VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Joratox]

A bit of a reply for DeviantFun.
I could probably go for your post and respond sentence by sentence and show you how you twist the story to get your point across. You probably even believe it and understand it this way, because of your bias that shows a lot when talking about Lacey's behavior. The thing is some people defend her too much, while you attack her in the same way...too much
I'll just give a few examples of how you are in a hurry don't take your time to understand, because you already have an opinion formed.

This game doesn't seem to be about the sort of stealing you mean here, what is stolen is genuine trust and intimacy that MC and FMC will not be able to enjoy for the forseeable future, unless we get some sort of forced deus ex machina.

Enlight is talking about how this game is different from other NTR games, where the only reason the FMC cheats is because hurr durr big dick. But, in your hurry, you think he's talking about this game and how Lacey is a size queen. You are in fact correct that what is stolen here is more emotional than physical, which is what Enlight meant in the first place.

I would llike to remind, that while MC is at the cliffs about to end it all, she is joking around with Mia about Isaac dick size.

And again you conveniently forget that before "issac dick size" she is actually defending the MC and saying he has a big dick, not a dingus. They weren't joking around about it (well, Mia joked at the end, but not Lacey). So you either missed the whole point of that discussion or you mentioned the dick size to get your opinion validated. And the "dick" discussion was before they realized the MC is at the cliffs...the moment they realize that, they go into overdrive to get there and make sure he is ok (they way you formulated your post makes it like they already are aware that MC is at cliffs and they still talk about dicks)

MC jealousy is a byproduct of the lies and the absolute lack of trust

One more time when you don't take the time to understand, because you already have an opinion formed about it. MC's jealousy stems from his total devotion to what I call "savior complex", he made his whole world about protecting Lacey. If he thinks that Lacey doesn't need him anymore, all hell breaks loose in his head and it drives him mad to the point of suicide. He's not only jealous of her sleeping around, he's afraid she will get to a point when he is not needed and then his whole life wouldn't be worthy or make any sense.

Her mind having issues is not a justification, I will repeat myself here: trauma can be a reason but not a justification.

Well, how about that ? Why can't trauma be both a reason and a justification ? Because it's exactly what's going on. It's not a justification when you look at it from the perspective of a sane person. When you are the one that is sick, it's totally justifiable.

I can go on, but I'll stop. I don't want this to become an attack on your person. Just saying to take a look on how your bias is coloring your thinking. Sorry I kinda went on a rant targeting your post, it somewhat annoyed me because there is a lot explained by the dev, but you cherrypicked things to fit your opinion, while ignoring the other parts ( I don't even know if you did it to make a point here or this is really the way you've understood the story). I may have been a bit triggered by other comments that reduce everything to "simp" "cringe" "whore" (it annoys me to no end to see this kind of talk about a dev that clearly put a lot of effort into creating a compelling narrative) and I went off on your post, because it was more detailed and you seemed to be actually interested in the game, instead of those others that just say 1 sentence

I may not be right on this, but the story makes sense when you actually look at it not as a reader and a normal/sane person. Of course, in this case you would totally be correct in saying the MC is weak and idiotic, while the FMC is a manipulative hoe. It's a simple way to put them in a category like that. The truth is a lot more nuanced. They are both suffering from traumas, both self-inflicted and inflicted by others. They are both flawed, they are both making a lot of mistakes and they are both looking to fix this in their own ways (the MC can't self diagnose with his issues, while the FMC is somewhat aware on her issues, but at the same time can't think of normal solutions to them). It does seem that they get somewhat better at communication and understanding each other towards the end of the Act 1, we'll see how that goes forward.

Also, I've said it before in this thread (I think you did too at some point), there is a lot of "porn logic" and there is a need to suspend your belief on some parts (the most glaring one to me is when all the girls are watching the Lacey/Damian thing on the TV, but there are a lot of others points). I'm not expecting some grand story-telling, but it is refreshing to see this much on a "porn game".

 

[DeviantFun]

A bit of a reply for DeviantFun.
I could probably go for your post and respond sentence by sentence and show you how you twist the story to get your point across. You probably even believe it and understand it this way, because of your bias that shows a lot when talking about Lacey's behavior. The thing is some people defend her too much, while you attack her in the same way...too much
I'll just give a few examples of how you are in a hurry don't take your time to understand, because you already have an opinion formed.

Before saying this you should have gone through my whole post history .
I really think that many misconceptions come from inconsistencies in the writing, for example, you cannot tell me that being groped on the ass does not ring any alarm bells on an abused child.
My problem probably stems from too much knowledge about the topics that the game revolves about: child abuse, drug use and trauma.
There are some obvious behaviours that are well described and match competely with addiction.

Enlight is talking about how this game is different from other NTR games, where the only reason the FMC cheats is because hurr durr big dick. But, in your hurry, you think he's talking about this game and how Lacey is a size queen. You are in fact correct that what is stolen here is more emotional than physical, which is what Enlight meant in the first place.

No hurry on my part here, the game clearly states (and show) MC having a pretty sizable dick, I am not saying that Lacey is a dumb whatever size queen that you are describing.
My point was that the stealing, like you correctly quoted, is not related to sex "quality".

And again you conveniently forget that before "issac dick size" she is actually defending the MC and saying he has a big dick, not a dingus. They weren't joking around about it (well, Mia joked at the end, but not Lacey). So you either missed the whole point of that discussion or you mentioned the dick size to get your opinion validated. And the "dick" discussion was before they realized the MC is at the cliffs...the moment they realize that, they go into overdrive to get there and make sure he is ok (they way you formulated your post makes it like they already are aware that MC is at cliffs and they still talk about dicks)

If you just did something extremely harmful to your SO and you can't get in touch with him for several hours, your first thought cannot be about male ego (this is more on Mia part and completely dehumanizes MC), dick size and then going down memory lane with your bestie.
Worrying about MC is an afterthought here, it is done for shock value probably but Lacey knows of his past failed attempts, they should have been in overdrive already, don't you think?

One more time when you don't take the time to understand, because you already have an opinion formed about it. MC's jealousy stems from his total devotion to what I call "savior complex", he made his whole world about protecting Lacey. If he thinks that Lacey doesn't need him anymore, all hell breaks loose in his head and it drives him mad to the point of suicide. He's not only jealous of her sleeping around, he's afraid she will get to a point when he is not needed and then his whole life wouldn't be worthy or make any sense.

I already spoke at length about it, yes the saviour complex is there (I called it red cross complex previously), the fact that he made the center of his world is there and I touched on the effects of abandonment trauma.
This doesn't explain his jealousy towards Anna and Mia, it is a good attempt at rationalization and there is quite some truth in there, but it is not the whole picture.
You cannot argue that if Lacey was trustful MC jealousy would be more under control, I think you are looking at this in a one sided way, it is a compound of reasons.
But I agree one of the most important is the one you mention.

Well, how about that ? Why can't trauma be both a reason and a justification ? Because it's exactly what's going on. It's not a justification when you look at it from the perspective of a sane person. When you are the one that is sick, it's totally justifiable.

No, I am sorry, please never approach the topic of trauma or addiction and treat them as a justification.
It is extremely unhealty for the person and does not help them in trying to heal, since trauma usually leaves scars anyway even after healing.
Obviously we are not talking about self diagnosed stuff, it is made pretty clear that the situation is dire and real support is needed.
Take this suggestion from a professional

I can go on, but I'll stop. I don't want this to become an attack on your person. Just saying to take a look on how your bias is coloring your thinking. Sorry I kinda went on a rant targeting your post, it somewhat annoyed me because there is a lot explained by the dev, but you cherrypicked things to fit your opinion, while ignoring the other parts ( I don't even know if you did it to make a point here or this is really the way you've understood the story). I may have been a bit triggered by other comments that reduce everything to "simp" "cringe" "whore" (it annoys me to no end to see this kind of talk about a dev that clearly put a lot of effort into creating a compelling narrative) and I went off on your post, because it was more detailed and you seemed to be actually interested in the game, instead of those others that just say 1 sentence

Do not worry, the only part I disliked about your post is when you mention how I didn't take the time to understand the topics.
I am very interested in the game, simply, we have a different view on the characters and probably very different life experiences.
I had to deal with people affllicted with addiction, trauma and child abuse in my life, so maybe I am assigning real world patterns to stuff that should be read in a very light way to have a wank.

I think you read some of my posts, much of my chagrin with the game stems mostly from some writing choices that dehumanize characters (male ego, race etc) and create inconsistencies for shock value (Lacey's memory, Mia behaviour, discussing dicks etc)

I may not be right on this, but the story makes sense when you actually look at it not as a reader and a normal/sane person. Of course, in this case you would totally be correct in saying the MC is weak and idiotic, while the FMC is a manipulative hoe. It's a simple way to put them in a category like that. The truth is a lot more nuanced. They are both suffering from traumas, both self-inflicted and inflicted by others. They are both flawed, they are both making a lot of mistakes and they are both looking to fix this in their own ways (the MC can't self diagnose with his issues, while the FMC is somewhat aware on her issues, but at the same time can't think of normal solutions to them). It does seem that they get somewhat better at communication and understanding each other towards the end of the Act 1, we'll see how that goes forward.

You are right with this statement, but I don't want to repeat myself at every post I make, I already defended MC weakness and cowardice several times chalking them up to his trauma, even MC extreme kindness stems from his abandonment trauma, it is almost textbook.

This is also true for Lacey, aside from some writing choices (but Mia, MC and Anna are also guilty there), I always reconciled her behaviour with her addiction and trauma.
In fact, I mostly chastise the circle of friends for being enablers and not supporting her in a healthy way.

That said, this doesn't stop them from doing idiotic choices during the story (e.g. tennis practical joke, inviting Isaac in, caving in immediately).

Also, I've said it before in this thread (I think you did too at some point), there is a lot of "porn logic" and there is a need to suspend your belief on some parts (the most glaring one to me is when all the girls are watching the Lacey/Damian thing on the TV, but there are a lot of others points). I'm not expecting some grand story-telling, but it is refreshing to see this much on a "porn game".

Yes, you are right, I commented about it, but the problem here is that it is difficult to have a story written with some effort and then find these blatant porn logic insertions (another glaring one is Bella coming in and deciding to give a BJ to MC in under 5 mins), inconsistencies all over and open threads that are never closed, the author needs to know how to close arcs and events.

 

[Joratox]

You made some valid points, especially about trauma, which I admit to not have that much experience with. I probably didn't express myself properly, about the justification, was mostly hinting at the fact that in the mind of Lacey at the point, it made sense to justify some of her actions. Of course it is not justifiable in the sense that it's okay to act like that, and she should realize it sooner or later (if/when she gets on a path of healing).
I do not agree with the fact that those particular situations with male ego/race were dehumanizing the MC. At least on how I understood it, Mia's comment about male ego being fragile was made trying to tell Lacey how bad Damien's words could hurt the MC. Sure it is a bit generalized, but male ego is very much a thing ( we don't like to admit it ), as much as female ego is a thing, just different. Speaking from personal experience, when I was a teenager I had some warped idea that if you don't have a dick of atleast 25 cm, then you have a small dick and should be ashamed (I won't get more info on this, but I have a very higher that the average one and it took several gfs to actually understand that I in fact had nothing to be ashamed of). Mia had no idea that the MC has a big dick and was trying to emphasize to Lacey that small dick comments will hurt the male ego a lot.
On the race point (again this is how I perceived it), the MC's sense of worth translates to his work as well, so he couldn't see another reason on why he was picked over Jeannette. In his mind, he's not good enough for the position, so why would they pick him ? oh because he's white. It is another point that shows how his mind gets to the wrong thinking paths when confronted with a positive thing happening to him.
Thanks for the discussion though, it helps seeing how other people see things.

 

[Enlight432]

This game doesn't seem to be about the sort of stealing you mean here, what is stolen is genuine trust and intimacy that MC and FMC will not be able to enjoy for the forseeable future, unless we get some sort of forced deus ex machina.

It seems there has been a misunderstanding
I didn't say this game is about the cliché of "being stolen because of a bigger dick." Another friend and I were talking about some clichés in other games. Look at the comment I replied to



Regarding your other texts:

As I said before, there will always and always be different interpretations of this game, and this will continue until the end of the game
Because this is not a simple vanilla game where the only topic of discussion is who is more beautiful, who is not, and other simple topics
This game focuses on topics that everyone in society has a specific opinion on, topics that some people strongly reject without thinking because they deeply hurt their feelings
A few comments above, someone said what you would do if you found out your girlfriend had a group sex with 10 people before you? Could you not be upset? The questioner was in doubt, the man being interviewed left his girlfriend right there, and the person who replied to this person's comment said they wouldn't be upset at all --- 3 different views in just 3 comments!

I prefer not to discuss these topics because they have no results, as they are not simple topics
Forever you may consider MC stupid, and forever I not consider MC stupid, and no matter how much we talk with objective and subjective reasons, neither of us will accept the other's words, because accepting each other's words requires changing some sensitive beliefs. If I want to point to just one of them, it is the amount of forgiveness and the power of forgiveness and the reason for forgiveness and the correctness or incorrectness of forgiveness and the right and wrong perspective on forgiveness. Some people will never forgive Mia, others have a different view and forgive her. Now, this discussion between these two people is useless

Anyway, I'm glad that some people liked my post and we look at the story from the same viewpoint, a viewpoint that I see as right and real, and another sees as wrong
Good luck

 

[PonderingPotatoPal]

If this MC is a dumbass, then we're all dumbasses.
Who the hell has been able to build a harem as big as his?
Who the hell has been able to pick up this many chicks at the same time?
And he's reached a high position in the company at a young age, and all that.
And so on
Or that plan that got that blond guy fired from the company was genius.

 

[DeviantFun]

You made some valid points, especially about trauma, which I admit to not have that much experience with. I probably didn't express myself properly, about the justification, was mostly hinting at the fact that in the mind of Lacey at the point, it made sense to justify some of her actions. Of course it is not justifiable in the sense that it's okay to act like that, and she should realize it sooner or later (if/when she gets on a path of healing).

Ok I see what you are getting it, if you look at it from Lacey perspective I don't even think she justifies it for herself, she does not even think about the long term or has a very warped version of it.
The story and the characters often justify Lacey with "braindamage", which is the behaviour I am describing.

I do not agree with the fact that those particular situations with male ego/race were dehumanizing the MC. At least on how I understood it, Mia's comment about male ego being fragile was made trying to tell Lacey how bad Damien's words could hurt the MC. Sure it is a bit generalized, but male ego is very much a thing ( we don't like to admit it ), as much as female ego is a thing, just different. Speaking from personal experience, when I was a teenager I had some warped idea that if you don't have a dick of atleast 25 cm, then you have a small dick and should be ashamed (I won't get more info on this, but I have a very higher that the average one and it took several gfs to actually understand that I in fact had nothing to be ashamed of). Mia had no idea that the MC has a big dick and was trying to emphasize to Lacey that small dick comments will hurt the male ego a lot.

This is where I want to stop you a moment, it is just Ego, everyone has it and not being able to satisfy some society or arbitrary standards can hurt it, being told that you are not enough over something you have no control over can hurt you period.
The problem here is the wording, which doesn't happen only in that occasion but also earlier with Anna while discussing Mia's messages.
From Anna's perspective the person you love got subjected to a 3 month torture, you know his fragility and weakpoints, that are all being put under heavy attack. What is her reaction? "I am a bit angry with you Mia / Male ego" instead how talking about MC character scars directly.

You see, it is a weak categorization for the sake of it, when talking about people you care about and not a statistic, your first thought process is not (or shouldn't be) "he/she is from category X" but "he/she is hurting".
I hope I am able to get my point across.

On the race point (again this is how I perceived it), the MC's sense of worth translates to his work as well, so he couldn't see another reason on why he was picked over Jeannette. In his mind, he's not good enough for the position, so why would they pick him ? oh because he's white. It is another point that shows how his mind gets to the wrong thinking paths when confronted with a positive thing happening to him.
Thanks for the discussion though, it helps seeing how other people see things.

This is exactly how I see it as well, we are shown time and time again that MC is not able to see his inherent value as a person and as a professional (in today's world Jeanette would have taken MC spot in a heartbeat btw).
Again here, I understand your train of thought, but once again, instead of MCC thinking about himself and Jeanette as persons, he thinks about categories, MC do not talk much about how Jeanette is a great professional, she is reduced into a category (seriously I hope there are not many people that think that way).
It is the same for himself, MC doesn't talk about his own shortcomings or loyalty, he talks about race.
The message the author is trying to convey is clear, it is just hamfisted in my opinion.

 

[psychedevil]

i dont care what she did before. i mean i had my share of girls too before, so why should i care? everyone that complains about something like that has a trust-/egoproblem.

A trust problem? Sure. However, some would argue that having a trust problem may be justified in relation to a woman who admits to sleeping with 10 men during one night. If she was that loose in who she gives it up to, then maybe she shouldn't be trusted.

In the case of the YouTube interview, it also seems that the boyfriend was previously unaware of this behavior, yet she revealed it publicly on the spot in front of him. So he possibly could have had an issue with honesty or not knowing who she really was.

What I will say is that the past does matter. Anyone can change, but our actions (including past ones) contribute to who we are. As for Lacey in the game, she admits to sleeping with hundreds of men and gets so out of it on ketamine that she doesn't remember what she says or does with other men, some of which is quite hurtful due to her being video recorded and watched. I think that's worth being concerned about and considering whether it will continue and if it's something that's desired in a partner.

 

[DeviantFun]

A trust problem? Sure. However, some would argue that having a trust problem may be justified in relation to a woman who admits to sleeping with 10 men during one night. If she was that loose in who she gives it up to, then maybe she shouldn't be trusted.

In the case of the YouTube interview, it also seems that the boyfriend was previously unaware of this behavior, yet she revealed it publicly on the spot in front of him. So he possibly could have had an issue with honesty or not knowing who she really was.

What I will say is that the past does matter. Anyone can change, but our actions (including past ones) contribute to who we are. As for Lacey in the game, she admits to sleeping with hundreds of men and gets so out of it on ketamine that she doesn't remember what she says or does with other men, some of which is quite hurtful due to her being video recorded and watched. I think that's worth being concerned about and considering whether it will continue and if it's something that's desired in a partner.

You know, I think what most people are forgetting here and misdirecting about "jealousy of her past" (in reality is more related to choosing that life over MC for 1460 days but that is often missed), is that her past keeps on coming and intrude in their lives.

This is not a situation of let bygones be bygones, Lacey's past is actively working against their marriage, from minor stuff like the lorenzo incident, to VERY major stuff like having fucked minors (which everyone seems to be fine here to my absolute surprise) and Isaac.

 

[Joratox]

VERY major stuff like having fucked minors (which everyone seems to be fine here to my absolute surprise)

I was a bit tired when playing that part of the game, so I might not remember it 100% accurately, but from what I understand,

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. If that is the context, I wouldn't hold anything against her, she had no real way of knowing and put any kind of stop to it. That is probably why everyone is glossing over that part.

 

[DeviantFun]

I was a bit tired when playing that part of the game, so I might not remember it 100% accurately, but from what I understand,

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. If that is the context, I wouldn't hold anything against her, she had no real way of knowing and put any kind of stop to it. That is probably why everyone is glossing over that part.

This is probably a fundamental difference of values between us.
You remember correctly, the situation is as you described, when thinking about stuff like this, always think about it as the gender would be reversed.

That said, being high or intoxicated is not an excuse or a justification to commit crimes.
She isn't the only guilty party there, but she is guilty nonetheless.

Can we find mitigating circumstances? Sure, we could even find forgiveness in our hearts, but that doesnt change the facts.

 

[BigTTiger]

This is probably a fundamental difference of values between us.
You remember correctly, the situation is as you described, when thinking about stuff like this, always think about it as the gender would be reversed.

That said, being high or intoxicated is not an excuse or a justification to commit crimes.
She isn't the only guilty party there, but she is guilty nonetheless.

Can we find mitigating circumstances? Sure, we could even find forgiveness in our hearts, but that doesnt change the facts.

Well like the saying goes forgive but don't forget

 

[kinghardbest2014]

NICE

 

[Adhdclassic]

how did i miss this 3 nasal holes

 

[Vicissitudo]

I've finished the game and afterwards I decided to browse the image folder...

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[Elduriel]

I've finished the game and afterwards I decided to browse the image folder...

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dunno what pics you are referring to, but she had a bukkake kinda scene in my pt. Also the 3/4 some (can't exactly remember)

 

[Adhdclassic]

I've finished the game and afterwards I decided to browse the image folder...

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I believe that was one of the last pics Mia showed before showing Isaac pics

 

[Vicissitudo]

dunno what pics you are referring to, but she had a bukkake kinda scene in my pt. Also the 3/4 some (can't exactly remember)

I believe that was one of the last pics Mia showed before showing Isaac pics

I know the one you are referring to, but there are others...

I mean these...

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[Elduriel]

I know the one you are referring to, but there are others...

I mean these...

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haha these are fucking awesome but yeah they aren't in the game iirc

 

[Adhdclassic]

I know the one you are referring to, but there are others...

I mean these...

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Damn that's going to be a serious cleaning bill.

 

[cormac69]

I'm really enjoying this game so far but it is in desperate need of one thing! A gallery option so that we can go back and scroll through her sex scenes.