RPGM Lisa [v3.1.3A] [PaleGrass]

[desmosome]

It's not by choice mate, Patreon would immediately close my account if I hardcoded "Step-Mom" into the game, it was this way upon release but I had to go back and change it from the ground up. Believe me it's been nothing but hassle for me either

Even if I were to tell everyone on a Patreon post "use these relations as this is canon" I am concerned that they would immediately shut the page down :\ Patreon defines incest as anyone who has even slightly familial bonds regardless of whether they share a bloodline and there is no argument with them, it's written directly into their ToS.

I understand, but the way it is now is the worst of both worlds. It does a bad job of portraying any form of incest, be it mom, stepmom, or aunt. It also does a bad job of portraying a non family dynamic. I guess you did the best you could to cover various different relations. I think that is fundamentally the wrong approach to it though. You need to sacrifice either the incest or the non-incest in the script.

You can write the script so that it makes sense with the incest relationship. This will naturally sound really stupid if you don't use the incest relationships. Certain situations and dialogues just don't make sense if you are not related. You just have to trust the players to have common sense with these things and use the correct relation.

On the other hand, you can also just remove the incest. For example, Sharon is mom's best friend who took you in after mom dies. She doesn't have to be a step mom. It's entirely believable for a family friend to become a child's guardian without adopting them. And they would just refer to each other by their names while still acting like a family unit. You can still let people change relations, but it shouldn't be supported in the script if it leads to awkward text on the default non-incest version.

Personally, I would just go with option 2 for this specific game. It doesn't seem like incest is a particularly strong theme anyways. But hey, that's just my opinion. It would be a pain in the ass to change things again and there would obviously be people hell bent on having some incest no matter how poorly it is implemented.

 

[EdPokol]

you can change the character definitions in Lisa's room by interacting with the little dresser there

Wonderful, that does the trick. Everything is back to 'normal' again. Thnx!

 

[lg10]

In the instagram intro quest, i met this men who wanted my autograph but after that, i can't search for that model in laptop. Can any of you guys help me...i played that 3 drinks bar event after that and did that had any effect on saves?

 

[Caninenappe]

Hey here as usual I was eager to see the new update, always impressed with the work done when I played it with a special mention on the sharing scene with in the bath hub (the rendering of the expressions of the Lisa's face and the feeling of the feelings is incredible). Now I'm already waiting for the next stage, hoping that it will always be longer than the previous one.
Congratulations pale grass and all the team that helps you.

 

[neronwtf]

In the instagram intro quest, i met this men who wanted my autograph but after that, i can't search for that model in laptop. Can any of you guys help me...i played that 3 drinks bar event after that and did that had any effect on saves?

You should go check in the PC in Lisa's bedroom. I don't remember if you can do it only at night or you can do it whenever you want.

 

[lg10]

You should go check in the PC in Lisa's bedroom. I don't remember if you can do it only at night or you can do it whenever you want.

Tried that bro, still not able to access the laptop.

 

[neronwtf]

Tried that bro, still not able to access the laptop.

Stupid question maybe but did your MC has already created an instagram account? Did you take some pictures around the city?

 

[Shackie]

In the instagram intro quest, i met this men who wanted my autograph but after that, i can't search for that model in laptop. Can any of you guys help me...i played that 3 drinks bar event after that and did that had any effect on saves?

Instagram photo locations
Beach - Summer Blouse & Jeans (Morning / Afternoon)
Tom Hortons - Summer Blouse & Jeans (Morning / Afternoon)
School Lounge (Game start) - Camisole & Cardigan (Afternoon)
School Art Room (East Wing) - Summer Blouse & Jeans (Afternoon)
Shower (Lisa's House 2F) - Any clothing (Any time)
Renshire Forest - Summer Blouse & Jeans (Morning / Afternoon)
Renshire Town Center (Near the clothes shop) - Black Sports Set (Morning / Afternoon)
Albiss Hub (MUST HAVE WORKED THAT DAY) - Summer Blouse & Jeans (Morning / Afternoon)

 

[Mephist]

How can I get to fitness level 5 or is that not possible yet? I keep running but it stays at level 4

 

[redharvest1]

How can I get to fitness level 5 or is that not possible yet? I keep running but it stays at level 4

Go jogging in the town center.

 

[TheLecher]

...You need to sacrifice either the incest or the non-incest in the script.

You can write the script so that it makes sense with the incest relationship...

On the other hand, you can also just remove the incest...

Personally, I would just go with option 2 for this specific game. It doesn't seem like incest is a particularly strong theme anyways. But hey, that's just my opinion. It would be a pain in the ass to change things again and there would obviously be people hell bent on having some incest no matter how poorly it is implemented.

Since the user defined relationship system works, and all that is needed is for PaleGrass to remember to use variables in dialogue, rather than writing in static relationships like "aunt" or "mom", which I believe he now has under control, there is no reason to change anything. This is especially true because, as you pointed out yourself, it would be a pain in the ass for him to have to rewrite the entire opening of the game again. PaleGrass already has his hands full, just keeping up with the ongoing development of the game. Putting development on hold, in order to fix something which doesn't need fixing, doesn't sound like a good use of development time or resources.

 

[moozoo]

Are you playing the Final V1 or the Beta?

Beta. Downloaded Final and the problem is gone. Thank you.

 

[desmosome]

Since the user defined relationship system works, and all that is needed is for PaleGrass to remember to use variables in dialogue, rather than writing in static relationships like "aunt" or "mom", which I believe he now has under control, there is no reason to change anything. This is especially true because, as you pointed out yourself, it would be a pain in the ass for him to have to rewrite the entire opening of the game again. PaleGrass already has his hands full, just keeping up with the ongoing development of the game. Putting development on hold, in order to fix something which doesn't need fixing, doesn't sound like a good use of development time or resources.

There are some fundamental issues that prevents user input relations from working for both incest and non-incest variants if all you do is rely on the user input relationship.

Just some common examples. "[Mom], I missed you so much!" vs "[Landlady/mom's friend/neighbor], I missed you so much!" That second one is stupid, so maybe the dev will decide to use the name instead of the relationship here. "Sharon, I missed you so much!" Oops, now the incest version doesn't work. Other common issues include things like "Oh no... this is my landlady... it's wrong to think about her this way!"

That's the gist of my position on user input relations. The script must be written to support one specific intended relationship. Writing a script that vaguely "works" for multiple scenarios will lead to a script that doesn't work for any. Whether the dev decides to do something about it is not my concern with the critique. It is debatable whether enough people value dialogues and scenarios that make sense to warrant the added work in looking over the script. I personally stopped playing at the intro after being unable to find any relationship setting that prevents inconsistencies in the script.

Adoptive mom is supposedly canon, but that is an incredibly complex relationship that cannot be satisfied with just one relationship variable. Instead, if Sharon was just Lisa's mom's best friend who took her in and became her guardian (without adopting her), we got a similar relationship dynamic with some taboo intact. It doesn't even need user input relations to hide from patreon.

 

[TheLecher]

There are some fundamental issues that prevents user input relations from working for both incest and non-incest variants if all you do is rely on the user input relationship.

Just some common examples. "[Mom], I missed you so much!" vs "[Landlady/mom's friend/neighbor], I missed you so much!" That second one is stupid, so maybe the dev will decide to use the name instead of the relationship here. "Sharon, I missed you so much!" Oops, now the incest version doesn't work. Other common issues include things like "Oh no... this is my landlady... it's wrong to think about her this way!"

I don't think you understand how variables work in RPGM. The developer can use a variable, instead of a name, when writing the dialogue. The variable will correspond to user input. For the line you offered above, he can write "[variable], I missed you so much!", where variable is a value which corresponds to the user input for the relationship, which is set at the beginning of the game. For the people who want to set incestuous relationships, it will then read "Mom (or Aunt, or whatever), I missed you so much!" For people who want to avoid incest, it says something else.

The only problem with this happens when the developer forgets to write dialogue using [variable], and instead writes the dialogue using actual relationship terms. For example, because the intro of the game states that Lisa's parents were killed, but because I still want her relationship with Sharon to be incestuous, I set the relationship to aunt/niece. Despite this, there were a couple of times in the first release of the game when Lisa referred to Sharon as "Mom", which shows that the developer failed to use the variable in the dialogue. This has only happened a couple of times in the game, so far as I know, and I believe that all such instances have now been corrected.

Also, some people do refer to their parents by their first names, especially after they themselves reach adulthood, so Lisa calling Sharon by her name doesn't necessary mess up the incest version, at least for some people. I never would have called either of my parents by their first name, but I've known several people who do so.

That's the gist of my position on user input relations. The script must be written to support one specific intended relationship.

As I said above, no, it does not have to be written one way or the other. With proper use of variables, the same dialogue can automatically adjust to reflect the user input for relationships.

 

[desmosome]

I don't think you understand how variables work in RPGM. The developer can use a variable, instead of a name, when writing the dialogue. The variable will correspond to user input. For the line you offered above, he can write "[variable], I missed you so much!", where variable is a value which corresponds to the user input for the relationship, which is set at the beginning of the game. For the people who want to set incestuous relationships, it will then read "Mom (or Aunt, or whatever), I missed you so much!" For people who want to avoid incest, it says something else.

The only problem with this happens when the developer forgets to write dialogue using [variable], and instead writes the dialogue using actual relationship terms. For example, because the intro of the game states that Lisa's parents were killed, but because I still want her relationship with Sharon to be incestuous, I set the relationship to aunt/niece. Despite this, there were a couple of times in the first release of the game when Lisa referred to Sharon as "Mom", which shows that the developer failed to use the variable in the dialogue. This has only happened a couple of times in the game, so far as I know, and I believe that all such instances have now been corrected.

Also, some people do refer to their parents by their first names, especially after they themselves reach adulthood, so Lisa calling Sharon by her name doesn't necessary mess up the incest version, at least for some people. I never would have called either of my parents by their first name, but I've known several people who do so.



As I said above, no, it does not have to be written one way or the other. With proper use of variables, the same dialogue can automatically adjust to reflect the user input for relationships.

Did you read what I wrote? I just told you why the relationship variable runs into problems when used in a sentence. You can argue that it isn't worth it to go back and address the issue, but you are refuting my points without even understanding it.

What will happen for people who don't want incest? Will they have to keep reading things like "Landlady, I missed you so much!" And what about incest fans? Will they have to keep reading Lisa referring to Sharon by her name? Do you not understand the fundamental incompatibility? You cannot write a single script that can make both versions sound natural.

It seems like you are arguing for the dev to support the incest version by using the relationship variable whenever Lisa refers to Sharon. That is one solution that I already talked about. You write the script for incest or non-incest and then sacrifice the other version. If you use the relationship variable whenever Lisa addresses Sharon, it will only make sense for incest. Landlady, mom's friend, or anything like that will not make sense in the same sentence.

 

[TheLecher]

Did you read what I wrote?

I think that it's very clear that I did read what you wrote, since I responded directly to the points you raised.

I just told you why the relationship variable runs into problems when used in a sentence. You can argue that it isn't worth it to go back and address the issue, but you are refuting my points without even understanding it.

No, I am refuting your points while understanding them. I am saying that you are mistaken. And I'm saying that it's probably because you don't understand how variables can be used in RPGM to control how dialogue is displayed. There wouldn't be anything surprising about that, since most people don't have any experience in writing events in RPGM, so they wouldn't be expected to know how to use variables.

What will happen for people who don't want incest? Will they have to keep reading things like "Landlady, I missed you so much!" And what about incest fans? Will they have to keep reading Lisa referring to Sharon by her name? Do you not understand the fundamental incompatibility? You cannot write a single script that can make both versions sound natural.

Why would they have to keep reading things like that? It isn't anymore necessary for Lisa to refer to Sharon as "Landlady" than it is for her to say "Mom" or "Sharon." The same dialogue can display in any or none of those ways, based on user input for the relationship.

Yes, you can - I repeat, you can - write a single script which can make both versions sound natural. All you have to do is set up conditional branches in your dialogue events, and have those branches check for variables, and then display the text which corresponds to the specified variable. And you set the variables, based on user input. You can set them to display the text entered by the user, if that's what you want, but then you end up with things like you mentioned, such as Lisa calling Sharon "Landlady", when that was the relationship specified. But you can also set it to display something else. For example, you could set it so that Lisa will call Sharon by her name, if their relationship is landlady/tenant or family friend or whatever-you-please, and have her call Sharon "Mom", if their relationship was set to mother/daughter.

If you know how to set up conditional branches and how to configure the variables, there is no reason why you cannot have both versions working just fine.

It seems like you are arguing for the dev to support the incest version by using the relationship variable whenever Lisa refers to Sharon. That is one solution that I already talked about. You write the script for incest or non-incest and then sacrifice the other version. If you use the relationship variable whenever Lisa addresses Sharon, it will only make sense for incest. Landlady, mom's friend, or anything like that will not make sense in the same sentence.

No, I am not arguing to support the incest version. Nor am I arguing to support the non-incest version. I'm saying that you don't have to choose between them. I'm saying that there's no need whatsoever to sacrifice either one, and that the user defined relationship can work just fine, if it is set up properly.

And, so far, it doesn't seem to be a major problem. We've had a few people point out inconsistencies in the dialogue, in places where PaleGrass forgot to let user input define dialogue, but we haven't seen a bunch of people complaining that the system doesn't work or should be changed. If we've gotten this far in the development of the game, and you're the only person who has seriously suggested that the system doesn't work, then I have to think that it isn't a game-breaker. It certainly doesn't seem like something which would justify a major rewrite.

 

[desmosome]

Yes, you can - I repeat, you can - write a single script which can make both versions sound natural. All you have to do is set up conditional branches in your dialogue events, and have those branches check for variables, and then display the text which corresponds to the specified variable. And you set the variables, based on user input. You can set them to display the text entered by the user, if that's what you want, but then you end up with things like you mentioned, such as Lisa calling Sharon "Landlady", when that was the relationship specified. But you can also set it to display something else. For example, you could set it so that Lisa will call Sharon by her name, if their relationship is landlady/tenant or family friend or whatever-you-please, and have her call Sharon "Mom", if their relationship was set to mother/daughter.

Ok...? We went from user input relationship to conditional dialogues?

What you are describing is essentially writing different scripts and is much more extensive than the user input relationship. You want if/else statements every time to check if sharon_relationship = mom | mother | mommy | aunt, etc.? Or do you want to switch an incest flag on if you entered something specific? That is obviously writing different "scripts" for the incest and non-incest. In case you want to be pedantic and act like you don't understand what I meant by "script," I was referring to a single non-conditional text line that could fit both incest and non-incest values of [sharon_relationship]. I didn't look under the hood because well, I don't know how to for RPGM, but I always check the script file on renpy. Not sure why you assumed I had no idea on how this works.

Why is this relevant? Having code that supports incest is also against patreon policy, in case you didn't know. You can't have code that turns on "incest mode" if you meet some conditions. Nor could you check the sharon_relationship value and display certain lines if it meets some predefined incest relationship. It's possible to fly under the radar, as many games actually do have incest patches that "turns on" incest by switching a flag. That is technically bounds for banning if they get reported and they take the time to look at the code.

You seem to have poor reading comprehension, so I will just leave things here. Not like I want to convince a random dude on F95zone.

 

[SubtleHustle]

Outside of my gripes for rpgmaker, this game is pretty good. I'm having issues with the game going to black screen towards what I believe to be near the end of this scene "Swim Trip 1-15-46 Double donk.png"

It's a shame because I did perform a save right before starting the hotwife path. But somewhere in that following pool scene the rpgm window goes black and the music keeps playing. That's a very long scene with no way of saving somewhere in the middle to my knowledge. Three for three for this happening so far.

Running an arch linux derivative with nwjs-v0.63.1-linux-x64.

 

[cold_arctus]

You seem to have poor reading comprehension, so I will just leave things here. Not like I want to convince a random dude on F95zone.

Desmosome, can you knock it down a bit? Your last few post in this thread come off way to aggressive and arrogant which makes you look like unlikable passive-aggressive person.

Your point how the games sets relationship in the script is valid; it's not the best in my opinion.

Is there a way to change it, so that incest (mom/aunt) and non-incest (landlady/best-friend) are supported? Yes. Problem here: PaleGrass doesn't know how to. He isn't a coder and not familiar with JavaScript.

As Lecher pointed out RPGMaker supports dialogue branches for different variables. Since the incest is mostly limited to Sharon, PaleGrass doesn't need to write two different sets of dialogues. However, minor adjustments will be needed. He even could distribute future content with her as a patch file on Lewdpachter same as we are used to for RenPy games.

Of course it is much easier to replace entire blocks of dialogues in RenPy using Python code than in RPGMaker but you can achieve almost the same with a third party plugin that reads the dialogues from a text file.

Anyway, the question is, if PaleGrass is able to do it and willing to go through all the dialogues and make the necessary adjustments to support dynamic dialogues, which would fix inconsistencies.

 

[JackBone373]

So when "John Cena" party will happen?
On the next update or still long way?