Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[bobomb]

That's my bad. But it is kinda hilarious that the solution to the memory leak is to stop playing the game and do something else while it runs in the background.

I edited the previous post with the details of exact version and OS platform I am using as well as some other details that might be pertinent

 

[bobomb]

when its been about 2 years of this and we're still having this conversation, i think comments about Inno being in over her head are completely justified.

Took me 3 years 40 hours a week to get good at server administration, but I have seen others progress faster. Also in my experience artist types tend to be a little nutty and suffer for it in ways that impact their lives and productivity. Also I support your right to think what you want, but this complaint is not new or different in any interesting way IMO.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

in my experience artist types tend to be a little nutty and suffer for it in ways that impact their lives and productivity

Haha. I thought I was the only one who thought Innoxia was nuts.

Joking aside, I don't think "Artist" is something anyone would call Innoxia. I don't see Innoxia's vision. Innoxia doesn't see Innoxia's vision. Does Innoxia have a vision? What is it? Do you know? Does anyone know? I thought visions had focus? Does any of this development process look "focused" to you? Do I need to screenshot the meme, where a guy just lists all of Innoxia's update posts on the blog that all continuously say some form of "Whoops, another delay" and "0.4 will be released, this time, for sure, I swear, after this one teensy detour I decided to take on whim?"

 

[anon707]

Took me 3 years 40 hours a week to get good at server administration, but I have seen others progress faster. Also in my experience artist types tend to be a little nutty and suffer for it in ways that impact their lives and productivity. Also I support your right to think what you want, but this complaint is not new or different in any interesting way IMO.

were you promising results for 3 years straight while progressing at a snail's pace while asking for money?

 

[throbzombie]

Not really. I said there are too many tiles in the overworld map for Inno to ever populate with content, to which you responded that each tile is 22 km sq in size. It's more like a Pepsi and gravel argument. What you're saying is not even remotely relevant to what I'm saying.

It is a matter of personal preference; you think it's too big, but I don't. There's nothing either of us can do to convince the other because it just comes down to subjective personal opinion: a Pepsi and Coke argument.

No, my point is that if you're okay with the fact that the Arcane can do anything, then you have no basis for finding anything unbelievable, because anything can be justified with a simple "the Arcane did it".

Originally, I didn't say that I was okay with the Arcane being able to do anything. All I said was that it didn't break the rules of the setting, a completely neutral, factual statement that neither condemns not endorses the Arcane. But yeah, the thing that is 100% responsible for everything weird in the setting from the word "go" should satisfactorily explain everything weird in the setting. It's not an ex post facto explanation for stuff; it's the premise of the game. Lest we forget, Lilith used the Arcane to reshape reality, so the Arcane underpins everything, even it it turns out not to be the sole reason for weird stuff. Also, as a side note, having a one-size-fits-all justification for everything isn't bad on its own. If if makes sense, and doesn't leave any loose threads, then what's the problem?

That "stuffing a small area with content strains your suspension of disbelief". But at the same time, you think that the all-powerful Arcane is "a perfectly sensible explanation for any weirdness that goes on in the game". You have to choose one of the two, either there are things that strain your suspension of disbelief, or there's a perfectly sensible explanation for any weirdness. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not having my cake and eating it too. This is a fantasy world which deviates from reality quite a bit, but within certain boundaries. What happens in the world is judged within those boundaries. It should be safely assumed that people aging 18 years within a day is due to the Arcane, but if people generally need to survive in this world, as evidenced by the fact that eating and related processes are referenced extensively in the game, then encountering someone who's spent 100 years locked in a cave without food should need to be explained. Because it violates the previously observed rule, that is, that everyone needs sustenance to survive, it requires further explanation.

Anyway, it's almost 8 and I still haven't eaten. Why don't we wrap things up here?

 

[alex2011]

Empty space is non-content.


That's why I think LT should abandon the open world idea and confine itself to just the one city. There's plenty of games that limit their setting in a similar way (like, say, Cyberpunk in recent memory).


My point precisely. No reason to add even more empty space when there's plenty already.


I don't know, having a rocket-powered wingsuit and the ability to summon a jet fighter anywhere sure helped a lot in Just Cause.


LOL, no. Not by Inno. She's no Tarn Adams.

Well, then there you have it, the answer to non-content, AKA empty space, is to spread the overloaded Dominion's existing content to other areas while also creating new content for these newer areas while they are the focus up to a certain number of quests and interactions.

The empty space is only empty with no content in the space, so existing content that is already overflowing from a non-empty area can be used to get rid of the empty space that is the fields.

Another user also pointed out something and this is also part of what the fields are supposed to have anyway, procedural generation, randomized content that can pop up at any time in any space of the fields. This is already present with the muggers and prostitutes in Dominion and Submission alleys, but it would be over a larger area in the fields. There would not be a safe place to go except the settlement tiles like the ones representing Dominion and Elis. Every other space would have a chance to trigger something.

Then you could have specific tiles set up to trigger somethng specific like a small farm or something like that, maybe a side quest giver could be on some of them along the way as well. There would be no shortage of content in that case.

That's why I think LT should abandon the open world idea and confine itself to just the one city. There's plenty of games that limit their setting in a similar way (like, say, Cyberpunk in recent memory).

Sure, if they want to threaten the game with a mass exodus, seriously, you are in the minority by being against the open world concept of this game.

This game has been advertised as open world since day one, multiple years ago, it is too late to abandon that without abandoning the game entirely.

No reason to add even more empty space when there's plenty already.

There's not enough of it, Dominion is too crowded by content and needs to have its content spread out.

having a rocket-powered wingsuit and the ability to summon a jet fighter anywhere sure helped a lot in Just Cause.

Flight and instant teleportation are both active options in the game at this very moment, all that needs to be done is to make it applicable over multiple different maps instead of just one point to another point on a single map.

LOL, no. Not by Inno. She's no Tarn Adams.

Definitely not, it will likely have to be whoever picks it up when Inno inevitably is forced to abandon the game because they can't sustain development due to people leaving and forcing Inno to go get a new job. At least we can agree on that much.

My guess is money. I strongly believe Innoxia lost their charitable motivations not too long after they went on a clap-back war against anonymous users from 8chan, calling everyone "niqqers" and deleting posts criticizing them. Innoxia has pretty much donned the stereotypical "I care about what you want" facade while simultaneously kicking us all in the nuts/ovaries at every turn. The naive folk buy into it and write off every clear instance of backhanding as something understandable, but I distinctly remember the venom. I can relate to it, because I've been in that position before. That doesn't just go away; the poison doesn't just vanish, so I think Innoxia holds a vendetta against the blog commenters (probably, the community as a whole) and just extracts what they can from it since lustful primal urge is the only thing people primarily operate on in these situations. Throw a bit of red meat every so often and the dough keeps rolling for months, even if they explicitly say to the audience to pause all donations until updates come. I honestly feel a bit sorry for them, if this is true.


I've gotten a version of Helena that becomes Lustful Maiden, who never loses her virginity and yet uses every other orifice for pleasure. I think she will always wear slutty clothing, but that's just her personality. She's pretty much one of those "

You must be registered to see the links

" who just goes full throttle on the "Bitch" part when you introduce her to the pleasures of degeneracy.

During your romancing of Helena, you can go on a lunch date with Scarlett. At some point during these dates, you will learn that Helena has been insistent on pacifying Scarlett's aggressiveness by transforming them into an actual female. Scarlett will ask you if you agree and if you say you do, Scarlett will drink the potion and transform into a female.

Wait, 8chan was calling people that or Inno? If it was 8chan, that's typical of them, they usually resort to that kind of language with zero provocation.

I think it might have been much sooner, when Inno first stepped onto the Patreon train. The second most devs do, they lose the will to do the thing people pay them through those sites for and gain the desire to take as much money as they can with as little effort as possible.

The lustful urge thing doesn't work for me, I am one of what is likely only a few who treat this as just a game, not as fap material, as I do all others no matter their quality. I'm in it because I saw potential as a game. Inno could strip all sex out of it and I would still have played it.

Like Carl0s from the blog, who is around somewhere here as well, I saw potential and almost bought in, or did in his case, but I won't be fooled. It takes quality and proof of actual progress to get my money.

This is why Patreon developers have a bad reputation around here, little work for much reward. They do as little as they can to get as much as they can, Inno included.

It's a Pepsi and Coke debate at this point.



No, it's not the core of the issue. Your point is that the Arcane is overpowered, but that has nothing to do with whether it's plausible or consistent within the rules of the setting, WHICH ARE THAT THE ARCANE CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING. It's magic, and it's not even especially OP magic, as far as fantasy properties go.



What did you think my point was?



I'm not arguing whether it's good storytelling; that has nothing to do with whether it violates the laws of the setting. The Arcane is an established part of the LT world, with its abilities and limits defined by the author. And it should explain every deviation from reality, considering that it's the sole cause of every deviation from reality, including the very existence of Lilith's realm.

Pretty much, open world is just not Sordid's cup of tea, that's all it boils down to, but that isn't going to change what this game is planned to be or what it will become while in Inno's hands or in another developer's.

I just don't want people to go and harass them or something

Of course not, harassment gets nowhere, that has never been a good way to get things.

Not really. I said there are too many tiles in the overworld map for Inno to ever populate with content, to which you responded that each tile is 22 km sq in size. It's more like a Pepsi and gravel argument. What you're saying is not even remotely relevant to what I'm saying.


No, my point is that if you're okay with the fact that the Arcane can do anything, then you have no basis for finding anything unbelievable, because anything can be justified with a simple "the Arcane did it".


That "stuffing a small area with content strains your suspension of disbelief". But at the same time, you think that the all-powerful Arcane is "a perfectly sensible explanation for any weirdness that goes on in the game". You have to choose one of the two, either there are things that strain your suspension of disbelief, or there's a perfectly sensible explanation for any weirdness. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As I've said before, not every tile needs to be populated, in fact, that would slow or even crash the game if every tile was populated. There is a user on this thread, Tehlemon, that has run into this issue just with random NPCs. There HAS to be empty spaces sometimes or the game will cease to function correctly.

Also, you are failing to realize that procedurally generated encounters would solve this issue. The random encounters like what we have in the alleys already could be set to appear literally anywhere without having to assign them to a specific tile.

All this talk of Inno is in over her head I think is premature. Yeah this is her first project, but she has made real strides on the engine and IIRC she said she didn't want to do much content yet but had to raise funds to get the engine right. We'll see what happens going forward, but that's just my 2 cents. Anyway like I said it's worth my buck a month to see what happens and that's where I stand on this for what it's worth. I am reminded of something I recently saw on perverteer's discord.
View attachment 1051205 Patience folks, it's a free game and someone's artistic vision (Although I do support your right to criticise the vision. I haven't done Nyan's further quest and will probably wait based on what I am hearing about it here till it gets an inevitable rework).

No, it is not premature. This project is NOT the kind even an experienced developer does solo and this was Inno's first project, so yes, Inno IS in over their head.

I am an experienced developer in a different programming language, Visual Basic from before .NET, and I can say with 100% certainty that I would NEVER recommend ANY developer does a project like this alone or even on a small team of less than five people.

Those strides you're talking about? Thank the GitHub, they are the ones who did most of that, Inno isn't experienced enough to make that kind of progress in a language like Java that quickly.

This is the kind of project even big company AAA developers would be cautious about and only put their best and most experienced people on, not the new blood that just walked in last month from college.

How nice of you not to explain how this fix is performed. FYI, if you have a solution to a problem people are having post the entire solution. If you don't, it makes you look extremely suspect.

Indeed, I'm going to need to see evidence, so I'll wait for Tehlemon to confirm it before I believe it to be fixed.

That's my bad. But it is kinda hilarious that the solution to the memory leak is to stop playing the game and do something else while it runs in the background.

That's basically how RAM works, so I expected as much. However, that doesn't actually solve the issue, it just means taking a break after a period of time to let it release memory. This is a band aid, not a true solution. A true solution would be getting it to NOT eat that much in the first place or purging unused memory from being held by the process so it can be released WHILE the game is running.

when its been about 2 years of this and we're still having this conversation, i think comments about Inno being in over her head are completely justified.

Indeed they are, a developer NOT in over their head would be much further along by now.

Haha. I thought I was the only one who thought Innoxia was nuts.

Joking aside, I don't think "Artist" is something anyone would call Innoxia. I don't see Innoxia's vision. Innoxia doesn't see Innoxia's vision. Does Innoxia have a vision? What is it? Do you know? Does anyone know? I thought visions had focus? Does any of this development process look "focused" to you? Do I need to screenshot the meme, where a guy just lists all of Innoxia's update posts on the blog that all continuously say some form of "Whoops, another delay" and "0.4 will be released, this time, for sure, I swear, after this one teensy detour I decided to take on whim?"

No, Jam I would call an artist, but Inno is a programmer and a writer. Inno does have a vision, but they have lost sight of it, they are blinded by the side content placed in front of them by other sides of the community. Visions do not have focus, but a person who has a vision is supposed to, however, Inno lacks that focus. Please do post the meme, I need a good laugh.

It is a matter of personal preference; you think it's too big, but I don't. There's nothing either of us can do to convince the other because it just comes down to subjective personal opinion: a Pepsi and Coke argument.



Originally, I didn't say that I was okay with the Arcane being able to do anything. All I said was that it didn't break the rules of the setting, a completely neutral, factual statement that neither condemns not endorses the Arcane. But yeah, the thing that is 100% responsible for everything weird in the setting from the word "go" should satisfactorily explain everything weird in the setting. It's not an ex post facto explanation for stuff; it's the premise of the game. Lest we forget, Lilith used the Arcane to reshape reality, so the Arcane underpins everything, even it it turns out not to be the sole reason for weird stuff. Also, as a side note, having a one-size-fits-all justification for everything isn't bad on its own. If if makes sense, and doesn't leave any loose threads, then what's the problem?



I'm not having my cake and eating it too. This is a fantasy world which deviates from reality quite a bit, but within certain boundaries. What happens in the world is judged within those boundaries. It should be safely assumed that people aging 18 years within a day is due to the Arcane, but if people generally need to survive in this world, as evidenced by the fact that eating and related processes are referenced extensively in the game, then encountering someone who's spent 100 years locked in a cave without food should need to be explained. Because it violates the previously observed rule, that is, that everyone needs sustenance to survive, it requires further explanation.

Anyway, it's almost 8 and I still haven't eaten. Why don't we wrap things up here?

Exactly, Sordid and those arguing against him will simply argue circles around each other for eternity, no progress will ever be made in said argument because it is all based on subjective opinion.

 

[redcynic]

No, Inno has some pretty wild fucking takes on a personal and political level, witness her long ass rants in the politics section of her discord - she has Hot Takes™ on the UK immigration issue and other matters. I'd fully buy her dropping the big N around.

 

[moohoo]

No, Inno has some pretty wild fucking takes on a personal and political level, witness her long ass rants in the politics section of her discord - she has Hot Takes™ on the UK immigration issue and other matters. I'd fully buy her dropping the big N around.

we haven't had a political section on our discord for like 2 years now. The anons posting the picture of inno dropping a hard R are fucking with you people, One anon regularly shitposted with inno as their trip.

 

[moohoo]

Feels like this game is a one big fat memory leak.

Also, what are possible outcomes of the Helena dates? Does she always turn into a turboslut, or is it connected to a "break her" option?

right now she just turns into a turboslut but inno plans on fixing that, however I've been pushing fields pretty hard using my VAST INFLUENCE so I wouldn't expect any character reworks for the next 3 months.

You say that, but she could actually cause a lot of trouble by just siccing her fanbase on people.

You really don't have to worry about that dude she ain't the kind of person and the discord folks are mostly in the realm of passive support, not an angry mob. Most of the people here are full of shit. Do as thou wilt.

 

[Marlin Brandy]

View attachment 1050887
apparently the npc limit isn't an actual issue

bold of you to use one tag on both f95 and discord. Mad respects.

In more "realistic" news, it seems we are headed for a 2-3 week maximum on fields content.


Just wanted to add, this is possibly one of the best forums I've had the pleasure to be a part of. The dunking on Inno, the discussions on game mechanics and other things. I love you guys. Drink water and stay hydrated.

 

[redcynic]

Just add a 0 on any time estimate and call it roughly enough accurate.

On actual game mechanics, anyone got a full flowchart on the changes Lyssieth makes when you get demonified based on your own choices? I know there's a few branches.

 

[bobomb]

we haven't had a political section on our discord for like 2 years now. The anons posting the picture of inno dropping a hard R are fucking with you people, One anon regularly shitposted with inno as their trip.

#FreeFreedomLand

 

[organord]

On actual game mechanics, anyone got a full flowchart on the changes Lyssieth makes when you get demonified based on your own choices? I know there's a few branches.

The buttons should have descriptions of what each next stage will do.

If you just keep fucking her dominantly you'll end up as a masculine incubus.
If you fuck her and then switch roles and let her fuck you, you'll become a futa succubus.
If you repeatedly ask to get fucked then you'll become a hyperfeminine succubus.

Oh, and if you specifically ask to get fucked in the ass over and over while you have a dick, she'll shrink your dick a few times and eventually lock you in chastity. If you're not into chastity you can avoid that last step by picking anything other than receiving anal, and you'll get some sissy SPH instead (since at that point your dick is super tiny).

There's also full support for the incest fetish (whether she refers to herself as your mommy or not, with a different tone from her regular lines).

You can check the dialog variants in \res\txt\characters\submission\lyssieth.xml but it reads a lot smoother in-game since you don't have to sift through all the chunks of code separating the actual text.

 

[tehlemon]

BTW guys. Memory use fix confirmed. When I used to let the game run forever it would just keep leaking. Since my last 2 gig use post this is what happened View attachment 1051201

Well aren't we snarky? I told you how it was performed. I waited and it released memory. Iam on windows 10 using the win64 executable packaged by whoever posted the 3.13 version of the game here (Might have been Inno's package. I find the exe has worked better for me in the past because the package uses the JAVA version that Inno is developing on.)

Definitely not fixed.

Latest release absolutely still has at least one memory leak. The memory leak while not interacting with the game seems to depend on what you were doing when inactivity started. If you just load a save and walk away, it doesn't happen. There also appears to be an issue where the game stops garbage collection or something along those lines. Just advancing time in the right circumstances will exponentially increase memory usage even when no other interaction is happening. I'm too lazy to actually watch memory dumps to watch it, but my rough guess is that the slave logging is clogging everything up by not properly culling the data past the one week it displays.

The game *definitely* has memory usage issues with normal use. The memory issues we're talking about are not all memory leaks. Many of the issues are design issues. These issues affect both builds of the game. The more slaves you allow to interact, some of the data storage is increased exponentially. And there's a bunch of cases like that.

You really don't seem to understand that "it works for me" does not mean there's not an issue. Claiming there's no issue because "it works for me" just makes it really obvious that we shouldn't be listening to you for a technical breakdown. And you really don't seem to know which performance issues people are actually talking about.

 

[SordidDreams]

Sure, if they want to threaten the game with a mass exodus, seriously, you are in the minority by being against the open world concept of this game.

I'm in the majority by being in favor of the game having a non-zero chance of ever being finished. Cutting the open overworld would definitely upset a lot of people, but in case you haven't noticed, development of said overworld proceeding at a snail's pace is already doing that. You need to choose whether you want to have your cake or eat it. If you choose to insist on both an open overworld and the game being anywhere near finished within the next two decades, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Dominion is too crowded by content and needs to have its content spread out.

Really? Last time I checked the vast majority of Dominion's tiles were empty aside from interchangeable random NPCs. You have a very strange definition of crowded.

As I've said before, not every tile needs to be populated, in fact, that would slow or even crash the game if every tile was populated. There is a user on this thread, Tehlemon, that has run into this issue just with random NPCs. There HAS to be empty spaces sometimes or the game will cease to function correctly.

No, you have this completely backwards. This technical issue has to be fixed so that the game doesn't slow down and crash.

Flight and instant teleportation are both active options in the game at this very moment, all that needs to be done is to make it applicable over multiple different maps instead of just one point to another point on a single map.

Except that due to the text-based nature of this game, these are just fast travel, not actual gameplay mechanics.
Teleport does work across maps, btw.

Definitely not, it will likely have to be whoever picks it up when Inno inevitably is forced to abandon the game because they can't sustain development due to people leaving and forcing Inno to go get a new job.

Right, right. So you want the game to have a big open overworld, and you want content for that overworld delivered quickly, and you want it procedurally generated, and you want someone else to pick up the game and get it done if and when the dev abandons it? That's quite a lot of stuff you want. And you honestly think any of it has some kind of a realistic chance of happening...?

 

[PussyPassAnon]

we haven't had a political section on our discord for like 2 years now. The anons posting the picture of inno dropping a hard R are fucking with you people, One anon regularly shitposted with inno as their trip.

This is an absolute lie. If you've been around this community for at least two years, that's long enough to know that Innoxia literally posted these racist insults on their BLOG, in the comments, with the actual account that created the blog, in their responses to the criticisms about how Innoxia did their job as a dev. Majority of the rebuttals were basically an arrogant comparison of how much better Innoxia thought they were than us, by the measurement that they made more money than we all supposedly did. But, Innoxia later removed all evidence that these conversations ever happened, then restricted anonymous posting for a length of time (which wouldn't have later prevented a person from pretending to be Innoxia, if that was what was actually happening). Posters such as Ivory and I have been around long enough to know you're lying; I was one of the posters on the blog who also subsequently and continuously had their posts removed by Innoxia after that incident.

But, of course, because the evidence was burned and deleted, you could predictably sit there and hereafter do the routine of "Where's your proof, sir?" The adequate response being that I'd show it, if Innoxia didn't burn it all away. It's my word against yours, but I think I've proven my credibility by now after showing -- twice -- that I'm willing to seek out and display evidence to back my own claims when I'm allowed to do so. Combine that with the authoritarian need to destroy the evidence I do post, my credibility has been further cemented. I'll say thanks for that.

 

[circuit]

thinking about it now inno very well may have stopped developing the game altogether at this point considering how nyans update came out and how all the new races added were from the community and how she has a few of her inner circle working on code even the "fix" for the memory usage had a mod that basically did the same thing in the mod section of the discord which the usual group mocked

 

[IvoryOwl]

I have been glazing over the discussions on this thread for a while now and I'm starting to think it was a terrible idea to turn off the comment section on the blog. I don't disagree with most of the criticism but up until recently, the worst of the brunt was mostly contained to that website. Now the most vocal have decided to move here.

It has only been a few weeks since it happened and a moderator already had to intervene a few times... which I don't remember happening since this thread was opened. I worry that, one day, one of said moderators is going to say "enough" and just close the entire thing for good, on the basis of our behavior and the fact we keep repeating the same mistakes, regardless of the warnings.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on Discord is looking at the commotion we are making and laughing, rubbing their hands Sith-Lord like, knowing we are ultimately going to screw ourselves for it. Heck, maybe that's what some of them are hoping for. This is arguably the last stronghold we have to discuss this game more freely and its fate depends entirely on us.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

I have been glazing over the discussions on this thread for a while now and I'm starting to think it was a terrible idea to turn off the comment section on the blog. I don't disagree with most of the criticism but up until recently, the worst of the brunt was mostly contained to that website. Now the most vocal have decided to move here.

It has only been a few weeks since it happened and a moderator already had to intervene a few times... which I don't remember happening since this thread was opened. I worry that, one day, one of said moderators is going to say "enough" and just close the entire thing for good, on the basis of our behavior and the fact we keep repeating the same mistakes, regardless of the warnings.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on Discord is looking at the commotion we are making and laughing, rubbing their hands Sith-Lord like, knowing we are ultimately going to screw ourselves for it. Heck, maybe that's what some of them are hoping for. This is arguably the last stronghold we have to discuss this game more freely and its fate depends entirely on us.

Considering that the moderator actions primarily occurred whenever I posted screenshots of the Discord, I can't help but realize you're talking specifically about me and/or Siannash. You're also repeating what I've already said. Yes, this is probably our last stronghold. Yes, there are people on the Discord intentionally sowing seeds of derailment here. They did on the blog and I warned all you even then just before the comments got nuked and well before then sometime last year when a mass of people decided I was the sole antagonist. I don't think it's fair to place the entire responsibly upon us, when you just acknowledged that there are forces undermining us to sabotage us. Pick one and only one. And, how do you know Innoxia themselves are not behind most of this? How do you know this is not what Innoxia would want in the first place? Innoxia made the choice to turn off the comments. That meant she does not care to hear from anyone not filtered through the Discord. I don't know why so many of you refuse to fault Innoxia for what Innoxia does.

Let me ask you this, though: What do you propose we do under a circumstance of arbitrary rule enforcement, where correcting misinformation in itself is now deemed a violation? Do you suggest that I simply allow the lies to be as they are, without contest? If you do, I won't argue. I'll allow things to play out exactly as they will and watch as someone else inevitably takes my place (and given history, they'll likely be less reasonable than I am). Before now, that was Alex. Before Alex, that was Carlos and even you. It'll be the exact same cycle of nonstop complaining about the same issues with no solutions and no changes made. It's been this way for years, because you're too afraid to rock the boat. So, what do we do, Ivory? What would you do?

 

[throbzombie]

I have been glazing over the discussions on this thread for a while now and I'm starting to think it was a terrible idea to turn off the comment section on the blog. I don't disagree with most of the criticism but up until recently, the worst of the brunt was mostly contained to that website. Now the most vocal have decided to move here.

It has only been a few weeks since it happened and a moderator already had to intervene a few times... which I don't remember happening since this thread was opened. I worry that, one day, one of said moderators is going to say "enough" and just close the entire thing for good, on the basis of our behavior and the fact we keep repeating the same mistakes, regardless of the warnings.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on Discord is looking at the commotion we are making and laughing, rubbing their hands Sith-Lord like, knowing we are ultimately going to screw ourselves for it. Heck, maybe that's what some of them are hoping for. This is arguably the last stronghold we have to discuss this game more freely and its fate depends entirely on us.

We know for a fact that the Discord watches this thread. Perhaps we all should agree on a meeting place in case it gets nuked.