VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Dorothea76]

Adding these quotes from the game. And something for those who doubt that the MC is continuing the cycle of abuse

L "all of my pain and suffering would cloud my mind."
L "I would see my mother's cold cruelty."
L "I would see my father's physical and sexual abuse."
L "I couldn't just see 'you'."
L "The only thing I wanted to see."
L "Intimacy made me sick all the way down to my core."

L "I thought I was hiding when my father touched me."
L "But I guess he knew."
L "He knew me much better than I knew myself."

L "The second reason for tears was because I had achieved what I thought was impossible."
L "I had disassociated intimacy from my abuse."
L "I could be intimate and not think of my father."

"My heart was beating so fast it felt like each beat bled into the next."
"I had done the most awful thing I could ever do."
"I became her father."
"I hit her."
"I abused her."
"I was no better than him."

MC "I hit you."
MC "I'm just like your father."

So you might be right that the MC saw the video but he already knew that her father abused her. Stephan was her consensual first.

I think he knew, but blocked it in his mind. Seeing her like this shortly after he wasn´t allowed to touch her not only broke his barrier, he got a new horrible perspective...
But these are just my thoughts

 

[NewGuy2022]

I reread your post several times, hoping to find at least a shred of common sense, but I didn't find any.
I hope you take a break from your medications; they're not doing you any good.

I'm serious.

The only reason I didn't throw an emoji your way is because I've used up my quota of reactions for today.

 

[monkeyqueen]

The only reason I didn't throw an emoji your way is because I've used up my quota of reactions for today.

Let's be honest. The other reasons are that you:

have the same sort of attitude towards sex that MC does
the same level of intellectual curiosity that Soyara has

I mean there's a reason I'm the only one that didn't people change their personalities in act 3. If you accept that the MC is the abuser - and he literally says he's an abuser more than once - then act 3 makes a great deal of sense.

It's actually my favorite act because Lacey is just starting to stand up for herself.

 

[NewGuy2022]

If she acts like a POS and so on, why people would want her around? MC in primis? Does it mean that in universe the behaviour is seen as cool and dandy?

With all the talk about "protecting" MC, being what MC "wants" and so on, why no one ever utters a word when someone is actively harming him? Does it mean that the behaviour is a-ok?

f MC or one of the characters having his back supposedly, was allowed to recognize his wife is spending her day cheating on him, then he or one of the others would also have to point a finger towards the person orchestrating it.

Abby's actions enabled Lacey to do Lacey things. That's the priority in this story. I'd love to change this mantra but I'm not seeing any content to justify my seeing things any other way. I am looking, esp. on my 2d playthrough.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I disagree on this, you can "downplay" Lacey obvious cheating in act 3 while still chastizing bad people properly.

It is a real issue in the writing, women cannot be chastized or seen as bad people, for now at least.

I am also not discounting the idea of Abby trying to wake up MC, surely the way it was done in the writing was purely for shock value reasons, as the usual leitmotiv of someone giving "lessons" to MC.
Lessons that prove again and again to be disastruous, but from where MC magically learns.

So sure have her be abrasive a pos garbage person as she is written, but then the actions need to catch up, the message could still be received, without the insult of seeing zero consequences (this is another horrible notch on Jeanette character).

Or maybe, just maybe, write a fuck up from Lacey (induced or otherwise), have MC react and then some dialogue and relationship building with the abrasive person, so that MC doesn't look like a dashcam and the rest of the cast do not look like they are enabling and encouraging shitty behaviour towards MC.

I strongly disagree on everything you wrote, as you used quotes from a self deprecating and self hating character to give the message: "see? even him says that he sucks", yeah that is the gist of his character, MC is self deprecating and has a completely shot self esteem.
It is very well explained in the story, especially act 2.

As I strongly disagree with the professor way of thinking that "the past does not matter, what it matters is the present".

First of all, Lacey in the present, brain damaged or not, is acting badly.
From lying to MC to get married (the dialogue in the anniversary dinner was particurlarly shocking), to everything she has done after, trampling over him day and night (if we go by the dialogue, unwillingly or not realizing).
How could she not realize after 3 acts that what she has done in Vegas was not ok even after getting sober is...weird.

But lets say that we cannot keep a bran damaged woman accountable, who has the right to say how another person should feel?
When does the past starts not mattering anymore?

Are we saying that if Lacey's mother tries to come back in her life and acts as the best mother that ever existed, the past should not matter?
What matters is what she is doing right now to fix things, right?
Why should Lacey keep the past over her head?

What is Mia doing to fix her past errors and abuse? By bringing drugs? By betraying her best friend twice in the span of a few months?

See, the whole message is extremely schewed, and tailored to be in strong favour of "some" characters even if it tramples on the right of MC to feel what he feels.
Sure he should get help, but feeling angry or betrayed or even not being ok with what happened is in his court, as it should be.

You do not dictate how a victim should feel, as it is extremely crass and cruel.

And do not get me wrong, I feel very close to Lacey, I know how things are sometimes, I know what it means to have zero control over your impulses because you are fucked up.
Still, the narrative is , in my opinion, getting a bit toxic as the message is not "MC needs to accept and put stuff in the trunk because he needs to be better so HE can be happy" but "MC needs to do this because it is affecting other people and especially Lacey".

But we do not know what will come in act 4, for which I have great hope!

Their is a certain hypocrisy with the statements made here:

'You do not dictate how a victim should feel, as it is extremely crass and cruel.'

'MC needs to accept and put stuff in the trunk because he needs to be better so HE can be happy'

One line says no one should tell how a victim should feel, and the other say the victim should feel precisely this way. So is the problem that the MC should be allowed to think as he wants, or that the MC should think as you want? We are Act 3 and you still don't get it, the MC's happiness is entirely intertwined with Lacey, so telling how he should do better so he can be happy would be telling him exactly that he need to focus more on Lacey, sure your idea in theory works but in practice his happiness is entirely dependent on someone else so when that is the case their is no miracle solution, so he can only act in function of that.

It would take over a decade of therapy before he could form a thought process independent of Lacey after spending the vast majority of his life dedicating his thought process to Lacey. So within the scope of this story he is never going to solve that issue. He can only do with what he has, so trying to figure how to solve things in a way that will allow him to live in his current condition with his choices. If you say well that decade can just be magically ignored for your enjoyment, if realism isn't the point, why do you insist on a realistic thought process? He is a fictional character, what part of 'he thinks whatever the story writer want him to feel' don't you get? The MC isn't you, he is fictional, why are you trying to impose your mindset on a fictional character? You are trying to argue with GOD (the Dev), on how they should be ruling their Universe.

Oh and by the by, if anyone get to call the shot on how the MC should feel its the Dev of the game, you know again the literal GOD of the Universe embodied by this story. Because regardless if my earlier theories of supernatural influence prove to be true, the Dev is very much a supernatural force influencing the reality of this game, so what happen happens because the Dev at the top dictate it happening.

Look if you have reached the point of being so invested in this game that you can't distinguish your thought process from the MC's, that you think you should be able to will him to act and think at your full behest, maybe you should disconnect yourself from this game for a bit, its a story of which you aren't the writer, you don't have the reigns over it, merely at best a limited circumstantial navigation, you make some very specific choices and that is the end of your agency of this game, everything else is in GOD's hands, if you can't accept GOD's will, you better turn your back on this creation.

Its the difference with me, at no point do I believe I have any real power over this, I can bitch about stuff, might have made some suggestions, but expect things to go my way because I want it to? No. I mostly theorycraft, I throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what stick, its interesting thought exercises.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Her father and mother told her she was trash, her father told her she was a sex toilet.

You don't have to make shit up to prove your point that her parents were terrible. There is nothing in the script that her parents called her trash or a sex toilet.
When you add false statements to try to prove your point you just make yourself a unreliable narrator.
If you would make up small stuff like this how could anyone trust any of the comments you make?

 

[monkeyqueen]

You don't have to make shit up to prove your point that her parents were terrible. There is nothing in the script that her parents called her trash or a sex toilet.
When you add false statements to try to prove your point you just make yourself a unreliable narrator.
If you would make up small stuff like this how could anyone trust any of the comments you make?

You've got a good point - we don't know that those words were used and it would be wrong of me to saw with confidence that we know her father and mother were the first to use those words. We do know that Gristle uses them and then Lacey applies them to herself.

We do know that her self esteem problems come her abusive childhood - that her parents made her feel like trash is obvious. That her parents made her feel like a sex object is an inference drawn from the fact she is quick to accept her role as such and often says things like "this is what I am good for"

But what we do know is that Lacey understands them as a form of abuse - one she encourages at times.

L "The version of me that never makes mistakes."
L "The version of me that always sees how my actions affect you."
L "The version of me that would never do something that causes you jealousy or discomfort."
L "That version of me is a long way off."
L "So, until then you're stuck with this shitty version of me."
L "And this version of me needs to be verbally smacked around a little."

Now it's tempting to linger on the fact that she is asking for abuse here and not the fact that she interprets the sexualized insults that Gristle lavishes on her as verbal abuse

And if you question that her self esteem issues come from her abusive childhood let me know and I'll quote the game.

Edit:

L "My father made sure I could never truly love myself."

(now we don't know if this last statement is Lacey or Gristle's hallucination but it doesn't matter because both know it to be true - Lacey's self hatred did not come from college, she was a self hating, self abusing child long before then )

 

[Yabba]

Could you say that again using different words? Sincere question. I simply did not understand you.

What I am asking is: do you believe Lacey self deprecates yes or no?

My answer is hell yes.




Lacey's problem is not that. It's that she takes the blame for others. She is too willing to take the blame. Indeed - tragically - she stops the MC from taking the blame time and time again. Yes, this does do damage to them both.

If in the shark and remora dialogue she had just said yes to the MC "yes, you need to realize that you are at fault but I will support you and love you while we go to therapy together" the game would have ended.



This is important - she didn't do that in college. "She" did that when she was 6 years old and her father abused her. Her father and mother told her she was trash, her father told her she was a sex toilet. She hated herself then - she stabbed herself with pencils, she sliced herself with knives - all in acts of self hatred.

She leaned into degrading sex because she hated herself AND because she wanted to get to a point where should could love the MC.

Unfortunately the MC has Maddona-Whore view of women and HE hates women who have sex before and outside marriage. At Lacey accepts his POV - just like she accepts her father's POV - because that what the children raised in abusive households do in adulthood, the find new abusers. She latched on Mia who abused her and then to the MC who abuses her.



Why do you think we get so many Lacey crying images? He abuses her every time holds her college days over her head. Every time he calls her a slut, a whore, a sex toilet he is repeating very same abuse she received at the hands of her parents.

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No, you just told that the MC was unreliable narrator. Unreliable narration is not just what "the narrator" says - it's acknowledgement that humans distort reality. People always see things through the glasses of their own trauma.

When you said (paraphrasing) "we should dismiss those statements from the MC because those are self deprecation" you were making an unreliable narrator point. You need to take statements from the characters with a grain of salt.




We're saying much of the same thing. Except that I want add so much more. The MC is unreliable because he has PTSD and probabaly DID. And he has incel views of sex. Anna - and most of the harem - are unreliable because they want to jump on this sex god.

And Lacey's views are unreliable because her father trained her to believe that she is always at fault.

So in the bit I quoted the MC was speaking truth BUT Jeannette (tragically) leads him back to sickness. Why isn't the MC right when he says that his view of sex are childish according to Jeanette? The real reason come a few scenes later: because the MC is a dreamboat. A sex god. The king of harems. J masterbates to Gristle. If J wasn't blinded by attraction and respect for his skills at work she would have just said "yeah, you need to get over it dude - I'm calling HR and asking them to send you info about therapists who take our insurance. welcome to the 21st century where men don't marry virgins"

 

[Yabba]

I agree with a lot of your deduction and thought process here , especially regarding Laceys abuse at the hands of her parents ,They are the triggers for the oral fixation the red bra nights the need to be used as a sex toilet, the need to get her partner angry before sex, the need to be punished - Lacey was all of that before college. And all of that made her hate herself and not be able to Love the MC or anyone.

Mia in someways is a godsend to Lacey -she abuses Lacey but in the opposite way to her Parents -Mia gives Lacey the pathway to finally explore all of deep wierd sex feelings instilled by her parents. To embrace them and finally detach her father from sex.

The rest is history.

I agree to some degree the MC does unintentionally abuse Lacey via throwing her past in her face but i feel this is just the fact that two very different people are magnetically attracted to each other through past events.

 

[DeviantFun]

Their is a certain hypocrisy with the statements made here:

'You do not dictate how a victim should feel, as it is extremely crass and cruel.'

'MC needs to accept and put stuff in the trunk because he needs to be better so HE can be happy'

One line says no one should tell how a victim should feel, and the other say the victim should feel precisely this way. So is the problem that the MC should be allowed to think as he wants, or that the MC should think as you want? We are Act 3 and you still don't get it, the MC's happiness is entirely intertwined with Lacey, so telling how he should do better so he can be happy would be telling him exactly that he need to focus more on Lacey, sure your idea in theory works but in practice his happiness is entirely dependent on someone else so when that is the case their is no miracle solution, so he can only act in function of that.

It would take over a decade of therapy before he could form a thought process independent of Lacey after spending the vast majority of his life dedicating his thought process to Lacey. So within the scope of this story he is never going to solve that issue. He can only do with what he has, so trying to figure how to solve things in a way that will allow him to live in his current condition with his choices. If you say well that decade can just be magically ignored for your enjoyment, if realism isn't the point, why do you insist on a realistic thought process? He is a fictional character, what part of 'he thinks whatever the story writer want him to feel' don't you get? The MC isn't you, he is fictional, why are you trying to impose your mindset on a fictional character? You are trying to argue with GOD (the Dev), on how they should be ruling their Universe.

Oh and by the by, if anyone get to call the shot on how the MC should feel its the Dev of the game, you know again the literal GOD of the Universe embodied by this story. Because regardless if my earlier theories of supernatural influence prove to be true, the Dev is very much a supernatural force influencing the reality of this game, so what happen happens because the Dev at the top dictate it happening.

Look if you have reached the point of being so invested in this game that you can't distinguish your thought process from the MC's, that you think you should be able to will him to act and think at your full behest, maybe you should disconnect yourself from this game for a bit, its a story of which you aren't the writer, you don't have the reigns over it, merely at best a limited circumstantial navigation, you make some very specific choices and that is the end of your agency of this game, everything else is in GOD's hands, if you can't accept GOD's will, you better turn your back on this creation.

Its the difference with me, at no point do I believe I have any real power over this, I can bitch about stuff, might have made some suggestions, but expect things to go my way because I want it to? No. I mostly theorycraft, I throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what stick, its interesting thought exercises.

You completely missed the point I made.

So first of all, what I mention about MC is the message that we are given.

The story tells us that he is unwell and should get better, never once I see the message that this is something that he should do for himself (you know, the actual victim that should heal), but it seems pushing towards the message that he should heal mostly because he is affecting others.

It is putting the victim at the center of the healing journey opposite from putting everyone else.
Not a strange concept not dictating how Mc should feel about things, if he has suicidal thoughts I do not think it is particurlarly weird to wish him to heal the same way you would wish Lacey to heal.
In fact, Lacey, as a victim, should heal first and foremost for herself, not for MC or anyone else, they are secondary in her healing journey.
Moreover, I doubt you will find anyone in the novel that states that Lacey should feel in a specific way towards what happened to her besides MC saying to her "I want you to like yourself" (victim at the center), you see the stark difference?

On you second and fankly very weird point, I see you went back on your gatekeeping over who should peruse and enjoy the novel.
I do not remember anyone telling you to stop reading the novel because your takes are all over the place and rarely make sense.

But lets get into the gist of your message, yes the author can write whatever they want, they can write toxic characters that have no consequences for their actions, they can write frat boys that become sissies, they can write egomaniac assholes that become youth pastors, they can write characters that change personality at every act.

But this does not bar anyone to recognize that some choices make the narrative less coherent or toxic in some way (especially if you have experience in the area), you know as you would with any other book or movie.

 

[Lady Lydia]

You completely missed the point I made.

So first of all, what I mention about MC is the message that we are given.

The story tells us that he is unwell and should get better, never once I see the message that this is something that he should do for himself (you know, the actual victim that should heal), but it seems pushing towards the message that he should heal mostly because he is affecting others.

It is putting the victim at the center of the healing journey opposite from putting everyone else.
Not a strange concept not dictating how Mc should feel about things, if he has suicidal thoughts I do not think it is particurlarly weird to wish him to heal the same way you would wish Lacey to heal.
In fact, Lacey, as a victim, should heal first and foremost for herself, not for MC or anyone else, they are secondary in her healing journey.
In fact, I doubt you will find anyone in the novel that states that Lacey should feel in a specific way towards what happened to her besides MC saying to her "I want you to like yourself" (victim at the center), you see the stark difference?

On you second and fankly very weird point, I see you went back on your gatekeeping over who should peruse and enjoy the novel.
I do not remember anyone telling you to stop reading the novel because your takes are all over the place and rarely make sense.

But lets get into the gist of your message, yes the author can write whatever they want, they can write toxic characters that have no consequences for their actions, they can write frat boys that become sissies, they can write egomaniac assholes that become youth pastors, they can write characters that change personality at every act.

But this does not bar anyone to recognize that some choices make the narrative less coherent or toxic in some way (especially if you have experience in the area), you know as you would with any other book or movie.

And you missed the point I was making too, look at Lacey 'healing for herself' and in the process hurting her husband and thus causing herself inevitable woes, contrary to what you proclaim partners in a relationship shouldn't focus exclusively on themselves, they can't, a single person can focus on themselves but not partners, when two people are damaged together, they need to heal together, the MC is trying to support her in the journey but since its not a joined journey it has been mucked up.

As I said the two are bound together, their emotional wellbeing depend on one another, you can't solve the issue by having one ignore the other in the healing journey, so the solution isn't to ignore Lacey and focus on himself, its to integrate himself in her healing journey and for both to undertake it together, Lacey tried in a piss poor way to do it early on, but after 2 Acts of it failing she in Act 3 has proceeded to go at it solo but its still failing because again the solution require the two of them working on it together, she might have made some personal progress but she was doomed to hit a wall since she left her husband behind and the chains that bind them was going to pull her back inevitably.

See if this was a normal relationship where an individual carry old wounds into the relationship, than yet it would be merely on that individual to fix their issues, but here its shared wounds between the MC & Lacey, if the wound start on one and end on the other how do you want them to fix the issue alone? How do you think couple counseling work? The counselor just see one member of the couple to talk about stuff? No, they see both. If anything its what they'd have needed, not merely separate therapy but couple counseling to fix their shared troubles first.

As for the toxicity, sure their is toxicity, but the point is you haven't let the story reach the point where that toxicity can be overcome, you want all the problems solved now, you don't want an healing journey, you want an healing conclusion. People can spend years, if not decades in a dark place before healing come, but you don't want that, you just want to jump straight to a post healing story, even if reaching the point for said healing to even begin is clearly part of the struggles of this story.

Finally about the so called 'gatekeeping' its had nothing to do with gatekeeping and everything with mental healthcare advice, if you have reached the point of being so invested in this story you have issues disassociating from the MC, it might just be time you distance yourself from the game so you can process and regain your mental health, at which point you could return with a refreshed mind and look at the story without feeling as if the characterization is a personal offense to you, which is the vibe you give right now.

 

[slackster]

What would really break the MC would be finding out Lacey enjoyed the abuse from her dad

Unreliable narrator and all

 

[DeviantFun]

And you missed the point I was making too, look at Lacey 'healing for herself' and in the process hurting her husband and thus causing herself inevitable woes, contrary to what you proclaim partners in a relationship shouldn't focus exclusively on themselves, they can't, a single person can focus on themselves but not partners, when two people are damaged together, they need to heal together, the MC is trying to support her in the journey but since its not a joined journey it has been mucked up.

As I said the two are bound together, their emotional wellbeing depend on one another, you can't solve the issue by having one ignore the other in the healing journey, so the solution isn't to ignore Lacey and focus on himself, its to integrate himself in her healing journey and for both to undertake it together, Lacey tried in a piss poor way to do it early on, but after 2 Acts of it failing she in Act 3 has proceeded to go at it solo but its still failing because again the solution require the two of them working on it together, she might have made some personal progress but she was doomed to hit a wall since she left her husband behind and the chains that bind them was going to pull her back inevitably.

See if this was a normal relationship where an individual carry old wounds into the relationship, than yet it would be merely on that individual to fix their issues, but here its shared wounds between the MC & Lacey, if the wound start on one and end on the other how do you want them to fix the issue alone? How do you think couple counseling work? The counselor just see one member of the couple to talk about stuff? No, they see both. If anything its what they'd have needed, not merely separate therapy but couple counseling to fix their shared troubles first.

As for the toxicity, sure their is toxicity, but the point is you haven't let the story reach the point where that toxicity can be overcome, you want all the problems solved now, you don't want an healing journey, you want an healing conclusion. People can spend years, if not decades in a dark place before healing come, but you don't want that, you just want to jump straight to a post healing story, even if reaching the point for said healing to even begin is clearly part of the struggles of this story.

Finally about the so called 'gatekeeping' its had nothing to do with gatekeeping and everything with mental healthcare advice, if you have reached the point of being so invested in this story you have issues disassociating from the MC, it might just be time you distance yourself from the game so you can process and regain your mental health, at which point you could return with a refreshed mind and look at the story without feeling as if the characterization is a personal offense to you, which is the vibe you give right now.

Lydia, with all the possible respect, what the fuck makes you think you have any sort of insight on my, or anyone else mental health? Or that I or anyone else is associating themselves with the MC?
None of my posts, past or present, are self inserting stuff, in fact the character I might self insert the most (and I avoid that too) would be Lacey.

So, please, keep the armchair psychology to yourself and lets go back to discussing the script, shall we?

You still missed the point I made, I will try to make it as simple as possible this time:

Therapy should be approached as a personal commitment to your own well-being, prioritizing your mental health above all else. (and no it does not mean you should be hurting others, but I hope you are smart enough to understand this)

I will not go into the various methods and types of psychotherapy as I do not feel knowledgeable enough.

What would really break the MC would be finding out Lacey enjoyed the abuse from her dad

Unreliable narrator and all

Tbh we have definite proof in the script that she did not, at least mentally.

And even if she did physically, you do not blame victims of sexual abuse or rape for their the physical reaction, and from what I have read about the MC, I doubt he would.

Lacey abuse is written quite well, abusive father (or mother) with mother (or father) that punishes the child out of "jealousy" (forgive my poor english, try to understand) and victim blaming.

Not an uncommon sight, in my experience.

 

[OzBrit]

This is ridiculous. I think I am Co-Dependant on Professor Amethyst now. How am I supposed to survive till Early Next Year without the next Chapter of Love & Jealousy. .

 

[Dorothea76]

This is ridiculous. I think I am Co-Dependant on Professor Amethyst now. How am I supposed to survive till Early Next Year without the next Chapter of Love & Jealousy. .

I hope he has 243 rules for you...

 

[funnythings3785]

I agree with a lot of your deduction and thought process here , especially regarding Laceys abuse at the hands of her parents ,They are the triggers for the oral fixation the red bra nights the need to be used as a sex toilet, the need to get her partner angry before sex, the need to be punished - Lacey was all of that before college. And all of that made her hate herself and not be able to Love the MC or anyone.

Mia in someways is a godsend to Lacey -she abuses Lacey but in the opposite way to her Parents -Mia gives Lacey the pathway to finally explore all of deep wierd sex feelings instilled by her parents. To embrace them and finally detach her father from sex.

The rest is history.

I agree to some degree the MC does unintentionally abuse Lacey via throwing her past in her face but i feel this is just the fact that two very different people are magnetically attracted to each other through past events.

Mia is why Lacey is struggling to the level she is. Prior to college, Lacey was dealing with only her abuse and the MC helped her to survive it. If Lacey would have continued with the MC giving him the chance to help her, she would have found solutions to her issues pretty quickly, but in a healthy manner within a controlled respectful environment (This is admitted by Lacey in the dialogue with the MC).

Mia wasn't help at all. This is why some of us despise her, why she is called "The Pimp". Mia used Lacey, she didn't help... she took a broken and damaged girl who was struggling and used her. She did this for two reasons, because she selfishly wanted Lacey for herself, was jealous of her attachment to the MC and wanted to destroy Lacey in the eyes of the MC (notice that this is an admission that what lacey was encouraged to do was not good, healthy, or healing). The other reason was to use Lacey selfishly to deal with her own issues concerning sex. She took Lacey and used her up in the most disgusting and vile ways so she could "experience" those from her own distance of safety.

Mia is far worse than a person who self destructs through their own bad choices. She made someone else do it for her through manipulation of Lacey's state and under the guise of being a friend trying to help.

This is all stated in the dialogue. It is admitted at various points through the Acts and it is a big point in Act 3 where Lacey goes off on Mia for doing what she did.

Mia is force wrote to be "likable" by the professor, but in reality, by the events that occurred, by the actions she took and the things she did, Mia is evil to the core. She was a catalyst for Lacey's destruction, without Mia pushing her for her own selfish goals, Lacey would have never destroyed herself to the level she did in the college days and likely never developed all the problematic behaviors she has currently with the MC and this doesn't even get into the damage she did after she met the MC.

Mia is a perfect example of how the story absolves some characters entirely of their responsibility, paying a little lip service here and there, but then completely glossing over their actions and then force writing the the victims of her actions to simply ignore it and then love her like she was just a girl making a couple of minor mistakes.

I honestly don't see how anyone could view the Lacey "college days" as a positive and empowering experience for her, that is seriously disturbing.

 

[funnythings3785]

You don't have to make shit up to prove your point that her parents were terrible. There is nothing in the script that her parents called her trash or a sex toilet.
When you add false statements to try to prove your point you just make yourself a unreliable narrator.
If you would make up small stuff like this how could anyone trust any of the comments you make?

When I see people go to great lengths to inject things that do not exist in the story, it reminds me of the Rorschach test.

 

[Dorothea76]

Mia is why Lacey is struggling to the level she is. Prior to college, Lacey was dealing with only her abuse and the MC helped her to survive it. If Lacey would have continued with the MC giving him the chance to help her, she would have found solutions to her issues pretty quickly, but in a healthy manner within a controlled respectful environment (This is admitted by Lacey in the dialogue with the MC).

Mia wasn't help at all. This is why some of us despise her, why she is called "The Pimp". Mia used Lacey, she didn't help... she took a broken and damaged girl who was struggling and used her. She did this for two reasons, because she selfishly wanted Lacey for herself, was jealous of her attachment to the MC and wanted to destroy Lacey in the eyes of the MC so she could have her to herself (notice that this is an admission that what lacey was encouraged to do was not good, healthy, or healing). The other reason was to use Lacey selfishly to deal with her own issues concerning sex. She took Lacey and used her up in the most disgusting and vile ways so she could "experience" those from her own distance of safety.

Mia is far worse than a person who self destructs through their own bad choices. She made someone else do it for her through manipulation of Lacey's state and under the guise of being a friend trying to help.

This is all stated in the dialogue. It is admitted at various points through the Acts and it is a big point in Act 3 where Lacey goes off on Mia for doing what she did.

Mia is force wrote to be "likable" by the professor, but in reality, by the events that occurred, by the actions she took and the things she did, Mia is evil to the core. She was a catalyst for Lacey's destruction, without Mia pushing her for her own selfish goals, Lacey would have never destroyed herself to the level she did in the college days and likely never developed all the problematic behaviors she has currently with the MC and this doesn't even get into the damage she did after she met the MC.

Mia is a perfect example of how the story absolves some characters entirely of their responsibility, paying a little lip service here and there, but then completely glossing over their actions and then force writing the the victims of her actions to simply ignore it and then love her like she was just a girl making a couple of minor mistakes.

I honestly don't see how anyone could view the Lacey "college days" as a positive and empowering experience for her, that is seriously disturbing.

I see Mia excacly like you do, thank you for pointing it out
We don´t know how who made the videos which were used by Jared to blackmail, but Mia was there and she let it happen and I wouldn`t be too surprised it was her her who made them in the first place. Another tool for her to control Lacey
I realy hope we are getting a chance to reject her, I am so disgusted by her

 

[monkeyqueen]

When I see people go to great lengths to inject things that do not exist in the story, it reminds me of the Rorschach test.

Lacey - "My father made sure I could never truly love myself."

Not the men in college. Not her decision to make sexual degradation her form of self abuse but her parents. Mia didn't make Lacey stab herself with pencils, her parents did. Then her substitute parent repeated the abusive pattern: Mia and then her husband.

And, yes, we have the same feelings about the Rorschach - when people accept Lacey saying "I'm a bad person" but say you need to ignore the MC when he says "I'm bad person" it tells me something about what a reader is projecting into the text.

(and to be fair it's red herring incorporated into the text - most of time the MC says something negative about himself his interlocutor contradicts him, every time Lacey says something negative her interlocutor confirms it)

Again Pugthulhu is narrowly correct that we don't know that her father used those words. MC and Lacey do. Do we know that he sexually abused and made her FEEL that way?! Absolutely. And if you think differently that's something you are getting from an inkblot, not the text of the game.

Incidentally - while searching the text I found a new interesting pattern. Each time she talks about the abuse from her father the list grows. Physical > physical and sexual > psychological, sexual and physical.

Theory: her therapist is helping Lacey understand the effect the abuse had on her AND she's just starting to realize how figures like Gristle, with his love of psychological smack downs, repeats the same pattern.

MC: "I became her father."

Why? We know that Lacey's therapist doesn't like Lacey's attitudes towards her husband and she is encouraging Lacey to do things for herself.


L "I try and explain this to my therapist sometimes and she gets so frustrated with me."

L "'Lacey, it's not healthy to make your entire identity about another person, you need to live for yourself too.'"

Final tangent - this statement from her therapist is why we need to dismiss Lacey's repeated statements of "I'm selfish". Lacey thinks she is selfish and says so often. But the therapist doesn't seem to think Lacey is selfish - indeed she doesn't seem to think Lacey is sufficiently self interested.

 

[DeviantFun]

Mia is why Lacey is struggling to the level she is. Prior to college, Lacey was dealing with only her abuse and the MC helped her to survive it. If Lacey would have continued with the MC giving him the chance to help her, she would have found solutions to her issues pretty quickly, but in a healthy manner within a controlled respectful environment (This is admitted by Lacey in the dialogue with the MC).

Mia wasn't help at all. This is why some of us despise her, why she is called "The Pimp". Mia used Lacey, she didn't help... she took a broken and damaged girl who was struggling and used her. She did this for two reasons, because she selfishly wanted Lacey for herself, was jealous of her attachment to the MC and wanted to destroy Lacey in the eyes of the MC so she could have her to herself (notice that this is an admission that what lacey was encouraged to do was not good, healthy, or healing). The other reason was to use Lacey selfishly to deal with her own issues concerning sex. She took Lacey and used her up in the most disgusting and vile ways so she could "experience" those from her own distance of safety.

Mia is far worse than a person who self destructs through their own bad choices. She made someone else do it for her through manipulation of Lacey's state and under the guise of being a friend trying to help.

This is all stated in the dialogue. It is admitted at various points through the Acts and it is a big point in Act 3 where Lacey goes off on Mia for doing what she did.

Mia is force wrote to be "likable" by the professor, but in reality, by the events that occurred, by the actions she took and the things she did, Mia is evil to the core. She was a catalyst for Lacey's destruction, without Mia pushing her for her own selfish goals, Lacey would have never destroyed herself to the level she did in the college days and likely never developed all the problematic behaviors she has currently with the MC and this doesn't even get into the damage she did after she met the MC.

Mia is a perfect example of how the story absolves some characters entirely of their responsibility, paying a little lip service here and there, but then completely glossing over their actions and then force writing the the victims of her actions to simply ignore it and then love her like she was just a girl making a couple of minor mistakes.

I honestly don't see how anyone could view the Lacey "college days" as a positive and empowering experience for her, that is seriously disturbing.

This post should be pinned.

If Mia cared she would have taken a sort of MC mantle, or simply pushed just the right amount to try and help.

Hearing Lacey said "this is one of my favourite memories of sex because Mia was impressed with me" is heartbreaking.
Lacey was looking so much for validation from her "friend", and by the story we know how much Lacey needs it, that she would go to any length to satisfy her, add her mental state and issues...

Having Mia admit that she did what she did so SHE could work through her trauma was also disgusting, and obviously devoid of any consequences as all her other nefarious deeds through the story are.

But yeah to quote the game the reaction is: we're not enthused about her past, but she is pretty cool.
Is she? Really?

I guess she was pretty cool when she brought drugs to her addicted best friend, or when she was all giggly after Lacey gets SAd...heck even when she concocted the plan to break up Lacey and MC which led to the messages (you know, your best friend seemed too happy being married to the man she loves).

So even if we follow the crass victim blaming train of thought that "the past is the past" I do not see much that she has done in the story to actually say, oh look how great she is now.

Obviously now there is a tentative to redeem her by making her side with MC more or being the voice of reason here and there.
I guess that with people with short memories it could work.

I see Mia excacly like you do, thank you for pointing it out
We don´t know how who made the videos which were used by Jared to blackmail, but Mia was there and she let it happen and I wouldn`t be too surprised it was her her who made them in the first place. Another tool for her to control Lacey
I realy hope we are getting a chance to reject her, I am so disgusted by her

Nope, she is an LI with forced interactions, if you played act 3 you know what it is.