Ren'Py Lisa Total Investigation! [P2 v0.30] [Dragofinder Studio]

[Dragofinder]

Dragofinder I've been playing your game for a short while, and gotten to day 9. I like what I've seen so far and for a first time developer it's not that bad, but there are a couple of simple ways I think you can improve the game.

• Decide whether you want to make a sandbox or a VN. Right now it looks like a sandbox, but there are so few options that it's a VN. So unless there comes some parallel story lines, player choices, etc. later, you are wasting a lot of energy on making a VN look like a sandbox.
• If you want the game to be a sandbox, you should let the player decide where MC should cum. Personally I would prefer MC not to do a creampie when Lisa has a high fertility day, simply because I want him to be a cuckold, but others dislike this. Secondly (haven't gotten far yet, so might already be the case) I would like Lisa to be scare of pregnancy when someone other than MC fills her womb. Preferably she would ask them not to cum inside her on high fertility days, and it should be up to the player to decide whether to follow that request or not.
• The grinding in the beginning of the game is annoying. To me it's grinding when you have to repeat the same scene 2 or more times in order to raise a stat. Whether it continues like this I don't know (still only gotten to day 9), but I have sent MANY games to the trash bin because of endless grinding or foreplay. Instead of repeating a scene, just raise the stat with a higher value or spend the time on making a different scene or let the player choose between different endings of the scene. Like with the morning petting in the kitchen, the player should have the option to fuck Lisa in the pussy, ass, mouth or let MC jackoff in her face or on her ass. And instead of 10 foreplay scenes and 1 sex scenes, there should be 1 foreplay scene and 10 sex scenes. Rendering takes the same amount of time and I can easily come up with 10 different ways to fuck a girl.

Thank you Yes until day 14 there is a bit too much of repetitive scene. That was the first things I did I changed the rhythm after that I try to populate the sandbox a little. I did that to add some life in the background but for the moment I'm concentrating in the story.
In the story, Lisa just want to get pregnant for her wedding, that's why she is always ready for a creampie . If you make the "good" choice, she will ask the mc to put a condom on her max fertility day

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

Thank you Yes until day 14 there is a bit too much of repetitive scene. That was the first things I did I changed the rhythm after that I try to populate the sandbox a little. I did that to add some life in the background but for the moment I'm concentrating in the story.
In the story, Lisa just want to get pregnant for her wedding, that's why she is always ready for a creampie . If you make the "good" choice, she will ask the mc to put a condom on her max fertility day

So I did some more playing, and I have to say. You probably made almost all the mistakes a newbie developer can make.
What I'm writing below isn't criticism. It's suggestions for you on how to improve your game. You can use them if you like, or you can discard them if you think I'm wrong.

I understand the part of her wanting to become pregnant, but in the beginning she won't even talk about having sex with anyone but MC, but suddenly after a few repeated scenes, she is suddenly a cum hungry whore who would let anyone but MC creampie her. Why not simply start with her as a cum hungry whore and ditch the pointless grinding?

Whether she should let other creampie her with consent or not is a matter of personal fetish. Personally I prefer the girls to be faithful and sex with anyone but their partner is none consensual, but I do know not many share that view, so I'm fine with either. I just can't stand when a girl is turned from a faithful prude to a cum hungry slut in a matter of 5-10 grinding scenes. It's done in many games, but waste of development time IMHO.

Regarding the sandbox versus VN, you actually managed to combine the worst from the sandbox with the worst from VN's. You story has, in a very short time, become so complex with so many different endings, that I think you lost the big picture your self. I've discovered about 6 different paths so far, which is something that annoys me A LOT in a VN. I've seen many VN's with multiple endings and it always annoys me that you have to save at the right times (never told when a decision is important or not) in order to be able to play the different ending without having to start from scratch. With different ending, I don't just mean consensual versus none consensual sex/creampie, but different content, like MC's bet with his friend or the pet training. In a few good VN's they have built in restart points, so you easily can play another ending without having to start from scratch. But multiple endings are never good IMHO. It should be up to the story teller to decide the path and not waste development time on different endings.
In short. Please think twice before adding yet another path/ending. Why waste time on developing a path/ending that not everyone will see. It's ok to have story parts that you can skip, like the bet or the pet training, but skipping a story part shouldn't mean a different ending. In fact, I think having story parts that you can skip if it's not your fetish, makes the game better, just as having different moods like consensual/none consensual sex/creampies. The story line is the same, while the mood of the girl is different. Like with the last model scene where Lisa is completely immobilized. The story line will be exactly the same, but in the consensual mood she will encourage the guy to fuck her and fill her, while in the none consensual mood, either MC will allow the guy to fuck her and he will fill her with or without their consent or the guy will send MC away and fuck and fill Lisa without their consent.

If your game had been a proper sandbox game, the 3 story lines with the 3 additional guys would run in parallel. It could be Lisa and her boss before noon, the modeling job in the afternoon/weekends and MC's friend in the evening/weekends. That would leave morning and night for MC and Lisa alone. I know that the pet story is going across some of the paths, but it's not uncommon in a sandbox game that a story line is sometime on pause while waiting for another story line to catch up. But it requires development and story telling skills to get it right.

Regarding grinding/repeated scenes, you have them all to the end. Every morning it's a mandatory kitchen scene and in the evening it's a mandatory living room scene. You never see that in a proper sandbox game.
On top of that I saw a number of minor errors.

• you can sometime give Lisa a present in the kitchen without her being there
• Sometimes Lisa could go to work in the weekends.
• there were a masturbation scene in the bathroom which would repeat in a different version if you switched away from the bathroom and back. Time never progress
• Some of the model scenes with Lisa ends kind of abrupt, where you are suddenly back in the living room with the mandatory evening scene.
• A proper sandbox game never has an end of story. It comes to a point where there are no more quests to perform, but there will always be some scenes that you can replay, like the current morning and evening scenes. They should just not be mandatory.

Some of those errors might be because I didn't follow the decision path you have laid out, but this is exactly what is going to happen when you try to make a multi ending VN in a sandbox environment.

I know this is a long post, and I probably repeats my self a couple of times. But all in all I like your story and I like your graphics style. You just need to make up your mind, whether you want to make a multi ending VN or a proper sandbox game. Personally I would prefer the sandbox game with the option to skip parts of the story with fetishes that is not to my liking. But it's much more difficult to make compared to a multi ending VN.

 

[Dragofinder]

So I did some more playing, and I have to say. You probably made almost all the mistakes a newbie developer can make.
What I'm writing below isn't criticism. It's suggestions for you on how to improve your game. You can use them if you like, or you can discard them if you think I'm wrong.

I understand the part of her wanting to become pregnant, but in the beginning she won't even talk about having sex with anyone but MC, but suddenly after a few repeated scenes, she is suddenly a cum hungry whore who would let anyone but MC creampie her. Why not simply start with her as a cum hungry whore and ditch the pointless grinding?

Whether she should let other creampie her with consent or not is a matter of personal fetish. Personally I prefer the girls to be faithful and sex with anyone but their partner is none consensual, but I do know not many share that view, so I'm fine with either. I just can't stand when a girl is turned from a faithful prude to a cum hungry slut in a matter of 5-10 grinding scenes. It's done in many games, but waste of development time IMHO.

Regarding the sandbox versus VN, you actually managed to combine the worst from the sandbox with the worst from VN's. You story has, in a very short time, become so complex with so many different endings, that I think you lost the big picture your self. I've discovered about 6 different paths so far, which is something that annoys me A LOT in a VN. I've seen many VN's with multiple endings and it always annoys me that you have to save at the right times (never told when a decision is important or not) in order to be able to play the different ending without having to start from scratch. With different ending, I don't just mean consensual versus none consensual sex/creampie, but different content, like MC's bet with his friend or the pet training. In a few good VN's they have built in restart points, so you easily can play another ending without having to start from scratch. But multiple endings are never good IMHO. It should be up to the story teller to decide the path and not waste development time on different endings.
In short. Please think twice before adding yet another path/ending. Why waste time on developing a path/ending that not everyone will see. It's ok to have story parts that you can skip, like the bet or the pet training, but skipping a story part shouldn't mean a different ending. In fact, I think having story parts that you can skip if it's not your fetish, makes the game better, just as having different moods like consensual/none consensual sex/creampies. The story line is the same, while the mood of the girl is different. Like with the last model scene where Lisa is completely immobilized. The story line will be exactly the same, but in the consensual mood she will encourage the guy to fuck her and fill her, while in the none consensual mood, either MC will allow the guy to fuck her and he will fill her with or without their consent or the guy will send MC away and fuck and fill Lisa without their consent.

If your game had been a proper sandbox game, the 3 story lines with the 3 additional guys would run in parallel. It could be Lisa and her boss before noon, the modeling job in the afternoon/weekends and MC's friend in the evening/weekends. That would leave morning and night for MC and Lisa alone. I know that the pet story is going across some of the paths, but it's not uncommon in a sandbox game that a story line is sometime on pause while waiting for another story line to catch up. But it requires development and story telling skills to get it right.

Regarding grinding/repeated scenes, you have them all to the end. Every morning it's a mandatory kitchen scene and in the evening it's a mandatory living room scene. You never see that in a proper sandbox game.
On top of that I saw a number of minor errors.

• you can sometime give Lisa a present in the kitchen without her being there
• Sometimes Lisa could go to work in the weekends.
• there were a masturbation scene in the bathroom which would repeat in a different version if you switched away from the bathroom and back. Time never progress
• Some of the model scenes with Lisa ends kind of abrupt, where you are suddenly back in the living room with the mandatory evening scene.
• A proper sandbox game never has an end of story. It comes to a point where there are no more quests to perform, but there will always be some scenes that you can replay, like the current morning and evening scenes. They should just not be mandatory.

Some of those errors might be because I didn't follow the decision path you have laid out, but this is exactly what is going to happen when you try to make a multi ending VN in a sandbox environment.

I know this is a long post, and I probably repeats my self a couple of times. But all in all I like your story and I like your graphics style. You just need to make up your mind, whether you want to make a multi ending VN or a proper sandbox game. Personally I would prefer the sandbox game with the option to skip parts of the story with fetishes that is not to my liking. But it's much more difficult to make compared to a multi ending VN.

So much
I see your point It's still my first game and it's a very Beta version I will change things once the part 1 is finished.
Yes, Lisa should be already a semi-nympho in the beginning and we could just corrupt her on fetish.
Thank you for your advices, I will se how it's possible to adapt the current story .

 

[Morrigan12345]

So much
I see your point It's still my first game and it's a very Beta version I will change things once the part 1 is finished.
Yes, Lisa should be already a semi-nympho in the beginning and we could just corrupt her on fetish.
Thank you for your advices, I will se how it's possible to adapt the current story .

I have to say that I generally disagree with the last speaker and I think he is leading you astray with this criticism. I think the worst thing is to start with a slutty wife, the longer and slower the transition and the more modest she is initially and the bigger slut she is at the end, the hotter she is. When your wife is a slut right away, it ruins the whole game. And instead of an interactive game, we have a set of porno pictures. And I like that this transition exists in this game, and I personally didn't have a big problem with it happening too fast. (of course it would be better if it was slower, and I hope you add more in-between scenes in the future). And about the sandbox and the novella. To me your game is one of the few examples where the combination (for now) is good, it doesn't feel like you're playing a typical sandbox game and you have to click 200-300 something to get further in the story. But it also doesn't feel like you're just skimping to find the hot scenes. I think it's cool. The only thing I found weird was the combinations of her kinda dominating you, making you cuck, cheating, but also becoming your dog. It's a little confusing, like her nicknames, it's not clear how they differ - and how much it affects her personality. And the pregnancy thing is cool, I hope you don't give up on that, it's a very hot fetish and recdo is common in games. In general, I don't think you've made the typical author mistakes. Usually the classic of such games is 10000 characters, and immediately sex scenes with a minimum of plot. These are typical mistakes of a beginning author (or a game without sex scenes, or games for 1 minute). It's quite an interesting game and it's catching. In general, I hope you will pay more attention to the plot and attitude, I think it is less expensive in terms of resources but just perfectly complement the game (posts on instagram, texting, hints in conversations and all that).And that you won't add more female characters and stuff. More foot fetish, domination and ntr) haha) and I want to say that gorgeous shots, angles, which is undoubtedly a turn-on. I've replayed this game a couple times. And it was interesting.)

 

[Dragofinder]

I have to say that I generally disagree with the last speaker and I think he is leading you astray with this criticism. I think the worst thing is to start with a slutty wife, the longer and slower the transition and the more modest she is initially and the bigger slut she is at the end, the hotter she is. When your wife is a slut right away, it ruins the whole game. And instead of an interactive game, we have a set of porno pictures. And I like that this transition exists in this game, and I personally didn't have a big problem with it happening too fast. (of course it would be better if it was slower, and I hope you add more in-between scenes in the future). And about the sandbox and the novella. To me your game is one of the few examples where the combination (for now) is good, it doesn't feel like you're playing a typical sandbox game and you have to click 200-300 something to get further in the story. But it also doesn't feel like you're just skimping to find the hot scenes. I think it's cool. The only thing I found weird was the combinations of her kinda dominating you, making you cuck, cheating, but also becoming your dog. It's a little confusing, like her nicknames, it's not clear how they differ - and how much it affects her personality. And the pregnancy thing is cool, I hope you don't give up on that, it's a very hot fetish and recdo is common in games. In general, I don't think you've made the typical author mistakes. Usually the classic of such games is 10000 characters, and immediately sex scenes with a minimum of plot. These are typical mistakes of a beginning author (or a game without sex scenes, or games for 1 minute). It's quite an interesting game and it's catching. In general, I hope you will pay more attention to the plot and attitude, I think it is less expensive in terms of resources but just perfectly complement the game (posts on instagram, texting, hints in conversations and all that).And that you won't add more female characters and stuff. More foot fetish, domination and ntr) haha) and I want to say that gorgeous shots, angles, which is undoubtedly a turn-on. I've replayed this game a couple times. And it was interesting.)

Thank you
Yes she is a bit fast to corrupt Clearly, I will look about that when finishing part 1 (I will surely remove repetitive stuff for more little events).
I don't plan on adding characters Just some random guys in the meeting.
For the pregnancy, that will be mandatory even as a pet

 

[GuybrushPeepwood]

Thank you
Yes she is a bit fast to corrupt Clearly, I will look about that when finishing part 1 (I will surely remove repetitive stuff for more little events).
I don't plan on adding characters Just some random guys in the meeting.
For the pregnancy, that will be mandatory even as a pet

I don't like games with too many characters either, quality over quantity imo ^^ I think 1 other girl for some lesbian action or threesome with Saul/Carter would be nice, though. There's always the slutty best friend corrupting the wife and teasing hubby, but she never gets any action
Overall I agree with Morrigan, it's fine imo, but I like the fast pace. Too many of these slow burn games are abandoned before stuff really gets going or just plain boring, with some rare exceptions. Sure, the early/corruption parts could be done better, but whatever, you live and learn.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

I think the worst thing is to start with a slutty wife, the longer and slower the transition and the more modest she is initially and the bigger slut she is at the end, the hotter she is. When your wife is a slut right away, it ruins the whole game.
.
.
.
it doesn't feel like you're playing a typical sandbox game and you have to click 200-300 something to get further in the story.

I think you misunderstand what I wrote. I too would like to see slow corruption of the girls, but slow corruption in a sandbox game is in 99% of the cases endless grinding with 200-300 something to get further, or like in this game. 5 scenes and then she went from faithful prude to cum hungry whore. Both are IMHO pointless. Slow corruption over 50 unique scenes would be perfect, but I can't recall any sandbox games where that happens, unless the corruption is the main story line and not just a phase that needs to be passed to get to the main story line.

The only thing I found weird was the combinations of her kinda dominating you, making you cuck, cheating, but also becoming your dog. It's a little confusing.

This is one of the examples of what I meant about Dragofinder loosing the big picture.

Usually the classic of such games is 10000 characters, and immediately sex scenes with a minimum of plot.

I completely disagree here. Except for a few large games, all sandbox games I've been playing over the last couple of years has less than 15 characters in them, and 99% off them falls into the trap with endless looooooooooooooooooooooooong foreplay and then a 5 sec sex scene. This is a VERY typical mistake IMHO. Not just for sandbox games, but also many VN's.
I'm not asking for sex in the first scene. I'm asking for more sex scenes than foreplay scenes 99% of all games unfortunately has the opposite. On top of that. Almost all foreplay scenes tends to be much longer than any of the sex scenes. It's a very strange priority IMHO. This game is one of the few games that's in the 1% where the balance between foreplay and sex is good. I would even say the balance is VERY good in this game and the sex scenes doesn't come too fast or too slow. The plot and story is one of the better. It's just being messed up, by a sandbox game that looks more like a multi ending VN than a sandbox.

And that you won't add more female characters and stuff.

Well. One of the advantages of a sandbox game is that you can easily add more characters later without forcing the player to start from scratch again.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

Thank you
Yes she is a bit fast to corrupt Clearly, I will look about that when finishing part 1 (I will surely remove repetitive stuff for more little events).
I don't plan on adding characters Just some random guys in the meeting.
For the pregnancy, that will be mandatory even as a pet

Like I wrote a couple of times. I think your ideas and story line are pretty good. The repetitive grinding is far from the average slow burning grinding games I've seen, but it's still point less IMHO. Either spend the time building a slow corruption with many unique scenes or make the character a cum hungry slut from the beginning. A corruption in 5-10 repetetive scenes is pointless IMHO.
Your main problem is that you are trying to write a sandbox game, but doing it in a way where you basically ends up with a multi ending VN.

PS. I will be looking forward to see how you will save the sister if Lisa doesn't go down the pet route.

 

[Morrigan12345]

I think you misunderstand what I wrote. I too would like to see slow corruption of the girls, but slow corruption in a sandbox game is in 99% of the cases endless grinding with 200-300 something to get further, or like in this game. 5 scenes and then she went from faithful prude to cum hungry whore. Both are IMHO pointless. Slow corruption over 50 unique scenes would be perfect, but I can't recall any sandbox games where that happens, unless the corruption is the main story line and not just a phase that needs to be passed to get to the main story line.


This is one of the examples of what I meant about Dragofinder loosing the big picture.


I completely disagree here. Except for a few large games, all sandbox games I've been playing over the last couple of years has less than 15 characters in them, and 99% off them falls into the trap with endless looooooooooooooooooooooooong foreplay and then a 5 sec sex scene. This is a VERY typical mistake IMHO. Not just for sandbox games, but also many VN's.
I'm not asking for sex in the first scene. I'm asking for more sex scenes than foreplay scenes 99% of all games unfortunately has the opposite. On top of that. Almost all foreplay scenes tends to be much longer than any of the sex scenes. It's a very strange priority IMHO. This game is one of the few games that's in the 1% where the balance between foreplay and sex is good. I would even say the balance is VERY good in this game and the sex scenes doesn't come too fast or too slow. The plot and story is one of the better. It's just being messed up, by a sandbox game that looks more like a multi ending VN than a sandbox.


Well. One of the advantages of a sandbox game is that you can easily add more characters later without forcing the player to start from scratch again.

I think there is some confusion in gradations and concepts. Sandboxes in general are a bad format, precisely because grinding kills desire. And developers often abuse this by artificially increasing the grind and making few hot scenes. But in the novella, in fact, the characters are often given to us nominally, and within a couple of scenes they are all having sex (90% games). And here a delicate balance is needed, because the sandbox as a format allows you to go deeper into the game through various interactions.This is when we talk about typical author's mistakes.
In good games (a couple of adventures, culture shock, A long short story, misfits, couple duet, lesson of passion) which are popular. We see this balance, it lies in the fact that initially the wife is not depraved, and there are two ways to deprave her - she dominates and makes you a cuck or you make her a slave and your whore. But at the same time, there is a development of characters and it happens slowly. Here's a question for people - a huge amount of text, it sucks, and should be avoided. The text should be short, to the point, concise and hot, be in the context of events. But the public events themselves are not only text, but also photos, events, social networks, SMS, hints, glances, flirting.But the most important thing is the psychology of relationships. We are excited by images, plots, mental aspects, not so much by images. And the deeper the plot and interaction are developed, the higher the excitement.
What do I see happening with these games. Popular and well thought out, they begin to crumble and fail for three reasons.
1. Author's creativity
Because such a game is first and foremost a work of art. The author eventually wants to add something more creative or improve his skills. (adds science fiction, fantasy, or starts rendering images for months, etc.)
2. Adding a large number of characters and branches
Even three love interests. The game is already crashing. The authors sometimes just add 10-15 different women to the plot. And as a result, the new update takes a long time, secondly, we get less main content and more secondary content, which we don’t like because these characters are poorly developed. As a result, there are too many story threads, one update, one character, and the game is over.
3. Make concessions and compromises.
The author, due to criticism, begins to soften the harsh scenes, listen to everyone and (especially when receiving money) begins to standardize the content
As a result, I believe that the following patterns can be derived
1. The game should have two main characters - you and your love interest, everyone else is secondary and only reveals your main characters.
2.The game is based on the relationship between the two main characters. They should be thoughtful, logical, and there is no need to rush.
3. The better the relationship between these characters is thought out, than hot events of an erotic nature (not necessarily long, but logical and thoughtful, motivation, causes, consequences)
4. Diversity in ways of conveying and revealing the plot (Scenes, SMS, calls, photos, etc.).
5. Preserving the reality of what is happening and the relationship between the event and everyday life (for example, it’s strange when your Wife cheats on you, you peep, she knows that you are doing this, but this is not reflected in ordinary dialogues
6. Proper distribution of resources.
Authors often suffer from the fact that they are constantly trying to create complex animated highly technical graphic scenes. I believe that updates should be dense and frequent. To do this, you need to actively use various methods of adding eroticism. (For example, like the feature with nicknames, the idea is great in this regard - I think in terms of resources for its implementation, it is not complicated, but it leaves an impression, for example, you can add a tattoo, or more revealing clothes (also good in this game).
P.S.
And I want to say that so far today the Author of this game is doing everything almost perfectly. The balance is maintained, the transition from a normal girl to a whore is too fast and that’s all. He also has very distinctive ideas, plots, good camera angles, and a variety of tools used. And I really wouldn’t want him to be led astray. Let’s say if initially, instead of corrupting his wife, they immediately make her a whore, which seems to me to have a very bad effect on the plot. Let her be a little fidgety, flighty, but definitely not a whore right away. h

 

[Dragofinder]

Thank you guys for those advices

Let her be a little fidgety, flighty, but definitely not a whore right away

That's could be a good start!

PS. I will be looking forward to see how you will save the sister if Lisa doesn't go down the pet route.

There might be some surprises

 

[polaco]

So I did some more playing, and I have to say. You probably made almost all the mistakes a newbie developer can make.
What I'm writing below isn't criticism. It's suggestions for you on how to improve your game. You can use them if you like, or you can discard them if you think I'm wrong.

I understand the part of her wanting to become pregnant, but in the beginning she won't even talk about having sex with anyone but MC, but suddenly after a few repeated scenes, she is suddenly a cum hungry whore who would let anyone but MC creampie her. Why not simply start with her as a cum hungry whore and ditch the pointless grinding?

Whether she should let other creampie her with consent or not is a matter of personal fetish. Personally I prefer the girls to be faithful and sex with anyone but their partner is none consensual, but I do know not many share that view, so I'm fine with either. I just can't stand when a girl is turned from a faithful prude to a cum hungry slut in a matter of 5-10 grinding scenes. It's done in many games, but waste of development time IMHO.

Regarding the sandbox versus VN, you actually managed to combine the worst from the sandbox with the worst from VN's. You story has, in a very short time, become so complex with so many different endings, that I think you lost the big picture your self. I've discovered about 6 different paths so far, which is something that annoys me A LOT in a VN. I've seen many VN's with multiple endings and it always annoys me that you have to save at the right times (never told when a decision is important or not) in order to be able to play the different ending without having to start from scratch. With different ending, I don't just mean consensual versus none consensual sex/creampie, but different content, like MC's bet with his friend or the pet training. In a few good VN's they have built in restart points, so you easily can play another ending without having to start from scratch. But multiple endings are never good IMHO. It should be up to the story teller to decide the path and not waste development time on different endings.
In short. Please think twice before adding yet another path/ending. Why waste time on developing a path/ending that not everyone will see. It's ok to have story parts that you can skip, like the bet or the pet training, but skipping a story part shouldn't mean a different ending. In fact, I think having story parts that you can skip if it's not your fetish, makes the game better, just as having different moods like consensual/none consensual sex/creampies. The story line is the same, while the mood of the girl is different. Like with the last model scene where Lisa is completely immobilized. The story line will be exactly the same, but in the consensual mood she will encourage the guy to fuck her and fill her, while in the none consensual mood, either MC will allow the guy to fuck her and he will fill her with or without their consent or the guy will send MC away and fuck and fill Lisa without their consent.

If your game had been a proper sandbox game, the 3 story lines with the 3 additional guys would run in parallel. It could be Lisa and her boss before noon, the modeling job in the afternoon/weekends and MC's friend in the evening/weekends. That would leave morning and night for MC and Lisa alone. I know that the pet story is going across some of the paths, but it's not uncommon in a sandbox game that a story line is sometime on pause while waiting for another story line to catch up. But it requires development and story telling skills to get it right.

Regarding grinding/repeated scenes, you have them all to the end. Every morning it's a mandatory kitchen scene and in the evening it's a mandatory living room scene. You never see that in a proper sandbox game.
On top of that I saw a number of minor errors.

• you can sometime give Lisa a present in the kitchen without her being there
• Sometimes Lisa could go to work in the weekends.
• there were a masturbation scene in the bathroom which would repeat in a different version if you switched away from the bathroom and back. Time never progress
• Some of the model scenes with Lisa ends kind of abrupt, where you are suddenly back in the living room with the mandatory evening scene.
• A proper sandbox game never has an end of story. It comes to a point where there are no more quests to perform, but there will always be some scenes that you can replay, like the current morning and evening scenes. They should just not be mandatory.

Some of those errors might be because I didn't follow the decision path you have laid out, but this is exactly what is going to happen when you try to make a multi ending VN in a sandbox environment.

I know this is a long post, and I probably repeats my self a couple of times. But all in all I like your story and I like your graphics style. You just need to make up your mind, whether you want to make a multi ending VN or a proper sandbox game. Personally I would prefer the sandbox game with the option to skip parts of the story with fetishes that is not to my liking. But it's much more difficult to make compared to a multi ending VN.

While I agree on the criticism towards sandbox games, I don't agree that multiple paths and choices are a bad idea. Choices are extremelly important especially in ntr games since they are so reliant on the relationship and the consequences of the fetish in that relationship.
Having multiple paths that don't converge at any point and have nothing to do with each other is not a good idea, games that do that often end up simply telling multiple linear stories instead of creating a complex and well thought narrative. But choices that change the relation between the wife and the friend or who gets her pregnant for instance are a great idea, and If those options lead to multiple endings it will give more weight to your decisions and a reason to replay the game for different outcomes.

 

[FelixCreep]

This game is hot in the most intense meaning of the word!

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

Sandboxes in general are a bad format, precisely because grinding kills desire. And developers often abuse this by artificially increasing the grind and making few hot scenes. But in the novella, in fact, the characters are often given to us nominally, and within a couple of scenes they are all having sex (90% games). And here a delicate balance is needed, because the sandbox as a format allows you to go deeper into the game through various interactions.This is when we talk about typical author's mistakes.

I think you and I have different preferences when it comes to sandbox versus VN's. And we apparently also have played very different games so far.
A sandbox game doesn't have to be endless grinding, but I do agree that there are many bad and lazy dev's out there who extend the length of their game through grinding instead of a good story line. A good story line don't need grinding. Not in a sandbox and not in a VN. And a good story line can make a good game in both in a sandbox and VN. The different is that in a sandbox the player decide the pace of the game and which character he/she want to focus on, while in a VN the dev. makes those decisions for the player.
And when it comes to sex scenes, I would definitely prefer an early sex scene rather than endless foreplay, which in 99% of the case is just grinding, both in sandboxes and VN's. And I don't like when you have to go through 10 types of blowjobs, handjobs, petting etc. before you get to the sex scene.

Since you like long foreplay, I'm surprised that you like this game, because there is sex in almost the first scene, which IMHO fits the story. IMHO it would also fit the story in this game if Lisa was a cum hungry whore from the first scene.
As I wrote before. The story line in this game is good, so is the graphics. My only problem is the dev's. lack of knowledge of how to make a proper sandbox game. The way the story has been presented so far, is as a VN in a sandbox environment. If the repetitive scenes are removed and the paths with Saul, Carter and Creed (hope I got their names right) are made to run parallel, then it would be a good sandbox game.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

While I agree on the criticism towards sandbox games, I don't agree that multiple paths and choices are a bad idea. Choices are extremelly important especially in ntr games since they are so reliant on the relationship and the consequences of the fetish in that relationship.
Having multiple paths that don't converge at any point and have nothing to do with each other is not a good idea, games that do that often end up simply telling multiple linear stories instead of creating a complex and well thought narrative. But choices that change the relation between the wife and the friend or who gets her pregnant for instance are a great idea, and If those options lead to multiple endings it will give more weight to your decisions and a reason to replay the game for different outcomes.

I think you misunderstand what I wrote.

I don't criticizes sandbox games. I like sandbox games with all their choices etc. I criticizes sandbox games where length is achieved through grinding rather than good story lines, which unfortunately is quite common.

Please don't confuse multiple endings with multiple paths. It's two very different things. I like multiple paths that converge, but I hate multiple endings. Like when the main girl has to chose between becoming a whore or a faithful wife and from this point it's 2 very different story lines. Now the dev have to maintain 2 story lines and the result is often that neither are good and the updates are fewer and with less content. Unless you maintain a save hierarchy you will have to start from scratch every time to play both story lines.
In a sandbox game you can have multiple parallel paths/story lines, which is far from the same as multiple endings.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

Thank you guys for those advices

One of the technical better sandbox games I've seen is Club Detention. https://f95zone.to/threads/club-detention-v0-063-hotfix-2-yorma86.120015/ It's a proper sandbox game IMHO. His main problem is slow progress of the story line due to running in many directions at the same time, which unfortunately means he falls into the grinding trap. But technically his sandbox is very good. His story line is just progressing too slow, which is why I in the end ditched the game.

IMHO, you have a good story line with a good progress, but you sandbox game is technical bad. Hope you can get some ideas of how to improve if you try to play club detention for a while. Don't focus on the stats grinding of his game. It's a bad thing from the early stages of the game development. Instead look at how he uses the character and surroundings to activate dialogs, and how he has multiple parallel story lines which from time to time interact.
Also. He has Easter eggs in his game. Like the clerk in the convenient shop. She has her own short story line, which has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the game. It has an interesting surprising ending.

 

[Morrigan12345]

I think you and I have different preferences when it comes to sandbox versus VN's. And we apparently also have played very different games so far.
A sandbox game doesn't have to be endless grinding, but I do agree that there are many bad and lazy dev's out there who extend the length of their game through grinding instead of a good story line. A good story line don't need grinding. Not in a sandbox and not in a VN. And a good story line can make a good game in both in a sandbox and VN. The different is that in a sandbox the player decide the pace of the game and which character he/she want to focus on, while in a VN the dev. makes those decisions for the player.
And when it comes to sex scenes, I would definitely prefer an early sex scene rather than endless foreplay, which in 99% of the case is just grinding, both in sandboxes and VN's. And I don't like when you have to go through 10 types of blowjobs, handjobs, petting etc. before you get to the sex scene.

Since you like long foreplay, I'm surprised that you like this game, because there is sex in almost the first scene, which IMHO fits the story. IMHO it would also fit the story in this game if Lisa was a cum hungry whore from the first scene.
As I wrote before. The story line in this game is good, so is the graphics. My only problem is the dev's. lack of knowledge of how to make a proper sandbox game. The way the story has been presented so far, is as a VN in a sandbox environment. If the repetitive scenes are removed and the paths with Saul, Carter and Creed (hope I got their names right) are made to run parallel, then it would be a good sandbox game.

Yes, obviously we have different preferences, gaming experiences and perceptions. I specifically stipulated that it's not about the length of the foreplay, but the quality of their logical thinking. This game is fine, I've played it, and I'm fine with it, as I said. The sex scene is almost in the first scene with the husband, it doesn't look like what the heroine is a cum hungry slut. When you talk about sandboxing, I envision a game like Big Brother where there are many characters and you have to do many actions, including repetitive ones (like going into a room 6 times at 6pm, etc) to get 1 episode where a character exposes her shoulder. - And I don't like that. Those are two extremes to me, and balance is very important. This game has it, it's its own, it's the author's, but it's there, and that's why it's a great game and I like it.
I think the main difference between sandbox and vn is not in this. In vn often we can do the same (choose and build relationships with that character and the way we want, and in sandboxes this may not be as in Big Brother, where to go from one girl to another must end all the event with her). The main difference is the depth of immersion, we do not just make a choice of two or three, but also perform ordinary actions (eat, go to work, etc.), which increases the level of immersiveness and involvement of the player in the story (the same exists in conventional games, when in a shooter you can play pool, pay money stripper, draw on the wall something, etc.).

 

[Morrigan12345]

In general, I am writing all this for one purpose. To demonstrate to the Creator that there are a lot of different views, and that there is no right and wrong, and that there are absolutely opposite views on how everything should be, and that the Author should focus only on himself. And there is already an audience to match his views.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

When you talk about sandboxing, I envision a game like Big Brother where there are many characters and you have to do many actions, including repetitive ones (like going into a room 6 times at 6pm, etc) to get 1 episode where a character exposes her shoulder. - And I don't like that."

Neither do I, but grinding is the result of bad story line. Not the result of it being a sandbox game.
The only reason you don't see this kind of grinding in a VN, is because it's one long story line without the option to jump around in the story. So if a dev. forced you to do the same activity 6 times in a row or the same 5 activities in the same sequence 6 times in a row, you would immediately ditch that VN. In a sandbox you can often choose other activities too, so you get a little longer slack. It's still not a sandbox problem. It's purely bad story line. Games that include that kind of grinding, would probably be bad in a VN format too.

I think the main difference between sandbox and vn is not in this. In vn often we can do the same (choose and build relationships with that character and the way we want, and in sandboxes this may not be as in Big Brother, where to go from one girl to another must end all the event with her). The main difference is the depth of immersion, we do not just make a choice of two or three, but also perform ordinary actions (eat, go to work, etc.), which increases the level of immersiveness and involvement of the player in the story (the same exists in conventional games, when in a shooter you can play pool, pay money stripper, draw on the wall something, etc.).

You are dead wrong on this. The difference between a sandbox and an VN is quite simple.
A VN is like watching a movie. The director has cut the movie and decided which scene you should see when. You might have some choices which will influence the ending of the movie, but that's it.
In a sandbox, you are cutting the movie by deciding which scene, character and location to play when.

There are many sandbox games where you don't do the daily things like eat, got to work, sleep etc. It's possible to do in a sandbox game, but definitely not required and generally makes a bad game. Stats grinding is not a requirement for a sandbox game either, but if its there, you will normally be able to decide which stats to work on when. And if a stat is too low for a choice you want to make, you can often improve the stat and come back and try again.

In a VN, there might be choices where you can decide to follow one path to one ending or another path to another ending, but as soon as you have made your choice, you are stuck with that path. There might also be stats which will change based on your choices. Bases on those stats your choices will be limited or expanded later in the story. In a VN you will not be able to improve stats if you made a bad choice earlier on in the story.

There are pitfalls in both of sandbox and VN games, but a bad story line will never be a good game no matter which type of game you write.

With that, I think we should stop this discussion, since we clearly have very different view on what a sandbox is and the advantages of it, and what a VN is and the advantages of it.

 

[ustar]

One of the technical better sandbox games I've seen is Club Detention. https://f95zone.to/threads/club-detention-v0-063-hotfix-2-yorma86.120015/ It's a proper sandbox game IMHO. His main problem is slow progress of the story line due to running in many directions at the same time, which unfortunately means he falls into the grinding trap. But technically his sandbox is very good. His story line is just progressing too slow, which is why I in the end ditched the game.

IMHO, you have a good story line with a good progress, but you sandbox game is technical bad. Hope you can get some ideas of how to improve if you try to play club detention for a while. Don't focus on the stats grinding of his game. It's a bad thing from the early stages of the game development. Instead look at how he uses the character and surroundings to activate dialogs, and how he has multiple parallel story lines which from time to time interact.
Also. He has Easter eggs in his game. Like the clerk in the convenient shop. She has her own short story line, which has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the game. It has an interesting surprising ending.

You have some good points.
Sandbox is good in the idea (have live game and can do what you want when you want), but as you mentioned you dropped that game, because it's progress was too slow even if sandbox was right - that is the main problem of the sandbox games, they progress too slow and most of time they are empty and that is because they should be done by group or entire studio of people who work on the project in parallel to do it efficiently! If you are single person developer then I am against making advanced sandbox game unless you are willing to work on it very very very long time (fit the game you have mentioned).
This game sandbox is not that bad, because it's mostly story and not much empty locations with nothing to do.

 

[MasterGamer1234567890]

but as you mentioned you dropped that game, because it's progress was too slow even if sandbox was right - that is the main problem of the sandbox games, they progress too slow

No. It's not a sandbox problem. It's a story line problem. I've dropped many VN's too, because they are just grinding away too.

If you play Club Detention, you will see that there is at least 5 spy paths with different girls, which would lead to sex, but the dev. has decided to stop each path just before the sex. According to himself. He want to progress the main story line more before releasing the sex scenes. Personally I think he gets a kick out of leave us hanging with blue balls every time.