VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Pugthulhu]

You mean like...run for the damn hills with Kelly?

I don't think that's the right answer either, but I get where you are going.

Is there something in the story that I'm missing on this one? Or is this just you taking pleasure in beating up Lacey?

Fixed that one for you. Maybe she could bring it up in the therapy appointments she doesn't go to.

Fair enough on that correction.
However, once again, is her not going to therapy something I missed or a theory?

I see where you are coming from here, but let me just try to work some things out. Please elaborate if there is something in the game I'm not remembering correctly or your ideas, because it's fun to talk and think through.

First, based on her history I doubt she has ever been to therapy before her marriage.
She is also an art student that probably has not had much education in the therapy department.
1. Some of the things she has said about her therapy sessions are things I would not expect her to come up with if she hasn't had contact with someone in a therapy situation.
2. I feel that Dianne has talked to her long enough and is smart enough that she would be able to tell if Lacey is making it up and has not really been to therapy.
3. Lacey has made comments with the girls when the MC is not around about wanting him to go to therapy too. The way she said it to me sounded like someone who has experienced it.

 

[Maviarab]

While I am interested to see how the "healing" develops... I gotta say...

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Is there something in the story that I'm missing on this one? Or is this just you taking pleasure in beating up Lacey?

No...none of us really know what the hell the Disney Princess is doing during the KW. It's like she went full on assault Lacey for the shits and giggles. Very odd....

However, once again, is her not going to therapy something I missed or a theory?

I'm a firm believer there is no brain damage, there was no clinic appointment...there is no therapist...there are no appointments. I will die on this hill...until we see a render of her actually being there.

Some of the things she has said about her therapy sessions

Yeeeeaaahhh....she said/discussed quite a lot in just '2' 1 hour therapy sessions.....didn't she? Now...is the time to look at my excel timeline sheet

Also, to save you searching, you might enjoy reading this:
https://f95zone.to/threads/love-jealousy-act-2-professor-amethyst-games.252651/post-18087089

 

[CrysusPariah2]

While I am interested to see how the "healing" develops... I gotta say...

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Same, don’t care as much about how they heal, as i do about more drama and trauma brought up.
What is Lacey’s next lie that unravels?
How does Mia drive a wedge between them next?

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I don't think that's the right answer either, but I get where you are going.


Is there something in the story that I'm missing on this one? Or is this just you taking pleasure in beating up Lacey?


Fair enough on that correction.
However, once again, is her not going to therapy something I missed or a theory?

I see where you are coming from here, but let me just try to work some things out. Please elaborate if there is something in the game I'm not remembering correctly or your ideas, because it's fun to talk and think through.

First, based on her history I doubt she has ever been to therapy before her marriage.
She is also an art student that probably has not had much education in the therapy department.
1. Some of the things she has said about her therapy sessions are things I would not expect her to come up with if she hasn't had contact with someone in a therapy situation.
2. I feel that Dianne has talked to her long enough and is smart enough that she would be able to tell if Lacey is making it up and has not really been to therapy.
3. Lacey has made comments with the girls when the MC is not around about wanting him to go to therapy too. The way she said it to me sounded like someone who has experienced it.

The short answer is:
In Mavi’s headcannon, unless we get visual or trustworthy third party confirmation, everything Lacey’s says is a half-truth or downright lie, e.g. going to therapy

 

[Maviarab]

The short answer is:
In Mavi’s headcannon, unless we get visual or trustworthy third party confirmation, everything Lacey’s says is a half-truth or downright lie, e.g. going to therapy

Well..to be fair...pretty much everything she says IS a half-truth or a lie...I mean...I counted them all up lmao.

So not believing anything she says at this point is actually the sane, sensible....and logical thing, especially given the MC knows she constantly lies to his face...as does Mia and Anna....

Expo: But yes, maybe I am more biased than others, having once been married to a complusive lying, pill addict....she would lie about simple shit such as buying a new stick of lipstick...unfortunately, it's seems incredibly unlikely the prof will let our intrepid MC do what I did...

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Well..to be fair...pretty much everything she says IS a half-truth or a lie...I mean...I counted them all up lmao.

So not believing anything she says at this point is actually the sane, sensible....and logical thing.

Not saying you are wrong, just clearing up pugs confusion and abbreviating the cause of maybe 80% of the valid conspiracy theories we have in this thread

 

[Maviarab]

Not saying you are wrong, just clearing up pugs confusion and abbreviating the cause of maybe 80% of the valid conspiracy theories we have in this thread

hahaha gotya...I mean...you're also not wrong...but I do have genuine reasons rofl.

 

[funnythings3785]

That is the thing... how much of these inconsistencies (illogical or out of character changes) with certain characters are setups or just writing oversights?

It makes it difficult to consider what is in store. I am not saying that is bad, but traditional story writing tends to put in foreshadowing aspects that clever readers can decipher that lead to seeing that result or at least not being entirely surprised.

With Lacey, she has lied so much, and continues to lie... it is difficult to figure it out... and I think it would be an issue in the writing to leave it unresolved.

I keep expecting the other shoe to drop with Lacey, but at the same time, based on how the writing is developing, I keep getting the sense that it is just an oversight in the continuity, which seems to be an issue with a lot of the characters.

If it turns out that these ARE foreshadowing, great... but if they are never resolved... well... then I think that takes away from the story.

 

[Maviarab]

That is the thing... how much of these inconsistencies (illogical or out of character changes) with certain characters are setups or just writing oversights?

It makes it difficult to consider what is in store. I am not saying that is bad, but traditional story writing tends to put in foreshadowing aspects that clever readers can decipher that lead to seeing that result or at least not being entirely surprised.

With Lacey, she has lied so much, and continues to lie... it is difficult to figure it out... and I think it would be an issue in the writing to leave it unresolved.

I keep expecting the other shoe to drop with Lacey, but at the same time, based on how the writing is developing, I keep getting the sense that it is just an oversight in the continuity, which seems to be an issue with a lot of the characters.

If it turns out that these ARE foreshadowing, great... but if they are never resolved... well... then I think that takes away from the story.

I'll be the first to admit I've criticised the prof's writing a lot. A hell of a lot and in hindsight, that may have been premature and out of order. As you say, right now, it could be either or...but the time I spent deciphering, working out days, who said what, when, how many 'actual confirmed' lies etc....the more I am leaning into him being a far better writer than I originally gave credit for.

I would be sincerely disapppointed if all the 'what ifs' actually turn out to be bad writing/lazy errors. Very disappointed. However, if on the flip...it is all intentional then damn, blown away.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I'm a firm believer there is no brain damage, there was no clinic appointment...there is no therapist...there are no appointments. I will die on this hill...until we see a render of her actually being there.

Yeeeeaaahhh....she said/discussed quite a lot in just '2' 1 hour therapy sessions.....didn't she? Now...is the time to look at my excel timeline sheet

Also, to save you searching, you might enjoy reading this:
https://f95zone.to/threads/love-jealousy-act-2-professor-amethyst-games.252651/post-18087089

Ok, so even though I hope it's not the case I can keep an open mind. I read the post and got the timeline. Holy crap that's huge. I'll go through it later.

Unless this is an even bigger lie with Mia and Lacey both working together I tend to believe the brain damage. The author seems to do research on things and Ketamine abuse is linked to brain damage. Maybe she didn't use long enough to be damaged I don't know, but it's believable. Of course it being believable makes it an easier lie.

And yes, if the author has done this much research for this then it does seem that smaller details could be accurate.

I really don't know what to think. I think there are enough plot threads going on in the game with FV, the betrayal, and the may love interests that I hope the Lacey conspiracy theories with therapy and the lies are just to much.

I have no doubt that Lacey still has lies that have not come out. I'm sure that she is still lying about things and one of those could be therapy.
But i will say one thing again that you did not explain your opinion of.
That is Dianne. She is not on Lacey's side. It is established that she is very familiar with therapy and recovery. Do you not think in the talks she had done with Lacey she would have at least sensed something was up. And also do you not think that when she sensed it should would not have gone directly to the MC to help him?
I would be more inclined to believe this if Dianne had said that she didn't think Lacey was really in therapy and the MC would have made an excuse.
Instead, she believe it enough that she is encouraging Lacey to share things with her tharapist.

All that being said. I thought at the time that the MC should have ask Lacey to go with her to her first session. Not to be part of it, but to say "I just want to know where you are going".
I think it's time for the MC to turn on google location sharing on Lacey's phone and keep track of where she is.

 

[Maviarab]

That is Dianne. She is not on Lacey's side. It is established that she is very familiar with therapy and recovery. Do you not think in the talks she had done with Lacey she would have at least sensed something was up.

Ok. I would urge at some point....to definitely play through again. Maybe when Act3 drops. What you pick up on a second, third playthrough is quite amazing (now you know the story and all the shock events). You can actually 'read' the story rather than going...wtf every 5 mins lol.

Ok..so really, all Lacey says is....yes I spoke to my therapist about this...yes, my therapist said the same. Remember, Lacey very, very good at covering her ass and making people think what she wants them to....she is basically just (in reality) agreeing with Diane and appeasing her....

All that being said. I thought at the time that the MC should have ask Lacey to go with her to her first session. Not to be part of it, but to say "I just want to know where you are going".
I think it's time for the MC to turn on google location sharing on Lacey's phone and keep track of where she is.

Well....on this, she comes up with a feable excuse for not telling the MC about the initial clinic visit. Personally find that difficult to believe but whatever, roll with that for a moment. Her first 'therapy' visit? She goes on her own. Does that strike you as odd? Not even Mia went with her for 'moral support'....I'll ask again....does that strike you as normal for her? Didn't even ask Mia to go with her and sit in the waiting room? (I can understand her not wanting the MC...but again, he asks one question, she deflects....ok, I can maybe even perhaps understand that, but then he asks about the office iirc....and she completely shuts him down and deflects again).

I can get her not wanting to talk about it...perfectly normal...but her reactions are not normal to the questions.....

In my opinion....

 

[funnythings3785]

I'll be the first to admit I've criticised the prof's writing a lot. A hell of a lot and in hindsight, that may have been premature and out of order. As you say, right now, it could be either or...but the time I spent deciphering, working out days, who said what, when, how many 'actual confirmed' lies etc....the more I am leaning into him being a far better writer than I originally gave credit for.

I would be sincerely disapppointed if all the 'what ifs' actually turn out to be bad writing/lazy errors. Very disappointed. However, if on the flip...it is all intentional then damn, blown away.

Yeah, I am actually hoping all these inconsistencies lead to some shocking revelations. Maybe I am just being more pragmatic concerning the story, but the idea of the MC ending up with Lacey isn't something I can see as a realistic result.

Honestly, it would make more sense for this roller coaster ride to end with the MC finally coming to some self respect and realizing that he needs to cut ties with everything and move on and those "inconsistencies" would be perfect staging points for numerous train wrecks that bring him to this realization.

It would be like a pinball machine as he is getting thrown around constantly until he realizes the whole thing is a mind game and decides to exit the stage by some means that provides a good closure to it all.

 

[Chaoticjustice]

I'm a firm believer there is no brain damage, there was no clinic appointment...there is no therapist...there are no appointments. I will die on this hill...until we see a render of her actually being there.

Yeeeeaaahhh....she said/discussed quite a lot in just '2' 1 hour therapy sessions.....didn't she? Now...is the time to look at my excel timeline sheet

Also, to save you searching, you might enjoy reading this:
https://f95zone.to/threads/love-jealousy-act-2-professor-amethyst-games.252651/post-18087089

I've always had my doubts about the brain damage and the therapy, personally I find it all to be just too convenient

And I genuinely would not be surprised if it all came out as a lie and it was just something Lacey came up with as a way to shift blame for doing what ever she wants to do

Let's remember anything that Lacey does there is always a reason on why it happened and why we shouldn't blame her and how it isn't actually her fault

It's also always really bothered me around her goals she sets as part of her therapy, now I can't remember remember them exactly but being a better wife is either very low on that list or not on it at all and that always rubbed me the wrong way

 

[Maviarab]

Let's remember anything that Lacey does there is always a reason on why it happened and why we shouldn't blame her and how it isn't actually her fault

 

[Chaoticjustice]

plus if she was genuinely in therapy i do feel like she would/should do more to help guide the mc into therapy especially around his PTSD episodes where he forgets things that have happened

but she wont as it purely benefits her when the mc has an episode and forgets something as its likely down to lacey doing some stupid shit or saying something she shouldn't

now I will die on this hill but lacey will not do anything / support someone or what ever else unless by doing it, it benefits her directly

 

[Pugthulhu]

Ok. I would urge at some point....to definitely play through again. Maybe when Act3 drops. What you pick up on a second, third playthrough is quite amazing (now you know the story and all the shock events). You can actually 'read' the story rather than going...wtf every 5 mins lol.

Ok..so really, all Lacey says is....yes I spoke to my therapist about this...yes, my therapist said the same. Remember, Lacey very, very good at covering her ass and making people think what she wants them to....she is basically just (in reality) agreeing with Diane and appeasing her....


Well....on this, she comes up with a feable excuse for not telling the MC about the initial clinic visit. Personally find that difficult to believe but whatever, roll with that for a moment. Her first 'therapy' visit? She goes on her own. Does that strike you as odd? Not even Mia went with her for 'moral support'....I'll ask again....does that strike you as normal for her? Didn't even ask Mia to go with her and sit in the waiting room? (I can understand her not wanting the MC...but again, he asks one question, she deflects....ok, I can maybe even perhaps understand that, but then he asks about the office iirc....and she completely shuts him down and deflects again).

I can get her not wanting to talk about it...perfectly normal...but her reactions are not normal to the questions.....

In my opinion....

I will probably replay before Act 3. After all this talk I do want to. I don't normally replay games, but I'm starting to want to now.

As for Dianne, I understand what you are saying, but there is alot of off screen conversation that goes on between the two of them. Maybe I'm trying to add stuff that isn't there and maybe the only thing we can really go on is what we actually see. I do see Dianne as a source to validate the therapy, but I can accept that this could be wrong based on what is in the game.

If I remember correctly she first went for an initial visit at the clinic. There wasn't much said about this, but I thought they said Mia was with her for that. I may be wrong.
Also, if I remember correctly, For her first therapy session the MC ask her if she wanted him to go and she said she would rather go by herself. He justified this that it was a personal thing and he understood.
Once again, what you say could be correct and it does track with her history. I hope it's not the case.

One last thing on this is. It seems to me that over the last two acts the story has moved. Act 1 was all about Lacey's lies and dealing with her past. But Act 2 moved a little away from that by focusing on the MCs PTSD and insecurities. The Lies were still there, but the MCs biggest meltdown was not caused by Lacey's lies it was caused by another.
Maybe Act 3 moves even further from Lacey's lies as the primary conflict and more to the outer forces that are threatening our group. Once again, her lies will always be important and hurt the MC. And it's very possible that the story goes full circle and comes back around her lie causing everything.

Just thinking about all this now and not sure.

 

[Maviarab]

now I will die on this hill but lacey will not do anything / support someone or what ever else unless by doing it it benefits her directly

Going forward...this may be tenuous....past and present...I'm with you 100%

but I'm starting to want to now.

Hehehe....this 'simple' little VN has a way of really drawing you in doesn't it?

One last thing on this is. It seems to me that over the last two acts the story has moved

Very much so yes, for whatever reason remains to be seen. Originally, this was supposed to be a small'ish story/VN...but as its popularity took hold it surprised the prof somewhat so he is expanding on it. Now, is that the cause of the tonal shift as, as you say, the two acts are quite different from each other. Almost like in a way Act2 has been 'tacked on'....the prof may have lost track of most his original thoughts and 'came up' with a way of continuing it? Or it was always supposed to be like this, but he is now stretching out storylines he had in the back his head? You are not wrong though in noticing how different they are.

Just thinking about all this now and not sure.

Heheh....you can see how it generated so much interest/talking in such a short time. If I may say...you have 17 posts in 5 years...16 of them in here over 2 days lmao. This crazy train wreck just won't let you off lol. The engine on fire, the driver has bailed and the doors are firmly locked lmao.

Edit: To just muddle your noodle a little more...the other hill I'm prepared to die on is: The Succubus has been in Isaac's house....I'm calling it now lol....just to add to the drama lmao.

 

[Chaoticjustice]

Going forward...this may be tenuous....past and present...I'm with you 100%


Hehehe....this 'simple' little VN has a way of really drawing you in doesn't it?

Very much so yes, for whatever reason remains to be seen. Originally, this was supposed to be a small'ish story/VN...but as its popularity took hold it surprised the prof somewhat so he is expanding on it. Now, is that the cause of the tonal shift as, as you say, the two acts are quite different from each other. Almost like in a way Act2 has been 'tacked on'....the prof may have lost track of most his original thoughts and 'came up' with a way of continuing it? Or it was always supposed to be like this, but he is now stretching out storylines he had in the back his head? You are not wrong though in noticing how different they are.

Heheh....you can see how it generated so much interest/talking in such a short time. If I may say...you have 17 posts in 5 years...16 of them in here over 2 days lmao. This crazy train wreck just won't let you off lol. The engine on fire, the driver has bailed and the doors are firmly locked lmao.

I'm also going to to throw a big one out there now

I'm not sure I'm convinced on her whole abusive past, now it could just be an oversight on the devs end

But have you ever noticed she never mentions it or that nothing at all triggers something from her past with the abuse

Like I'm pretty sure that no one outside of Lacey knows the finer details of her abuse , it just seems to be that people know of her past and that's it

Now I might be off the mark with this but surely with something like that you'd have some triggers that you'd tell your partner....right?

All we know is that the MC has picked up on somethings and made rules regarding them , we don't even know if the rules are actually beneficial to her or not

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Ok, so even though I hope it's not the case I can keep an open mind. I read the post and got the timeline. Holy crap that's huge. I'll go through it later.

Ah, yes, Mav has a huge...helmet. Jokes aside, that was a lot of work and effort put, and it shows, its awesome, please take note of the difference in the amount of events from Act 1 to Act 2. Its quite abysmal. It slow down a lot. With Act 3 supposed to be a little longer, i hope it gets a more balanced pace. Its not good to always be full on or almost stoped.

Unless this is an even bigger lie with Mia and Lacey both working together I tend to believe the brain damage.

Problem with it, its that its effects are not shown properly. Lacey is capable of understanding intent... when she wants. The brain damage is used as an excuse to cover her faults, but never for anything else. And as the game progresses completely forgotten. So in the end its treated as another "poor Lacey is not at fault" excuse.

I do see Dianne as a source to validate the therapy, but I can accept that this could be wrong based on what is in the game.

On the Jealosy Date, theres another reference to the therapyst if getting sexual is allowed. Anyway, while i dont doubt the existance of this sessions, the content otherwise... Maybe Lacey did reuse one of her tactics and told her the "beautiful version" of the events. Like she usually does to MC. So going solo and hearing only her side of the therapy session its not really coming from a trustable source. Thats why she needs someone to come along with her, to keep her straight, acountable, and accurate. Sort of what Anna did when Isaac visited her to "appologice".

Even better if it was the MC who acompanies her, and in the session we get a peek to the real reassons that led her to take all those stupid decissions so far. MC (and we) deserve some real explanations.

As for Lacey not wanting to talk about the therapy... Remember the bit from Dianne saying the therapist would never recomend divorce unless one side is actively hurting the other? Remember that even Lacey agrees that MC is in an abusive relationship? Yeah, maybe the first thing the therapist said was, "Girl, leave your husband alone, he dosent deserve this shit you are doing." And we all know how Lacey cant live without MC

All we know is that the MC has picked up on somethings and made rules regarding them , we don't even know if the rules are actually beneficial to her or not

I mean... not even one of the rules still apply? And there were a lot of them... all of them dont apply anymore?

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I'm also going to to throw a big one out there now

I'm not sure I'm convinced on her whole abusive past, now it could just be an oversight on the devs end

But have you ever noticed she never mentions it or that nothing at all triggers something from her past with the abuse

Like I'm pretty sure that no one outside of Lacey knows the finer details of her abuse , it just seems to be that people know of her past and that's it

Now I might be off the mark with this but surely with something like that you'd have some triggers that you'd tell your partner....right?

All we know is that the MC has picked up on somethings and made rules regarding them , we don't even know if the rules are actually beneficial to her or not

Nah, this is reaching and at best wishful headcannon.

Nothing we know about the about the past, be it via MC, Lacey or Mia supports this theory.

completely disregards the need for red bra night, Lacey’s suicide attempts, that Mia was also present for, or the visible injuries/other symptoms Lacey would have back in school that prompted some of the 243 rules

Not to forget she couldn’t handle anybody else initiating physical touch with.
Something a child wouldn’t be faking