Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-06-13] [Melissa N.]

[Tjssss]

I'm joyously taking the piss out of the shitty parts of Melissa's storytelling, but I have to emphasise that there's something I don't quite internally get that I really love about her works.

Let's not forget this is her first full on... I dunno, comic. Parts of it I've found really hot. It's bound to be kinda shitty.

This being a pirate forum, I obviously feel bad for people paying for the content.

 

[Stevedore100]

I'm joyously taking the piss out of the shitty parts of Melissa's storytelling, but I have to emphasise that there's something I don't quite internally get that I really love about her works.

Let's not forget this is her first full on... I dunno, comic. Parts of it I've found really hot. It's bound to be kinda shitty.

This being a pirate forum, I obviously feel bad for people paying for the content.

I subscribe., and I probably wouldn't it it was just the shorter works, which to me seem too cookie cutter plotwise - that's not a criticism of just Melissa, but several similar artists.
This story is ripe for criticism, but at least it makes me interested in thinking about so I can be critical it, which the shorter stories rarely make me do.

 

[rebirth095]

I'm joyously taking the piss out of the shitty parts of Melissa's storytelling, but I have to emphasise that there's something I don't quite internally get that I really love about her works.

Let's not forget this is her first full on... I dunno, comic. Parts of it I've found really hot. It's bound to be kinda shitty.

This being a pirate forum, I obviously feel bad for people paying for the content.

I think there are writing tendencies Melissa has that haven't translated across formats.

1) Melissa doesn't "trust" the art to convey the emotion or actions, and thus there's a lot of redundant internal dialogue. "Even asleep he keeps playing with my boobs..." Like... that's literally on screen. We didn't need to be told that. "My husband is insatiable" along with the literal image of the man groping your breasts while asleep was already plenty, lol.

2) A lot of what would normally be written by the narrator, is now stated by characters as dialogue or as part of inner thoughts. The thing is, people don't converse this way, nor react with so much internal thoughts. So a lot of the text sounds, more like exposition than dialogue. So there ends up being a lot of "telling" rather than showing. Like in this chapter, Elena didn't need to be thinking "It feels like someone is touching my breasts". If instead, she suddenly grabbed her own breasts, while visibly showing discomfort/arousal, and then she awakes and we as readers see her breasts being groped, that is more than enough to tell us what was happening.

The thing that drew me to MelissaN stories initially was that I liked her incremental feminizations. I liked that there were different stages, and generally there were clear signs of how the feminization was progressing.

I found Job for a Milf to be hot. Especially Part 1. Everything from clothing, body, mannerisms, and identity were step by step being feminized. Also, I liked the age regression on Christine. Probably my biggest disappointment was that this part of the plot was underdeveloped and didn't really do much in Part 2.

Need for Speed was also really enjoyable. The race change reminded me of the OTTII stories, and like before, I enjoyed the progression and the clear changes both physically and mentally.

In general, I also enjoy the shorter sequences, mainly in terms of the sequence of the renders. I'll note that those sequences was the time when I really started noticing how exposition heavy Melissa treated the comics.

But once we started getting some of the later longer stories, like Tug of War, High Heeled Journey to the Unknown, and Not So Temporary Roommate, the flaws in the character writing started getting more and more apparent. Partially because these later stories had progressively flimsier feminization motivations, and in tandem, more wooden characters.

I bought the stories that came out on lulu, but I think I'd get pretty frustrated as a Patreon supporter. The pacing is pretty all over the place and it's at the point where if I wasn't reading it for free, I'd just step away, and put it in the "come back after a year and see if it's done" pile.

 

[Thalantyr]

This being a pirate forum, I obviously feel bad for people paying for the content.

I bought the stories that came out on lulu, but I think I'd get pretty frustrated as a Patreon supporter.

I don't disagree with any of the criticism, but I would humbly suggest that we not harp on the specific train of thought in the above quotes too much lest we discourage the people who are paying and posting here from doing so. I can say that I personally have been similarly discouraged in the past and stopped posting stuff that only attracted negative comments and no gratitude. I for one am grateful for what gets posted here (thanks especially to Stevedore100 and Marschall1 who have each posted several updates and misseva88 for maintaining this thread). I'm still enjoying the comic despite its flaws, but even more than that I'm enjoying the discussion it generates, which seems to be a fairly unique feature of this comic that I don't encounter too often. The discussion is enough to get me through even the terribly-written boring bits like this most recent update.

 

[Elaine.]

Here's the thing though: In this setting, apparently medical technology is way more advanced than our current day tech. He'll never have children after being castrated, but if the setting has surgery that can be this convincing in changing Andrew to Elena, then what's to stop more surgery from restoring even part of Andrew's masculinity/true appearance? I'm not advocating for this, just seems to me like there's not really anything preventing at least some of the changes to be reversed, if Andrew wanted to.

Yes that makes sense. We never did find out who paid for the original surgery Andrew went through and would the money he earnt be enough to undo everything?

 

[Elaine.]

Woah Chapter 22 part 1 just released now

 

[antiumbra]

There is a discord server for Melissa N. Appears to be open to all as the link was posted on kemono.

You must be registered to see the links

Spoiler: chapter 22 title page

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[rebirth095]

The discussion is enough to get me through even the terribly-written boring bits like this most recent update.

Fair and true; I don't mean to sound ungrateful towards the people who DO spend the money and post updates. That's of course appreciated. And the camaraderie of having a laugh when it does get bad makes the bad more bearable, lol.

Yes that makes sense. We never did find out who paid for the original surgery Andrew went through and would the money he earnt be enough to undo everything?

Is the original surgery not being paid for by Nikos? After all, it sounds like the sisters set it up, and the "twist" was that the Doctor took it too far? After this all plays out, I'd think that unless Nikos is actually the bad guy, he should be able to afford additional surgery if Andrew wishes to it.

Going through that scene again reminded me of another question: Did we ever get an explanation of why Andrew blanked out and vision blurred during the discussion with the Doctor? I was pretty confident with my explanation of it not being a distinct Elena and Andrew but rather behavior getting "locked" into place... but this is a blackout that preceded the BIG blackout.

Maybe we've (or I've) gotten it wrong, and it's not Elena and Andrew being two different personalities. Andrew is becoming the Elena personality, and the actual split "Aphrodite" personality has stepped in to feminize the Andrew personality into being Elena?

Or I suppose the other way of looking at it is there actually is an Elena personality, but we've never actually seen her on screen. It's always been Andrew, and we've just seen stages of the Andrew personality becoming more feminized into being like Elena.

I'll say, the second one doesn't make sense to me because some of the actions of this "Elena personality" would seem to be way too early in the story. If I list the major moments where I think another personality might have taken over:

- Before the story, and did something that caused a fight between Andrew and Marina.
- During the meeting with the Doctor.
- After the surgery.

That first one would have preceded Andrew even knowing about Elena. Now, to counterpoint myself, I suppose you could argue that the Elena personality (or rather, middle aged Greek woman) manifested maybe as early as him meeting Marina. I guess that could make sense, although that starts to be on the "too many coincidences" side of things for me.

The flip side is the first idea, that there's been a female personality that has taken over a few times to "nudge" Andrew into becoming Elena, would fit with these events and explain who "Aphrodite" is... I can accept that easier than it being literally an Elena personality, but it's still kinda hard for me to swallow.

In summary, I think we'd settled on (and straight up confirmed) method acting for explaining Andrew's femininization and "integration" of becoming Elena. We'd assumed he'd gotten lost in roles before in the past, and that's what caused the argument with Marina. But we've also had another instance of him blacking out...

To be frank, I dunno. I think this theory of mine might violate Melissa saying that there's no "mind control or hypnosis" since I'm basically arguing that there's another personality that's conditioning Andrew. Yes, Andrew was at some point method acting, but the fact he can't break it once consciously aware of what's going on is a bit weird.

I have to say, with a bit of work-shopping, I'd love that story: There's a female split personality the reader doesn't know about and a real world excuse for the main character to be feminized, so the personality starts taking over at times. The main character starts noticing it's harder and harder to stop acting feminine because unknown to him, the female side has been conditioning him. That said, while I'd keep the mystery/horror element of the main character getting more and more paranoid as to why he's becoming female, the main thing I'd change is not trying to write it as if it wasn't a form of hypnosis/mind-control/conditioning and straight up embrace it being that, rather than also having a method acting explanation. I'd also have had the story not be with people immediately familiar with the main character. That way, we're not meant to have any reason to trust or not trust these strangers. And as the story progresses, he gets more and more concerned because he can't figure out who's feminizing him, with the twist being that it's been his split personality.

 

[Thalantyr]

Going through that scene again reminded me of another question: Did we ever get an explanation of why Andrew blanked out and vision blurred during the discussion with the Doctor? I was pretty confident with my explanation of it not being a distinct Elena and Andrew but rather behavior getting "locked" into place... but this is a blackout that preceded the BIG blackout.

No concrete explanation, but we do know that Joanna showed up at the clinic just after Marina left and commented that Elena's tea looked tasty...

Or I suppose the other way of looking at it is there actually is an Elena personality, but we've never actually seen her on screen. It's always been Andrew, and we've just seen stages of the Andrew personality becoming more feminized into being like Elena.

I'll say, the second one doesn't make sense to me because some of the actions of this "Elena personality" would seem to be way too early in the story. If I list the major moments where I think another personality might have taken over:

- Before the story, and did something that caused a fight between Andrew and Marina.
- During the meeting with the Doctor.
- After the surgery.

There are two more possibilities:
- The night Andrew and Marina arrived they got drunk with Nikos, Eva, and Sofia. The next morning Andrew arrives at the salon complaining about a hangover. If Elena made an appearance that night after dinner, it might explain all the kissing from Nikos that occurred over the next few days.
- The night after the Toska meeting when Andrew is drugged(?) by Joanna and/or gets drunk again. Following the meeting, Nikos kisses him again, and then we immediately cut to the next morning where Andrew wakes up in Nikos' bed wearing a nightgown without any memory of how he got there. Nikos explains that Andrew fell asleep and the sisters thought it would be a good idea for some reason to bring him to the house and dress him in a nightgown. Sounds like a pretty flimsy story to me. Perhaps Nikos is lying to Marina to cover for an affair he just started with Elena?

The blackouts being the periods where Elena takes over was my main theory up until you pointed out the gradual changes in personality. Also the hospital flashbacks having Andrew distinctly in control sort of contradicts that theory too, unless Melissa is making a distinction that Elena only comes out during blackouts caused by drink/drugs, and not the trauma-induced memory loss that is apparently coming up after Andrew leaves the hospital. But that seems pretty convoluted now.

 

[Stevedore100]

Since this discussion is going really well, and Melissa is quick with the new one, here it is, chapter 22, part 1. Joel and Seferi! A gun!
Some interesting bits and pieces as usual. Enough to spark more guessing!

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Stevedore100]

No concrete explanation, but we do know that Joanna showed up at the clinic just after Marina left and commented that Elena's tea looked tasty...


There are two more possibilities:
- The night Andrew and Marina arrived they got drunk with Nikos, Eva, and Sofia. The next morning Andrew arrives at the salon complaining about a hangover. If Elena made an appearance that night after dinner, it might explain all the kissing from Nikos that occurred over the next few days.
- The night after the Toska meeting when Andrew is drugged(?) by Joanna and/or gets drunk again. Following the meeting, Nikos kisses him again, and then we immediately cut to the next morning where Andrew wakes up in Nikos' bed wearing a nightgown without any memory of how he got there. Nikos explains that Andrew fell asleep and the sisters thought it would be a good idea for some reason to bring him to the house and dress him in a nightgown. Sounds like a pretty flimsy story to me. Perhaps Nikos is lying to Marina to cover for an affair he just started with Elena?

The blackouts being the periods where Elena takes over was my main theory up until you pointed out the gradual changes in personality. Also the hospital flashbacks having Andrew distinctly in control sort of contradicts that theory too, unless Melissa is making a distinction that Elena only comes out during blackouts caused by drink/drugs, and not the trauma-induced memory loss that is apparently coming up after Andrew leaves the hospital. But that seems pretty convoluted now.

I'm partial to there being a 2 simultaneous things going on. Andrew is delving deeper and deeper into his Elena character because he thinks he has to die safety reasons, and Joanna, for still unknown reasons, is drugging him at opportune times that spiral him farther from himself, mind if an accelerant. I look at the part where Elena meets Dimitri and Joanna - before and during the meeting, Elena is all bothered by the deception Joanna is putting on. By the time Elena comes home, she is perfectly serene and I bothered and ready to bop with Nikos. Joanna is a million miles from her mind.

 

[Thalantyr]

Joel and Seferi!

Sefari, apparently, in this one.
Pretty melodramatic, but it's exciting to have some villains finally! Or at least I'm assuming so. Maybe their over-the-top soap opera evil is just misdirection, who knows!

The glasses thing... that's either bad writing where the characters know something they shouldn't know, or it potentially implicates Nikos being involved in the scheme. Nikos supposedly improvised knocking Joel's glasses off during the meeting with Toska so he wouldn't get a good look at Elena's face, but there's no reason why Joel should know that unless Nikos told him. Either that or they're talking about something completely unrelated that the audience isn't privy to.

 

[rebirth095]

There are two more possibilities:
- The night Andrew and Marina arrived they got drunk with Nikos, Eva, and Sofia. The next morning Andrew arrives at the salon complaining about a hangover. If Elena made an appearance that night after dinner, it might explain all the kissing from Nikos that occurred over the next few days.
- The night after the Toska meeting when Andrew is drugged(?) by Joanna and/or gets drunk again. Following the meeting, Nikos kisses him again, and then we immediately cut to the next morning where Andrew wakes up in Nikos' bed wearing a nightgown without any memory of how he got there. Nikos explains that Andrew fell asleep and the sisters thought it would be a good idea for some reason to bring him to the house and dress him in a nightgown. Sounds like a pretty flimsy story to me. Perhaps Nikos is lying to Marina to cover for an affair he just started with Elena?

That's quite interesting, as it would give a reason why Nikos thinks Andrew might be into him. Not sure I buy that though, as it seems like that would be Nikos into Andrew before "seeing the goods". But, maybe Nikos is into that? I'm also still thrown off by the idea that Nikos is this aggressive pursuing his niece's husband. I'm not quite happy with the idea of the first one being where Elena propositions Nikos, but at the same time, without that, Nikos just comes off even more creepy... so I'm not sure what to make of it, lol!

The blackouts being the periods where Elena takes over was my main theory up until you pointed out the gradual changes in personality. Also the hospital flashbacks having Andrew distinctly in control sort of contradicts that theory too, unless Melissa is making a distinction that Elena only comes out during blackouts caused by drink/drugs, and not the trauma-induced memory loss that is apparently coming up after Andrew leaves the hospital. But that seems pretty convoluted now.

Or... the personality only comes out to force Andrew down paths he wouldn't take.

Let's see what that looks lie. In this proposed theory:

Andrew has a split female personality. We'll call her Aphrodite. Months before, when Andrew was in an inebriated state, Aphrodite took over and got Andrew into a situation that caused him and Marina to fight. This was resolved and they're still together.

Andrew agrees to pretend to be Elena. If Aphrodite did pop out, maybe she just acts like Andrew is really excited by this idea, and gives Nikos the idea that Andrew is extremely committed.

During the dinner and after getting calmed down by both the drugs, alcohol, and will, Andrew commits to the Elena role by method acting as best he can as Elena. He accidentally promises to being Elena for an extended amount of time and passes out.

Aphrodite might have taken over here. Maybe she seduces Nikos and makes Nikos promise to lie to Marina (and Andrew in the morning) that nothing happened when something did happen.

Andrew goes to get surgery. He's still method acting and adopting more mannerisms that Elena would have. He's drugged again and during the weakened mental state, Aphrodite pops out to agree to more drastic surgery to further entrap Andrew.

Aphrodite takes over and goes through the surgery. Andrew wakes up (now too late to stop it) and a bunch of info occurs. He continues to method act and gets more and more practice as Elena. There might be points here where Aphrodite manifests and continues pushing the limits of the feminization. Something traumatic occurs (maybe even related to how hard Aphrodite is pushing), and "Elena" loses her memories. At this point, a lot of the behavior and muscle memory is ingrained, so even without the memories, Andrew is behaving like Elena. Once the memories do come back, Andrew is still behaving like Elena, because that's just where he is now. Meanwhile, Aphrodite is still lurking and could manifest at any time.

Since this discussion is going really well, and Melissa is quick with the new one, here it is, chapter 22, part 1. Joel and Seferi! A gun!

Um... this got a bit weird, right?

Spoiler: Spoilers for Chapter 22 Part 1

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[Thalantyr]

I dunno, I can't wrap my head around this. As far as I can tell, these two have a plan that require Elena to be scared and devoted to Nikos. And it seems, the actual feminization has nothing to do with their plot.

The story that Seferi told Elena was all about Toska destroying his life because he found out he was gay. So if Seferi is intentionally trying to scare Elena, that implies that he thinks that she and/or Nikos is keeping some sort of gay-adjacent secret from Toska. Now that we know he doesn't need glasses, perhaps Joel noticed that Elena was male at that first dinner and he assumes that Nikos is married to a trans woman and that's when he and Seferi concocted whatever plan they have.

 

[rebirth095]

The story that Seferi tells Elena was all about Toska destroying his life because he found out he was gay. So if Seferi is intentionally trying to scare Elena, that implies that he thinks that she and/or Nikos are keeping some sort of gay-adjacent secret from Toska. Now that we know he doesn't need glasses, perhaps Joel noticed that Elena was male at that first dinner and he assumes that Nikos is married to a trans woman and that's when he and Seferi concocted whatever plan they have.

That makes sense. So I think we can somewhat safely say that they have no idea Andrew "exists", but rather they know/suspect that Elena is a transwoman, and their plan is revolving around threatening Elena to get to Nikos, or maybe have that in their back pocket to use one day? So they don't care one way or another how feminized Elena gets. That does help at least isolate some motivations.

Like you said earlier though, this means that the whole glasses thing is confusing. Joel talks as if he went out of his way to wear glasses just for the sake of that meeting, which would imply he knew before hand that Elena wasn't perfectly passable. And thus, if he wasn't conspiring with Nikos, this means he heard that Nikos was married to a transwoman who was still transitioning, purposefully wore glasses to give Nikos an out so that they could keep the charade up.

But, the flip side actually makes even less sense. If Nikos was conspiring with Joel, it would have been far, far easier for Joel to just not attend that dinner, rather than this weird performance for Elena.

 

[Thalantyr]

That makes sense. So I think we can somewhat safely say that they have no idea Andrew "exists", but rather they know/suspect that Elena is a transwoman, and their plan is revolving around threatening Elena to get to Nikos, or maybe have that in their back pocket to use one day? So they don't care one way or another how feminized Elena gets. That does help at least isolate some motivations.

They do know that Andrew exists for sure. At the hospital Seferi showed Elena a photo of Andrew Woods and identified him by name. But that doesn't necessarily negate your theory. This was almost certainly another scare tactic, but perhaps the threat isn't "Toska might find out that you're Andrew Woods" but rather "Toska might find out that you used to be Andrew Woods", i.e., "Toska might find out that you're trans". Maybe Seferi looked into Elena's background after Joel discovered that she's trans and they somehow connected her to Andrew.

Like you said earlier though, this means that the whole glasses thing is confusing. Joel talks as if he went out of his way to wear glasses just for the sake of that meeting, which would imply he knew before hand that Elena wasn't perfectly passable. And thus, if he wasn't conspiring with Nikos, this means he heard that Nikos was married to a transwoman who was still transitioning, purposefully wore glasses to give Nikos an out so that they could keep the charade up.

It's possible that Joel was wearing a disguise for other reasons and not necessarily to feign nearsightedness just for Nikos' and Elena's sake. In fact when the glasses broke, Toska commented that he has "always told him that glasses are foolishness," which implies that Joel always wears glasses in front of Toska.

 

[rebirth095]

They do know that Andrew exists for sure. At the hospital Seferi showed Elena a photo of Andrew Woods and identified him by name. But that doesn't necessarily negate your theory. This was almost certainly another scare tactic, but perhaps the threat isn't "Toska might find out that you're Andrew Woods" but rather "Toska might find out that you used to be Andrew Woods", i.e., "Toska might find out that you're trans". Maybe Seferi looked into Elena's background after Joel discovered that she's trans and they somehow connected her to Andrew.

It's possible that Joel was wearing a disguise for other reasons and not necessarily to feign nearsightedness just for Nikos' and Elena's sake. In fact when the glasses broke, Toska commented that he has "always told him that glasses are foolishness," which implies that Joel always wears glasses in front of Toska.

Oh right, I completely forgot that Seferi showed that photograph. Hmm... I'm weirdly torn about whether that means Seferi knows Elena's prior identity was Andrew. On the one hand, that's a hell of a coincidence to show that photo of Andrew to Andrew. But on the other hand, some of the dialogue from the most recent chapter makes it sound like they're missing part of the story. Maybe it's just my reading of it, but it makes it sound like they believe Elena is an ordinary transwoman, not that Nikos convinced his niece's husband to crossdress and impersonate his wife.

This might be what you're saying, but splitting the difference: they believe Andrew is a transwoman that's married Nikos, but they have no idea Andrew was Marina's husband that (at least originally) isn't in love with Nikos?

Good point about Joel always wearing glasses with Toska. I guess then that Joel didn't plan this ahead with Nikos, and Seferi is just commenting that the glasses luckily gave Nikos an out so that they continued the charade, while Joel "fortunately" found out what he thought was their secret.

Are we basically just doing the movie Birdcage? Is that what's happening here?

 

[Stevedore100]

The glasses!
I think it's more complicated (of course). Toska blabbers about Joel needing glasses and how, he, Risks, never uses such silly devices. So Joel is fooling Toska about his vision. Is Nikos in on it, or did he just do the smart thing and not realize Joel didn't need them. Does this mean Joel saw through Andrew's early disguise? Joel was the one who got Andrew to drink and we know what happens then.

Marina!
Joel starts to say something about Elena almost forcing Marina to....? (Acknowledge Andrew?). Is Marina in cahoots with these guys?
I don't really get if Seferi and Joel know Elena is Andrew - Sensei constantly refers to her as Mrs Samaras, but all his talk about living a fake life...does he think Elena is actually a woman that Nikos got to fool Toska?
And what is this about Joel soon to assume a fake life!
Questions!!

 

[Stevedore100]

Oh right, I completely forgot that Seferi showed that photograph. Hmm... I'm weirdly torn about whether that means Seferi knows Elena's prior identity was Andrew. On the one hand, that's a hell of a coincidence to show that photo of Andrew to Andrew. But on the other hand, some of the dialogue from the most recent chapter makes it sound like they're missing part of the story. Maybe it's just my reading of it, but it makes it sound like they believe Elena is an ordinary transwoman, not that Nikos convinced his niece's husband to crossdress and impersonate his wife.

This might be what you're saying, but splitting the difference: they believe Andrew is a transwoman that's married Nikos, but they have no idea Andrew was Marina's husband that (at least originally) isn't in love with Nikos?

Good point about Joel always wearing glasses with Toska. I guess then that Joel didn't plan this ahead with Nikos, and Seferi is just commenting that the glasses luckily gave Nikos an out so that they continued the charade, while Joel "fortunately" found out what he thought was their secret.

Are we basically just doing the movie Birdcage? Is that what's happening here?

Yes, Seferi has always had dialogue where it seems he does not know Andrew is Elena. That continues here. Which you would think means Joel is in the dark as well.

And it seems like they may well believe that Elena is a stand in for Nikos' nin existebt wife, but just assume she is some random female -Seferi seemed to but into the car accident coverup story, so he may be clueless about the surgeries.

 

[Thalantyr]

This might be what you're saying, but splitting the difference: they believe Andrew is a transwoman that's married Nikos, but they have no idea Andrew was Marina's husband that (at least originally) isn't in love with Nikos?

Hmm... well, no... they also know that Andrew is/was married to Marina:


Yeah that muddies things. I've already talked myself out of my own theory.
But then again they're also acting confused as though they now think that James might be Marina's husband.

Good point about Joel always wearing glasses with Toska. I guess then that Joel didn't plan this ahead with Nikos, and Seferi is just commenting that the glasses luckily gave Nikos an out so that they continued the charade, while Joel "fortunately" found out what he thought was their secret.

Or Toska is also working for Seferi. But that would leave us with no motivation whatsoever for Seferi and Joel (which currently seems to be getting revenge on Toska).

Are we basically just doing the movie Birdcage? Is that what's happening here?

Oh man, does that mean we're going to get a flashy dance number at the end?

We are family
I got all my sisters with me
We are family
Get up everybody and sing!

Starring Robin Williams as Nikos, Nathan Lane as Andrew, and Gene Hackman as Toska.

Joel was the one who got Andrew to drink and we know what happens then.

Oh right! I completely forgot that it was Joel pushing Elena to drink more. The fact that Joel is evil (or at least duplicitous) puts that in a whole new light. No idea what that means though. I wonder if Joel knows about Andrew's past and whatever conflict that Andrew and Marina had a few months ago.

And what is this about Joel soon to assume a fake life!

This being a feminization story, it kinda sounds like Seferi intends to feminize Joel next... but I suspect that this is intentional misdirection from Melissa.