VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[CrysusPariah2]

Mia doesn't know though. Quite clearly stated Lacey didn't tell her anything of any value.

True, but i don’t see how that’s relevant

At least in the sense, whether Lacey could or could not be considered a virgin before Stephen, depending on whether Mia about the abuse

 

[Maviarab]

True, but i don’t see how that’s relevant

Mia referring to Stephen with a 'ph' as Lacey's first. Mia wouldn't know any better either way.

 

[Saphfire]

abortion huh? Well we do know that there is one thing lurking in her past, which the mc is not ready for....

 

[Maviarab]

abortion huh? Well we do know that there is one thing lurking in her past, which the mc is not ready for....

We all do...and we're as clueless (even after 180+ pages) as the MC is...

And we as the players know...whatever it is, it's BIG! (if the MC finding out even scares the succubus....)

 

[CrysusPariah2]

We all do...and we're as clueless (even after 180+ pages) as the MC is...

And we as the players know...whatever it is, it's BIG! (if the MC finding out even scares the succubus....)

With our luck, it will just be completely forgotten and never explored

 

[DeviantFun]

I think it really comes down to this.
This is the author's story and he will get as complex as he wants to get.
Yes, there will be secrets and reveals in the story.
However, how complex do we think this is going to get? I personally am trying to put way more complexity into FV/Barty to make things make sense that were probably just a writing issue.

This is so very true, but players (or at least this player), expect complex problems to not have simple solutions.

The reason I was pretty bummed out by the FV part is quite simple: we have a lot of emotional baggage to sift through, 90% of that stuff that happens in act 1 is not properly addressed (e.g. the day after Evan dialogue is addressed in act 2 and it is the only one I think.).

We keep on seeing stuff added and not addressed:

Isaac comes and tries to "steal" Lacey? Not even mentioned once, like it never happened.
Bastion situation where Lacey kissed him (the kiss was the only thing she kept for MC) and was super duper happy? forgotten like it never happened (at least make a tie in with the jealousy fetish Lacey has instead of saying that high and drunk Lacey can cum buckets, which is biologically so wrong that I can't even start explaining).

So there are complex themes, and I respect the author wanting to dive to the depth he wishes, but we need to see at least some of them addressed instead of thrown away because they "run their course" and the shock value has been achieved.

All of this with the caveat that the author can write in what every reality he wants without any description of how it was able to happen, but do you think he would.

Definitely, and I subscribe that therapy is rather private, but for MC and Lacey?

I can't see why she would not be more forthcoming, in my opinion it is just because the author wants to keep some secret or doesn't want to elaborate, but adding a line or two "me and Lacey spoke about her therapy and what she did" could do wonders.

Now, I want to discuss something that has not come up, but is something I have personal experience with and could be a reason she would stop going to therapy. That being sexual addiction.
Many years ago I dated a girl who was a recovering sexual addict. She had worked in happy ending massage parlors. She had a failed marriage that ended because no matter what she did she could not stop cheating. We talked and got together for the better part of a year and she ended it because she said if she were to let it go further should would not be able to keep from hurting me.
Ok enough of that part. However, when we met and she opened up with her life she was just starting her recovery and going to therapy. The most important part of her therapy was abstinence. She could not have any sexual contact until she got to a certain point in her recovery that she could start having a healthy sexual relationship.
It would be hard to believe that any therapist would not hear her story and talk to her about a sex addiction. How would she respond to being told she had to be completely abstinent at a time when her husband is coming out of an abstinent time of his life and starting to learn the joys of intimancy?

So, Lacey is not a sexual addict and never was, her reasons to have sex were several: getting over her trauma, pleasing Mia, make herself feel worthless and IMO in pure DF speculation mode she enjoyed the attention (see: the need to flirt often even immediately after cheating on MC).

We know she wasn't because she gave it up easily (senior year was full abstinence) and is not interested in sex without MC being a part of it.
Sure we can say that Lacey is lying to everyone including herself, but she does not miss the sex or at least that kind of sex, she still likes sex with MC in any form (even with him as a spectator ) but that is the extent of it.
This is obviously based on the info we have right now.

A deeper look might make us think that she actually uses sex with MC as a manipulation tool (see after he accept the work trip for example).

BUT we don't know about her "other side", which I often said I hope it is not sexually related, as it would be a big letdown.
My point against this theory is that she discovered this side while she was in college away from MC, and MC was the only one helping her keeping it at bay.
Obviously Mia, our wonderful friend, has probably no clue.

Considering Mia's past and that she still considers herself a virgin, I don't think there is any reason why even if Lacey's abuse went to the worst steps and Mia knew about it she wouldn't still consider Stephen as Lacey's first.

I subscribe to this way of thinking.

If a rape victim tells me they are a virgin, they are a virgin, period.

With our luck, it will just be completely forgotten and never explored

Stop hurting me.

 

[Maviarab]

Definitely, and I subscribe that therapy is rather private, but for MC and Lacey?

I can't see why she would not be more forthcoming, in my opinion it is just because the author wants to keep some secret or doesn't want to eaborate, but adding a line or two "me and Lacey spoke about her therapy and what she did" could do wonders.

Exactly. Only ever her pov and rarely discussed...just more lighter fuel onto the upcoming Uk bonfire night

So, Lacey is not a sexual addict and never was

Well..if she is an awakened succu...you know...I'll just be over here -------------->

BUT we don't know about her "other side", which I often said I hope it is not sexually related, as it would be a big letdown.
My point against this theory is that she discovered this side while she was in college away from MC, and MC was the only one helping her keeping it at bay.

We know the other side is before college. She states this....so if it is sexual in nature....it's a little disturbing. How did the MC keep it at bay if she never even knew about it? Whatever it is, stems from before she turned 18. I find the...I never even knew until the MC was not there flimsy at best in all honesty.

 

[DeviantFun]

Exactly. Only ever her pov and rarely discussed...just more lighter fuel onto the upcoming Uk bonfire night

Eh I think it is an "artistic choice", also because it should be important to the story, if it is not is fine to keep it as "I went to therapy".

But there are surely topics and themes that could be explored using that as a starting point.

Well..if she is an awakened succu...you know...I'll just be over here -------------->

I am watching you.

We know the other side is before college. She states this....so if it is sexual in nature....it's a little disturbing. How did the MC keep it at bay if she never even knew about it? Whatever it is, stems from before she turned 18. I find the...I never even knew until the MC was not there flimsy at best in all honesty.

Yes, this is me being unclear and having a bit of a hit and miss with the english language.

What I mean is this:

L "There's this other side to me."
L "Maybe Mia gets it? But maybe not."
L "I'm not happy or proud of it."
L "And it's not... healthy."
L "I've got so much trauma, so much pain."
L "And the only thing that kept it in check was [MCFirst]."
L "When I left him to go to school..."
A "Abandoned." <- this line has been kept for my own personal pleasure

I know that it was sort of always there, but it never surfaced, to the point that MC never noticed for 13 years (weird) so it came out only in college.
So she knew it was there but it was kept in check, whatever that will mean to the story.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Eh I think it is an "artistic choice", also because it should be important to the story, if it is not is fine to keep it as "I went to therapy".

But there are surely topics and themes that could be explored using that as a starting point.



I am watching you.



Yes, this is me being unclear and having a bit of a hit and miss with the english language.

What I mean is this:

L "There's this other side to me."
L "Maybe Mia gets it? But maybe not."
L "I'm not happy or proud of it."
L "And it's not... healthy."
L "I've got so much trauma, so much pain."
L "And the only thing that kept it in check was [MCFirst]."
L "When I left him to go to school..."
A "Abandoned." <- this line has been kept for my own personal pleasure

I know that it was sort of always there, but it never surfaced, to the point that MC never noticed for 13 years (weird) so it came out only in college.
So she knew it was there but it was kept in check, whatever that will mean to the story.

Maybe he did indirectly notice it, and it was the 243 rules that kept it at bay

 

[Maviarab]

Maybe he did indirectly notice it, and it was the 243 rules that kept it at bay

Most of those rules were actually for his benefit rather than hers. Do this...Lacey reacts BADLY...new rule...don't do that when Lacey is....

Most of those rules were peacekeepers/placaters rather than 'protecting' her....

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Most of those rules were actually for his benefit rather than hers. Do this...Lacey reacts BADLY...new rule...don't do that when Lacey is....

Most of those rules were peacekeepers/placaters rather than 'protecting' her....

Not most of them, taking away the pencils or feeding her where completely to protect her, it had some rules than benefited the MC contact with her, but it was never the intended result, just the means to an end (lacey being protected)

 

[DeviantFun]

Maybe he did indirectly notice it, and it was the 243 rules that kept it at bay

Agreed, could perfectly be that her other side is complletely related to self harm/hate/desctruction.

Most of those rules were actually for his benefit rather than hers. Do this...Lacey reacts BADLY...new rule...don't do that when Lacey is....

Most of those rules were peacekeepers/placaters rather than 'protecting' her....

Come on Mav, I just finished reading an article on the new craze about making heroes - villains and villains - heroes.

The kid was preventing Lacey from feeling bad and performing self harm, the girl was a mess.
None of the rules or his efforts to protect her actually benefitted him in any way possible.

He was packing more food for her because she would be starved, he spent his time helping her get perfect math exerices or she woud be beaten.

The guy was reacting (and sometimes acting, like for the pencils) to some serious stuff at the best of his ability, painting him as a self serving bad guy doesn't fit.

Hell, he even helps Isaac without a question.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Most of those rules were actually for his benefit rather than hers. Do this...Lacey reacts BADLY...new rule...don't do that when Lacey is....

Most of those rules were peacekeepers/placaters rather than 'protecting' her....

Just saying that just maybe, they were also placating this “other side”

I’m paraphrasing but lacey was prone to outburst, mood swings and shutting down as a child, which prompted the rules

and maybe that suppressed it before Lacey even has the words or understanding to explain what it was

EDIT: don’t forget, Lacey was never aware of the rules, of a complex system to keep her life in balance and only noticed that she was feeling “better”

 

[Maviarab]

The guy was reacting (and sometimes acting, like for the pencils) to some serious stuff at the best of his ability, painting him as a self serving bad guy doesn't fit.

I never said he was a bad guy...or that they were purposefully for him but it's still the end result. We all do it, most days.

Example...say your wife, anyone...says something...and you make witty retort back...and they explode. What are your internal thoughts? Usually along the lines of shit...won't say that again....

See what I mean now? Yes, many of the rules directly benefit and protect Lacey, I never said they didn't, (please don't put words into my mouth)....what I said was (and is evidenced in the script) that many of them came about to avoid conflict between them...directed at him.

Just saying that just maybe, they were also placating this “other side”

I’m paraphrasing but lacey was prone to outburst, mood swings and shutting down as a child, which prompted the rules

and maybe that suppressed it before Lacey even has the words or understanding to explain what it was

They may have placated this other side correct...but you yourself say, Lacey was unstable, prone to outbursts (usually because the MC said or did something)...a lot of the rules nullified that because if he did/said something 'wrong'...she might not speak to him for days (in the script). So yes, many of the rules were to deflect her temper, ie...serve him more than her (indirectly meaning he can then look after her better).

That make better sense now?

 

[DeviantFun]

I never said he was a bad guy...or that they were purposefully for him but it's still the end result. We all do it, most days.

Example...say your wife, anyone...says something...and you make witty retort back...and they explode. What are your internal thoughts? Usually along the lines of shit...won't say that again....

See what I mean now? Yes, many of the rules directly benefit and protect Lacey, I never said they didn't, (please don't put words into my mouth)....what I said was (and is evidenced in the script) that many of them came about to avoid conflict between them...directed at him.

Some of the rules could be interpreted that way but remember this too:

MC "Um, it's easy to make friends because you don't need the rules anymore."

And honestly, I have a hard time to see them as "I am doing this so I do not get retaliation", the core of each rule is related to how Lacey feels, regardless of how MC feels about it.

Example:
MC "No matter how hard she cries... we don't hug."
MC "That one's really important."

Or

MC "If there's a bruise on her face... we don't talk about food."
MC "If there's one on her arm... we don't talk about clothing."
MC "If she winces when she sits down... we don't talk."

The core is never "I need to avoid this because of conflict" but "I have to do this else she suffers and spirals".

They may have placated this other side correct...but you yourself say, Lacey was unstable, prone to outbursts (usually because the MC said or did something)...a lot of the rules nullified that because if he did/said something 'wrong'...she might not speak to him for days (in the script). So yes, many of the rules were to deflect her temper, ie...serve him more than her (indirectly meaning he can then look after her better).

That make better sense now?

It is a way of reading it for sure.

And we could also say that her silent treatment was her narcisisstic punishment for him.

Actually we should definitely say that.

 

[Maviarab]

MC "No matter how hard she cries... we don't hug."
MC "That one's really important."

But he learnt first hand what happens when he tried to comfort her.

The core is never "I need to avoid this because of conflict" but "I have to do this else she suffers and spirals".

So sorry...avoiding conflict is just as important...but the conflict also makes her worse. Like you mentioned earlier about the walking on eggshells. It's as much self-preservation as it is for Lacey herself.

As you say, maybe it is just a way of reading/interpeting it.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Yes, this is me being unclear and having a bit of a hit and miss with the english language.

What I mean is this:

L "There's this other side to me."
L "Maybe Mia gets it? But maybe not."
L "I'm not happy or proud of it."
L "And it's not... healthy."
L "I've got so much trauma, so much pain."
L "And the only thing that kept it in check was [MCFirst]."
L "When I left him to go to school..."
A "Abandoned." <- this line has been kept for my own personal pleasure

I know that it was sort of always there, but it never surfaced, to the point that MC never noticed for 13 years (weird) so it came out only in college.
So she knew it was there but it was kept in check, whatever that will mean to the story.

I haven't given much thought to this part of the story and I think I just read by it not realizing the significance when I played.

There is also:
LN "He already has to share me."
LN "He has to share me with my past, my addiction, my brain damage."
LN "And without knowing it, he has to share me with my other side."
LN "But he's not ready for that."
LN "He just isn't."
LN "A couple times I almost broke down and told him."
LN "But I can't risk him finding out before he's ready."
LN "Or maybe he'll never be ready. Then what?"
LN "Somehow make sure he never finds out?"

Based on her wording, it doesn't sound like it's anything physical with her. It's a demon (no not literally) from her past that she is afraid to share.

It makes sense that it could be pregnancy/abortion or her father's abuse. Or, maybe we can make a wild ass accusation that has absolutely no bases in the game... what if she was abused by the MC's father or someone from his past that he trusted?

 

[Maviarab]

I think I just read by it not realizing the significance when I played.

Why we all say....a second 'playing' is a must in this VN. When you can go through it without constantly wondering what the hell is going to happen next...you pick up a lot more of the nuance in the writing, what is said and also unsaid.

It's a demon (no not literally)

 

[Pugthulhu]

On a side note, does anyone know if there is a planned end at this point? Has Prof said anything about a conclusion?

 

[DeviantFun]

I haven't given much thought to this part of the story and I think I just read by it not realizing the significance when I played.

There is also:
LN "He already has to share me."
LN "He has to share me with my past, my addiction, my brain damage."
LN "And without knowing it, he has to share me with my other side."
LN "But he's not ready for that."
LN "He just isn't."
LN "A couple times I almost broke down and told him."
LN "But I can't risk him finding out before he's ready."
LN "Or maybe he'll never be ready. Then what?"
LN "Somehow make sure he never finds out?"

Based on her wording, it doesn't sound like it's anything physical with her. It's a demon (no not literally) from her past that she is afraid to share.

It makes sense that it could be pregnancy/abortion or her father's abuse. Or, maybe we can make a wild ass accusation that has absolutely no bases in the game... what if she was abused by the MC's father or someone from his past that he trusted?

Hm I am not sure that it would make sense about the pregnancy or abortion, how could being with MC "keep that at bay" or resurface when she was without him?
It is too big for him to keep at bay with some food and care.

Crysus might be on to something here, maybe MC behaviour (rules) and being "her other half" helped her not spiral and be a bad person?

I don't really know what to make of it.

On a side note, does anyone know if there is a planned end at this point? Has Prof said anything about a conclusion?

It wasn't supposed to gain traction, a sort of follow up was supposed to happen, but not as this.

If you look at the act 1 ending, it does sort of feel like an ending.

I sort of remember there was a post about having several acts, probably on patreon.

CrysusPariah2 pays more attention than me there, so he might know.