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YogSothoth1982

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,485
11,664
BlasKyau

That's the point it is just scene for sake of scene, in context of story it is like it didn't happen so what is the point to it?
How you know we differ when you didn't even play the scene? I mean If you find 1 default animation of random model hot
then yeah we differ.
Personally I don't like the way we arrived on the scene, so it's impossible for me to like it. In fact I personally like to prevent it from happening.
 

ZZ23

Newbie
Jan 21, 2019
80
125
Personally I don't like the way we arrived on the scene, so it's impossible for me to like it. In fact I personally like to prevent it from happening.
You kind of lost me now, you said that you differ on what we consider hot scene when I said that what leads to them is
what makes them good. And now you say that you can't possibly like it because you don't like how arrive to the scene.

Like I agree, but my point is that is bad in both cases since it doesn't affect game in any way. If you try to prevent it game keeps giving you option that you opted out and if you don't want to prevent then again game behaves like it didn't happen story wise. So it is like worst of both worlds.
 
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YogSothoth1982

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,485
11,664
You kind of lost me now, you said that you differ on what we consider hot scene when I said that what leads to them is
what makes them good. And now you say that you can't possibly like it because you don't like how arrive to the scene.

Like I agree, but my point is that is bad in both cases since it doesn't affect game in any way. If you try to prevent it game keeps giving you option that you opted out and if you don't want to prevent then again game behaves like it didn't happen story wise. So it is like worst of both worlds.
In the same way that I like to avoid rapes, I like to avoid that when the MC controls the LIs, he forces them to have sex scenes. I don't know what they are like, but I'm not particularly interested either, I'm only interested in preventing them from happening. In fact, I really like it, it's very stimulating.
 
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Skeltom

Engaged Member
Oct 9, 2017
2,631
3,174
In the same way that I like to avoid rapes, I like to avoid that when the MC controls the LIs, he forces them to have sex scenes. I don't know what they are like, but I'm not particularly interested either, I'm only interested in preventing them from happening. In fact, I really like it, it's very stimulating.
I enjoy it as well. It's cool the dev made it optional but they really need to do something about the lewd ratio without it. Outside of a few characters standing around nude or flashing you the game is completely devoid of sexual content. I just don't understand why it absolutely has to be rape them or go without. What makes matters worse is from what I gather using them has zero effect on any aspect of the game. The mind control for sex is just a video player I guess.

I play these for the stories but there also has to be something of an adult nature to fall back on for me to enjoy it. This particular game's story is way too linier for me anyway and if those things don't change I'll just add it to my ever growing ignore list. I haven't yet because the dev at least seems open to listening to feedback and it's still early yet but we'll see.
 
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ZZ23

Newbie
Jan 21, 2019
80
125
I enjoy it as well. It's cool the dev made it optional but they really need to do something about the lewd ratio without it. Outside of a few characters standing around nude or flashing you the game is completely devoid of sexual content. I just don't understand why it absolutely has to be rape them or go without. What makes matters worse is from what I gather using them has zero effect on any aspect of the game. The mind control for sex is just a video player I guess.

I play these for the stories but there also has to be something of an adult nature to fall back on for me to enjoy it. This particular game's story is way too linier for me anyway and if those things don't change I'll just add it to my ever growing ignore list. I haven't yet because the dev at least seems open to listening to feedback and it's still early yet but we'll see.
All of it stems from poor writing and structuring. Like even if you don't do it control option being ever present is problem and if you do it is inconsequential, as I said it bad in any case. Usually you would opt in/out of those through story developing its self or choosing how to build relation with a character.


Main drive to mind control and such from what understand is corruption aspect of it and if you get it all without even knowing the characters it removes all the point. Game started, meet Ai get, blowjob from first scene, like why? What is this supposed to achieve? I would understand if this games plot is all about deviancy and hot/lewd situations but its just player as you put it that has no bearing on story.

I don't understand what game wants to achieve because there is always this dichotomy between what you are doing and what is happening.
 

Skeltom

Engaged Member
Oct 9, 2017
2,631
3,174
So ... I should focus more on the "dating sim"?
You don't even need to make it a dating sim but it would be nice if it wasn't just a "meet and fuck" game with zero build up. The lack of interactions that don't involve mind control is the biggest problem with this game in my opinion. It's the same thing with the story. You already know what's going to happen before the scene starts. Some conflict > mind control used > problem solved scene ends.
 
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HolyFish

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
154
423
Hi Dev, great game! I hope you can consider keeping lesbian optional if you have any plans on adding this in the future. Thank you!:)(y)
Alright.

You don't even need to make it a dating sim but it would be nice if it wasn't just a "meet and fuck" game with zero build up. The lack of interactions that don't involve mind control is the biggest problem with this game in my opinion. It's the same thing with the story. You already know what's going to happen before the scene starts. Some conflict > mind control used > problem solved scene ends.
I am trying to do build up. I plan for all the girls to require you to build a relationship with them first before they let you have sex with them. But adding quests for them takes time and since this is a mind control game, that has to come first.

If they let you have sex with them after meeting them and talking for a bit, that would still be "meet and fuck" with some dialogue sprinkled on top.

About interaction that doesn't involve sex, I'm also slowly adding that, for example, you can go play with Rin and Eri at the beach, I will add more but like I said before, since this is a mind control game, that has to come first.
 

YogSothoth1982

Devoted Member
Jun 26, 2018
8,485
11,664
I am trying to do build up. I plan for all the girls to require you to build a relationship with them first before they let you have sex with them. But adding quests for them takes time and since this is a mind control game, that has to come first.

If they let you have sex with them after meeting them and talking for a bit, that would still be "meet and fuck" with some dialogue sprinkled on top.

About interaction that doesn't involve sex, I'm also slowly adding that, for example, you can go play with Rin and Eri at the beach, I will add more but like I said before, since this is a mind control game, that has to come first.
Well, there's also the complaint that doing the sex scenes or not doing them doesn't seem to affect the main plot or the LIs at all.
 
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ZZ23

Newbie
Jan 21, 2019
80
125
So ... I should focus more on the "dating sim"?
ahm no, dating sims are more like games with story in the background while VNs are story focused.
If you make dating sim then your gameplay needs to rock if you make VN kinetic or branching then story needs to rock.

Notice what all good VNs have in common, GOOD story and if you manage to have good visuals on top that then you hit
the jackpot. Beauty in all of it is that story can be what ever you can imagine but it needs to be compelling and easy to read/play.

Lets take lustful sin for example. You start of as ghost that was released and has no memory which is great starting point now you need to make logical steps towards story you want to make to avoid plot holes and inconsistency. porn logic can be excused as long its still fun and make some rationale.

If our boy lust is fucking everything moment he meets then we need to see that reflected in his character and story. If he is not then his power is limited and he can't which would again make sense why he would need AI to save him. So you can see how two branches are forming.

So back to beginning he somehow gets released(you can make it mystery why AI felt drawn,tricket... to release lust so you don't have to show that lust has that kind of power) and not having memory of anything he takes human form. Seeing Ai there he gets scared and driven by his instincts starts to forcibly drain Ai. She reacts as you expect trying to run away but fails. Lust seeing her scared face gets disturbed releases her and starts crying while she runs away, he is bewilder by all of it after all.

Lust sits there and contemplates what is he and what is going on for hours when Ai returns(still very weak) because of expression that lust made(she barely gathered courage to do so). They talk and Ai goes grabs some cloths and takes him. She brings him home and explains to elder sister(We could use adult in story for how he is going to get integrated into society) what happened and they take him in. Over coming days Lust learns about life(feelings,worlbuilding) and Ai while getting weaker and feeling the need to drain when Ai decides to let him drain her(maybe draining has some side effect eh ?) while lust is reluctant considering what it did to Ai when they met.

That is it, very simple but effective prologue there was no need for choices or anything just compelling story with lots of emotions to make us feel with characters. No need to waste time on shitty animation/freeroam(maybe apartment roam if you want) that nobody cares about, we need quality dialog and scene to connect us with these characters and make sense out of everything because that is how we get invested into story. We empathize with Lusts and Ai's experience after release, he is lost and confused needing help and Ai is sweetheart willing to overcome her fear and go to extreme lengths to help Lust(something we all wish we are capable of), and that is perfect point to start building relationship. Two of them figuring everything out.

Mind control as show in game is just like time travel since MC becomes walking plot hole. Or if you want to go that route then you cash in on sadism and other ism, blackmail etc in some total power fantasy(removing memories and total control removes the point) which also needs to be written and executed well. Not just some click get scene and lets pretended nothing happened. You can't really make it lazy by doing it both side like you have done. If you want it both then down the line you can have some nasty/bastard/evil girls where you can fulfil that fantasy for part of fans and make it optional on top of that. World is your ouster after all.

just my few thoughts lol
 

HolyFish

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
154
423
Well, there's also the complaint that doing the sex scenes or not doing them doesn't seem to affect the main plot or the LIs at all.
It will once I add corruption to the game, the girl will get corrupted and it will change some of their interaction and their future quests.

Using mind control won't affect the main plot, just the girls. Firstly it's the whole point of mind control and changing their memories. Secondly, it will be ridiculous if using mind control punish the player, in a mind control game.

ahm no, dating sims are more like games with story in the background while VNs are story focused.
If you make dating sim then your gameplay needs to rock if you make VN kinetic or branching then story needs to rock.

Notice what all good VNs have in common, GOOD story and if you manage to have good visuals on top that then you hit
the jackpot. Beauty in all of it is that story can be what ever you can imagine but it needs to be compelling and easy to read/play.

Lets take lustful sin for example. You start of as ghost that was released and has no memory which is great starting point now you need to make logical steps towards story you want to make to avoid plot holes and inconsistency. porn logic can be excused as long its still fun and make some rationale.

If our boy lust is fucking everything moment he meets then we need to see that reflected in his character and story. If he is not then his power is limited and he can't which would again make sense why he would need AI to save him. So you can see how two branches are forming.

So back to beginning he somehow gets released(you can make it mystery why AI felt drawn,tricket... to release lust so you don't have to show that lust has that kind of power) and not having memory of anything he takes human form. Seeing Ai there he gets scared and driven by his instincts starts to forcibly drain Ai. She reacts as you expect trying to run away but fails. Lust seeing her scared face gets disturbed releases her and starts crying while she runs away, he is bewilder by all of it after all.

Lust sits there and contemplates what is he and what is going on for hours when Ai returns(still very weak) because of expression that lust made(she barely gathered courage to do so). They talk and Ai goes grabs some cloths and takes him. She brings him home and explains to elder sister(We could use adult in story for how he is going to get integrated into society) what happened and they take him in. Over coming days Lust learns about life(feelings,worlbuilding) and Ai while getting weaker and feeling the need to drain when Ai decides to let him drain her(maybe draining has some side effect eh ?) while lust is reluctant considering what it did to Ai when they met.

That is it, very simple but effective prologue there was no need for choices or anything just compelling story with lots of emotions to make us feel with characters. No need to waste time on shitty animation/freeroam(maybe apartment roam if you want) that nobody cares about, we need quality dialog and scene to connect us with these characters and make sense out of everything because that is how we get invested into story. We empathize with Lusts and Ai's experience after release, he is lost and confused needing help and Ai is sweetheart willing to overcome her fear and go to extreme lengths to help Lust(something we all wish we are capable of), and that is perfect point to start building relationship. Two of them figuring everything out.

Mind control as show in game is just like time travel since MC becomes walking plot hole. Or if you want to go that route then you cash in on sadism and other ism, blackmail etc in some total power fantasy(removing memories and total control removes the point) which also needs to be written and executed well. Not just some click get scene and lets pretended nothing happened. You can't really make it lazy by doing it both side like you have done. If you want it both then down the line you can have some nasty/bastard/evil girls where you can fulfil that fantasy for part of fans and make it optional on top of that. World is your ouster after all.

just my few thoughts lol
The two of them figuring everything out and have a beautiful love story will sadly be the side thing, the main plot will be focusing on Lust's lost memories.

Hmm, guess I am a bit greedy for playing it on both sides. Adding evil girls is an interesting idea, since this game already have supernatural elements, I think I will add some demon girl in the future.
 

ZZ23

Newbie
Jan 21, 2019
80
125
@HolyFish

I think you are missing the point what Blas is saying. Why would it punish player if its that type of game I don't understand what you mean by punish since with lusts power he can do anything. He can blackmail the shit out of them and even control them without using power. No need for adding corruption when you already have them unless you scale down his power.
Lust cannot act like oblivious to things he is doing and play out your story at the same time because it makes players
incapable of suspending their disbelief(breaks immersion)

I didn't mean they will have love story or something like that was just end of prologue as I said. You need to think about how you are going to use characters for your plot. In case of what I wrote I intended to use Ai as way to bridge the gap and make it all makes sense as to how things play out. he cannot lose memory and be capable of everything right away it is obvious that he could use mentor and friend(and cute Li) to get off the ground. So why not use that interesting relationship to connect player with Lust and Ai and round them out as characters that behave in semi realistic way. Him gaining powers and feeding on Ai is for example most obvious path to corruption, using power to remove memories is such a cop out in my opinion when you can do much much better.

It doesn't even have to be demon girls. in way I wrote Lust would care for Ai and if lets say, when he finally started going to school and saw some girls bully Ai(and why she was sad when coming back from school etc). You can make it choice how he solves the problem.

Notice how what I wrote, that things are always delivered with cohesion for player to digest. I purposely avoided total mind control because it only leads to things that you don't want your story to be about(and you corner your self for future writing). Moment you add that and allow to fuck them you need to address the other side which is complete nightmare to code/make/branch and work with what you already have in mind.
 

pnetoilk082

New Member
Oct 28, 2019
9
6
I agree with many people who commented on this game. I hope developers will listen more or less. Because I was once a player who played this game without mind control. So I tend to avoid it. 'Cause I know we're dirty with women It forgets like nothing happened // Maybe it's wrong that I like VN games, so I compared the developer's benchmark. Hope developers don't get angry.
 

HolyFish

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
154
423
@HolyFish

I think you are missing the point what Blas is saying. Why would it punish player if its that type of game I don't understand what you mean by punish since with lusts power he can do anything. He can blackmail the shit out of them and even control them without using power. No need for adding corruption when you already have them unless you scale down his power.
Lust cannot act like oblivious to things he is doing and play out your story at the same time because it makes players
incapable of suspending their disbelief(breaks immersion)

I didn't mean they will have love story or something like that was just end of prologue as I said. You need to think about how you are going to use characters for your plot. In case of what I wrote I intended to use Ai as way to bridge the gap and make it all makes sense as to how things play out. he cannot lose memory and be capable of everything right away it is obvious that he could use mentor and friend(and cute Li) to get off the ground. So why not use that interesting relationship to connect player with Lust and Ai and round them out as characters that behave in semi realistic way. Him gaining powers and feeding on Ai is for example most obvious path to corruption, using power to remove memories is such a cop out in my opinion when you can do much much better.

It doesn't even have to be demon girls. in way I wrote Lust would care for Ai and if lets say, when he finally started going to school and saw some girls bully Ai(and why she was sad when coming back from school etc). You can make it choice how he solves the problem.

Notice how what I wrote, that things are always delivered with cohesion for player to digest. I purposely avoided total mind control because it only leads to things that you don't want your story to be about(and you corner your self for future writing). Moment you add that and allow to fuck them you need to address the other side which is complete nightmare to code/make/branch and work with what you already have in mind.
I misunderstood what Blas said, sorry. I thought what he meant was using mind control would affect the story and lock the player out of an ending.

I think I saw a problem, Ai is the first one you meet so it's obvious you would want to build a relationship with her. But a bit more into the story the MC will meet Gloria and suddenly the "MC is still weak and can't do anything." as well as Ai's role as the helper gets pushed to the side for Gloria.

This is a mistake caused by my (very) bad pacing skill, but the damage is already done and the story has progressed too much after that to go back and fix it. I will keep this in mind and try to keep all characters relevant in the future.

The changing memories thing is just cheap excuse to use mind control and easy sex anyway, the main character building part will be through their quest.

Adding bullies into the games might be difficult since Ai has her groups of friends to protect her, I will need to think of another scenario for the MC to interfere.
 
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nutler

New Member
Apr 21, 2018
9
6
How to get Hana's doll mode? I completed shrine maiden quest, tried talking to Hana and still can only "control" her.

edit: Nevermind, found it. My dumb brain only tried talking to her at school, not at her house on weekend.
 

HolyFish

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
154
423
How to get Hana's doll mode? I completed shrine maiden quest, tried talking to Hana and still can only "control" her.
Gotta use it on Ai first, go talk to her in the afternoon.
Then you can use doll mode on Hana at her house
 

nutler

New Member
Apr 21, 2018
9
6
Gotta use it on Ai first, go talk to her in the afternoon.
Then you can use doll mode on Hana at her house
Thank you for your answer. Love your game so far. My only complain is that every girl seems to have been using the same sex scenes with every types of play (control, pet, doll) and places (Hana's at school and her house, Rin's in toilet and her house) with slightly differ in their expression and dialogues.
 
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HolyFish

Member
Game Developer
Sep 5, 2020
154
423
Thank you for your answer. Love your game so far. My only complain is that every girl seems to have been using the same sex scenes with every types of play (control, pet, doll) and places (Hana's at school and her house, Rin's in toilet and her house) with slightly differ in their expression and dialogues.
Thanks! those three types are standard so each girl has to get it haha, I will try something different for the side girl.
 
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