Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-06-18] [Melissa N.]

[Jackjons]

I suspect it will take time for APC to settle. More content and likely more mods will limit the "update" spam. That said, uploading to APC is much easier for amateurs like me.

As for Aphrodite's Mirror, at one point MelissaN did remark that they developed the story sometime before they were able to bring it to fruition. Also, that it would be some 30+ chapters. There have been very short chapters and currently, very long chapters so difficult to judge the completion time.

There is no comparison between F95 & APC .F95 is a old and massive forum from long time, it even exist when 8muss is still working, so if anyone compair F95 and APC , that doesn't makes any sense!
APC is just few months old , ....for my point of view, for a few months old forum site , APC is growing good !

And yes , there is few replies, ... Because there is very few people want to discussion about the story!

So , ...do not compare with F95 and APC .


I also upload on APC , it is easier to upload there then this site.
And Both are doing well ,in my opinion, it is upto you , where you like to stay , some may like here , some may like there .

 

[antiumbra]

Mirror tease. "Last thirty pages of the current chapter". (discord).

Spoiler: Mirror tease

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[Elaine.]

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Chapter 21 part 9 last 30 pages sees Elena apparantly coming to terms with her situation

 

[misseva88]

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[Tjssss]

Blimey, talk about an exposition dump. That's really bad storytelling.

 

[Thalantyr]

Blimey, talk about an exposition dump. That's really bad storytelling.

Yeah... this part was cringe-inducing.
I have to assume this was a direct response to people complaining about not being able to follow the plot, but damn was it an overcorrection. This should have been done in a non-canon omake type of thing. "The Story Thus Far..." or something like that.

As for analysis of the non-exposition content, I find it interesting that it's Elena waking up with these memories and not Andrew. I assumed that the memories were a big part of what kept the Andrew persona in control, but now for the first time Elena knows she's not Elena and she still can't shut it off (referring to herself as "Elena", in love with Nikos, referring to Marina as her niece).

 

[rebirth095]

"Before I try to sort this out, I think I need to recap everything I know..." lol, what?!

I have to assume this was a direct response to people complaining about not being able to follow the plot, but damn was it an overcorrection.

On Page 1186, do we think "They were most likely doing my will" is Melissa just explicitly trying to spell the story out to us? I find it funny Elena is saying it's the "only possible explanation". I guess Melissa wasn't a fan of our theories (not that she reads anything here) .

I find it interesting that it's Elena waking up with these memories and not Andrew. I assumed that the memories were a big part of what kept the Andrew persona in control, but now for the first time Elena knows she's not Elena and she still can't shut it off (referring to herself as "Elena", in love with Nikos, referring to Marina as her niece).

It's kinda weird though? Andrew was the one being reminded by "Aphrodite" of these events. Maybe I'm reading too much into symbolism that wasn't there, but Andrew is the one being femininzed in the dream state. And when Andrew suddenly awoke after the timeskip, he still seemed to be channeling a lot of the Elena traits (attraction to Nikos, limited English fluency).

So rather than it being like split personalities, based on the exposition dump, I think we're supposed to read it as Andrew was getting progressively more "behavior locked". And we're now at the point that with/without the memories, Andrew behaves as Elena. But what's changed is the amount of info Andrew/Elena knew. So rather than two entities, it's one entity that does/doesn't have info.

So we have original Andrew: He's aware of the feminization and is progressively getting more in character to sell the character due to safety concerns.

We have a traumatic event. Now we have "Elena". Elena behaves perfectly in character but the trauma has wiped memories of ever NOT being Elena, so Elena acts perfectly in character.

Elena/Andrew remembers events up to a certain point. Specifically, remembers some but not ALL of the feminzation. Still behavior locked, but at this point, "Elena" is behaving more like "Andrew" in terms of relationships with people and skills he wouldn't be familiar with (for instance, not being comfortable in even taller heels). Which sort of makes sense. The Elena behavior makes him enjoy sex with Nikos, unable to speak English, etc. But "Andrew" is of course extremely wary, nervous and confused because of the sudden body and relationship change and is constantly thrown off. I'll note, on page 553 and 554, "Andrew" complains about how he couldn't possibly wear such high heels, but then is shown to have no problems doing so. "Andrew's" current memories convince him that he couldn't possibly wear them, but his "locked behavior" handles it without issue. Like muscle memory.

Which gets us to post-dream Elena/Andrew. Still behavior locked as Elena, but with even more memories, which removes some of the wariness and paranoia.

So the biggest takeaway for me here... is that everyone is playing along treating Elena as Elena because... Elena asked them to? So including page 542, where Elena directly brings up Andrew, and Nikos feigns ignorance...? Which... ok... They agreed to keep doing this even in private. It's one thing to sell the story. But I'm missing where that means Nikos eagerly fucks his niece's husband?

 

[Thalantyr]

So rather than it being like split personalities, based on the exposition dump, I think we're supposed to read it as Andrew was getting progressively more "behavior locked". And we're now at the point that with/without the memories, Andrew behaves as Elena. But what's changed is the amount of info Andrew/Elena knew. So rather than two entities, it's one entity that does/doesn't have info.

After rereading a bit I think you're right. I was misremembering that there was a back-and-forth between 100% Andrew and 100% Elena, probably because of all the time jumps. But it really was more of a steady progression. And it does seem like Andrew/Elena might have been slowly and steadily falling in love with Nikos because he's been a) showing her lots of affection and b) comforting her and making her feel safe when she's been scared and confused.

So the biggest takeaway for me here... is that everyone is playing along treating Elena as Elena because... Elena asked them to? So including page 542, where Elena directly brings up Andrew, and Nikos feigns ignorance...? Which... ok... They agreed to keep doing this even in private. It's one thing to sell the story. But I'm missing where that means Nikos eagerly fucks his niece's husband?

Yeah I'm still not sure what to make of Nikos' behavior, especially very early on when he keeps kissing her despite the fact that Andrew had clearly not asked him to do that at that point in the story.

I'm also wondering if Joanna is just a red herring. Maybe she just gave Elena a Xanax because Elena said she was having trouble relaxing.

 

[Elaine.]

Do you think that Andrew now realises that he's stuck as Elena? He was told that he had been castrated as part of the surgical procedures, his breasts are not implants as such but are part of his body. He might have been married to Marina but he's unlikely to make much of a husband looking like he now does. Then there is this paranoia that Andrew is at risk and that it is better to be a live Elena rather than a dead Andrew. He also worries for Marina's safety which is why he accepts that she has a potential new husband. That said Elena/ Andrew seems to accept his role as Nikos wife readily and seems to be flattered that Nikos finds Elena attractive and sexy. What seems strange is that Nikos doesnt recognise that Elena was ever Andrew.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

It feels strange that Melissa has been so reluctant to reveal any secrets for so long, just to dump a bunch of secrets in this particular scene. Very unlike Melissa, so I just don't trust the info from this scene. I'm leaving my tin foil hat on. I think and hope that this was a misdirection from an unreliable narrator to keep the theorists away from the truth. Andrew/Elena is definitely showing signs of paranoid delusions and dissociative identity disorder. If I'm wrong, then this feels like a case of Melissa listening to too much feedback and trying to appease all fans and critics.

While the extreme method acting thing sounds good on paper, has there ever been any actual diagnosed cases? Without counting the fictional movie Tropic Thunder, I'm not aware of any real actors suffering identity issues. Just stuff like extreme weight loss, depression, etc. Another problem with the extreme method acting plot is that Andrew wasn't established as a good actor. He was a struggling actor who needed money. If I remember correctly, Andrew was going to get like $30,000 for doing this? Like 10% of the rather small $300,000 business deal. Correct me if I am wrong because I'm too lazy right now to go back and look. If his background was that he was a talented theatrical performer who was stuck in some small town in America which was holding him back from fame and fortune, that would have worked better as a foundation for the story.

If much of what Andrew/Elena thinks is true (I don't believe so), than this leaves a lot of plot holes. It might even create more once we process these new details and begin analyzing the story.

-edit-
I went back and looked. Yes, this was a hard earned $30,000.

 

[Stevedore100]

After rereading a bit I think you're right. I was misremembering that there was a back-and-forth between 100% Andrew and 100% Elena, probably because of all the time jumps. But it really was more of a steady progression. And it does seem like Andrew/Elena might have been slowly and steadily falling in love with Nikos because he's been a) showing her lots of affection and b) comforting her and making her feel safe when she's been scared and confused.


Yeah I'm still not sure what to make of Nikos' behavior, especially very early on when he keeps kissing her despite the fact that Andrew had clearly not asked him to do that at that point in the story.

I'm also wondering if Joanna is just a red herring. Maybe she just gave Elena a Xanax because Elena said she was having trouble relaxing.

I think the idea is that Andrew got himself too deep in the method acting thing to a point where he forgot himself; now he is aware of it, but finding it difficult to not act like Elena even when he us aware he is doing so - going forward he should be able to respond to Marina's hunts (although his dream never got to the "earrings" cue).

His assumption that everyone vis acting like Andrew never existed because the told them to do that does strain credulity, especially Ninos, who is going in about their previous wedding and seems exasperated (like his wife is nuts) when Elena mentions anything about being Andrew ( not to mention the whole sleeping with his niece's husband aspect).

I did not think this answers everything despite the Elena monologue here - who came up with the giant surgery package? An apparently drugged Andrew agreed to it, but who decides the list? I suppose it could just have been the doctor responding to Andres requests, but Andre seemed to have do little to do with it before; it was all the sisters.
And if Seferi and Joel are more black hatted than white, to what end? Something unrelated to Andrews change?

 

[Thalantyr]

While the extreme method acting thing sounds good on paper, has there ever been any actual diagnosed cases? Without counting the fictional movie Tropic Thunder, I'm not aware of any real actors suffering identity issues. Just stuff like extreme weight loss, depression, etc.

The worst I've heard of is method actors being difficult to work with, or acting strange and inappropriate toward their costars both on and off stage like Jared Leto during Suicide Squad.

It feels strange that Melissa has been so reluctant to reveal any secrets for so long, just to dump a bunch of secrets in this particular scene. Very unlike Melissa, so I just don't trust the info from this scene. I'm leaving my tin foil hat on.

She didn't really dump a bunch of secrets- these were all things we already know. The only new information is Elena's interpretation of the facts, which shouldn't necessarily be taken as truth since she only has an incomplete memory of events.

Another problem with the extreme method acting plot is that Andrew wasn't established as a good actor. He was a struggling actor who needed money. If I remember correctly, Andrew was going to get like $30,000 for doing this? Like 10% of the rather small $300,000 business deal. Correct me if I am wrong because I'm too lazy right now to go back and look. If his background was that he was a talented theatrical performer who was stuck in some small town in America which was holding him back from fame and fortune, that would have worked better as a foundation for the story.

Nothing has been established regarding Andrew's skill as an actor other than Andrew stating that he thinks he's good (but has a lot to learn) when asked by Nikos at the beginning. The first page simply says he's an "unknown" actor. Also I completely forgot about the money since I don't think it's ever been mentioned outside that one page. I wonder if Melissa forgot about it too. It's never been brought up as a reason why Andrew needs to continue with this charade.

I did not think this answers everything despite the Elena monologue here - who came up with the giant surgery package? An apparently drugged Andrew agreed to it, but who decides the list? I suppose it could just have been the doctor responding to Andres requests, but Andre seemed to have do little to do with it before; it was all the sisters.
And if Seferi and Joel are more black hatted than white, to what end? Something unrelated to Andrews change?

Based on available evidence it seems like the doctor suggested all the procedures that were performed and Elena agreed to them:


The doctor was working under the assumption that Elena is trans and wants to be an older Greek woman, which is what he was told by Eva and Sofia prior to the first consultation and then confirmed again by Elena on the page linked above.

 

[Stevedore100]

Based on available evidence it seems like the doctor suggested all the procedures that were performed and Elena agreed to them:
View attachment 3356631

The doctor was working under the assumption that Elena is trans and wants to be an older Greek woman, which is what he was told by Eva and Sofia prior to the first consultation and then confirmed again by Elena on the page linked above.

Yes it's the doctor who says "hey we can do all this" and Andrew is too drugged it uncomprehending to say no. Back when he talks with Marina when she returns, it's "just" some facial surgery.
Then. As Andrew recalls while listening to the doctor, they fabricated a whole trans history to fool the doctor. Who was that? The sisters? Andrew? Somehow it all spiraled quickly.

 

[Thalantyr]

Yes it's the doctor who says "hey we can do all this" and Andrew is too drugged it uncomprehending to say no. Back when he talks with Marina when she returns, it's "just" some facial surgery.
Then. As Andrew recalls while listening to the doctor, they fabricated a whole trans history to fool the doctor. Who was that? The sisters? Andrew? Somehow it all spiraled quickly.

It was the sisters who fabricated the trans story to fool the doctor. See below:


They wanted Andrew to get facial feminization surgery and they told the doctor that he was trans in order to convince the doctor to do that. Andrew knew they were going to do this and reluctantly agreed to it. This happened at the first doctor's appointment off-screen. Then at the second appointment, the doctor suggested several other procedures that they could do in addition to the facial surgery. It seems he's just enthusiastic about helping Elena become the person that she wants to be. Then, in his drugged state, Andrew agreed to the new procedures that the doctor suggested.

So as of right now, the sisters and Marina still seem to be innocent because they only intended for Andrew to get reversible facial surgery. The doctor also seems to be innocent because he made suggestions that he thought were in the best interest of the patient and received consent before carrying them out, and as far as we know he's unaware that Andrew was drugged.

 

[Stevedore100]

It was the sisters who fabricated the trans story to fool the doctor. See below:
View attachment 3356765

They wanted Andrew to get facial feminization surgery and they told the doctor that he was trans in order to convince the doctor to do that. Andrew knew they were going to do this and reluctantly agreed to it. This happened at the first doctor's appointment off-screen. Then at the second appointment, the doctor suggested several other procedures that they could do in addition to the facial surgery. It seems he's just enthusiastic about helping Elena become the person that she wants to be. Then, in his drugged state, Andrew agreed to the new procedures that the doctor suggested.

So as of right now, the sisters and Marina still seem to be innocent because they only intended for Andrew to get reversible facial surgery. The doctor also seems to be innocent because he made suggestions that he thought were in the best interest of the patient and received consent before carrying them out, and as far as we know he's unaware that Andrew was drugged.

I'm about 50/50 with you in this one- the scenario you suggest could well be the correct one. It just seemed like a big jump from something small to gigantic, but maybe they just made up a story and the doctor really ran with it. I'm still suspicious of the sisters (or one of them possibly). Marina accused one of them of avoiding her calls, and they just seem....slippery, the ones who really pushed Andrew into a lot of this. My farfetched idea is that they may be plotting something against Nikki's, though I don't know what (control if his hotel?) and that the romance btwn the one of them and Dimitra's son is important (why else introduce this rather tangential plot point?

 

[Thalantyr]

I'm about 50/50 with you in this one- the scenario you suggest could well be the correct one. It just seemed like a big jump from something small to gigantic, but maybe they just made up a story and the doctor really ran with it.

I wasn't really theorizing much here. The scenario I described is pretty much spelled out clearly in the doctor's conversation with Elena just prior to surgery. The only speculating I'm doing is ascribing presumed innocence to the girls and the doctor, though I could of course be wrong about that since there's still some information missing, like what happened in between Marina leaving the doctor's office and Andrew suddenly finding himself seated in front of the doctor without remembering how he got there. We know Joanna showed up but we haven't gotten to see much of that encounter yet.

I'm still suspicious of the sisters (or one of them possibly). Marina accused one of them of avoiding her calls, and they just seem....slippery, the ones who really pushed Andrew into a lot of this. My farfetched idea is that they may be plotting something against Nikki's, though I don't know what (control if his hotel?) and that the romance btwn the one of them and Dimitra's son is important (why else introduce this rather tangential plot point?

That could very well be. I agree that the sisters do seem overly pushy and controlling in general, and I definitely have questions about why Stefanos and Dimitra are in the story at all. And I should also note that the presumed innocence I described above only pertains to the extra surgeries that Andrew underwent, which as far as I can tell right now was entirely Andrew's own fault. But it's still possible that the sisters were plotting to turn him into a woman all along. Maybe their plan is just going better than they expected.

 

[Tjssss]

Hopefully at the end of the story Elena will stand around naked thinking about all the tricky plot holes. Perhaps with a whiteboard this time.

 

[Stevedore100]

That could very well be. I agree that the sisters do seem overly pushy and controlling in general, and I definitely have questions about why Stefanos and Dimitra are in the story at all. And I should also note that the presumed innocence I described above only pertains to the extra surgeries that Andrew underwent, which as far as I can tell right now was entirely Andrew's own fault. But it's still possible that the sisters were plotting to turn him into a woman all along. Maybe their plan is just going better than they expected.

One other point about the sisters- they are the one who vetted Seferi's story and gave Andrew sone vague "political ambition" information about Toska that bolstered his trust of Seferi and Joel. Now we have some reason to be suspicious of their motives and that of Toska being an evil mastermind. Were the sisters part of that?

And ..after thinking we were going to here the Filip gossip, we ended up empty-handed, I assume it has relevance at some point

 

[Stevedore100]

Hopefully at the end of the story Elena will stand around naked thinking about all the tricky plot holes. Perhaps with a whiteboard this time.

She will need a BIG whiteboard and an assortment of colored markers

 

[rebirth095]

Do you think that Andrew now realises that he's stuck as Elena? He was told that he had been castrated as part of the surgical procedures, his breasts are not implants as such but are part of his body. He might have been married to Marina but he's unlikely to make much of a husband looking like he now does. Then there is this paranoia that Andrew is at risk and that it is better to be a live Elena rather than a dead Andrew. He also worries for Marina's safety which is why he accepts that she has a potential new husband. That said Elena/ Andrew seems to accept his role as Nikos wife readily and seems to be flattered that Nikos finds Elena attractive and sexy. What seems strange is that Nikos doesnt recognise that Elena was ever Andrew.

Here's the thing though: In this setting, apparently medical technology is way more advanced than our current day tech. He'll never have children after being castrated, but if the setting has surgery that can be this convincing in changing Andrew to Elena, then what's to stop more surgery from restoring even part of Andrew's masculinity/true appearance? I'm not advocating for this, just seems to me like there's not really anything preventing at least some of the changes to be reversed, if Andrew wanted to.

It feels strange that Melissa has been so reluctant to reveal any secrets for so long, just to dump a bunch of secrets in this particular scene. Very unlike Melissa, so I just don't trust the info from this scene.

Maybe, but I look at it more like Melissa has (in her mind) been already addressing and answer secrets, but due to the dialogue she's chosen, the audience did not read it the way she intended. The best example to me of this is the Marina-James "relationship". At first, Melissa tried to establish that Marina did not cheat purely through Marina's dialogue. Well, that didn't work and people immediately were saying Marina was "too defensive" and that was suspicious. So then, Melissa got more explicit and had Elena flat out ask Marina if she loved James and then we get two whole flashbacks to show that nothing happened, followed by Marina re-emphasizing nothing happened. Still wasn't enough for readers. So now we have an info dump that's trying to "once and for all tell us what actually happened".

I consider this dialogue dump an act of desperation, rather than trying to utilize an unreliable narrator. Because if it were about an unreliable narrator, we wouldn't be having so many flashbacks and clarifications as to what "actually" happened. Well, IMHO.

So as of right now, the sisters and Marina still seem to be innocent because they only intended for Andrew to get reversible facial surgery. The doctor also seems to be innocent because he made suggestions that he thought were in the best interest of the patient and received consent before carrying them out, and as far as we know he's unaware that Andrew was drugged.

Especially with Elena's "Before, I thought this was some sick plot against me...", I think the intended "twist" was supposed to be that there wasn't an actual conspiracy! Or at least not one to feminize Andrew. That was all a wacky misunderstanding. Just like the twist of how Elena was "behavior locked" turned out to be "method acting gone wrong" because this story is supposed to have no conditioning/mind control.

Hopefully at the end of the story Elena will stand around naked thinking about all the tricky plot holes. Perhaps with a whiteboard this time.

Don't forget making random sexy poses, and then ending the final panel on a cliffhanger before the next page contradicts that cliffhanger with something super mundane.

Now we have some reason to be suspicious of their motives and that of Toska being an evil mastermind. Were the sisters part of that?

With the recent info dump, it makes "reading into" character motivations extra hard. In a story where characters behave like "real" people, then doing something outrageous (like helping feminize your cousin's fiance into your mother) would require some motivations and nefarious intent. But apparently, Elena (and I'm assuming Melissa) seems to think that it's reasonable for those two to be 100% on board with treating Andrew as Elena just because Andrew asked them to. And I'd be willing to bet, Melissa thinks this is reasonable because way back at page 170, we're told that apparently keeping promises/loyalty is something Marina (and presumably this family) takes so seriously that she/they'd rather Andrew ruin a honeymoon over a promise he drunkenly made, rather than break a promise that wouldn't have been that hard to get out of.

I've made fun of this before, but it's effectively happened in both these ongoing stories now: in Kpop, a woman is told that the guy they just met not only wants to transition to a woman, but change races as well. And there's no pushback. It's just, "Oh, that's so quirky!". So here, it seems entirely possible the sisters aren't scheming/part of scheme. They just went with the flow.