HTML Masters of Raana [v0.8.4.7] [GrimDark]

[IZ2bSA80]

Melee does not need more advantage. Powerstrike could even use a tiny bit of nerf to be honest. Specifically,

• Option 1: the accuracy/hit of powerstrike should be lowered; or
• Option 2: powerstrike cannot be used consecutively (lore reason: your girl gets tired doing them in succession). <-my preferred one

I am at a point where my ex-arena champ regularly powerstrikes for 99-105 damage, maybe even more. After the opening shot, Ayden with coilgun does far less damage-per-turn than her. Maybe ranged weapons could use some damage buffs and buffs to how their armor piercing damage works.

• Option 1: One could make the coilgun the anti-armor specialist and plasma rifle an anti-natural armor specialist via the same mechanic Aesir religion and Malevolent trait has (coilgun does +10 vs heavier armor, plasma +15 against natural armor, +5/+10 on lighter armor).
• Option 2: Or just improving their damage overall but as a drawback, the lower your ranged skill, the higher the chance of not hitting the stronger the weapon is or even cause mishaps like the plasma user burning himself a tiny bit, causing 10 self inflicted damage and not firing the gun at the enemy for that turn because of the temporary shock of the burn. Since the plasma rifle has no recoil, mishaps could be its drawback.

The second option is my preferred one since it is more lore friendly than the option to give these guns bonus damage vs an armor type, but it could also prove to be more complicated.

Well a few things about combat might be changed with v8.31, which might result in melee being a little bit less "powerful" compared to ranged - so I will spare my comment on that until v8.31 goes public.

And then about nighttime combat and debuffs for ranged, they might not do that much (if this only decreases hit chance directly and the ranged skill is ie. 150, especially if this "debuff" would be applied after giving a damage boost, because of "high skill"), and I am also not seeing a reason, why during nighttime or other bad weather conditions (which affects sight) melee should not also get penalized (unless you are a blind martial artist, who senses where the enemy is and what the enemy is about to do).

ps. While there were many interesting ideas in the suggestions, I think non of them will be implemented in the way he did suggest (that is if they are implemented at all) - eventhough in the long run, there should be ie. "negative" events for Fort Sera (but siege events might be counterproductive¹ and in some cases even be unbeliebable, ie. an army size, which is outnumbered maybe 10:1, laying siege to Fort Sera or a "Great House", whose power value is only a tenth or lower of the power value of Fort Sera, laying siege to Fort Sera or a foreign army, which is not stationed in Ikanoos City and would have to march through Ikaanos City to reach the Outer Marston Swamps to lay siege to Fort Sera, marching through Ikaanos City and a high control Ikaanos republic not caring about such an army waltzing through the city, eventhough that would undermine their authority - in my game the only believeable sieging force, would be the whole army of Ikaanos, if they would have still a compareable manpower to game start, otherwise maybe the whole Davidian army might suffice, but they might be far away, or about 30% of the whole bandit faction, who might not want an all out war with Fort Sera and who might also be very unwilling, if both factions are controlled by the mc/pc).

¹) Some player may try to milk such events to boost the number of soldiers of Fort Sera even higher (ie. about 1/4 to 1/5 of the sieging army ending up as new recruits of Fort Sera).

Hmm, what if we used the effect of a certain paragon's damage boost here?
It'd limit the advantages/disadvantages given to the first strike for both sides, kinda like the MC doing an ambush rather than being the one ambushed.

 

[HereandNow2022]

How much combat experience in MoR do you actually have? And how familiar are you with the current combat mechanics?

I can also tell you this, for all fights except the fights with two certain Charuks (in the location north of Hamah Bay), the level 6 common bounty missions (and legendary common bounty missions) and the fight against the Black Scorpion (himself, not the "punks" in the other black scorpion fights), I normally use Bud, Enya, Loren and Aiko as followers, where everyone has only bare fists and a rifle (except Bud, who is allowed to use expensive ammo and a plasma rifle) and wears expensive Hulc armor. For the Charuk fights the rifles get replaced by automatic rifles and Bud, who is usually in the first follower slot, gets moved to the last follower slot. And I expect to win every and all fights easily (except for the level 6 and legendary common bounty missions and the Black Scorpion fight) with that setup (and the changes for the Charuk fights), in fact if I let Enya, Loren or Aiko shoot with a rifle from closed range they will do less damage than they would do, if they attacked with bare fists (but they already have 150 melee, but can still improve somewhat in ranged, so I let them shoot with the rifle¹). Only for the legendary common bounty missions and maybe 5 men level 6 common bounties this setup might be a little on the weak side (for the black scorpion fight for once giving the girls some melee weapons would probably be enough). As to the legendary bounty missions (probably currently the hardest combat encounters, except maybe the last fights to become really arena champion), I am quiet sure of a layout - which involves the usage of grenade launchers (including exploiting the badass calculations) and Aydens first shot - to eliminate the (only) enemy with the cybercannon in the first round (with a very high probability) and then win the fight, with the MC/PC staying alive and probably only Ayden going down - oh and Ayden would use his ranged weapon only in the first round and also most other followers would probably only use the grenade launcher in the first round (and maybe also second and third). Otherwise they would only use armor piercing melee weapons. Oh, and the mc/pc would also try to knock out the enemy at the second position (after the other enemies are down), ie. making sure that that enemy stays alive (and not gets damaged too much), as the other enemies are more dangerous and probably harder to knock out (via bare fists).

And then to your question, a lot can be done (which is for the game developer to decide, I am just someone who often puts his 2Cent where they might not belong ;-) ), but I would like to see the combat mechanics of v8.31 before I am commenting further on it.

ps. The above post totally disregards the high-tier arena fights (ie. the above content only covers the normal unsanctioned fights without a paying audience).

¹) And using the ranged weapons lowers the probability of "lucky" captures (which I usually consider unlucky captures, as they usually prevent me to capture the enemy I want to capture).

What difficulty is this based on?

 

[IZ2bSA80]

How much combat experience in MoR do you actually have? And how familiar are you with the current combat mechanics?

I can also tell you this, for all fights except the fights with two certain Charuks (in the location north of Hamah Bay), the level 6 common bounty missions (and legendary common bounty missions) and the fight against the Black Scorpion (himself, not the "punks" in the other black scorpion fights), I normally use Bud, Enya, Loren and Aiko as followers, where everyone has only bare fists and a rifle (except Bud, who is allowed to use expensive ammo and a plasma rifle) and wears expensive Hulc armor. For the Charuk fights the rifles get replaced by automatic rifles and Bud, who is usually in the first follower slot, gets moved to the last follower slot. And I expect to win every and all fights easily (except for the level 6 and legendary common bounty missions and the Black Scorpion fight) with that setup (and the changes for the Charuk fights), in fact if I let Enya, Loren or Aiko shoot with a rifle from closed range they will do less damage than they would do, if they attacked with bare fists (but they already have 150 melee, but can still improve somewhat in ranged, so I let them shoot with the rifle¹). Only for the legendary common bounty missions and maybe 5 men level 6 common bounties this setup might be a little on the weak side (for the black scorpion fight for once giving the girls some melee weapons would probably be enough). As to the legendary bounty missions (probably currently the hardest combat encounters, except maybe the last fights to become really arena champion), I am quiet sure of a layout - which involves the usage of grenade launchers (including exploiting the badass calculations) and Aydens first shot - to eliminate the (only) enemy with the cybercannon in the first round (with a very high probability) and then win the fight, with the MC/PC staying alive and probably only Ayden going down - oh and Ayden would use his ranged weapon only in the first round and also most other followers would probably only use the grenade launcher in the first round (and maybe also second and third). Otherwise they would only use armor piercing melee weapons. Oh, and the mc/pc would also try to knock out the enemy at the second position (after the other enemies are down), ie. making sure that that enemy stays alive (and not gets damaged too much), as the other enemies are more dangerous and probably harder to knock out (via bare fists).

And then to your question, a lot can be done (which is for the game developer to decide, I am just someone who often puts his 2Cent where they might not belong ;-) ), but I would like to see the combat mechanics of v8.31 before I am commenting further on it.

ps. The above post totally disregards the high-tier arena fights (ie. the above content only covers the normal unsanctioned fights without a paying audience).

EDIT: How could I forgot Goran-Ikko (or how its name is), for him/her the combat setup would also not be enough.

¹) And using the ranged weapons lowers the probability of "lucky" captures (which I usually consider unlucky captures, as they usually prevent me to capture the enemy I want to capture).

I started playing with the 8.3h release and yeah I'm not really big on combat, Kahill's mother thoroughly wrecked me so many times.
Business, management and crafting is what I'm more into. It's probably why I often seek alternatives to combat, the only reason I know what reward we get after the tough fights is because I cheated my way through to see what's worth it or not.
Raikan's village is the one true loss here imo, no way around to get the village...

 

[Gunner Rey]

How much combat experience in MoR do you actually have? And how familiar are you with the current combat mechanics?

I can also tell you this, for all fights except the fights with two certain Charuks (in the location north of Hamah Bay), the level 6 common bounty missions (and legendary common bounty missions) and the fight against the Black Scorpion (himself, not the "punks" in the other black scorpion fights), I normally use Bud, Enya, Loren and Aiko as followers, where everyone has only bare fists and a rifle (except Bud, who is allowed to use expensive ammo and a plasma rifle) and wears expensive Hulc armor. For the Charuk fights the rifles get replaced by automatic rifles and Bud, who is usually in the first follower slot, gets moved to the last follower slot. And I expect to win every and all fights easily (except for the level 6 and legendary common bounty missions and the Black Scorpion fight) with that setup (and the changes for the Charuk fights), in fact if I let Enya, Loren or Aiko shoot with a rifle from closed range they will do less damage than they would do, if they attacked with bare fists (but they already have 150 melee, but can still improve somewhat in ranged, so I let them shoot with the rifle¹). Only for the legendary common bounty missions and maybe 5 men level 6 common bounties this setup might be a little on the weak side (for the black scorpion fight for once giving the girls some melee weapons would probably be enough). As to the legendary bounty missions (probably currently the hardest combat encounters, except maybe the last fights to become really arena champion), I am quiet sure of a layout - which involves the usage of grenade launchers (including exploiting the badass calculations) and Aydens first shot - to eliminate the (only) enemy with the cybercannon in the first round (with a very high probability) and then win the fight, with the MC/PC staying alive and probably only Ayden going down - oh and Ayden would use his ranged weapon only in the first round and also most other followers would probably only use the grenade launcher in the first round (and maybe also second and third). Otherwise they would only use armor piercing melee weapons. Oh, and the mc/pc would also try to knock out the enemy at the second position (after the other enemies are down), ie. making sure that that enemy stays alive (and not gets damaged too much), as the other enemies are more dangerous and probably harder to knock out (via bare fists).

And then to your question, a lot can be done (which is for the game developer to decide, I am just someone who often puts his 2Cent where they might not belong ;-) ), but I would like to see the combat mechanics of v8.31 before I am commenting further on it.

ps. The above post totally disregards the high-tier arena fights (ie. the above content only covers the normal unsanctioned fights without a paying audience).

EDIT: How could I forgot Goran-Ikko (or how its name is), for him/her the combat setup would also not be enough.

¹) And using the ranged weapons lowers the probability of "lucky" captures (which I usually consider unlucky captures, as they usually prevent me to capture the enemy I want to capture).

Interesting assessment, I'm just curious why you don't use whipsticks instead of bare hands. They do a little more damage and are actually better for taking captives.

 

[khumak]

ps. The wiki was and is wrong about the base capture chance (and thus total capture chance). The base capture chance is 11% (in v8.3h) and only on a diceroll of 1 (diceroll 1 to 100 (inclusive)) a whipstick fails a capture of a capturable enemy (ergo 99% capture chance) and fists still give a 96% capture chance (ie. only dicerolls of 1 to 4 (inclusive) will fail), this was the case in v8.23 and is still the case in v8.3h. But maybe the wiki will be correct for v8.31, if the five occurances of "_slavechance gte 90" in the html-code are changed (or already have been changed in the current alpha versions of v8.31).

¹) I guess he often is.

Good reason to take this, just to be sure...

 

[harem.king]

I start over from the beginning on EVERY update.

that seems quite crazy to me.
I import saves

 

[khumak]

Oh, I did take it - but then the mc/pc so far let his followers do the capturing.

ps. My post has a little math error, as 1+89 is 90 and thus the whipstick will always capture (currently).

I mostly take it to improve MC's chance to capture with a greatsword during tough fights. Usually I end up eventually giving a greatsword to all my mercs as well as MC which means I have a decent chance to capture with high damage greatsword attacks. So I only need to switch MC to a whip if I get to the last enemy and haven't captured anyone yet. I tend to insist on capturing at least 1 if not 2 enemies in every fight though depending on whether there are any females or not. This includes tier 6 and 7 bounties. It can get painful trying to capture that last plasma wielding enemy with a whip if you get unlucky.

 

[khumak]

Interesting. So far I have not done the level 7 bounties (for whatever reason they never show up ;-), might have to do with the fact, that I have so far not recruited the high tier mercs and my normal followers have just to few maximum health to have realistic chances). I would probably go with a setup of grenade launcher as ranged weapons for the followers (who would need the ammo pack trait, as the mc/pc would refuse to pay for the expensive ammo), except maybe Ayden in the last follower slot (as his ability should do more damage as the maximum damage from a greatsword at least in the first round and if a cybercannon wielder goes down in the first round or there is no cybercannon wielder in the group, the fight is a whole lot easier), and possibly Greatswords (allthough Power Katanas might also be enough) - eventhough it is easier to manage the badass values, if the followers would use a crossbow (instead of a grenade launcher) as the crossbow is a ranged weapon which decreases the badass value (for followers).
Oh and all followers would of course start in the melee position. First round the first to third follower would be targeting the enemy above the enemy with the cybercannon (or if there are two, targeting the fourth enemy) and Ayden then shooting on the cybercannon wielder (or the fifth enemy, if there are two cybercannons). The mc/pc would probably also shoot on the cybercannon wielder (or fifth enemy, if there are two cybercannons). The next round would then probably depend on how much health the enemies have left (and whether one enemy was downed in the first round).

And yes I also usually insist on capturing at least on enemy (or two, if females are present).

Tier 7s start showing up once you've completed 150 bounties. I've been pretty busy lately so I haven't had time to play the last few versions, but the last time I tried tier 7s are very questionable unless you save scum. I have not found a reliable way to influence who the enemy targets like I could in previous versions. Without that option it's not possible to avoid stat losses for MC if he gets targetted. Nobody is tough enough to solo tank a tier 7 no matter how strong your team is.

My usual method is to start with the most dangerous enemy I can guarantee a kill on in 1 round and save the boss for last since he always takes at least 2 or 3 rounds to kill. In some previous versions it was actually possible to reliably manipulate who the enemy was targetting via weapon selection so I could consistently beat tier 7 bounties without ever losing anyone. If you can't do that then you're going to lose at least 2 or 3 people per fight usually and frequently that's going to include MC himself. As long as you start everyone in close position, greatswords outdamage everything else with the possible exception of Ayden's first shot with his coil gun. I have not found any reason to use grenade launchers unless they've been recently upgraded.

The last time I was able to manipulate the enemy's target it was by training up all of my mercs to identical combat stats so the enemy would randomly target my mercs and then switch MC's weapon to a stronger or weaker weapon depending on whether I wanted MC to take a turn as tank. In the latest version, weapon doesn't seem to affect the enemy target anymore. The choice seems dominated by stats and armor. So I find myself giving MC the best armor so he won't get targetted as the main tank and giving all of my mercs armor 1 stage weaker than MC. Unfortunately if you do that with a tier 7 bounty you're going to take massive losses, maybe even a full party wipe.

Even using my armor trick I sometimes run into advanced tactics fights where MC gets targetted exclusively unless one of my mercs is completely naked.

 

[caju]

that seems quite crazy to me.
I import saves

It is just a different playstyle.
I know every quest an pretty much every enemy. I have a built in wiki in my head.
I know exactly what I want to accomplish and the fastest way to get there from day 1.
I can make due with base weapons and armor.
Rarely do I even bother with herc armor because I dont find it necessary.

*Side note* I have also never pimped out a girl and only visited the arena twice. Never let anyone other than me fight there.

 

[khumak]

The current make-up for tier 7 includes:
1. Enemy: Plasma rifle (and duraplate or hulc)
2. Enemy: Sword, Rifle or Assault Rifle - and same armor as the enemy would have in the 4-6 tier common bounty, sword will target random enemy (eventhough it is advanced tactics), as 4-7 use here the same enemy data. Meaning enemy no. 2 is the easiest of them all.
3. Enemy: Plasma rifle (and duraplate or hulc).
4. Enemy: Either Plasma Rifle or Cybercannon (and duraplate or hulc armor).
5. Enemy (if there is one): Plasma Rifle or Cybercannon (if I remember the code lines correctly the "Ultimate Hulk" or Uber Hulk will have the highest health of the enemies).

There are usually for the enemies a few different flavors with more or with less max health, if hulc armor is worn (or only duraplate) depends on a certain variable $hulcloot (if I remember correctly). Also if I remember correctly the tier 7 bounties can have 4 or 5 enemies - ie. it is not guaranteed that the bounty will have 5 enemies (but then this is not inferable from the bounty data, as with at least 2 additional crew, the bounty data in the town hall will say "yes" concerning additional crew, if the bounty is only the target or 1 additional crew member, the town hall would say "unknown" concerning additional crew - also the bounty sum will sadly in this case - that is if I remember correctly - give no hint, if there are 4 or 5 enemies).

From past experience with tier 7 bounties I don't think there is ever just the boss. There is always either 5 enemies or in rare cases a lone abomination. The abomination is obviously trivially easy and does not drop plasmas but you do get the same bounty.

The reason for grenade launcher is that the splash damage (which is higher for the enemy below the target) is not reduced by any armor and some of the damage will depend only on whether the splashed enemy still has a certain amount of health left. I hope with that to eliminate the cybercannon guy (if there is only one) in the first round, but so far this is just theory.

Maybe damage was increased on the grenade launcher since I last tried it. The last time I tried it, the total damage from the grenade launcher including splash damage just wasn't enough to be worth it, especially since any round where you don't get at least 1 kill is unacceptable IMO except when you're going for the boss himself. That means the single target damage alone would need to be equivalent to a plasma or greatsword and the splash damage would just be a bonus on top of that. Otherwise you end up in a situation where you may have done more total damage in a round with the grenade launcher but you didn't actually kill anyone. Which means you have to absorb an extra plasma or cyber cannon hit compared to using plasma or greatsword which is definitely not a good thing.

Concerning badass:
Melee+Ranged is summed up, also maxhealth is added (eventhough for the mc it is capped at 150, for the followers that value is not capped). The badass value is also adjusted (for the mc) by the active weapon: None: -50; Knife,Staff:-25; Plasma:+100; Coilgun:+70; Automatic Rifle, Rifle50, Greatsword, Grenade Launcher: +50.

For the followers the badass is adjusted by melee weapon and ranged weapon, where:
Crossbow: -30; Pistol: -10; Automatic Rifle, Rifle50:+50; Plasma Rifle, Grenade Launcher:+90; Coilgun:+70 and Greatsword:+50.

If the worn armor is not "WEGA" (which probably is the armor of Ayden), Duraplate or HULC the badass value is increased by 100 (if the badass value is already above 200).

Interesting. Hadn't seen numbers for this before. I'll have to try some different combinations again and see if I can guarantee that MC does not tank by only giving mercs 1 weapon. Unfortunately if this is the way it works then that pretty much puts Ayden on the bench because greatsword is better than his coil gun in a long fight. In some of my previous testing MC was targetted exclusively even when he's using fists and all my mercs have both plasma and greatsword. The only time I never saw that happen is if at least 1 of my mercs was not wearing any armor at all. But you can't survive tier 7 bounties doing that.

The armor trick does generally work pretty well prior to tier 7 bounties though. I give MC duraplate and I give weave to all my mercs until I can afford Hulk. Then MC gets Hulk and all my mercs get duraplate. I only wear the hulk for the bounties and switch MC back to duraplate for all other fights to avoid wear and tear on the Hulk armor. Tier 7 bounties are doable that way once MC has Hulk but if none of your mercs have Hulk you're going to lose a lot of mercs and if they do have Hulk then MC is going to take a lot of stat losses.

 

[HereandNow2022]

Oh, I did take it - but then the mc/pc so far let his followers do the capturing.

ps. My post has a little math error, as 1+89 is 90 and thus the whipstick will always capture (currently).

In the latest tier 4 I've crit hit with cane and dropped people I was trying to capture, FWIW.

 

[khumak]

In the latest tier 4 I've crit hit with cane and dropped people I was trying to capture, FWIW.

There are some people who are scripted to not be capturable like the boss of bounties and certain other random fights around town. I don't think I have ever failed to capture someone who it's possible to capture with a cane whip. For me it's a 100% chance unless the target is not possible to capture by any means. The damage doesn't matter. I've captured people with an 80 damage cane whip crit.

 

[WinkJeck]

how i edit NPC stat in save editor

 

[devil999LEXX]

how i edit NPC stat in save editor

link to save editor ?

 

[WinkJeck]

link to save editor ?

before new rework i can edit a stat now they cant no matter how i look and try

 

[LizJ]

link to save editor ?

The one referenced in this thread is

You must be registered to see the links

.

 

[JaxMan]

There are some people who are scripted to not be capturable like the boss of bounties and certain other random fights around town. I don't think I have ever failed to capture someone who it's possible to capture with a cane whip. For me it's a 100% chance unless the target is not possible to capture by any means. The damage doesn't matter. I've captured people with an 80 damage cane whip crit.

Did Grim change it to automatic? In previous versions, I've killed enemies that I was trying to capture with the cane whip.

 

[khumak]

Did Grim change it to automatic? In previous versions, I've killed enemies that I was trying to capture with the cane whip.

In every version I've played so far the cane whip is either a 0% chance to capture or a 100% chance depending on whether the enemy is scripted to be uncaptureable or not. There are some you can't capture no matter what. The boss/primary target in a bounty for instance is impossible to capture no matter what you do. But everyone else in a bounty fight is capture able. So if you use a whip on the boss you will fail 100% of the time. There are some enemies that spawn around town that are also not capture able as well as certain quest enemies. I don't have a list of which ones are like that.

 

[HereandNow2022]

In every version I've played so far the cane whip is either a 0% chance to capture or a 100% chance depending on whether the enemy is scripted to be uncaptureable or not. There are some you can't capture no matter what. The boss/primary target in a bounty for instance is impossible to capture no matter what you do. But everyone else in a bounty fight is capture able. So if you use a whip on the boss you will fail 100% of the time. There are some enemies that spawn around town that are also not capture able as well as certain quest enemies. I don't have a list of which ones are like that.

Ya, then you were lucky. I'll try on the tier 4 version today, but I've definitely killed with cane when trying to capture, then reloaded save before combat and captured the same slave on multiple previous versions.

 

[Seamonkey]

From the wiki on the slave hunters page.

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Incapacitation chance

• Base: 5%
• Fists: +80%
• Whipping cane: +85%
• Combat staff: +70%
• Sledgehammer: +35%
• Knife/sword: +15%
• Great sword: +15%
• Firearms: -3%
• Heavy firearms: -4%

So, if we take this at face value, using a whipping cane gives you a 90% chance of incapacitating an enemy taken to zero health by it. (Barring the immunity conferred to some enemies like bounty targets)
So this would explain why some people are getting enemies killed on hit, there is a 10% chance of it killing even when using the whipping cane.

So why the disparity in experience then?
Well if we remember the Manhunter trait, which confers another +15% chance to incapacitate then this takes the final total up to 105% chance to incapacitate, so it may well be that the people who are reporting certain captures opted to take the trait while those who occasionally have a capturable character die on them did not, falling victim to the 10% chance of death they would be subject to without the trait.

Obviously there may be something I am missing here, but I think it explains things?