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anongamer1983

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Writers fail sometimes, he probably wanted to create this misunderstood, good natured and somewhat naive person that tries to get the best from people and as a result he wrote an abusive monster.
I actually don't think that that was the writer's intention. I think that part of Lacey's recovery is learning to let go of toxic relationships that keep her in the past. I do think that Mia will take steps to get better and get back in the picture in the very next Act after the breaking point hits, but I think Mia is purposefully written as toxic and one of the anchors that holds Lacey at the bottom of the ocean. Until the line is cut, Lacey will never be able to swim to the surface.

Obviously I could be totally wrong here, but I just think that MC and Lacey aren't mentally equipped to recognize toxicity yet and what is hurting their relationship.
 
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Saphfire

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I enjoy reading all the different opinions in the thread, the deep thinking of somer people, the interpreting, the what if´s
Some people are missing logic and consistence in every sentence the prof wrote. Well you have to keep in mind that L&J
was initially just a short break before continuing OTMT. It took him just 4 weeks! to create the whole art, scripting, writing etc for act 1.
Here is what he wrote on patreon, maybe this makes people less harsh on the writing abilities:

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Fmedic

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I often reduced your thought with: women in L&J do not get consequences, in act 1 before we know what is happening in act2 (which is still a tacked on storyline imo) barty is chastised heavily banned from the home etc.
And what Barty did was way less harmful compared to what Veronica, Christine or the pimp did.

I hold the same.principles as you, but I have seen firsthand how a broken, abused and drug filled individual will be way more susceptible to manipulation.

People in hospitals with their loves ones on their deathbed that are offered miracle cures or prayers or whatever always as a "modest price".
Desperation and pain make you vulnerable to evil people like the pimp.




Yes my brother, we need to burn this heresy to the ground.
Just as a curiosity, what were the parts that bothered you?
All of it where the pimp interjects about that time, the toothbrush, it all discussed me.

Peeps, I am a seasoned veteran Fire fighter paramedic and I have seen in RL some truly discussing things that no human should see. I have been able to put RL shit like that behind me. This story is really bothering me. Don't want to be a debbie downer, but MC really needs to get away from this or going with my earlier story suggestion making everything better.
 

Maviarab

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I enjoy reading all the different opinions in the thread, the deep thinking of somer people, the interpreting, the what if´s
Some people are missing logic and consistence in every sentence the prof wrote. Well you have to keep in mind that L&J
was initially just a short break before continuing OTMT. It took him just 4 weeks! to create the whole art, scripting, writing etc for act 1.
Here is what he wrote on patreon, maybe this makes people less harsh on the writing abilities:

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Sorry, but I stopped reading at:

Let's be honest, when most human beings think about an NTR game all we think of is yelling at the MC to leave that bitch and move on with his/her life. The MC is always a weak moron, stupid or worse.

And then:

What if that wasn't the case?

Well, I guess he completely and utterly failed in that directive, and he has utterly failed as a writer because that's exactly what we are all shouting, because the MC is exasctly the opposite of what he wanted, especially given this wasn't even supposed to be as long as it currently is, never mind actually will end up being.

Not even going to get into his: Because OTMT is my big focus.

Sorry Saphire, given my thoughts and opinions, you really should not have posted that rofl.
 
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DeviantFun

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Dec 20, 2018
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I actually don't think that that was the writer's intention. I think that part of Lacey's recovery is learning to let go of toxic relationships that keep her in the past. I do think that Mia will take steps to get better and get back in the picture in the very next Act after the breaking point hits, but I think Mia is purposefully written as toxic and one of the anchors that holds Lacey at the bottom of the ocean. Until the line is cut, Lacey will never be able to swim to the surface.

Obviously I could be totally wrong here, but I just think that MC and Lacey aren't mentally equipped to recognize toxicity yet and what is hurting their relationship.
What you are missing here is how EVERYONE loves the pimp and how the relationships are developed.
Anna calls Lacey her sister ater a year of knowing her, without even knowing her past for example.

The pimp is loved so much by Anna that even when her actions destroy mentally the man she loves she cannot even keep away from her for one week before missing her soooo much that she decides to call her begging to be friends again.

MC forgives her for everything, up to the last moment.
The super protective MC that was fine destroying his opponents life when threatened is completely fine when his wife is put in danger with drugs, he doesn't even comment on the pimp being happy that Lacey got SA.
Oh yeah don't worry I am a bit angry with you but if you bark two times we will be friends again.

So it is not only Lacey, everyone loves the pimp and want to keep her around, she gets scolded VERY mildly by Anna two times, one when Anna reads the messages and the second during the king weekend.
I already outlined the fallout of the messages , which is a nothingburger, but then after witnessing that the pimp is trying her best to give MC another PTSD episode like the week before, what happens? nothing.

There are talks about everyone getting separated (obviously a hint for act 3) and MC + Lacey bringing everybody back, hours after the pimp brought the drugs.

The pimp is not purposefully written as toxic, but in a world where no consequences exist for women (Lacey included), the author created a disloyal, abusive and emotionally stunted character that can get away with everything.
And even then he keeps digging! Poor pimp did what she did to Lacey because if she could manage that maybe she would het over her own hangup as well.
This is one of the worst things one can ever read: I used and abused a human being, without ever asking how she felt or what was going through her mind, to fulfill my own agenda.

It is insane, it was obviously a phrase thrown out to garner sympahy and give an explanation of the pimp behaviour and again it failed miserably and actually made her look even worse.
You can see the shallowness of the character every time Lacey's past is brought up, she never understood her, she never cared to, she spews wrong information to MC without thinking a second time about the consequences (exposing Lacey GREAT memory tbh, but that is another topic).

Look:
MC "And she told you how good it was feeling right?"
M "Yeah, all the time."
M "She'd tell me what things she liked and what she didn't."

and

L "Why would you tell him that?"
L "How could you do that to me?"
M "Tell me where the lie is, Lacey."
M "Tell me I'm wrong."
L "What kind of monster did you think I was?"
L "How could you possibly believe that?"
M "I was there dammit!"
M "I watched what you became."
M "You fucking loved it!"
M "I have pictures of you."

Are just small examples of the total fuckup of a character the pimp is, she just went ahead with her ingenious plan without caring for Lacey wellbeing.
She tried to detach her from MC when she needed him the most, because she was jealous Lacey wasn't giving HER all the attention.
She didn't even try to go through her own "fitness pllan" together with Lacey, which shows how abusive the whole thing is, since she spent weeks and weeks manipulating and forcing her to go through with what she wanted.
And to add the cherry on the shit cake (cit.) , she cares so much about her best friend, while admitting to have ruined her life, that she now is trying to STEAL her husband.
Not share, steal, she wants Lacey to be looking in from the outside.

She has literally no redeeming qualities aside from "oh but she cares about Lacey and MC so much", which is obviously then completely contraddicted by her actions.

I will stop here, but I have a lot more to say about it, I will reiterate, if the author doesn't start showing some consequences of people's actions even if they have a vagina and the pimp doesn't go through a hellish redemption arc, L&J will be stained in my book.
And tbh even if she goes though this redemption arc, I don't know how can you fix two arcs + college past of horrible and monstruous behaviour.

FAILED CHARACTER

All of it where the pimp interjects about that time, the toothbrush, it all discussed me.

Peeps, I am a seasoned veteran Fire fighter paramedic and I have seen in RL some truly discussing things that no human should see. I have been able to put RL shit like that behind me. This story is really bothering me. Don't want to be a debbie downer, but MC really needs to get away from this or going with my earlier story suggestion making everything better.
He does, all the avoidance thing and repression (cheered on by his friends) is going to bite back soon, calling himself an angry little bitch in self loathing while he needs to express his anger towards the injustice he has been forced to live is going to destroy him.

Funnily enough the toothbrush was a downer for me too, I found it pretty heavy in general.
No sex involved, just pure intimacy, tainted forever.

If you add the sex things, all the silly things like eating some dessert from her tits is now off llimits, radioactive waste.

But this is Lacey's struggle more than MC, she needs to come clean about her past and then admit how she doesn't have anything to offer him anymore that could repay those 4 years waiting.

And all of this is because: "she just wanted to".
It is pretty heavy to have to deal with the consequences of your actions when your reasons to do things is that weak.

Obviously it will be very hard for Mc too, having to accept that his relationship will never be whole or good or even average.
He lost all that during those four years.
 

Dragonlight

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Jul 17, 2019
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I am willing to listen to you if you have a different opinion or you see things in a different way.
Since it is you I promise I won't pounce :p .

The motivations behind Pimp behaviour are these:

MC_nvl "She thinks that people aren't genuine enough"
MC_nvl "And that people aren't their true selves until everything gets turned upside down"
MC_nvl "She does it because she thinks people can't be happy if they aren't who they were meant to be"

So she has her idea of what is genuine, and if I were Lacey I would be VERY diappointed, considering that she thinks the genuine version of Lacey is a gutter whore with no self respect (the pimp refer it as glorious) and she just pushes and manipulates people in that direction.

No matter who they are, no matter what they think, no matter the emotional and mental damage that she can cause.

Writers fail sometimes, he probably wanted to create this misunderstood, good natured and somewhat naive person that tries to get the best from people and as a result he wrote an abusive monster.
He needs to go back and retcon some stuff / give her a VERY powerful redemption arc, where she recognizes her mistakes, ATONES, separates from the group understanding the damage she has done and then maybe be accepted again.
Hmm. I`ve got nothing. :) Nothing coherent at least. Mia is bothering me so much that I find myself procrastinating during the day, thinking about how to fix her. I`m going to, selfishly, use You and anyone who wants to partake to bounce some ideas. Please be gentle, senpai.

One Idea is that she cannot reconcile what she saw Lacey do and what Lacey says now and experiencing cognitive dissonance.
She confronts Lacey about it. Its a kitchen scene with bag of drugs.

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So is Lacey bullshiting Mia or not ? At this point I am confused, dont know what to believe. They DID have more fun than we`ve been led to believe.

Second.
When Lacey was telling about Evan shower incident the only one who took it seriously was Anna. Lacey and Mia were kinda in sync. Maybe Lacey was in shock and denial idk, but they were like its another Tuesday.

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Their friendship is weird and rotten. Are we sure that Mia is not under Lacey`s influence like MC ? Lacey is a better manipulator after all.

And third weak ass stupid mega far fetched theory that spawn from the second.

To make sense about the last hurrah. What if that was Lacey idea, that she planted ? We know now that Mia can procure drugs like a magician. So whether she wanted attempt suicide or have fun one last time she needed a lot of drugs, and needed Mia to get them for her ?

So to bring my rabid thoughts together ?
They are both depraved. They are bad influence on each other. Lacey got Mia wrapped around her finger. Lacey never reprimand her when she bring up the past in a casual way. Why ? Why are they friends ?

ok, guys tear me a new one.
 

AL.d

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I'm not so sure on the use her angle myself. Remember what Lacey's biggest fear is? Mia just told her that's what she was/wanted to do....right to her face. I'm going to steal your husband and take this shit so you either no longer give a fuck or die.
Mia threatening Lacey with stealing MC, is like me threatening Jon Jones with a beating :LOL:

Lacey doesn't give a shit because she knows Mia can't steal anything, it's all empty threats. Same with Anna when she said the same. Not only because she is very aware of her hold on him, but also because she knows her (inexplicable) hold on them. Game shows that, with how much more guarded she is with new arrivals like Kelly. Even Mia knows that, that's why she passed the torch to Kelly.

I posted that dialogue with her saying she wants to brainwash MC a couple pages back. Their (lack of) reaction was disturbing. Mia just whined a bit but ultimately nothing. Anna even said she will support. The whole scene was like seeing a cult leader addressing members.

Also think of it this way too. MC was a virgin recluse. Now he is getting it on the daily by the girl of his dreams. The girl of his dreams, who also happens to be undefeated, undisputed, world champion of sluts. A poor mentally blocked virgin like Mia doesn't stand a chance :LOL:
 

DeviantFun

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Hmm. I`ve got nothing. :) Nothing coherent at least. Mia is bothering me so much that I find myself procrastinating during the day, thinking about how to fix her. I`m going to, selfishly, use You and anyone who wants to partake to bounce some ideas. Please be gentle, senpai.

One Idea is that she cannot reconcile what she saw Lacey do and what Lacey says now and experiencing cognitive dissonance.
She confronts Lacey about it. Its a kitchen scene with bag of drugs.

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So is Lacey bullshiting Mia or not ? At this point I am confused, dont know what to believe. They DID have more fun than we`ve been led to believe.

Second.
When Lacey was telling about Evan shower incident the only one who took it seriously was Anna. Lacey and Mia were kinda in sync. Maybe Lacey was in shock and denial idk, but they were like its another Tuesday.

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Their friendship is weird and rotten. Are we sure that Mia is not under Lacey`s influence like MC ? Lacey is a better manipulator after all.

And third weak ass stupid mega far fetched theory that spawn from the second.

To make sense about the last hurrah. What if that was Lacey idea, that she planted ? We know now that Mia can procure drugs like a magician. So whether she wanted attempt suicide or have fun one last time she needed a lot of drugs, and needed Mia to get them for her ?

So to bring my rabid thoughts together ?
They are both depraved. They are bad influence on each other. Lacey got Mia wrapped around her finger. Lacey never reprimand her when she bring up the past in a casual way. Why ? Why are they friends ?

ok, guys tear me a new one.
I am gonna tear you a new one only for the speculations that contradict the story ;).

Lacey was punishing herself because she sees herself as garbage and wants to feel like garbage.
She has a lot of self hate, and some of that self hate comes from how she betrayed MC in phase 1 and phase 2.
It is repeated often.
Why would she bullshit her pimp? She never did, she is the only one that knows everything, literally everything, from how mc's dick taste to barty to the parties, to everything.
The only thing she didn't know was who was participating in the tennis dates.

Second: Lacey is in shock and accepts what happened as a minor thing since she is used to worse, common in abuse victims.
She is also non confrontational.
The pimp is pumped up and happy, saying that she would touch herself thinking of such abuse, which obviously is madness for a rape victim.
Their behaviour is very different.

Now I am gonna tear you a new one, it is stated by the pimp and Lacey both, that the hurrah idea comes 100% from the pimp.
Like a good pimp she was contacted by a customer and had a great idea about a last hurrah, not a party, but a horrible three week rape.

Lacey at that point never says no, she is almost a shell.

Lacey is not innocent, but the pimp is a certified abuser and garbage person.
 
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Mia threatening Lacey with stealing MC, is like me threatening Jon Jones with a beating
Who? Anyway...

Like i said before, Lacey is treating the cuckquean as a compensation for the damage to MC, and a reward for the loyalty for the girls. Its never a real risk, as friends they wont steal him, hell anna had good ammo against Lacey and deleted it, she has give up and is content whith the "treats" that Lacey throws her way. (Anna free pass sex, maybe future cuckquean sharing)

Sex with Mia would never be a threat, she is far to deep in her "friendship" with Lacey to really steal him. At most she would go for a sharing and Lacey knows. She even pushed for it in the free pass.

The only ever real risk is kelly (she was outside her calculations) and shes trying to rope her into the safe zone circle inmediately.
 

AL.d

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Sep 26, 2016
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Hmm. I`ve got nothing. :) Nothing coherent at least. Mia is bothering me so much that I find myself procrastinating during the day, thinking about how to fix her. I`m going to, selfishly, use You and anyone who wants to partake to bounce some ideas. Please be gentle, senpai.

One Idea is that she cannot reconcile what she saw Lacey do and what Lacey says now and experiencing cognitive dissonance.
She confronts Lacey about it. Its a kitchen scene with bag of drugs.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

So is Lacey bullshiting Mia or not ? At this point I am confused, dont know what to believe. They DID have more fun than we`ve been led to believe.

Second.
When Lacey was telling about Evan shower incident the only one who took it seriously was Anna. Lacey and Mia were kinda in sync. Maybe Lacey was in shock and denial idk, but they were like its another Tuesday.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Their friendship is weird and rotten. Are we sure that Mia is not under Lacey`s influence like MC ? Lacey is a better manipulator after all.

And third weak ass stupid mega far fetched theory that spawn from the second.

To make sense about the last hurrah. What if that was Lacey idea, that she planted ? We know now that Mia can procure drugs like a magician. So whether she wanted attempt suicide or have fun one last time she needed a lot of drugs, and needed Mia to get them for her ?

So to bring my rabid thoughts together ?
They are both depraved. They are bad influence on each other. Lacey got Mia wrapped around her finger. Lacey never reprimand her when she bring up the past in a casual way. Why ? Why are they friends ?

ok, guys tear me a new one.
The first dialogue you posted is just two bitches shifting their individual blame on each other. Because they are allergic to accountability.

DF will obviously disagree on that, but I'm fully with Mia on Lacey doing all those things because she wanted to. Not because she was pushed to. She just deflects and shifts blame because she doesn't want to face the fact she really is that girl and after the initial barrier broke, Mia was just the excuse. And a nice validation fix.

On the other hand, if we agree that Lacey did what she wanted to do, as any fully functional adult who had no issue getting their degree would, then the "you let me" Mia uses here, is also pure hypocrisy and deflection. No one forced you to enable all that shit bitch. You could have pulled back and take the excuse from her anytime. But you didn't because you were getting off to it like a cuck.
 

Dragonlight

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Thank you DeviantFun, I think I get what is bothering me the most.

The pimp is pumped up and happy, saying that she would touch herself thinking of such abuse, which obviously is madness for a rape victim.
This. Mia`s character and her presence in the story defies all logic. I tried to rationalize her presence, but its a fool`s errand.
 

DeviantFun

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Dec 20, 2018
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Thank you DeviantFun, I think I get what is bothering me the most.



This. Mia`s character and her presence in the story defies all logic. I tried to rationalize her presence, but its a fool`s errand.
Want to add the last log to the fire?

She likes seeing Lacey treated like garbage because she likes "cocky" (abusive) guys.
MC is the exact opposite, I mean in act1 he starts talking back at the club with her, but then reverts to stuttering.
He surely doesn't stutter with Jeanette and Bethany, so it is a bit weird overall.

She is totally convinced Lacey will like any abuse (from the private moments with mc we see it is not really true) simply because she likes looking at it and have some fantasies.
 

Maviarab

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I have thrown the theory that mia felt more than friendship for Lacey, and that college past would be exactly what your meme means.
I think we've all bandied this one around haven't we, it certainly fits the narrative in a lot of places.
 

Fmedic

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Jul 9, 2025
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Thank you DeviantFun, I think I get what is bothering me the most.



This. Mia`s character and her presence in the story defies all logic. I tried to rationalize her presence, but its a fool`s errand.
I'm glad someone brought this up, maybe before but I didn't catch it.

A rape victims will always (normally) protect, point out the bad, Help someone. They normally want to keep rape from happening to another person. WTF
 

Dragonlight

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Jul 17, 2019
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Want to add the last log to the fire?

She likes seeing Lacey treated like garbage because she likes "cocky" (abusive) guys.
MC is the exact opposite, I mean in act1 he starts talking back at the club with her, but then reverts to stuttering.
He surely doesn't stutter with Jeanette and Bethany, so it is a bit weird overall.

She is totally convinced Lacey will like any abuse (from the private moments with mc we see it is not really true) simply because she likes looking at it and have some fantasies.
Whoa whoa whoa, chill dude ! I think she stopped breathing already !
 
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