Jan 31, 2020
441
357
I believe the 3.49 version was never released, so no one would have it sadly.
It was such a hot and promising game too! I for one am a very huge fan of peach and the super mario franchise as a whole and the game made me love them more. It's just too sad. Even that other company managed to get away copying windows 95 OS back then using the fair use argument. So why is that ivan seems to be suffering under a lot of stress, pressure and blame right now? Those corporate SoBs are really despicable.
 

moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
It was such a hot and promising game too! I for one am a very huge fan of peach and the super mario franchise as a whole and the game made me love them more. It's just too sad. Even that other company managed to get away copying windows 95 OS back then using the fair use argument. So why is that ivan seems to be suffering under a lot of stress, pressure and blame right now? Those corporate SoBs are really despicable.
Really it doesn't come down to whether he could successfully defend his work with the "Fair Use" argument. The cost required, financially, to do it would be staggering. That's even if Nintendo didn't decide to win before the court date with the size of their wallet. Nintendo could just have discovery and other pre-trial bits take enough time that Ivan couldn't hope to pay an attorney to manage all of it. Plus even if he won there's no guarantee that he'd be awarded his legal fees.


And really it was a hobby project. The cost in stress, which can turn into health costs, just wasn't worth it. It's shitty, but he made what's likely the best decision.
 

moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
Devil's Advocate argument here also. Nintendo sorta had to defend their IP also. I'm guessing the project got big enough social traction that it came across their proverbial desk. There's enough grey on whether the project would fall into fair use that not going after it could have been an issue for Nintendo. Not on the copyright angle, but on the trademark angle. Trademark is very much "Protect it or you'll lose it."

As for the four factors used to test fair use for copyright? Sad to say, but it'd likely have failed to pass that in court.

I lack the talent to make a game.. but if I did I'd stay far away from making anything adjacent to a Nintendo IP. Legally most parody games are in shakey grey areas of fair use.. and Nintendo has always been very proactive.
 

frostpaw

Member
Jan 11, 2018
253
414
We all can agree with "Nintendo is a sh1tty greedy company". Right??
Not more than any other company. Think about all the erotic art Disney is keeping, because they made their artists sign contracts, that all their work belongs to Disney.
 

downloaderbo

Member
Aug 18, 2017
214
270
Not more than any other company. Think about all the erotic art Disney is keeping, because they made their artists sign contracts, that all their work belongs to Disney.
If you are a Nintendo fanboy, you are in the wrong place, my friend.
We will not praise Nintendo for harassing fans just for developing free parody games for fellow players.
Nope, we are not robots.
 

frostpaw

Member
Jan 11, 2018
253
414
If you are a Nintendo fanboy, you are in the wrong place, my friend.
We will not praise Nintendo for harassing fans just for developing free parody games for fellow players.
Nope, we are not robots.
No, I'm no company's fanboy. If they (companies) get big, they nearly always turn out like EA, Ubisoft, Nestlé, Blizzard and so on and so on...
I just wanted to point out, that it is still their "right", since they legally own these products, to keep others from using them in any way. 'Cause these products mean money and they don't want to share that. So even if the parody is free, they could take damage on their brand, so no way they let things pass.
 
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moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
If you are a Nintendo fanboy, you are in the wrong place, my friend.
We will not praise Nintendo for harassing fans just for developing free parody games for fellow players.
Nope, we are not robots.
If we are being honest it was actually:

Nintendo protecting it's IP because a somewhat fringe free adult parody game was being crowd funded on patreon and came to their attention.

That's not being a fanboy, that's simply the raw truth without using any emotional language. Personally I think their IP wouldn't be damaged if they hadn't done it. But it's within their rights. I'd have loved for Ivan to finish the game.

When he announced he'd have to stop I was annoyed at Nintendo, but I didn't feel that they caused me to lose any money I'd supported with. I knew all along that it could be shut down any moment. I dunno if Ivan knew that and just hoped to slip under the radar or not.. I think if he did know he'd have done more of the "Legal distinct, but similar, Not-Mario is Missing" route. You can get amazingly close to the source material if you don't mind some tongue-in-cheek allusion work.

I did check his patreon to see if he's working on anything, sadly the last post he made was his announcement on the whole Nintendo mess.
 
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moze99

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Aug 26, 2021
61
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Wouldn't it be possible to finish the game silently?
Maybe? I know that technically you could grab the flash version and decompile it. I'm unsure how any of all that works. Hell, Ivan said he'd likely continue working on it, if only for his own enjoyment. I don't know if any of his uncompiled work was ever released back on LOK.

Decompiling an earlier flash version would get you the assets at least. But to do all of that silently? This may still be a 'small-ish' forum, but PUT was popular enough that it may not stay silent as news spreads. If the developer manages to stay anonymous that could lead to issues for Ivan or at least unwanted contacts from Nintendo Legal, but since we all know that the idea of internet anonymity is pretty much a farce.. the new dev would have to be aware they may share the same headaches as Ivan.

If someone wanted to bite that bullet I'd support them.. but I doubt it would end very well.
 

overlord5

Newbie
Sep 8, 2017
47
48
Maybe? I know that technically you could grab the flash version and decompile it. I'm unsure how any of all that works. Hell, Ivan said he'd likely continue working on it, if only for his own enjoyment. I don't know if any of his uncompiled work was ever released back on LOK.

Decompiling an earlier flash version would get you the assets at least. But to do all of that silently? This may still be a 'small-ish' forum, but PUT was popular enough that it may not stay silent as news spreads. If the developer manages to stay anonymous that could lead to issues for Ivan or at least unwanted contacts from Nintendo Legal, but since we all know that the idea of internet anonymity is pretty much a farce.. the new dev would have to be aware they may share the same headaches as Ivan.

If someone wanted to bite that bullet I'd support them.. but I doubt it would end very well.
after the dmca we discussed making a new game that was essentially a reskin, but using the unity engine, as flash had kinda died, don't think Ivan would mind if you extracted the assets and made something new with it
 

EmDotRand

Active Member
Sep 7, 2020
809
1,281
Maybe? I know that technically you could grab the flash version and decompile it. I'm unsure how any of all that works. Hell, Ivan said he'd likely continue working on it, if only for his own enjoyment. I don't know if any of his uncompiled work was ever released back on LOK.

Decompiling an earlier flash version would get you the assets at least. But to do all of that silently? This may still be a 'small-ish' forum, but PUT was popular enough that it may not stay silent as news spreads. If the developer manages to stay anonymous that could lead to issues for Ivan or at least unwanted contacts from Nintendo Legal, but since we all know that the idea of internet anonymity is pretty much a farce.. the new dev would have to be aware they may share the same headaches as Ivan.

If someone wanted to bite that bullet I'd support them.. but I doubt it would end very well.
Since it's not encrypted in any way, extracting the assets is quite easy. In fact, I extracted them using ffdec. This includes both png and svg versions of shapes, all the sounds, and several game scripts. Right now I'm contemplating how to rebuild the gallery in Godot since Unity doesn't always play nice with linux distros.

 

moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
Since it's not encrypted in any way, extracting the assets is quite easy. In fact, I extracted them using ffdec. This includes both png and svg versions of shapes, all the sounds, and several game scripts. Right now I'm contemplating how to rebuild the gallery in Godot since Unity doesn't always play nice with linux distros.

PUT Assets
While I understood the words, I'll just smile and nod. That's outside my skillset, I've always been a hardware/networking guy, and I don't really care to learn and instead marvel at what others can do.

Good luck!
 

moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
Careful friends, you are playing with fire there.
Pretty much my thoughts. My whole thing through the last how long on this thread was about, IF someone were to pick it up, they need to know what sort of dangerous waters their swimming in.
 

EmDotRand

Active Member
Sep 7, 2020
809
1,281
I'm not jumping in this completely blind. First I need to actually learn the engine which involves porting/making something slightly smaller than 40 thousand lines of code and 5000 image files. After that I need a hosting service that doesn't bow to copyright law or censorship. I can't host it myself because internet and electricity service is fickle in my region. Yourfilestore is slightly better than most places, but it requires at least one access every month or so. LBRY would be more promising if it didn't require the app for nsfw content.
 
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moze99

Newbie
Aug 26, 2021
61
36
I'm not jumping in this completely blind. First I need to actually learn the engine which involves porting/making something slightly smaller than 40 thousand lines of code and 5000 image files. After that I need a hosting service that doesn't bow to copyright law or censorship. I can't host it myself because internet and electricity service is fickle in my region. Yourfilestore is slightly better than most places, but it requires at least one access every month or so. LBRY would be more promising if it didn't require the app for nsfw content.
I honestly think that so long as you don't seek crowdfunding/patreon you are maybe 60% fine from Nintendo deciding you've got a pretty bum. I think that may have been the fatal flaw in the mix. Another thing is if you can "finish" it.. just release it and let the internet archive it themselves. You can count on people within the forum and others to keep it reuploaded. Distance yourself "No officer, that definitely doesn't ring any bells."
 
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glorbgon

Newbie
May 1, 2022
45
56
Devil's Advocate argument here also. Nintendo sorta had to defend their IP also. I'm guessing the project got big enough social traction that it came across their proverbial desk. There's enough grey on whether the project would fall into fair use that not going after it could have been an issue for Nintendo. Not on the copyright angle, but on the trademark angle. Trademark is very much "Protect it or you'll lose it."

As for the four factors used to test fair use for copyright? Sad to say, but it'd likely have failed to pass that in court.

I lack the talent to make a game.. but if I did I'd stay far away from making anything adjacent to a Nintendo IP. Legally most parody games are in shakey grey areas of fair use.. and Nintendo has always been very proactive.
I only found out about the game because of the DMCA. It was a really dumb move on their part. Had they not filed it, the game would've gone unnoticed by the general public, but by doing that they exposed it to the entire gaming sphere. Classic Streisand effect.
 

glorbgon

Newbie
May 1, 2022
45
56
I honestly think that so long as you don't seek crowdfunding/patreon you are maybe 60% fine from Nintendo deciding you've got a pretty bum. I think that may have been the fatal flaw in the mix. Another thing is if you can "finish" it.. just release it and let the internet archive it themselves. You can count on people within the forum and others to keep it reuploaded. Distance yourself "No officer, that definitely doesn't ring any bells."
I think that's pretty much how the AM2R guys kept updating their game, even after the DMCA.
 
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