? I know there's a few branches.
More like add three 0s, o0.4 has been the target for over a year and that is unlikely to get any better. If anything, it will go from over a year to over four not including any of the multiple that have already passed except the time already wasted that should have gone to 0.4 already.
Definitely not fixed.
Latest release absolutely still has at least one memory leak. The memory leak while not interacting with the game seems to depend on what you were doing when inactivity started. If you just load a save and walk away, it doesn't happen. There also appears to be an issue where the game stops garbage collection or something along those lines. Just advancing time in the right circumstances will exponentially increase memory usage even when no other interaction is happening. I'm too lazy to actually watch memory dumps to watch it, but my rough guess is that the slave logging is clogging everything up by not properly culling the data past the one week it displays.
The game *definitely* has memory usage issues with normal use. The memory issues we're talking about are not all memory leaks. Many of the issues are design issues. These issues affect both builds of the game. The more slaves you allow to interact, some of the data storage is increased exponentially. And there's a bunch of cases like that.
You really don't seem to understand that "it works for me" does not mean there's not an issue. Claiming there's no issue because "it works for me" just makes it really obvious that we shouldn't be listening to you for a technical breakdown. And you really don't seem to know which performance issues people are actually talking about.
Thanks for the heads up, I was hoping you would chime in on that. I'll keep my head count low, then.
I'm in the majority by being in favor of the game having a non-zero chance of ever being finished. Cutting the open overworld would definitely upset a lot of people, but in case you haven't noticed, development of said overworld proceeding at a snail's pace is already doing that. You need to choose whether you want to have your cake or eat it. If you choose to insist on both an open overworld and the game being anywhere near finished within the next two decades, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Really? Last time I checked the vast majority of Dominion's tiles were empty aside from interchangeable random NPCs. You have a very strange definition of crowded.
No, you have this completely backwards. This technical issue has to be fixed so that the game doesn't slow down and crash.
Except that due to the text-based nature of this game, these are just fast travel, not actual gameplay mechanics.
Teleport does work across maps, btw.
Right, right. So you want the game to have a big open overworld, and you want content for that overworld delivered quickly, and you want it procedurally generated, and you want someone else to pick up the game and get it done if and when the dev abandons it? That's quite a lot of stuff you want. And you honestly think any of it has some kind of a realistic chance of happening...?
No you are not, you don't support the open world concept that is a core element of this game, your previous comments suggest that much. The majority does or it would already be gone.
Really? Last time I checked the vast majority of Dominion's tiles were empty aside from interchangeable random NPCs. You have a very strange definition of crowded.
The vast majority being streets and alleys that HAVE to be empty with the exception of procedurally generated random encounters that don't stay without the player specifically choosing an option that makes them.
No, you have this completely backwards. This technical issue has to be fixed so that the game doesn't slow down and crash.
No, I do not. What you want is for every tile to have some sort of dedicated content based on what you've said in the past, that is NEVER going to happen. There HAVE to be empty tiles or A) the game will still reach a limit that cannot be eliminated entirely, only extended and B) you literally won't be able to walk two steps without interacting with some sort of content. Getting stopped every two seconds in the alleys by random encounters is already annoying as it is.
Dominion is currently like a Japanese subway in rush hour right now, which for context get so crowded that the generated body heat can be enough to make people faint because they cram those things so full that there is literally no room to do anything. You are literally crammed into every little space in those things. That's the way Dominion is now.
That is a problem that is only better than the problem with the NPC limit causing crashes. The content needs to be spread out to reduce this overcrowding and no more new content should be placed inside Dominion, new content should instead be geared toward the fields, where there currently is literally none.
More content means more NPCs, more NPCs means reaching the NPC limit that crashes the game.
Except that due to the text-based nature of this game, these are just fast travel, not actual gameplay mechanics.
Teleport does work across maps, btw.
As they are supposed to be, kind of like how the teleporting works in Skyrim.
Right, right. So you want the game to have a big open overworld, and you want content for that overworld delivered quickly, and you want it procedurally generated, and you want someone else to pick up the game and get it done if and when the dev abandons it? That's quite a lot of stuff you want. And you honestly think any of it has some kind of a realistic chance of happening...?
No, INNO wants it to be a big open world, that's the whole point of creating 9 different zones with their own settlements and native races. That's literally what we have been told would be added since the first day.
I don't care if it gets delivered quickly, I know how long it can take for smaller implementations to happen through my own experience. The only thing I care about in terms of development pace is that it is actually being worked on, not that Inno says they are working on it, that they have work actually getting done that can be shown if someone were to ask for proof.
Procedural generation is not necessary, but it would mean less work as then one block of code could apply to the entire area instead of having dedicated code for every single tile to trigger dedicated content. It would mean things could happen anywhere in that area at any time without all the hassle of writing out every single thing for every single tile.
I don't care if someone else picks up the game, but it would be best for it to be abandoned by Inno and for someone else to pick it up who has the experience and is willing to put together a proper team of developers like Inno should have done from the start.
If nobody else picks it up, so be it, it dies, though I myself am considering the possibility of picking it up should Inno abandon the game and I will continue exactly as Inno planned it originally minus the working alone part. I would put together a team from among the player base first thing as soon as I get a hold of the code.
A LOT of what you think I want is actually what has been officially stated by Inno themself and everything that isn't something Inno actually outright said is something I couldn't care less about, but that would help the game.
This is an absolute lie. If you've been around this community for at least two years, that's long enough to know that Innoxia literally posted these racist insults on their BLOG, in the comments, with the actual account that created the blog, in their responses to the criticisms about how Innoxia did their job as a dev. Majority of the rebuttals were basically an arrogant comparison of how much better Innoxia thought they were than us, by the measurement that they made more money than we all supposedly did. But, Innoxia later removed all evidence that these conversations ever happened, then restricted anonymous posting for a length of time (which wouldn't have later prevented a person from pretending to be Innoxia, if that was what was actually happening). Posters such as Ivory and I have been around long enough to know you're lying; I was one of the posters on the blog who also subsequently and continuously had their posts removed by Innoxia after that incident.
But, of course, because the evidence was burned and deleted, you could predictably sit there and hereafter do the routine of "Where's your proof, sir?" The adequate response being that I'd show it, if Innoxia didn't burn it all away. It's my word against yours, but I think I've proven my credibility by now after showing -- twice -- that I'm willing to seek out and display evidence to back my own claims when I'm allowed to do so. Combine that with the authoritarian need to destroy the evidence I do post, my credibility has been further cemented. I'll say thanks for that.
Wow, just wow, that's seriously low.
thinking about it now inno very well may have stopped developing the game altogether at this point considering how nyans update came out and how all the new races added were from the community and how she has a few of her inner circle working on code even the "fix" for the memory usage had a mod that basically did the same thing in the mod section of the discord which the usual group mocked
It is a very strong possibility, now if they would just announce dropping the game, that would be a good point to start putting together people who want to revive it.
Granted this has been ongoing for a while now, most additions have originated from GitHub for several months now with most of Inno's work, what little there is, being on the reworks.
I have been glazing over the discussions on this thread for a while now and I'm starting to think it was a terrible idea to turn off the comment section on the blog. I don't disagree with most of the criticism but up until recently, the worst of the brunt was mostly contained to that website. Now the most vocal have decided to move here.
It has only been a few weeks since it happened and a moderator already had to intervene a few times... which I don't remember happening since this thread was opened. I worry that, one day, one of said moderators is going to say "enough" and just close the entire thing for good, on the basis of our behavior and the fact we keep repeating the same mistakes, regardless of the warnings.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone on Discord is looking at the commotion we are making and laughing, rubbing their hands Sith-Lord like, knowing we are ultimately going to screw ourselves for it. Heck, maybe that's what some of them are hoping for. This is arguably the last stronghold we have to discuss this game more freely and its fate depends entirely on us.
Considering that the moderator actions primarily occurred whenever I posted screenshots of the Discord, I can't help but realize you're talking specifically about me and/or Siannash. You're also repeating what I've already said. Yes, this is probably our last stronghold. Yes, there are people on the Discord intentionally sowing seeds of derailment here. They did on the blog and I warned all you even then just before the comments got nuked and well before then sometime last year when a mass of people decided I was the sole antagonist. I don't think it's fair to place the entire responsibly upon us, when you just acknowledged that there are forces undermining us to sabotage us. Pick one and only one. And, how do you know Innoxia themselves are not behind most of this? How do you know this is not what Innoxia would want in the first place? Innoxia made the choice to turn off the comments. That meant she does not care to hear from anyone not filtered through the Discord. I don't know why so many of you refuse to fault Innoxia for what Innoxia does.
Let me ask you this, though: What do you propose we do under a circumstance of arbitrary rule enforcement, where correcting misinformation in itself is now deemed a violation? Do you suggest that I simply allow the lies to be as they are, without contest? If you do, I won't argue. I'll allow things to play out exactly as they will and watch as someone else inevitably takes my place (and given history, they'll likely be less reasonable than I am). Before now, that was Alex. Before Alex, that was Carlos and even you. It'll be the exact same cycle of nonstop complaining about the same issues with no solutions and no changes made. It's been this way for years, because you're too afraid to rock the boat. So, what do we do, Ivory? What would you do?
That's a fair assessment, Inno failed to get rid of us and instead we moved to a place they can't control without the possibility of losing their potential connections within the mod ranks to misuse of mod powers. A mod has intervened twice in the last few weeks, both against topics that technically fell within the topic of the thread as far as anyone here could tell. If they aren't, we need a reason why the topic is not when it is development related. Only once in that time has mod action been warranted, Slaneesh or whatever his name is was in violation of a different rule regarding the way he was wording things. He was far too aggressive.
They are indeed talking about us over there, including Inno themself. Someone posted a screenshot of a discussion about one of my comments that stated the inconvenient truth about Inno. Should the thread get closed, we can always move to another forum...again, but Inno will NEVER be rid of us as long as development continues to stall.
This is not our last stronghold, there are indeed other places, one of which is my source for the game where the people mod it to do things Inno won't.
How do you know this is not what Innoxia would want in the first place? Innoxia made the choice to turn off the comments. That meant she does not care to hear from anyone not filtered through the Discord. I don't know why so many of you refuse to fault Innoxia for what Innoxia does.
Another fair assessment, I dare say you hit the nail on the head. Inno is ultimately at fault for this as well through actions taken against our original place of commentary.
What do you propose we do under a circumstance of arbitrary rule enforcement, where correcting misinformation in itself is now deemed a violation?
Screenshot any comment you make that you are certain doesn't violate the rules and you also think will be struck with mod action, report this to the staff along with the screenshots as evidence. This is what I am now setting up for as well as keeping track of what mods come in when it happens. Currently, Fried is suspected in my own investigation due to the second purge, but it could be another.
If a mod is in violation of using their powers without justification, I'm not entirely sure, but I think they risk being removed as a mod entirely.
Do you suggest that I simply allow the lies to be as they are, without contest?
Absolutely not, do not, under any circumstances, let potential abuse of power go without issue.
So, what do we do, Ivory? What would you do?
We continue doing as we always have since the blog days, regardless of who opposes us. If our discussion remains on topic and non-aggressive, we are within the rules and any purge is out of line.
We know for a fact that the Discord watches this thread. Perhaps we all should agree on a meeting place in case it gets nuked.
Well, that's certainly not the worst possible place to go, but if anyone has any other ideas, they'd be welcome. Hell, if we agree on a place, we might just want to move there immediately and save our f95 accounts.
I've seen the screenshots, I already have a place in mind, but I will not openly state it so they can learn of it and implant supporters there as well.
This game will be dropped, sooner or later, but will be abandoned for sure, that's a fact
Very likely, either that or it will serve as a dead project only kept on life support for money milking, which is practically already the case.
I sincerely hate suggesting this, but we could try making a Subreddit?
That is possible and I would be glad to serve as an admin there to keep any purging of inconvenient truth away.
(I wrote inside a quote because long post is long and it saves space.)
This is what happens when you shut down the single biggest place for negative feedback, everyone moved here because the only other place known was secured against anything negative.
I will not fork the game, I hate the GitHub interface almost as much as Nyan, but I would be glad to take over in case of abandonment by Inno and I've been working on my own Java skills just in case.
The power to sift through and delete comments wouldn't be an issue with a subreddit, I would volunteer to moderate and I will NEVER silence opposition to Inno, though I will not silence support of Inno either. Only if someone on either side is in actual violation of the rules would I do anything. This I can promise, fair and equal treatment of all who use it regardless which side of the issue they are on.
