- Thread starter LazyBloodlines
- Start date
- Jan 18, 2020
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Honestly, i think you guys are making too big a deal out of this AI art situation. And personally, i'm lukewarm about it. I care about the writing more anyway, and art are there for easier immersion.
It is scuffed, it is a quick and easy way out to make content, and it isn't highly respected.
But cheap shit have been around for years, from the default overused 3D characters in games after games, to gifs being ripped straight out of hentai/real porn and placed over a wall of text. There will always be low effort products, and AI arts aren't some new pandemic that suddenly appeared.
It's ultimately up to the individual as who to support and give money to, and quality works will inevitably rise to the top just by it nature while the rest fade into obscurity.
I also understand the point of "AI art will ruin artist as a profession" by how easily it can churn out content. I understand the want of "game making/art drawing to be harder" for those with real passion. I understand wanting quality over accessibility. But that is an ideal world, not a real one. We can all see a real Italian pizza joint produce superior pizza, and yet the frozen pre-made stuff are still on the shelf to this day earning millions.
So really, your enemy is less the AI program or the one using it, and more the people who settle for these mass produced junk food.
Oh btw, most of the people here, myself included, are literally not paying for any of this and aren't supporting these good artists financially. So it's a little rich coming from this forum lol.
It is scuffed, it is a quick and easy way out to make content, and it isn't highly respected.
But cheap shit have been around for years, from the default overused 3D characters in games after games, to gifs being ripped straight out of hentai/real porn and placed over a wall of text. There will always be low effort products, and AI arts aren't some new pandemic that suddenly appeared.
It's ultimately up to the individual as who to support and give money to, and quality works will inevitably rise to the top just by it nature while the rest fade into obscurity.
I also understand the point of "AI art will ruin artist as a profession" by how easily it can churn out content. I understand the want of "game making/art drawing to be harder" for those with real passion. I understand wanting quality over accessibility. But that is an ideal world, not a real one. We can all see a real Italian pizza joint produce superior pizza, and yet the frozen pre-made stuff are still on the shelf to this day earning millions.
So really, your enemy is less the AI program or the one using it, and more the people who settle for these mass produced junk food.
Oh btw, most of the people here, myself included, are literally not paying for any of this and aren't supporting these good artists financially. So it's a little rich coming from this forum lol.
- Jun 18, 2019
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I was instantly able to tell this was AI art once I looked at the preview images...
- Sep 28, 2019
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but the thing is, ai art seems bland to me, which is normal given that is a blend of pre existing photos
- Sep 28, 2019
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thats the only bad thing about ai art games imo, its just lazy to not just fix a couple pixels so at least it doesnt look like they have a void in their eyes, or 4-6 fingers in heach hand.
backgrounds i can understand, even some more profesional vm games prefer to blury/dont put a lot of effort into them anyways
- Sep 21, 2021
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Well, you see, I probably wouldn't even voice my opinion, if not for one thing: it's an initial release. A proof of concept, in other words. If one starts shoveling shit like that from the very beginning instead of opening an act with a bang, then might as well bury it with that very filthy shovel.
Though, to be fair, a proper art takes actual time even with AI. Even "small fixes" can take hours, depending on how bad your OCD is. Doesn't justify the dev's laziness though.
Bad comparison there mate, authentic Italian pizzas are nothing but squares of dough and cheese with very little else.
- Sep 28, 2019
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well yes, but i think that the first impression makes or loses a game, not just here but in all of the industry, so having it be so obviously poorly done just doesnt sit right with me
btw if i dont really express myself well its bc im not a native speaker, im trying though
Wow, an insightful and intelligent post, someone who's mind has not been completely melted by coom. Rare.
- Jan 17, 2018
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the problem is that ai simply cannot work without stolen artwork
promoting ai art is the same thing as promoting tracing
the ethical model simply does not exist yet. means all of the ai art is made from the works taken without consent.
even if you call art assets you still take someone else work without their permission. it does not really matter if it's coom or dont have a soul.
moreover you really misinformed on situation when it comes to greed
the "wannabe artists that make art just for money" would simply use an ai to achieve the goal of earning money
in fact a lot of ai art made just for money and a lot of instantly gets posted as NFT
meanwhile actual people with the passion would feel broken and unmotivated seeing their work being stolen. art takes a lot of time and effort to master.
and you cant call artists greedy because literally all of the artists post their work for FREE. art is literally most copyright free medium you can take work and use it as an avatar repost it use it in youtube video do whatever and artists would not care. and at the end artist dont even earn that much. in fact some artists dont benefit form their art at at all and post it just so people could enjoy it.
ai art at the current time is taking work of actual honest hard working people and giving it to random greedy assholes and tech companies that think that everything in the internet belongs to them
is ai art is tool? definitely. but without artists works its literally useless. and the quality of the model 100% depends on the quality of trained material. also why its so hard to just tag an ai artwork. ai art hype is the same scam thing as nft/crypto hype
- Jan 17, 2018
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Legit, the first reply that doesn't say "AI art is bad because... bec- It just is ok??"
I understand what you mean. But there isn't a clear answer for this yet, there isn't a legal framework in place to determine if AI art is plagiarism or not. One can argue that people using the art of others as reference isn't plagiarism, thus AI using art as reference isn't either. It isn't tracing in the literal meaning.
Training a cnn is considered plagiarism? You say yes, somebody else says no, and there isn't any law to clear this up. It's a gray area. The AI isn't copying the art 1:1. It's mimicking what the human brain does when you tell it to think of a "red apple on top of a table". It just uses art to learn.
Obviously, as you can see, the ethical part doesn't mean something to me, otherwise I wouldn't be on a piracy forum. I believe in market competition and I disliked the monopoly of art where even mediocre artists charge premium for commissions. For example, before AI I had to waste hours on pinterest and artstation trying to find a fitting picture for a character in my ttrpgs, and now I can create whatever I want with detailed descriptions using AI in seconds. Why would I be against something as useful as this? It's also fun trying to create something in your free time without having to practice 10000 hours. Also yes people will use it for cash grabs like they always do, but It's still in infancy, it can be easily detected, and no sane person will pay for that. If AI becomes better in the future, why would I mind if people use it more? If the end result is good-looking, I won't mind.
Also, you said that most art is copyright free, so doesn't that allow people to use it to train their neural networks? They should add an AI tag too, I'm not against that. I'm against hypocrisy coming from people who pirate things, dont give a shit about copyright and then come and argue that "Using AI is theft".
excuse my rudeness and my english is bad and turning my thoughts into arguments take me hours so it will be quick and there will be a lot mistakes
ethics and morality and laws are the same thing. the statment "ethics are subjective" is false. morality is objective and morality is currently represented trough the laws. if laws do not represent morality correctly people usualy say that people using loopholes. also you said that piracy is unethical but it's also illegal. infact piracy probably more illegal then it's unethical.
comparing machine learning to human learning is completely incorrect. model is a 4gb file. it's just a different type of information. also there is not much difference between memories and skills that person have. comparing person memories to a code?
the scale. the scale of ai-art-theft for me right now feels really big. and it's probably why a lot of people pissed about ai art. the sites like fiverr that artist were using, do have ai thing on their front page even tho ai art is really like you said in the gray area. same with artsation. you do said that people would use it for cash grabs. but it's not like it's few guys it's like a lot of people. also idk whats wrong with the "tech bros" people seem like insane fanatics.
companies. the problem is that ai art model should have not been created. to train a ai model it takes like a supercomputer a lot of money and a lot of time making and organizing img-text-pairs. and models were trained on obvious copyright material. the thing is that stable ai, midjourney, dall-e are benefiting from that with a lot of money. yet to clarify. corporation stealing work from literal artists and making huge profits/get lot investments. it's like something from cyberpunk. and what it's feels like they also spreading propaganda. also companies could assume that it would hurt the artists but companies just dont give a damn. it's okay when some guy from 3rd world country pirating a movie. but when a company that makes millions does it it's just wtf.
also problem with laws is that companies have almost infinite money meanwhile artists usually pretty poor.
when if first saw an laion-2b database web-site i assumed that it's the work of few wikipedia-like dudes that scrolling trough internet to find pictures that no one would object to be used. but it's actually crawls trough entire internet including artsites like artsation twitter pixiv. its feels like it was made by a discord/reddit mod.
argument that artist deserve to be their work taken because they pirates is also problematic. because there a lot of people that do not pirate and there a lot of artist that careful with their references. and an ai takes it from everybody.
also if an artist does not care about copyright is usally benefits to copyright holder like if artist draws character from some anime/game people that see that art would be curious to watch source material. for example most people know overwatch because of its porn. meanwhile an ai erases all ownership and credit from the artist and drives that same artist from the market.
the ai art do create a problem for existing artists. like if an artist artstyle looks similar to what prompters usually like then when seeing artist work people would assume that it was made by an ai. and the thing is that an ai probably were trained on that person previous works. so it's like artist is being replaced by his own style that he invented. even if an artist dont make money from their work it's still a bs. what even the point for the artist to compete with an ai if the more artist puts the effort to improve the more he trains the an ai he competes with. and the really likely result is the artist would not post their work publicly like if you cant make any money from it and you dont get any credit then why bother with the stress from social media and not just post it in private discord for artists?
i don see much problem with people like you that generate artwork for personnel use because it's not really affecting artists that much.
people that just posting is idk but it's feels like it's also should not be. because it's like tracing. and problem with tracing is not plagiarism but the fact that tracer abusing someone's work. and also traced work also is not 1:1.
making money from gray-area-models or trying to pretend that you an artist should be a big nono.
also when i said "copyright free" i meant that artists give much more freedom to people with their works comparing to a music. and it feels just because of that freedom some people really go nuts right now.
"If AI becomes better in the future, why would I mind if people use it more? If the end result is good-looking, I won't mind."
i am not shure. for now it's really seems that it could do more harm then good. people will still draw with the pencil/digital pencil because it gives more control so it's still will be used to create something new. and since an ai gives less control. then the only thing it's good for is taking someone's work? also ai art is not an art it's just a pretty picture. when you do anything your mood could be analyzed even if you think you hide your emotions well. people can tell what person you are simply from a few text messages. the same thing with the art. but what do you get from analyzing ai art? also a lot of people do that subcotiously so people cant tell what's wrong but they can feel it. i theory even if person draws coom that can make sense too(?).
also in this particular situation f95z is a piracy fourm so why care about an ai art? idk it's just ai art gets you associated with all of the things written above.
not shure i addressed your arguments but anyway
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Some point in the future there will be massively produced porn game that, the visual is AI generated Art,storyline is generated by ChatGPT ,using royal free soundtrack as no one bored to hear, and the gameplay is just another spamming no brain mobile game you found on the CHplay which had like 20 ads per minute
- Jan 17, 2018
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I get it, but this is the thing with technology. When the industrial revolution happened, craftsmen like hatmakers, shoemakers etc complained that machines and factories stole their jobs. Then the computer revolution, data entry jobs where people who knew how to type on typewriters disappeared too. With netflix and torrents, all video clubs closed because they became irrelevant. You can't do something about this. AI is just another digital revolution. Maybe in the long future things like neuralink might appear that let everyone with implants draw like an artist, this might remove AI from the market. You never know what will happen.
This is just history repeating itself. I'm working in shipping and IMO for example doesn't have a legal framework for Autonomous Ships yet, they said until 2030 they will deliberate and make laws regarding that but for now nobody knows how to treat AI.
I agree with you on how huge companies unfairly profit from this, but nobody goes after these companies, it's so much easier to attack some random person who tried to make a game on f95 than it is to attack a huge company. Many people even defend huge companies, especially companies that make Gacha with arguments like "Well they are a company of course they care about profit" even when they make profits at the expense of consumers.
the problem is that artist/writer is not a shoemaker. artists are an inventors. when person begins to draw there is no way of telling that that guy would be a genius or just below average. moreover even the average artist once in a while can create something new. so an art is like evolving with people sharing ideas and progressing together. meanwhile an ai just mixes the data it reserves. also art in parallel trains your eye.
also you saying that it's like industrial revolution but it's more like when people just created copyright laws. because an ai cannot work without an input from the artist.
also my problem is that because of ai art, the progress in the visual industry could just stall forever. look how anime looked in the 90s and how it's looks now. if an ai art were created in 90's when prompting "anime girl" you would get 90's artstyle. if an ai art were created in the 90's could it be that artstyles that we have now would not be created?
also all of the art anime manga and movies before 2022 is human made and even there internet were oversaturated with the art. why oversaturate it more with an art that not even human made.
also ai promote laziness. the world you see is fake and the most effective way to train yourself to see world closer to reality is to draw. it's also probably a reason why neurolink would not work that way.
my problem with the technology that it would turn internet into disgusting pile of crappy content and turn away people that actually making something new.
also in could lead in more ways companies could abuse artist. look at what happened to mick gordon an bethesda the same could happened to any creator. with an ai like imagine bethesda would fire mick gordon and then train ai on his music. and mick gordon is not a shoemaker this guy created the whole subgenre of music.
also it's hard to go after the companies because they need to be sued by an actual artist that is in the model. and people are trying to go after those companies now
and random ai people do generate hype for those companies. and a lot of prompters do encourage stealing art. some prompters even call artists drawslaves and drawpigs. some people even go out to just harass the artists. so you dont see other side of the coin. and the important thing that artist do have a reason to be pissed because their art could got/already got stolen. on the other hand what is the reason for prompters to be pissed?
also ai and even just machine learning is very dangerous. people really need to bully their governments just in case.
still not shure if i am addressing your arguments directly but i hope its fine
sorry for being an ass/stupid
given some thought there should not be that much problem with ml-art
it's just it's really unfair to the artists now
consensus should be found
because if it not there could be a lot of blood
maybe i am crazy but
bully the artist - they going to nuke everybody
bully the prompters - there going to be blackout or dronepocalypse
dont bully - assholes going to win(?????) or some market-manipulating-fraud would get too much money and it could lead to increased corruption(?)
not shure if discussing Armageddon somehow could increase chances of it happening but i filliped the coin and it said i should 2 times. lel. 4 times
- Oct 28, 2017
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OP, if you're going to use AI art, I suggest using a specific set of tags to alter the medium or style of the piece to make it stand out. If you do it right people won't come in the thread to complain about AI art because the dumbasses won't be able to realize it's AI art.