tooldev

Active Member
Feb 9, 2018
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And what about starting options? Many of the options available when you create your character give you a massive advantage over people who don't pick that option. Does that mean I'm cheating if I pick any beneficial options? At some point the distinction just becomes meaningless. For a single player game the only wrong way to play is if you're not having fun. A pretty significant percentage of MOR players make character creation choices specifically designed to eliminate the grind for 1 or 2 particular stats that they don't find it enjoyable to grind out (one of the most common being intelligence).
No you dont cheat since it is an option already provided by the game and the mechanics are build to react appropriately as with a different start option. I dont care about the fun part, as that is highly subjective which is why i made my basis for the question clear by defining it.
Simple example: If I pour myself a 100 million via sugarcube since it isnt any of the start options, I cheat myself to it. There is no judging, but an important technical difference here.
 

Clemency

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2024
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So I've been curious with everyone talking about Aria's questline. It seems like it should be very involved and rewarding, with a bunch of unique slaves and books, but it states in her backstory that her goal in becoming chancellor is to end slavery and bring equality to Ikkaros. How does that not just end with the dissolution of your entire household?
Her effect on the Liberty stat of Ikaanos, the only stat affecting the institution of slavery, is tied to her corruption stat. If she has very low corruption, she can trigger Liberty raising events but very very rarely to be honest to matter. And if she has around 50+ corruption, she basically never triggers that.

Do not lower her Willpower like the angry guy suggested. A low willpower Aria tend to constantly fails her events.
 

tsap

Member
Apr 19, 2019
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Do not lower her Willpower like the angry guy suggested. A low willpower Aria tend to constantly fails her events.
Yeah. The tendency to fail is definitely there when Aria's willpower is low, but that doesn't mean that the opposite tendency to win would have totally vanished. My statistical sampling is not large enough to make valid statements, but so far the four times I've had very weak willed Aria as chancellor point to a kind of balance. There ARE scandals (senate questions Aria's weak mind and her abilities once and again), but she still has her adversaries publicly exterminated, bans corrupted literature, allows new villages to be established (prosperity rises) starts new school for kids and so on.
In my game she still has her wits, that little weasel - excuse me, tactical genius - Ezra Waylen as marshal and my MC:s full support. She isn't forsaken and even with her quite expected fails she is faring (IMO) better than the old monster before her.
 

Crimson Fire

Member
Mar 12, 2022
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Again - i dont care how one plays the game. My question has nothing to do with any individuals choice. I am not sure why you are so sensitive and feel attacked personally, but you do you. You make assumptions instead of reading obviously, since my postings here have always been critical of some stuff and my approach has always be to condemn playing it a certain way only. It is why I wrote that guide for noobs to begin with.

I am not stepping away from a verbal fight if that is what you are after, but maybe choose a topic that you can win.
So let me get this straight... You so don't care about people cheating you started the topic questioning the quality of the game. Made the distinction between mods and cheats. Insist twice now that you don't care! While saying and i quote, "..my approach has always be to condemn playing it a certain way..." Yeah people who don't care ALWAYS take a stance and condemn playing a game a "certain way." You actually have to care enough to waste time condemning people. but the kicker for me is the "I am not stepping away from a verbal fight..." 'i don't care but i will fight you over this topic and condemn people because you know I don't care.' utterly convincing!

Well after your master oratory skills have been employed I am beyond convinced you don't care. I mean you said so, it must be true. right? :rolleyes:
 
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tooldev

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So let me get this straight... You so don't care about people cheating you started the topic questioning the quality of the game. Made the distinction between mods and cheats. Insist twice now that you don't care! While saying and i quote, "..my approach has always be to condemn playing it a certain way..." Yeah people who don't care ALWAYS take a stance and condemn playing a game a "certain way." You actually have to care enough to waste time condemning people. but the kicker for me is the "I am not stepping away from a verbal fight..." 'i don't care but i will fight you over this topic and condemn people because you know I don't care.' utterly convincing!

Well after your master oratory skills have been employed I am beyond convinced you don't care. I mean you said so, it must be true. right? :rolleyes:
My job is not to change your 'believe' but to make my point about my own argument.

I started writing the guide since the game itself is/was a mess in terms of properly informing the player about certain things. This is the only part I care about since it influences which information is needed in the guide to help a player. A guide is as neutral as possible, different to a walkthrough that aims to lead a player via specific steps to a goal. So in light of that definition I cannot care about how any player plays the game in the end but I have to care about what is needed to actually achieve certain things in-game. If those are almost impossible to achieve without cheating it is relevant for my guide.
 
Apr 4, 2023
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For a multiplayer game I could see a distinction but not for a single player game. When I mod a game it's to make it more fun.
I have a friend who feels that doing anything the dev didn't want you to do, even if it is possible in an older version of the game and the dev just didn't notice it, is wrong.

To me, it is always right to make your play experience be the way you want it to be. The dev makes the foundation. I am the one who has to experience playing.

"Cheating" is only a real thing if you are violating someone else. I am not violating anyone by having my fun.

Edit for example: All of my NPCs in MoR are cleared of crimes and free. Probably that isn't what most people would think is the normal way to play, but it is what I want. To make that reasonable, I modified the game to make it not a pain in the ass to do my way. I also have never sold anyone or had anyone be a prostitute or had anyone be a floor crawler. And I got rid of the starting male mercenaries ASAP and don't do business with criminals and assholes unless the game forces it. This is what is fun for me for MoR (I don't play all games this way). Other people can do what they want.
 
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khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
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I have a friend who feels that doing anything the dev didn't want you to do, even if it is possible in an older version of the game and the dev just didn't notice it, is wrong.

To me, it is always right to make your play experience be the way you want it to be. The dev makes the foundation. I am the one who has to experience playing.

"Cheating" is only a real thing if you are violating someone else. I am not violating anyone by having my fun.

Edit for example: All of my NPCs in MoR are cleared of crimes and free. Probably that isn't what most people would think is the normal way to play, but it is what I want. To make that reasonable, I modified the game to make it not a pain in the ass to do my way. I also have never sold anyone or had anyone be a prostitute or had anyone be a floor crawler. And I got rid of the starting male mercenaries ASAP and don't do business with criminals and assholes unless the game forces it. This is what is fun for me for MoR (I don't play all games this way). Other people can do what they want.
Yeah in the case of MOR, Grim considers the "intended" start to be Rise from the Ashes with Ironman, Grimdark level, and Dying World active. I have played games starting from that point but the grind and the lack of useability of the unique characters for certain aspects of the game under those settings is not fun to me. I've also played games that add both pacifist and stim allergy to the above mix to make it even harder. So while I do pretty much always play with Grimdark and Dying World active, I don't play with Ironman enabled, and I usually don't do a Rise from the Ashes start either. I know plenty of people who find the low starting prosperity from Dying World to be annoying and thus don't use that option.

So by some people's recent posts on the subject, the vast majority of players are "cheating" just by using an enhanced start and not enabling Ironman. But again, for a single player game cheating doesn't really have any meaning. Whatever is fun for you is fine unless it degrades someone else's experience. But my game doesn't affect your game so there's literally no way for me to cheat that would have any effect on someone else.

Another pet peeve of mine is any time I pick up a unique character and they have zero traits. To me that is unacceptable so I'm going to save edit and give them at least 1 or 2 traits just so they feel more unique. It doesn't even have to be a useful one. I might give them something like size queen and daddy issues despite my character usually being 18 (so Daddy Issues provides no benefit).
 

OneMoreZoner

Newbie
May 23, 2022
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Any way i can become emperor of Ikaanos
The closest you can come to this goal as of v0837 is if you complete the main quest (New World Order) and install low-willpower, high-affection (and optionally high-corruption) Aria as chancellor of the Third Republic.

This basically means that the new leader of Ikaanos is both figuratively and literally your bitch.

Have fun! ;)

Other game endings are currently WIP
 
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bolondro2

Active Member
Oct 12, 2018
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BTW, sometimes the "secretive" trait can be a real pain in the ass. In my current run, both Trulls and Cassius are secretive. You can not extract any secret from this two beasts, at least not without red hot irons (and the game don´t allow it) and this have screwed my usual combat line up royally. I would have to wait till have access to Palace and buy a couple of whipping pills,

Till them, they are working at the workshops. Well, that will give the good old Doyle a second wind...
Yeah, that is the primary problem with Secretive. I have not encountered that problem since I have not started a new account but a lot of new accounts run into that particular problem. There are workarounds but it is not intuitive.
View attachment 4263166
The magic pill don´t remove the secretive. And then I thought in using the Mindmancer, that lowers the willpower by 70, letting the task of extracting the secret as something manageable. But there are a problem, Mindmancer convert his brain in melted cheese, and I need to train them in medicine in order to use the combat stims.

There are the chance of using Mindmancer in the other, ordinary guys. But at 6000 of influence per dose, it would be a big delay in getting this couple in my combat team
 

Bonercat

Newbie
Apr 14, 2021
67
12
18
Any way i can become emperor of Ikaanos
so far we can only be kingmaker or queenmaker, hopefully dev can implemented it someday or maybe through modding.

or if you mean to ask how to overthrown the current regime and become the shadow government or queenmaker then search aria quest line, since i dont take her so i dont know what else to do.
 
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khumak

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The magic pill don´t remove the secretive. And then I thought in using the Mindmancer, that lowers the willpower by 70, letting the task of extracting the secret as something manageable. But there are a problem, Mindmancer convert his brain in melted cheese, and I need to train them in medicine in order to use the combat stims.

There are the chance of using Mindmancer in the other, ordinary guys. But at 6000 of influence per dose, it would be a big delay in getting this couple in my combat team
Just let them sit until you capture someone who has lowish willpower and is secretive and interrogate that person instead. Once you have all the secrets, all secretive traits on anyone left will be removed.
 
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bolondro2

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Oct 12, 2018
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Just let them sit until you capture someone who has lowish willpower and is secretive and interrogate that person instead. Once you have all the secrets, all secretive traits on anyone left will be removed.
Yes. that´s being my strategy. I´m waiting for the 6th (doable) secret. But the problem it´s that while they wait, both are missing a lot of easy combats to boost his melee.
 

bolondro2

Active Member
Oct 12, 2018
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Just let them sit until you capture someone who has lowish willpower and is secretive and interrogate that person instead. Once you have all the secrets, all secretive traits on anyone left will be removed.
Well, yes and no!!!

Yes, the secretive trait have been removed. But all the characters that had the secretive trait keep losing 3 points of afection per day, non stop and being with anger 6!!

It´s curious, because in the last game, that will not happen. But in this one, yes, it happens. Not only with Casius and Trull, but with all the former slaves that had the secretive trait. If you see the love of Cassius high, it´s because I have removed the conviction and made or him a freeman early in the morning.

With any other character, I would not care a lot. But Cassius it´s crippling. It´s, by far, the best Main tank of the game.

If anyone can have a look at the save, would be much appreciate
 

Sarius_1

Newbie
Nov 4, 2017
20
32
53
Well, yes and no!!!

Yes, the secretive trait have been removed. But all the characters that had the secretive trait keep losing 3 points of afection per day, non stop and being with anger 6!!

It´s curious, because in the last game, that will not happen. But in this one, yes, it happens. Not only with Casius and Trull, but with all the former slaves that had the secretive trait. If you see the love of Cassius high, it´s because I have removed the conviction and made or him a freeman early in the morning.

With any other character, I would not care a lot. But Cassius it´s crippling. It´s, by far, the best Main tank of the game.

If anyone can have a look at the save, would be much appreciate
I checked out your save (loaded into it) and a bit of the game code about the secretive trait and the game seems to be a bit buggy. Cassius and at least 1 other NPC of yours seem to have the secretive trait at 200. But somehow it doesn't show up on the traits of the NPC when viewing it via the Stats & Traits tab. But you can initiate an interrogation and see there, that their secrecy shows as 200/100.
Digging in the code led me to this conclusion:
while the variable
$quest_interro
is 7 (when your last interrogation led you to the girl) the secretive trait of NPCs is not set from 200 (it initialises at 200 when an NPC rolls the trait) to 100 when interacting with them and no new NPC spawns with the secretive trait. Also somehow it makes the secretive trait not show up in the NPCs traits.
But it does not remove the secretive Trait from NPCs that already have it. So if you now were to interrogate an NPC that still has the secretive trait you do increase the $quest_interro variable by 1, it shows no text on what secret you revealed, as i guess this was not meant to be a reacheble scenario. So now all your other NPCs with the secretive trait do show it again and new NPCs can spawn with it again.

Below

<<if _npc.traitsecret is 200 and $quest_interro isnot 7>>
<<set _genevent to 2>> /* generic but different variable for each event */

<<set _npc.traitsecret to 100>>
<</if>>

in the code i would input

<<if _npc.traitsecret gte 1 and $quest_interro gte 7>>
<<set _npc.traitsecret to 0>>
<</if>>

and it should remove the secretive trait from your NPCs that currently still have it when interacting with them.
I just did so and loaded your save and interactet with Cassius, Truuls, and Gerry, Pavel and Andar (three Random NPCs on page 2 in your Household) and another Venomous NPC in your Household, so now they should no longer be secretive. If i didn't miss any you should be fine and can use the attached save without any random slaves spawning with the secretive trait, but those that are scripted to spawn with it will still do so (Aaron Kreuger is one i know to always spawn secretive), so you would still have to cheat it away (either via concole command or my suggested code edit) or interrogate them to get rid of their secretive trait.
 

GD-studios

The Budman
Game Developer
Nov 20, 2021
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Well, yes and no!!!

Yes, the secretive trait have been removed. But all the characters that had the secretive trait keep losing 3 points of afection per day, non stop and being with anger 6!!

It´s curious, because in the last game, that will not happen. But in this one, yes, it happens. Not only with Casius and Trull, but with all the former slaves that had the secretive trait. If you see the love of Cassius high, it´s because I have removed the conviction and made or him a freeman early in the morning.

With any other character, I would not care a lot. But Cassius it´s crippling. It´s, by far, the best Main tank of the game.

If anyone can have a look at the save, would be much appreciate
I've cleared several bugs related to the Secretive trait in 0838, including the one you're experiencing. Sarius_1's fix above does the trick for now though.
 

Crimson Fire

Member
Mar 12, 2022
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So an update...

So far I have been able to do multiple interactions with the characters. Ansel Motte's Tutorial Quests works using my method and depending how much you are willing to tweak Dialogue you can change not only the name but most of the pronouns for the interactions with the characters. This is because of how the game using names and girlids to trigger dialogue and organize the code. I used the Find and Replace method changing the name but I also read and edited the dialogue when there was dialogue associated with the characters. Ansel Motte and Bud are two characters with a lot of dialogue i changed Ansel to Angel and Bud to Bree changed Budmeister to Breemeister. Depending on your willingness to tweak out pronouns and cock references to pussy instead. You can make the narration and Dialogue into female gender as well. There is no easy tweak here you have to be willing to actually make the effort.

So far i have been able to recruit most of the map characters and I haven't run into any issue when I change their names completely. It has work so far but this is a big game so I haven't been able to test every Male quest.

The default of the game is all girlid's 299 or less are female unless Sex Apply designated them male which is why removing them (See below) from the code changes them to female. Most male NPCs that are captured in combat even special ones have a girlid of 300 or more. I use the official alternative picture pack for the girls. I then use the vanilla version for the males turned female. This way the two characters look similar but different enough.

I will provide people with the key Text change to /* Sex Apply */

1) Find Sex Apply in the html file. It should look like this...
Code:
<<if _npc.girlid lte 299>>
<<set _npc.sex to 0>>
<<else>>
<<set _npc.sex to 1>>
<</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid gte 23 and _npc.girlid lte 27>><<set _npc.sex to 1>><</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 19 or _npc.girlid is 21 or _npc.girlid is 29 or _npc.girlid is 30 or _npc.girlid is 31 or _npc.girlid is 33 or _npc.girlid is 34 or _npc.girlid is 37 or _npc.girlid is 38>><<set _npc.sex to 1>><</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 34>><<set _npc.body to 7>><</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 18 or _npc.girlid is 19>><<set _npc.mother to "Huskah">><</if>>


/* Aria gets her original paragon status set */
Replace it with this
Code:
<<if _npc.girlid lte 299>>
<<set _npc.sex to 0>>
<<else>>
<<set _npc.sex to 1>>
<</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 19 or _npc.girlid is 37>><<set _npc.sex to 1>><</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 34>><<set _npc.body to 7>><</if>>

<<if _npc.girlid is 18 or _npc.girlid is 19>><<set _npc.mother to "Huskah">><</if>>


/* Aria gets her original paragon status set */
So this will make all the main male characters female. It will not change the random characters you can capture and the special NPC you can capture either. But the mercenaries you can hire are changed to female.

2) You will need to add in new pics but given that each character has a unique girlid and picture folder associated with that folder. You can put any girl's pictures into the male's folder. You will get unique pictures from events that show the male version but their sex scenes will be female and with female pics of the girl you chose to overwrite the males pics with. Do not remove the unique pictures as it can cause issue if the game can't access them.

I left your son and the WIXX boy male. This is because they wont be in any sex scenes and I am unsure if it will break anything if the game tried to create a son and you've made that ID a girl. I don't know exactly how the game handles pregnancy so didn't want to mess with that.

Again this is tested somewhat without issues but given how large the game is I think it works okay based on my tweaks.

If you use replace all with the names and don't manually go to each instance and read the narrative or dialogue you WILL get the game referring to the previous male characters as male because that all has to be manually changed. Some minor characters have the same name as a recruitable NPC so you need to be careful not to change their names as well.

The default of the game is all girlid's 299 or less are female unless Sex Apply designated them male which is why removing them from the code changes them to female. Most male NPCs that are captured in combat even special ones have a girlid of 300 or more. I use the official alternative picture pack for the girls so I use the vanilla version for he males. This way the two characters look similar but different enough.

I hope this these two posts explain how and it is clear what needs to be done. If there are questions please ask.
So I was doing further dives into the code and i think I have been able to test the game enough to say there isn't an issue with making your son into a second daughter in the code or Changing the Wixx boy into a girl. Again doing so requires you to tweak dialogue and change pictures but it appears you can eliminate


<<if _npc.girlid is 19 or _npc.girlid is 37>><<set _npc.sex to 1>><</if>>

From the code (the above line of code is the modified version of the code I provided to make all but your son and the wixx boy female.

This means the only men in the game are random NPCs with a girlid of 300+

All your children will be female all the mercs will be female. i need to test with a few more births to make sure everything is working as i hope it is.

The biggest issue with this approach is the fact it is version sensitive and it requires you to make the changes with each version you play. So it isn't sustainable (IMO) if you play each new update as it is released with these tweaks but I think it can work if you do the changes every 2nd or third release.

A secondary issue is the lack of replacement pictures for the male turned female mercs. This can be somewhat solved using sandman mod pictures and original pictures. if you use sandman mod then using the original pictures for the male mercs works or if you prefer the original picture set using the sandman mod pictures instead for the mercs. but really this is a work around vs a decent solution as true dedicated pictures would be better especially true for story pictures that some mercs have. This however isn't something I would do or have the skill to do someone else would have to desire to make these extra pictures.

As I get more data on having your children all be female i will keep you informed. Right now it seems to work but one data point isn't enough for me to say yes this works.
 
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